What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

eightieschewbaccy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083034#Comment_122083034

We haven't been provided with much in the vein of proof that the dog was dangerous. The story amounts to a woman thinking that shooting her dog proves that she's salt of the earth and it might help her with the maga demographic. Instead it comes across as a terrible human.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083064#Comment_122083064

I've given my reasons why I think the controversy is overblown which you can accept or not.

'it is a safe bet you would not be defending a Democrat in similar circumstances'

You couldn't be more wrong.

Though I am by a long stretch more far critical of progressivism than the average person, I don't actually have a grudge against a foreign political party or a brief to defend their opponents.

Whereas many Irish progressives speak as if Biden was 'their guy', as if they have a connection to him and to the Democratic Party and were actual members of the Democratic Party themselves. No doubt they would vote for Biden in a heartbeat whereas I wouldn't vote for Trump if I somehow could.

What's more, the least reasonable 'voices' driving this controversy are conservative Republicans (from a faction of the Republican Party opposed to Trump).

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083075#Comment_122083075

Don't stress about it.

Some people believe dogs to be part of the family, and love them accordingly. Therefore, they understandably are upset that

1) rather than rehouse a dog

2) acknowledging that they failed in their duty to train or

3) have the dog put down humanely

She brings it to a gravel pit and shoots it.

You're okay with that.

Fine.

Some people are okay with drowning kittens, or driving a dog out to the forest and kicking them out of the car.

Different standards I suppose.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083075#Comment_122083075

This is entirely a fiction of your invention.

The animal was not a present danger when she shot it. The dog was not killed as it was about to attack. Your claims are entirely false and without foundation.

It was a failure of her to teach and control the puppy. There was ample opportunity to bring the dog to vet, follow proper course of action.

In the reasons for shooting the dog Noem listed that she never liked the dog!

Her action was guided by a petulant emotional childish reaction. The action of a fool who is now embarrassing herself on an international stage. The actions of someone who has never achieved emotional control and maturity.

You claim to be concerned about such things.

Thereby completelt discrediting your entire 'defence' of Noem as completely hypocritical.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083105#Comment_122083105

Putting down a dangerous animal is not akin to drowning kittens. I think you know that.

And by dangerous animal I mean perceived to be dangerous after it had, apparently, started to kill several animals one after the other then turned on a human.

And before odyssey chimes in, it's not up to me to prove that the dog was about to attack someone in that exact moment.

The context given was that Noem said the dog turned on a human and was 'untraineable'. If that was true, and I have no idea if it was true but that is - taken at face value - what we are discussing, then the core of the episode (the actual killing) is unremarkable.

From that to cries of "murder"?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083162#Comment_122083162

The opening line of her explanation of killing the dog was that she hated it.

The dog was not a present danger and there is nothing to suggest that even in Noem's self serving account which we only have her word for. There was ample time for an adult considered reaction to the situation. But thats not what we got from Noem.

She failed to control the dog in the presence of neighbours animals.

There is a reason why vets follow a process when putting down an animal. Those are the unemotional trained adults. Why do you think they have such procedures?

No such response for Noem.

She hated.

"I hated that dog,”

Hate is an emotional reaction. It drove her response and conduct.

Werent you concerned above about such behaviour?

Proof positive your entire line of argument here is hypocritical and you are the one pandering to the childish emotional conduct of Noem.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083237#Comment_122083237

I didn't get the impression from the account that it was an emotion-driven killing from spite. She said she hated the dog because she considered it untraineable iirc? She also said it 'turned on a human' after killing several animals one after the other, i.e. that it became dangerous in that moment (in her perception, obviously).

I think I said in my opening post or maybe second post that you can second-guess something like this endlessly. But her account of what happened isn't meant to be read like a defence in a murder trial.

There are people with no connection to controversial politics who have put down animals spontaneously because they made that judgement call. Bringing to a vet is ideal but it doesn't always happen that way. Surely you know this.

I think your use of word 'protocol' - which means something like 'official procedure or system of rules' - is a bit misleading here.

Veterinarians follow protocols yes. Everyday people suddenly and spontaneously confronted with a dangerous animal* don't have a set of official bureaucratic procedures.

*Perceived to be dangerous, or claimed to be dangerous etc.

Overheal

simply amazing

In 2019 Donald Trump signed an animal cruelty criminalization law that passed Congress unanimoulsy. UNANIMOUSLY. https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/724/all-actions

And now because someone with an R in front of their name has shot a few of her pet animals, we nonetheless see people crawl out of the woodworks to defend and handwring and minimize acts of animal cruelty.

I can’t say I’m surprised - I predicted it would happen last week - I’m just still disappointed to see people peeing on that electric fence.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083354#Comment_122083354

She was not "suddenly and spontaneously confronted" with a dangerous animal implying in some way that she had to act in the heat of the moment to protect humans or livestock. She did not shoot "in that moment". Had she or the neighbour shot the dog to prevent or interrupt an attack that would match your description. The dog was under her control after the attack or she could not have brought it to the gravel pit to shoot it but would have had to shoot it on the spot.

"I hated that dog".

Yeah, she made a judgement call. Her judgement was informed by hate. It was emotional. Zero indication of any serious adult considered response as to alternative options for the dog. And yes everyday people do consider going to vets for such circumstances, now maybe they have to rule it out for practical reasons. But there's no indication that was considered here.

Her own words discredit your line of argument here and your criticisms of those attacking her as being "emotional". From her own mouth.

Given that she is being rightly castigated from all sides of politics, and also by people who don't normally dabble in 'controversial politics', your defence of her here and such defences of her elsewhere appear to be in vain.

We can debate the rights and wrongs of the action all night, second guess it - but what is a safe bet this will damage her standing in a general election, if Trump was thinking about her as a VP. That she put such words in a book now, even if it is how she acted at a time, betrays a lack of political awareness. The mask slipped and people do not like what they see.

everlast75

https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1785409745299623940

Not the sharpest knife in the drawer...

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122082991#Comment_122082991

Also if it is true that that particular dog bit multiple humans several times, it would not have been scandalous if Biden or one of his people had put it down.

Indeed - But it's not the "putting an animal down" that's the problem.

It's the "dragging it to a quarry and shooting it in the head" that's the problem and then liking it so much you drag another "unruly pet" to the same quarry and shoot it in the head too , although this time it took two shots to get the job done.

Animal need to be euthanized for a variety of reasons , behavioural problems being one , but most normal people take the animal to a f*cking vet to do it rather than going all dirty Harriet on the poor yoke.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083468#Comment_122083468

I don't agree and I've already given my explanation for what I think so we can leave it at that.

The last thing I would say though is that the fact that people from "all sides of politics" take a different view to me is neither here nor there. I'm not overawed by "consensus" as I've my own opinion.

As for US elections, I don't particularly care about that. Yes it is probably a PR blunder so I agree with your political analysis.

randomuser02125

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083075#Comment_122083075

The number one priority was her telling a story about how big her dick is. Ffs, get a grip. (Fnar)

nachouser

I think we can all agree that this is f*cking ridiculous and a mod is going to have to pick through the nonsense on this thread. Good work lads.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083533#Comment_122083533

I fully believe Republicans would have utterly seized on Biden putting the dog down for biting people at the White House. Not even a question.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122081520#Comment_122081520

An excellent question, which thus even more focuses on the point of "how are the Democrats managing to screw this up?" If the Republicans have no positive messaging on top of the negative messaging that Trump provides, surely all the Democrats would have to do is 'do no harm' and they would sail to victory, no? Yet such seems not to be the case.

Again, I believe that they will attain victory on the current trajectory, but I think we can all agree that it is a lot closer than one would ordinarily anticipate. It -shouldn't- be close. And since we are generally agreed that the Republicans aren't doing themselves all that many favors right now, it is reasonable to presume that there is negative sentiment towards Biden which is making up the difference with no effective counters as yet having been provided.

amandstu

Trump has been found guilty of contempt of court ,I am learning

He is a convicted criminal now ,it seems.

Will that matter to those intending to vote for him?

Not "criminal" enough?

Only technically a criminal?

Overheal

🤔 is he not receiving enough law and order?

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/trump-decries-lack-of-law-and-order-in-new-york-hours-after-leaving-his-criminal-trial-in-new-york/

everlast75

https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1785462188024422481

Oh oh - I know this one!!!!

His ass!

astrofool

The one bright side is that Noem being a terrible human has caused other terrible humans to out themselves.

Igotadose

If TFG's incarcerated for contempt, no matter where, he still has to attend his criminal trial daily. So, in the courtroom during the day, locked up nights and weekends, presumably no social media at that time nor visitors, too. Rikers Island is a possibility, heh. No pressers on break, either, he's a criminal in the custody of the court.

duploelabs

Another law firm leaves trump's orbit, I'd assume as they're not being paid

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/30/us/politics/trump-lawyers-delgado.html?unlocked_article_code=1.ok0.dQ0Z.Xpy2xfszQQ63&smid=url-share

ancapailldorcha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083021#Comment_122083021

This is whataboutery, the standard defence for this sort of thing.

The thing I don't get is your need to defend literally everything these people do. If you support them, you can still criticise them.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084045#Comment_122084045

My impression of many of those who support the more extreme / feral side of right-wing politics is that they are often more invested in their side being “correct” in any argument, regardless of how wrong they may be in a given topic.

“Noem shot a dog, therfore it’s ok.”: Is essentially what they’re saying. It’s nothing to do with the act itself, just that one of their side did it…therefore it’s ok. This is likely why we still have posters on here defending a confirmed rapist. If one of their side did it…it’s ok.

To sort of draw out this idea. Let’s say a MAGA politician (or especially Trump himself) got drunk one day and drove their car into a lake, and then instead admitting their error claimed that they just wanted to “wash their car”. You just know you’d have MAGA-leaning posters here defending their choice to drive a car into a lake. Declaring that “Lake-Driving” is by far the best way to wash a car, and that concerns about destroying the engine (or drowning) are just Woke hysterics. This demonstrably bad move would be declared “OK”, for the simple reason that someone on their side did it.

The Far-Right can never be wrong…..*especially* when they are.

kowloon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084247#Comment_122084247

The thing I don't get is your need to defend literally everything these people do. If you support them, you can still criticise them.

That's the thing, people often seem to think you have to align 100% with who you support, particularly when it's in a two-party system like in the US (or UK, I suppose). I think people have less "brand loyalty" when it comes to a PR system.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122083920#Comment_122083920

It shouldn't be this close, but elements of the race are defying conventional expectation. The Democrats and Biden in particular are focusing strongly on their economic achievements, which are tangible and provable. However, somehow the sentiments about the economy are still in the toilet. Everyone thinks their own economic situation is improved but somehow that the general economy is worse. It is hard to reach out to that. There is something very bizarre going on in this cycle.

Leroy42

It is not bizarre at all. People have been conditioned, for many years, to ignore reality and ignore facts and that feelings are all that matter.

'I feel worse off', or 'I feel oppressed' is taken as being a completely legitimate position. Look at the vast amount of Trump Vox pops, the question of what policy they like, or what Trump achieved or will achieve never gets a proper response. It is emotional. Even protecting the border is emotional. They fear the people crossing the border. Not because of anything factual, just an innate fear.

What is ironic is that is are the very same people who claim all others are woke for having feelings.

So the effect of all of that is that there is very little the democrats, in this case, can say to get that voter. Because emotionally they are tied to Trump. Until voters actually start taking their responsibility seriously, and this is where the democrats are failing badly, then it is very hard to see a situation where it will be anything but close.

No voter, well no sane voter, should be even contemplating voting for Trump. But fear of socialism, or wokeness, or migrants is enough for them to ignore the clear negatives and vote for Trump based on their feelings

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122084950#Comment_122084950

This is all true, but it's a far stronger effect than at any time in the past. One has to wonder about just what drove such a large swathe of people down this cult thought drain. I still maintain it's bizarre!

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122085039#Comment_122085039

I'd argue it began here.

It's not the first time I posted this. It lives forever in my brain...

https://youtu.be/xnhJWusyj4I?si=bkvkkD5kMLEI1_MJ

Podge_irl

Newt Gingrich was the start of a lot of dreadful precedents in US politics…