What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

everlast75

https://twitter.com/Santucci/status/1410560504997855233?s=19

Similar to his statement on Manafort etc.

"Please don't flip"

Penn

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AnaCabrera/status/1410568185326321666?s=19

It's patently obvious that Kevin has stuff to hide.

The "there's nothing to see here" brigade have reached Comical Ali proportions.

Seems like an attempt to pass off the entire commission to the Dems, then attack it for being completely partisan and biased. It's a risky move that might help them in the court of public opinion with their own supporters, but could be hugely damaging if the likes of OANN and Fox can't rely on showing clips of the GOP questioning witnesses or pontificating about how it's a witch hunt etc.

Regarding Weisselberg, I was reading that one of the things which lead to the charges against him and the tax fraud in general was his former daughter in law, and claims she made about properties given to them by the Trump Org. If that's true, that also likely brings his sons into it (who also work for Trump companies) and could be what turns Weisselberg.

Quin_Dub

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Santucci/status/1410560504997855233?s=19

Similar to his statement on Manafort etc.

"Please don't flip"

Someone in the Trump Org PR Team is getting a slap this morning - They called him "the former President" - I thought he won???

Quin_Dub

Penn wrote: »

Seems like an attempt to pass off the entire commission to the Dems, then attack it for being completely partisan and biased. It's a risky move that might help them in the court of public opinion with their own supporters, but could be hugely damaging if the likes of OANN and Fox can't rely on showing clips of the GOP questioning witnesses or pontificating about how it's a witch hunt etc.

Regarding Weisselberg, I was reading that one of the things which lead to the charges against him and the tax fraud in general was his former daughter in law, and claims she made about properties given to them by the Trump Org. If that's true, that also likely brings his sons into it (who also work for Trump companies) and could be what turns Weisselberg.

Definitely part of it - Apparently they were given rent free housing in Trump Properties that weren't declared as BIK (or whatever the US version is) and in fact the former Daughter in Law says she was evicted with only a few days notice by them as well.

This 1st tranche of charges all appear to be related to various "under the table" payments and benefits to staff to avoid tax liabilities.

It's interesting to note that the Trump Org statement doesn't deny the charges , but just claims that nobody else would be interested in taking it to court.

notobtuse

Quin_Dub wrote: »

In terms of the distribution of how illegal immigrants come to be in the US, this article gives a reasonable breakdown

Is that GIF your way of accepting that walls don't work and are a complete waste of time effort and money?

Every country has the right to deal with illegal immigration how they see fit within the bounds of National and International law , we're just pointing out that building a wall is without question the least effective method of resolving or even mitigating the issue. And more specifically, illegally using government funds intended for another purpose to build said wall is an even stupider act.

It should also be pointed out that a significant proportion of those coming to the US are not doing so illegally (at least at first) - If someone arrives at a border post and requests asylum they have broken no laws - They are entitled to seek asylum and then the country (US in this case) reviews their claim and decides if it's valid etc. (Ireland currently do a horrible job of this process with Direct Provision being an utter shambles from start to finish).

Now , if they do a runner while waiting for that ruling , then they have broken the law and are now an "Illegal Immigrant" and should be treated as such, but just arriving at the border is not a crime despite what Fox et al might try to tell people every single day of the week.

There is a flaw in your thinking. According to the NPR article you posted it seems around 2/3 of the illegals are overstays. Yet it also goes on to note that of the 2/3 number there seems to be many that once they get across the border illegally they then apply for asylum, and become lost in the system and go into hiding. Our system is broken, and the quickest way to put a patch on it is to build the wall and force those wishing to enter to do it the correct and legal way.

There is another problem with your assertion. If as the Yale study indicates the actual number of illegal immigrants in the country is 22 million and not the 11 million the government who seem to have some verifiable information, then illegal crossings would have to account for 14.5 million ((22-11) + (2/3 x 11)), therefore making the number of illegals in the country that crossed the border illegally over 2/3 of the total number. And you really should add into that the ones who crossed the border illegally, and ONLY THEN demand asylum and get lost in the application.

What I accept is the older ineffective walls don’t work and the new walls from Trump do work. Also from your NPR article…

Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen said at the White House on Wednesday that "everywhere we put up a wall, illegal immigration has been reduced 90 to 95 percent."

Therefore building an effective wall is without question the BEST effective method of resolving or even mitigating the issue, and a worthwhile use of funds.

Building a wall would free up resources to track down these 22 million illegals in the country and deal with them appropriately.
_ _ _ _

On a personal note, thank you for reasoned debate. It is refreshing to interact in this thread without being coerced into turning the other cheek on scurrilous and dishonest comments or have to suffer the biased consequences.

everlast75

Trump apparently thinks his two sons are thick.

Turns out, Fred's son is equally as think. Fred kept it all tight and was business savy. Donny couldn't help himself. He wanted the fame and glory.

Running for president may very well be the worst decision he ever made.

notobtuse

Penn wrote: »

Seems like an attempt to pass off the entire commission to the Dems, then attack it for being completely partisan and biased. It's a risky move that might help them in the court of public opinion with their own supporters, but could be hugely damaging if the likes of OANN and Fox can't rely on showing clips of the GOP questioning witnesses or pontificating about how it's a witch hunt etc.

Regarding Weisselberg, I was reading that one of the things which lead to the charges against him and the tax fraud in general was his former daughter in law, and claims she made about properties given to them by the Trump Org. If that's true, that also likely brings his sons into it (who also work for Trump companies) and could be what turns Weisselberg.

No, the GOP is calling the Democrats' bluff on the Capitol riot that Biden is obviously claiming was worse for American democracy than four presidential assassinations, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 by his comments. Democrats actions are political nonsense and just more of their continued witch-hunt against Trump as a way to deflect the public’s attention away from their and the White House administration’s utter failings and incompetence.

The Democrat commission is a pure political ploy because numerous federal law enforcement agencies are already examining the riot while they prosecute cases, and other congressional committees have already investigated the Capitol riot.

Last week 7 Republican House members introduced legislation to investigate the involvement of antifa in the riots we witnessed in 2020 that have caused upwards of $2 Billion in damages from their, and BLM's, arson, looting and violence that Democrats have mostly ignored.

It is bill H.R. 4117 and seeks to establish a “National Commission on Domestic Terrorist Attacks on the United States.”

A commission needs to take place to investigate the Black Lives Matter and antifa rioters who terrorized numerous cities last year, and also investigate why prosecutors all over the country have dropped charges on them while going full throttle on prosecuting those involved on 1/6. Justice is supposed to be fair not political. It obviously isn’t and there needs to be a thorough investigation.

Smee_Again

notobtuse wrote: »

No, the GOP is calling the Democrats' bluff on the Capitol riot that Biden is obviously claiming was worse for American democracy than four presidential assassinations, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 by his comments. Democrats actions are political nonsense and just more of their continued witch-hunt against Trump as a way to deflect the public’s attention away from their and the White House administration’s utter failings and incompetence.

The Democrat commission is a pure political ploy because numerous federal law enforcement agencies are already examining the riot while they prosecute cases, and other congressional committees have already investigated the Capitol riot.

Last week 7 Republican House members introduced legislation to investigate the involvement of antifa in the riots we witnessed in 2020 that have caused upwards of $2 Billion in damages from their, and BLM's, arson, looting and violence that Democrats have mostly ignored.

It is bill H.R. 4117 and seeks to establish a “National Commission on Domestic Terrorist Attacks on the United States.”

A commission needs to take place to investigate the Black Lives Matter and antifa rioters who terrorized numerous cities last year, and also investigate why prosecutors all over the country have dropped charges on them while going full throttle on prosecuting those involved on 1/6. Justice is supposed to be fair not political. It obviously isn’t and there needs to be a thorough investigation.

Where did you copy and paste these from?

Faugheen

notobtuse wrote: »

No, the GOP is calling the Democrats' bluff on the Capitol riot that Biden is obviously claiming was worse for American democracy than four presidential assassinations, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11 by his comments. Democrats actions are political nonsense and just more of their continued witch-hunt against Trump as a way to deflect the public’s attention away from their and the White House administration’s utter failings and incompetence.

How can it be a witch hunt against Trump if he did nothing wrong?

Surely if he did nothing wrong then the best thing for the GOP to do politically is join this commission and claim a victory when it proves this.

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think your ramblings make any coherent sense. You're a complete cultist and you downplay the Capitol riot by saying it wasn't 9/11. You're a disgrace.

Btw, where did Biden say it was worse than any of those things?

weisses

notobtuse wrote: »

Yet it also goes on to note that of the 2/3 number there seems to be many that once they get across the border illegally they then apply for asylum, and become lost in the system and go into hiding.

Why would you cross the border illegally with a valid visa ? ....

The 2/3 number is about visa overstays ... Or perhaps you can point out with a link who the "many" are

notobtuse

Faugheen wrote: »

How can it be a witch hunt against Trump if he did nothing wrong?

Surely if he did nothing wrong then the best thing for the GOP to do politically is join this commission and claim a victory when it proves this.

You're absolutely kidding yourself if you think your ramblings make any coherent sense. You're a complete cultist and you downplay the Capitol riot by saying it wasn't 9/11. You're a disgrace.

Btw, where did Biden say it was worse than any of those things?

You’re wrong on so much, but that’s understandable coming from someone who obviously feels empowered to call another poster, who gives reasoned debate and opinions, a cultist and a disgrace without any consequences.

No, the best thing is for the GOP to address real domestic terroristic and criminal acts.

Biden called the Capitol riots the ‘worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War.’ It would have to be worse then those things I listed for him to make that statement, wouldn’t you agree?

ohnonotgmail

notobtuse wrote: »

You’re wrong on so much, but that’s understandable coming from someone who obviously feels empowered to call another poster, who gives reasoned debate and opinions, a cultist and a disgrace without any consequences.

No, the best thing is for the GOP to address real domestic terroristic and criminal acts.

Biden called the Capitol riots the ‘worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War.’ It would have to be worse then those things I listed for him to make that statement, wouldn’t you agree?

they tried to stop the certification of the presidential results and were happy to use violence to do so. How that isn't an attack on democracy I don't know. Added to the fact that some of the people there were given guided tours the day before by members of congress. A congressional investigation with people called to account is definitely warranted.

notobtuse

notobtuse wrote: »

You’re wrong on so much, but that’s understandable coming from someone who obviously feels empowered to call another poster, who gives reasoned debate and opinions, a cultist and a disgrace without any consequences.

No, the best thing is for the GOP to address real domestic terroristic and criminal acts.

Biden called the Capitol riots the ‘worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War.’ It would have to be worse then those things I listed for him to make that statement, wouldn’t you agree?

Hmmm I'm a bit confused here. You say he is wrong on so much, thereby suggesting that you think he should take the 'notobtuse' approach and not reply, but then ask him a question at the end, thereby suggesting you want a reply.

Quite the paradox.

notobtuse

weisses wrote: »

Why would you cross the border illegally with a valid visa ? ....

The 2/3 number is about visa overstays ... Or perhaps you can point out with a link who the "many" are

That 2/3’s number you mention (600,000 of 700,000) in the article represents combined data since 2007... that's 14 years. Yet it is estimated that illegal immigration grows at a rate in the US of about 450,000 per year. That would be about 6,300,000 illegal immigrants over the same time. The numbers don't add up, wouldn't you agree?

notobtuse

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they tried to stop the certification of the presidential results and were happy to use violence to do so. How that isn't an attack on democracy I don't know. Added to the fact that some of the people there were given guided tours the day before by members of congress. A congressional investigation with people called to account is definitely warranted.

The protestors didn't try and stop the certification of the presidential results, and they know there was no way for them to do that. They protested, albeit in a stupid manner, the flawed and suspect election system we witnessed.

Tell me how

notobtuse wrote: »

You’re wrong on so much, but that’s understandable coming from someone who obviously feels empowered to call another poster, who gives reasoned debate and opinions, a cultist and a disgrace without any consequences.

No, the best thing is for the GOP to address real domestic terroristic and criminal acts.

Biden called the Capitol riots the ‘worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War.’ It would have to be worse then those things I listed for him to make that statement, wouldn’t you agree?

No. Not at all. Not by any stretch.

Jan 6th saw people who were led to believe the election was stolen by the sitting President repeatedly claiming it with no evidence that that was the case.

On the morning of the 6th, he gave a speech to these people telling them they needed to fight to stop their democracy being stolen and they should march down to the Capitol to stop what was happening. And that he would be right there with them.

They did so, and brought a gallows from which they called for the Vice President to stop certifying the electoral votes. They attacked police and broke through barriers, windows, and doors and tried to access the chamber where the votes were being certified. Many people suffered injury, trauma and death as a consequence of what happened that day. And the flag of the defeated confederate army was carried through the halls of the capitol like it was at the head of a force the country was at war with.

None of the Presidential assassinations, Peral Harbour, 9/11 attacks you mentioned were an attack on 'Democracy' which you literally included in your quote of what Biden said. You are way way off in trying to make a valid argument.

If you wanted to highlight attacks on American Democracy you could have referenced the Republican state legislatures efforts to introduce rafts of regulations to impact on future elections which will likely help them significantly as maybe going to be more impactful than Jan 6th but then they have come since Jan 6th and so Biden was still correct in his statement and they are laws helping those you agree with and so you of course don't think that that is a problem.

ohnonotgmail

notobtuse wrote: »

The protestors didn't try and stop the certification of the presidential results, and they know there was no way for them to do that. They protested, albeit in a stupid manner, the flawed and suspect election system we witnessed.

they broken into the capitol building. the vice-president was placed in lockdown. One of the protestors had to the shot after they broke through a window to get to the vice-president. You cry about being called a cultist but when you post nonsense like that it is easy to understand why.

Billy Mays

notobtuse wrote: »

The protestors didn't try and stop the certification of the presidential results, and they know there was no way for them to do that. They protested, albeit in a stupid manner, the flawed and suspect election system we witnessed.

Complains about being called a cultist and then actually types that out and hits Submit

everlast75

notobtuse wrote: »

You’re wrong on so much, but that’s understandable coming from someone who obviously feels empowered to call another poster, who gives reasoned debate and opinions, a cultist and a disgrace without any consequences.

No, the best thing is for the GOP to address real domestic terroristic and criminal acts.

Biden called the Capitol riots the ‘worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War.’ It would have to be worse then those things I listed for him to make that statement, wouldn’t you agree?

2 years and 7m dollars spent on the benghazi hearings by Republicans.

The capitol building is attacked, people died, people went looking to hang the VP and now the Reps say they're against such an investigation.

Everyone bar the blinkered can see why.

notobtuse

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

they broken into the capitol building. the vice-president was placed in lockdown. One of the protestors had to the shot after they broke through a window to get to the vice-president. You cry about being called a cultist but when you post nonsense like that it is easy to understand why.

Please show me were it is proven that unarmed girl who climbed through a window, with several armed police on the other side with pistols drawn, tried to get to the vice-president.

ohnonotgmail

notobtuse wrote: »

Please show me were it is proven that unarmed girl who climbed through a window, with several armed police on the other side with pistols drawn, tried to get to the vice-president.

was she looking for the bathroom?

Smee_Again

notobtuse wrote: »

Please show me were it is proven that unarmed girl who climbed through a window, with several armed police on the other side with pistols drawn, tried to get to the vice-president.

Do you think her last words were

Excuse Me Sir, Do You Have a Moment to Talk About Jesus Christ?

Because I don't think that's why she was climbing through that door.

Tell me how

notobtuse wrote: »

Please show me were it is proven that unarmed girl who climbed through a window, with several armed police on the other side with pistols drawn, tried to get to the vice-president.

The unarmed girl who refused to obey orders from police officers and tried to ignore them in climbing through a broken window, in a locked door with a gun pointed at her?

WTF do you think she was doing? Looking for the gift shop?

Penn

notobtuse wrote: »

Biden called the Capitol riots the ‘worst attack on our democracy since the Civil War.’ It would have to be worse then those things I listed for him to make that statement, wouldn’t you agree?

Pearl Harbour and 9/11 were attacks by foreign countries/terrorists. The four Presidential assassinations were, IIRC, by persons acting alone.

The Capitol Riot was a large crowd, many of whom intentionally brought weapons, who breached one of the political houses of power in the US in order to disrupt the certification of results of the Presidential Election, including persons who chanted about hanging the Vice President (who was to certify the results), and well as actively looking for (with threats of violence) the Speaker of the House and numerous other elected officials.

The rioters were actively and intentionally trying to disrupt and prevent the results of a democratic election, as well as trying to find and potentially hurt democratically elected officials.

It was, by every definition, an attack on US democracy itself.

ohnonotgmail

It is amazing that somebody thinks they can gaslight us about an event that most of us watched live.

notobtuse

Billy Mays wrote: »

Complains about being called a cultist and then actually types that out and hits Submit

No, just calling out the Democrat's non productive efforts based on thinking people like this meemaw on 1/6 are Public Enemy Number One and the greatest threat to our democracy...

ohnonotgmail

notobtuse wrote: »

No, just calling out the Democrat's non productive efforts based on thinking people like this meemaw on 1/6 are Public Enemy Number One and the greatest threat to our democracy...

was she alone?

Has no one considered the possibility that, as they would be replacing Trump memorabilia with Biden memorabilia in the gift shop, that they were simply rushing in Black Friday style to get their last mementos of their dear leader?

notobtuse

Smee_Again wrote: »

Do you think her last words were

Because I don't think that's why she was climbing through that door.

You tell me since you obviously claim to know what her intentions were.

robinph

notobtuse wrote: »

Please show me were it is proven that unarmed girl who climbed through a window, with several armed police on the other side with pistols drawn, tried to get to the vice-president.

Is that the same 35 year old "girl" who had previously been in the air force, and was being shouted at repeatedly by Capitol Police from through the door, who had their weapons drawn, to get down and go back from the barricaded door. That same "girl"?