What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998909#Comment_120998909

"The point raised from 3 minutes on this video reiterates the point that amanstu makes, the problem is not only his base's reaction if he does get imprisoned or whatever, its what/who they will follow when he is out of the picture. "

Cannot get onboard with this idea. The logic appears to be that if someone has followers who can be violent, they should get better treatment?

So if Biden did the same thing, because his followers *aren't* violent, he would be jailed?

looksee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998936#Comment_120998936

That's not what was being said, the point was that after Trump there will still be a large number of impressionable people looking for a cult leader and what they find may be an even worse option than Trump.

He should not be 'let off' but pragmatically the logistics of incarcerating an ex-President are huge (and would apply to any other President), before you even get to the martyr status it would give him. Removing him from the public eye would take his lifeblood. There would have to be legal provision for some aspects of this, but if the Republicans understood they were choosing between him wearing an orange jumpsuit and just fading from public awareness, I think they might be willing to defuse the situation.

Ideally, yes, he should be just put behind bars, but pragmatically it would have to be some sort of house arrest with no public contact.

There is no comparison between him and any other president committing offences, there has never been a president of the US who has been so vocal, so willing to lie and so determined to do any amount of damage to the country in order to get his own way. Its arguable that his sanity is in question, though I think he would be found fit to stand trial.

He absolutely should not be pardoned at any stage of the proceedings.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998999#Comment_120998999

House him in a military base.

Case closed.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999060#Comment_120999060

Yeah: clear out the existing prisoners from Guantanamo and put TFG there instead. Problem (or 2 problems?)solved

McFly85

Pardoning Trump will do more damage than throwing him in jail.

He will be straight onto SM saying that the prosecution knew they had no case from day 1 and begged Trump to go through with the trial, that it was just a vindictive judge and jury, but everyone really knew he was innocent.

So aside from calling into question the entire justice system, it also sets a precedent for the level of criminality a president can expect to get away with. If you can try and overturn an election without any real consequences you can bet the GOP will try that again.

Being preferential to him does not allow the country to heal, it will further its divide.

astrofool

So, even the other GOP candidates think trump is too pathetic to defend.

DeSantis:

Trump isn’t here, so let’s just leave him alone. He’s too weak to defend himself here.

Any thoughts from the trumpeters?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998615#Comment_120998615

"The reason for granting a pardon would be that it might allow the politics to become less inflamed and the divisions in society to lessen."

I'm kind of curious about this, because it seems to be the avenue a lot of the GOP or Trump supporters are going with (not saying you are one, just using your post as a jumping-off point).

Nixon was forced to resign and Ford pardoned him. Nixon admitted fault and apologised. Ford often justified his pardoning of Nixon by pointing out that accepting the pardon means accepting and acknowledging guilt. Regardless, Nixon being pardoned was the end of his political career, there would never be a way back for him. It can be argued that he escaped justice due to the pardon, but either way he faced significant consequences for his actions.

That's not what's happening with Trump. He's actively seeking to be President again, admits to no wrongdoing on his own part, and dropping the charges or pardoning him won't end things, it'll allow them to continue. Politics won't become less inflamed, because it would be removing the "Find Out" part of "F*ck Around And Find Out". It would embolden future politicians to do the same because, as Trump keeps pointing out that what's happening to him is unprecedented, pardoning or dropping the cases against him becomes precedent.

Does anyone actually believe his supporters would see Trump being pardoned, say "Ah fair play, maybe we need to calm things down a bit going forward"? F*ck no.

Politics has become so inflamed in the last 10 years partly because of Trump. He does nothing but pour petrol on the fire, and continues to do so. There will never be contrition from him, never an acknowledgement of wrongdoing, never even a thanks to whoever pardons him. He'll continue to pour that petrol.

He needs to be removed from being near the fire. There needs to be consequences for his actions. His supporters will remain inflamed, but better to be trying to keep a dying flame alight than the wildfire Trump getting back into power or being given a free pardon could cause.

briany

@amandstu

The reason for granting a pardon would be that it might allow the politics to become less inflamed and the divisions in society to lessen.

I would still suggest that the "man" himself would need to show some sign of genuine remorse -otherwise ,well that is probably obvious.

He's never going to show genuine remorse. He may, however, attempt to distance himself from his actions for a brief time in order to wriggle out of any legal culpability, but the moment he senses the heat has passed and that those actions are actually quite popular with his supporters, he'll be bragging about them on Truth Social.

This isn't even hypothetical - he already has form. He went from condemning the people who broke into the capitol in that Jan 7th address, all the way around to saying Ashley Babbitt was a hero and that he'd pardon those involved.

He doesn't care. If pardoned, he will 100 percent use his freedom to continue wreaking havoc. As I said before, the only difference between pardoning him and not pardoning him (if convicted) would be that not pardoning him may bring things to a boil a bit quicker, but things seem to be heading inevitably in that direction anyway.

I.R.Y.E.D

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998615#Comment_120998615

Pardoning him would do nothing but show the next cúnt, and there are plenty of them in the GOP, that they have nothing to fear in relation to their actions.

As for trump being genuine, I don't do the lotto, but I've more chances of winning it than that happening.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998770#Comment_120998770

Ooh I know I know the answer to this one:

https://youtu.be/IsdbCjlZ5cQ

duploelabs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999772#Comment_120999772

Region locked unfortunately

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999901#Comment_120999901

That’s sad I don’t have a mirror for it.

briany

MSNBC have put up a video claiming that it's 'nearly impossible' for Trump to run a presidential campaign while under these indictments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDIUVRxv4Po

I'd be inclined to agree if this were a traditional candidate, but of course he's not. His supremacy over his party is absolute and it's looking like all he has to do to secure the nomination is remain alive, on the ballot and keep the odd capslock 'truth' coming. His rivals for the nomination must know this and secretly regard their campaigns as a mere exercise in boosting their profile in preparation for the possible day when neither Trump nor Trumpism is in control of the Republican party. They may be waiting a looong time for that, however.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001442#Comment_121001442

That's part of his hybrid political/legal strategy.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/trump-lawyers-demand-trump-appointed-judge-take-action-against-jack-smith-for-intentionally-derailing-presidential-campaign/

He seems to think the courts can't move past Aileen Cannon's trial dates and they have to push everything back to kingdom come.

banie01

Interesting article from Salon, highlighting the very real possibility that Trump's mental health problems are becoming an existential threat to US democracy.

Trump has shown a wide range of pathological behavior over the past seven years or so. He has an unhealthy fascination with violence. He lacks impulse control and empathy. He revels in cruelty. He compulsively lies and exhibits traits of malignant narcissism. He is a confirmed sexual predator and misogynist. He has a tenuous relationship to reality, and increasingly retreats into victimology and a persecution complex. He believes himself to be almost literally superhuman and often behaves like a cult leader.

In my many conversations with mental health experts during the Age of Trump, one of their consistent themes has been the suggestion that if the ex-president was not a rich white man he would likely have been arrested or otherwise removed from normal society decades ago.

https://www.salon.com/2023/08/18/our-collective-malady-donald-mental-health/

Overheal

Fox News "fair and balanced"

https://www.mediaite.com/news/foxs-martha-maccallum-defends-ceo-dinner-with-trump-at-golf-club-i-dont-think-theres-anything-unusual/

If Ziegler was having lunch with Joe Biden, or Hillary, their heads would roll onto the floor and sprout demon wings about it.

Glencarraig

Jail the pri*k and let the National Guard deal with whatever the lunatics come up with. A few days of tear gas, rubber bullets and any amount of head opening with batons will have the rats quickly dissappearing back down to the sewers and swamps where they belong.

Agent Coulson

I'd say a lot of Republicians are secertly hoping he will have a KFC/McDonalds heart attack and that will put paid to everything from the court cases to him running for President.

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001690#Comment_121001690

Maybe some of them could have a word with Vlad. He’s good at that stuff allegedly.

everlast75

*FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!!"

Agent Coulson

This sums up the likes of her and Trump.

Well worth a listen.

https://twitter.com/rainnwilson/status/1692670483508965753?s=20

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001714#Comment_121001714

Trump should stick to the ground floor of buildings

maik3n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001890#Comment_121001890

For further reference

http://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/19/desantis-trump-listless-vessels-00111971

I think thankfully, he is done now in terms of his chances for president.

Floridians just need to figure out how to kick his a55 out of the Governors mansion now.

Rawr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001690#Comment_121001690

It never ceases to amaze me how spineless the GOP leadership are to the point where they passed up the single best shot they had of jettisoning Trump just following the events of Jan6. Their own membership had been threatened by the terrorists storming the capital since they’d likely not care if the politician was GOP or not (hell there was even one moment where the treacherous nit-wits went through pro-MAGA documents on the seat of a GOP house member thinking they’d found “evidence” of something against them…despite it being the exact opposite.) It was apparent to many of the GOP, even on the day itself, that Trump had sold them up the river and had personally unleashed the Gravy Seals on them.

With all that fresh in everyone’s minds the GOP could have convicted Trump in the impeachment and banned him from office. It would have cost them the most hard-core MAGA / Q-Anon nut jobs, but they’d at least have 4 years to regain their control on the rest of the GOP. But they didn’t convict him…and as time passes the Terrorists become “Tourists” and their violent invasion of the Capitol becomes “peaceful protest”. The violent knuckle-draggers who wanted to “Hang Mike Pence” and even built a gallows for the occasion, are somehow victims.

The GOP lost their best chance to be rid of him and suffer temporary hardship. Biden would likely have won a second term too in this scenario, but at least after 8 years they could at least compete as a GOP Party again, and not just as an extension of the ego of the rapist Donald Trump.

For their own sakes they should try to find their own collective spines and forbid the criminal traitor from running on their ticket. They can’t depend on the Grim Reaper coming along and taking one for the team by actually touching the Orange Lummox, and you just know many of the GOP are hoping for just that. But they can’t count on that, and Trump could live decades more while the GOP slowly rots around him.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001673#Comment_121001673

This kind of thinking incidentally is exactly why John Eastman is in so much ****.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121001947#Comment_121001947

His cultivation of mass and large centre of gravity makes it both difficult to topple him and to fit him through the majority of windows.

briany

@Rawr

It never ceases to amaze me how spineless the GOP leadership are to the point where they passed up the single best shot they had of jettisoning Trump just following the events of Jan6. Their own membership had been threatened by the terrorists storming the capital since they’d likely not care if the politician was GOP or not (hell there was even one moment where the treacherous nit-wits went through pro-MAGA documents on the seat of a GOP house member thinking they’d found “evidence” of something against them…despite it being the exact opposite.) It was apparent to many of the GOP, even on the day itself, that Trump had sold them up the river and had personally unleashed the Gravy Seals on them.

What do you mean the "GOP leadership"? Trump is their leader. He has been since 2016 or so. He has the hearts and minds of the party's base. The likes of Mitch McConnell and all these guys need those votes to stay in their jobs, and since those votes are largely loyal to Trump, they must be loyal to Trump. They were never in a position to break with him and stay relevant within the party. It's really that simple.

The best scheme they've come up with to get rid of Trump is to replace him with a tepid watered-down version in Ron DeSantis, and it's pretty pathetic. The base know DeSantis is a weak copy and they've said they want the full-fat original. For better or worse, as long as the Republican base is dominated by this mood of ignorance and rage, Trump will be who they want, because he is all that personified in a way that simultaneously manages to be phoney and authentic.

Overheal

Republican conservative legal scholars Fmr. Judge Luttig and Harvard emeritus constitutional law scholar Lawrence Tribe present the legal argument that the insurrection clause is self-executing, and it's rather compelling. For instance the clause states the Congress may remove the inability by 2/3rds vote. It is not something requiring no other adjudication or prosecution, much like there were no lawsuits demanded to determine the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate, or any candidates birth certificate, these requirements of running are acted upon by secretaries of state:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PndXVq3zF4c

Their argument in prose:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/08/donald-trump-constitutionally-prohibited-presidency/675048/

"The basis of our political systems is the right of the people to make and to alter their Constitutions of Government. But the Constitution which at any time exists, till changed by an explicit and authentic act of the whole people, is sacredly obligatory upon all. The very idea of the power and the right of the people to establish Government presupposes the duty of every individual to obey the established Government." - George Washington

"Having thought long and deeply about the text, history, and purpose of the Fourteenth Amendment’s disqualification clause for much of our professional careers, both of us concluded some years ago that, in fact, a conviction would be beside the point. The disqualification clause operates independently of any such criminal proceedings and, indeed, also independently of impeachment proceedings and of congressional legislation. The clause was designed to operate directly and immediately upon those who betray their oaths to the Constitution, whether by taking up arms to overturn our government or by waging war on our government by attempting to overturn a presidential election through a bloodless coup."

Water John

Problem is, any official in the US could during any election, invoke this.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121002203#Comment_121002203

Problem?