What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Many people say that only for the pandemic Trump would have won. I dont believe that to be true.

Of course he'd have won. He only just lost despite completely mismanaging something that killed more than all military deaths in the last 100 years.

Even with that, if had a shred of competency and just stayed out of things and deferred to the experts, he'd probably have won.

He showed complete and utter incompetency in the role, apathy for the suffering of people, closet racism towards black people, selfishness and bitterness while in office and still 74M people said 'Please Sir, can we have some more'. That is why we know America is in such a mess politically.

ExMachina1000

Tell me how wrote: »

Of course he'd have won. He only just lost despite completely mismanaging something that killed more than all military deaths in the last 100 years.

Even with that, if had a shred of competency and just stayed out of things and deferred to the experts, he'd probably have won.

He showed complete and utter incompetency in the role, apathy for the suffering of people, closet racism towards black people, selfishness and bitterness while in office and still 74M people said 'Please Sir, can we have some more'. That is why we know America is in such a mess politically.

They say whatever is big in America usually comes to Europe within 5 years or so. But that's normally just with things like consumer trends rather than politics.

He was never going to win a second term. From day 1 he was under the spotlight from the media. Much more than the new guy will be. Maybe the new guy will be a disaster and hand it to him if he runs but I'd imagine Biden will be solid enough. That is unless he begins to pander to the further left parts of the Democrats.

This year is a write off, next year will tell a lot

duploelabs

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

They say whatever is big in America usually comes to Europe within 5 years or so. But that's normally just with things like consumer trends rather than politics.

He was never going to win a second term. From day 1 he was under the spotlight from the media. Much more than the new guy will be. Maybe the new guy will be a disaster and hand it to him if he runs but I'd imagine Biden will be solid enough. That is unless he begins to pander to the further left parts of the Democrats.

This year is a write off, next year will tell a lot

'They' say?
Did 'they' start the sentence with 'Sir'?

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

They say whatever is big in America usually comes to Europe within 5 years or so. But that's normally just with things like consumer trends rather than politics.

He was never going to win a second term. From day 1 he was under the spotlight from the media. Much more than the new guy will be. Maybe the new guy will be a disaster and hand it to him if he runs but I'd imagine Biden will be solid enough. That is unless he begins to pander to the further left parts of the Democrats.

This year is a write off, next year will tell a lot

We've just agreed that he came within a hairs breadth of winning a second term. He couldn't stay out of his own way to do it.

ExMachina1000

Tell me how wrote: »

We've just agreed that he came within a hairs breadth of winning a second term. He couldn't stay out of his own way to do it.

Would he win if he ran again in the next election or do you think "Trumpism" is temporary and support for him will wane?

ExMachina1000

duploelabs wrote: »

'They' say?
Did 'they' start the sentence with 'Sir'?

I don't understand. Sorry

duploelabs

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I don't understand. Sorry

'People say'

'Many have said'

'Lots of people are saying'

Speech patterns that would be synonymous with fabrications.


On the second point

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/16/politics/sir-trump-telltale-word-false/index.html

ExMachina1000

duploelabs wrote: »

'People say'

'Many have said'

'Lots of people are saying'

Speech patterns that would be synonymous with fabrications.


On the second point

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/16/politics/sir-trump-telltale-word-false/index.html

So you think that American consumer trends dont spread to Europe?

Il give you a hint: its accepted as a reality since the early 1900s

duploelabs

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

So you think that American consumer trends dont spread to Europe?

It's an equal flow both ways and not unidirectional as you attest

And since we're editing posts. If you're going to make assertions such as that, post citation if it's 'generally assumed', but then certainly Germany exported its politics to America, just took 90 years to get there

ExMachina1000

duploelabs wrote: »

It's an equal flow both ways and not unidirectional as you attest

Not at all

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Would he win if he ran again in the next election or do you think "Trumpism" is temporary and support for him will wane?

I don't know there are 2 many variables to consider right now.

What I do know is that if we runs, and wins, that is no indication as to his suitability for the office. It will evidence of craven behaviour by Republicans at every level from party leadership, state officials and individual members to forgive someone for the role they played in an attempted insurrection and the likely gerrymandering and other activities which they will undertake so as to try to ensure that he wins.

Trumpism is temporary, what is it only selfishness and narcissism. There's no particular belief or ideology. 'America First' was and is only a buzzword in his mind which he can easily chant pretending it means something. He had his time in office and we've see he had nothing in terms of policy which would indicate he was focused on the needs of all Americans.

duploelabs

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Not at all

Cite your assertions then, food for example is certainly not the case and America would be at least 20 years behind Europe

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Not at all

Cycling is a growing sport and mode of transport in America, that came from Europe. Football (soccer) similar. America doesn't really have conventional cuisine outside of fast food but even so Pizza originated in Naples and in the US people going for a special meal are more likely to go for non-American options. Asian, Italian, Spanish, Mexican etc.
Fashion shows in Europe are still the benchmark in the industry.

Way off topic but while America does influence plenty, it also takes inspiration from elsewhere a lot.

Tippex

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I didn't know that. I have no way of watching fox news so was unaware. I used to watch Rt. Abbey Martin was very good. Has some great segments about the United states. That was a long time ago though.

You should have a look at some of the videos of her time at fox and see what she was saying on the channel about the democrats claiming around the votes in the midterms (i think it was) but of an eye opener when compared to her time as press secretary. (Not to mention how anti trump she was previously)

MisterAnarchy

Tell me how wrote: »

Of course he'd have won. He only just lost despite completely mismanaging something that killed more than all military deaths in the last 100 years.

Even with that, if had a shred of competency and just stayed out of things and deferred to the experts, he'd probably have won.

Agreed.
Now you are talking sense

Covid and Donald Trump being Donald Trump cost him the election.
His vote gained among Hispanics, Black and Asian voters which is highly unusual for a Republican President.

But he didn't reassure the older voters with the way he spoke, his demeanour, his reluctance to wear a mask.
The health experts were pushing the country to lockdown and whilst Trumps instinct to question this was right, he unerved and frightened people.
He didnt act in a Presidential way.
He lost the older vote and he lost the election.

The MSM and millions of people over-trivialize the reason why close to 75m people voted for Trump by reciting the tired “they are racists” or "they are stupid" chant.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Just to add to my point about the 100 thousand votes, look at the investigation C4 did around the 16 election and the trump campaign/Cambridge analytica.

The campaign were breaking things down massively to target or to dissuade people from voting.. to think Donnie and the campaign were not playing to the fringe/extreme elements because what we know now (70 million votes) they also knew that the margins for victory were tight and would of targeted key districts in key states to win.

Tell me how

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Agreed.
Now you are talking sense

Covid and Donald Trump being Donald Trump cost him the election.
His vote gained among Hispanics, Black and Asian voters which is highly unusual for a Republican President.

But he didn't reassure the older voters with the way he spoke, his demeanour, his reluctance to wear a mask.
The health experts were pushing the country to lockdown and whilst Trumps instinct to question this was right, he unerved and frightened people.
He didnt act in a Presidential way.
He lost the older vote and he lost the election.

The MSM and millions of people over-trivialize the reason why close to 75m people voted for Trump by reciting the tired “they are racists” or "they are stupid" chant.

Not at all. Anyone who voted for Trump after everything he did last year is entitled to viewed as racist, stupid or both.
He showed he is not fit for, or capable of the office. That is indisputable after the last year.

MeMen2_MoRi_

I can't keep up with the figures.. 70 million, 75 million. The 75 one very much sounds like "the election was stolen" figure

ExMachina1000

Apologies I had to go to the shop.

My point with the spread of American trends and culture is Trump and his high profile talk about America first, nationalism etc has emboldened people who think the same to speak up. This is creating division.

On not talking about the conspiracy theories or violence but the ideas of putting your own country first, rejecting globalisation . We see European countries such as france who have said that the wokeism /cancel culture is a danger to french values, the Danes are sending back immigrants they feel they are not benefiting their society.
There are other examples in various countries but the point being that Trumps presidency has sparked a new wave of counter movement.

I'm not talking about conspiracy nuts or the like.

Normal everyday people. The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't found back in

Tell me how

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Apologies I had to go to the shop.

My point with the spread of American trends and culture is Trump and his high profile talk about America first, nationalism etc has emboldened people who think the same to speak up. This is creating division.

On not talking about the conspiracy theories or violence but the ideas of putting your own country first, rejecting globalisation . We see European countries such as france who have said that the wokeism /cancel culture is a danger to french values, the Danes are sending back immigrants they feel they are not benefiting their society.
There are other examples in various countries but the point being that Trumps presidency has sparked a new wave of counter movement.

I'm not talking about conspiracy nuts or the like.

Normal everyday people. The genie is out of the bottle and he ain't found back in

Which led to an insurrection on the Capitol and a conference last week where the stage was designed to mimic a Nazi symbol.

So, now that you yourself are talking about cause, effect and the impact, don't tell us that we are being dramatic when saying that Trump his ideals, his views and his actions should be called out every step of the way for the danger that exists in letting people think that they are either normal or acceptable.

ExMachina1000

Tell me how wrote: »

Which led to an insurrection on the Capitol and a conference last week where the stage was designed to mimic a Nazi symbol.

So, now that you yourself are talking about cause, effect and the impact, don't tell us that we are being dramatic when saying that Trump his ideals, his views and his actions should be called out every step of the way for the danger that exists in letting people think that they are either normal or acceptable.

Changing of political and social direction is fine, inevitable and welcome.

Breaking into government buildings and anything nazi related isnt.

MeMen2_MoRi_

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Changing of political and social direction is fine, inevitable and welcome.

Breaking into government buildings and anything nazi related isnt.

You are saying this from a point of view you agree with, have defended..

If it was far left politics rising up, you'd be up in arms at it. I don't view myself far left, I know without capitalism socialism can't survive and vice versa. With regards trump, he has sought and fanned the flames of the extremes on the right, in your opinion he doesn't need too 70m votes.

ExMachina1000

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

You are saying this from a point of view you agree with, have defended..

If it was far left politics rising up, you'd be up in arms at it. I don't view myself far left, I know without capitalism socialism can't survive and vice versa. With regards trump, he has sought and fanned the flames of the extremes on the right, in your opinion he doesn't need too 70m votes.

Right. I'm not trying to be rude but what do you mean? What point are you making?

I would say Trump is only the beginning. He has lit the fuse for right wing politics across the globe

Far right extremists ,far left extremists, Islamic extremists etc etc can stay in the gutter. No benefit to anyone

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Right. I'm not trying to be rude but what do you mean? What point are you making?

I would say Trump is only the beginning. He has lit the fuse for right wing politics across the globe

Far right extremists ,far left extremists, Islamic extremists etc etc can stay in the gutter. No benefit to anyone

The thing is you will absolutely downplay the anti muslim, anti immigrant stuff.. Do you think Trump engaged in extremist rhetoric during his presidency?

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The thing is you will absolutely downplay the anti muslim, anti immigrant stuff.. Do you think Trump engaged in extremist rhetoric during his presidency?

Such as?
It was 4 years. It's a lot of tweets and press conferences etc.

He probably did but what politician hasn't been pulled up on remarks made. Plus he wasn't voted in because he had a politically sensitive nature.
Did people think his personality was going to change once he got in the White House?

everlast75

https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1367161864472432646?s=19

ExMachina1000

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Such as?
It was 4 years. It's a lot of tweets and press conferences etc.

He probably did but what politician hasn't been pulled up on remarks made. Plus he wasn't voted in because he had a politically sensitive nature.
Did people think his personality was going to change once he got in the White House?

Egging on an insurrection, the views he expressed about illegal immigrants from Mexico, trying to undermine a democratic election which he continues to do including pushing conspiracy theories. Saying there was good people on both sides in Charlottesville which frankly there was not. Then there's the fact he has avoided condemning groups such as the proud boys or even qanon. Then there's policies such as rolling back discrimination policies. You can say they're mainstream Republican stances but they're frankly extreme. He basically made fringe crazy into mainstream politics.

There's also the fact that he very much so catered to the far right. All those far right groups that have become an issue in recent years. They prospered under Trump.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/26/trump-domestic-extemism-homeland-security-401926

You can say he's anti globalism btw but the nazis were anti globalist.. They also pushed conspiracy theories. Trump basically behaved like an authoritarian leader but thankfully lacked the brains to achieve it, it's telling what leaders he tended to greatly admire... He was extreme when he was elected and he continued to be.

MeMen2_MoRi_

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Right. I'm not trying to be rude but what do you mean? What point are you making?

I would say Trump is only the beginning. He has lit the fuse for right wing politics across the globe

Far right extremists ,far left extremists, Islamic extremists etc etc can stay in the gutter. No benefit to anyone

My point is, if my person or your person, if they go too extreme, just because they are "yours" don't excuse their extreme bullsh!t.. it will lead to a sh!storm. Call them out on it, argue against it with people who are of your own views..

The argument that has been said like forever that things will become an echo chamber, it's the same for bothsides.

I made a very simple retort to your point about 70m people, you stuck your fingers in your ears and wouldn't have any of it when it was the crux of your own point you hold. It's not 70m votes, it's the 100 thousand votes he actually lost by. A person that loves power will sell their soul to anyone that will give a vote to them.

On the grander scheme of things, from these last few years looking in on internal Us politics, the Dems need to grow some serious balls, conservatism is a dying breed in the us, yet they fight tooth and nail to grasp onto power.. 2022 is going to be a nightmare again for the Dems, they'll lose the house because of the fcukery that has gone on since Biden got in and it'll probably snowball if things are checked quickly.

robinph

If you were to design something, such as a stage or a logo, and purely by coincidence it happened that the design of your stage or logo had a bit of a Nazi feel about it, then when someone points it out to you if it was a genuine mistake then you fix it and move along.

BBC News - Amazon changes app logo that 'resembles Adolf Hitler'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56266514

Or if it was entirely intentional all along then you stick your fingers in your ears and pretend not to listen, or claim that you are being discriminated against because you can't offend people anymore or something.

ExMachina1000

robinph wrote: »

If you were to design something, such as a stage or a logo, and purely by coincidence it happened that the design of your stage or logo had a bit of a Nazi feel about it, then when someone points it out to you if it was a genuine mistake then you fix it and move along.

BBC News - Amazon changes app logo that 'resembles Adolf Hitler'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-56266514

Or if it was entirely intentional all along then you stick your fingers in your ears and pretend not to listen, or claim that you are being discriminated against because you can't offend people anymore or something.

The stage was designed by an outside company. Why would they potentially destroy their reputation?

This uproar is false news