Walk slowly in the opposite direction......they will catch up

Mooooo

Three phase can cost as much depending on location, a genny similarly just has to be built in to the project cost

K.G.

Mooooo wrote: »

Three phase can cost as much depending on location, a genny similarly just has to be built in to the project cost

A friend that set up second farm ran for a few months on a generater while a power problem was being sorted said it was cheaper than esb

Bass Reeves

I know a few gas clubs wend down the generator route for power for floodlit pitches where three phase was required. However this was where three phase was required and was only used intermittently. They had coated this against a generator. Standing charge influenced the decision along with initial installation of supply.

An outside farm might be in a similar position where the supply of three phase was a distance away. The ESB charge by distance supply has to come from. A generator for a rotary parlour would require a room/ building for generator. One that size would be a fair noisy and you would want it situated in the right place to suppress noise in the parlour and away from any houses especially if it was used as the supply as opposed to backup

Mooooo

Was on a farm where the generator ran the whole show for 2 years due to esb delays. Yard built in to a hill so easier to sound proof but concrete over head when the the space can be used reduced noise considerably, in machine and generator room. Have to change suppliers yearly to manage esb costs, they don't be long jumping prices yearly

dar31

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Technically yes but it will take s fair belter of a generator to move a rotary parlour around. It's would be a fairly heavy three phase generator. I not b surprise if such a generator costs 50k plus

3 phase tractor driven generator, think its 35kva may be bigger was €3500 +vat 5 yes ago.

Don't think rotary are as power hungry as you think.

Edit 44 kva actually

Hard Knocks

dar31 wrote: »

3 phase tractor driven generator, think its 35kva may be bigger was €3500 +vat 5 yes ago.

Don't think rotary are as power hungry as you think.

Would a small turbine and/or solar with backup battery be an alternative to a generator?

yosemitesam1

dar31 wrote: »

Don't think rotary are as power hungry as you think.

It takes something like 2hp to actually turn the rotary, very little extra energy in the scheme of things

Bass Reeves

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Would a small turbine and/or solar with backup battery be an alternative to a generator?

It would be more expensive than a generator. You have to transform up to three phase. You need a good size battery bank to store enough supply for 2-3 days power. You are still back to a generator if you need backup any more than a smaller generator would do to recharge batteries.

Bass Reeves

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It takes something like 2hp to actually turn the rotary, very little extra energy in the scheme of things

That sounds very little to move about 50 ton minimum I say

yosemitesam1

Bass Reeves wrote: »

That sounds very little to move about 50 ton minimum I say

Ye, I thought the same when a friend who put one in was telling me. But the whole thing is so well balanced and turns so slowly that it is all that it takes

blue5000

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Ye, I thought the same when a friend who put one in was telling me. But the whole thing is so well balanced and turns so slowly that it is all that it takes

I think they float on water?

Bass Reeves

blue5000 wrote: »

I think they float on water?

I am not sure anybody would chance that with 30 ton of dairy cows on it

Mooooo

Some do I think but most are on wheels now afaik. Grasstec had a video on a boumatic one put in and showed a bit of the running gear side.
Would love to put one in but part of affording it would be making the savings on labour and that means more extras on em and that drives the cost skyward

davidk1394

Mooooo wrote: »

Some do I think but most are on wheels now afaik. Grasstec had a video on a boumatic one put in and showed a bit of the running gear side.
Would love to put one in but part of affording it would be making the savings on labour and that means more extras on em and that drives the cost skyward

Depending on what spec they run on plastic or steel wheels. When I was in oz an old alfa rotary came off the track with 50 cows on it. Had to slowly turn it using straps and booming in and out a teleporter.

Gawddawggonnit

blue5000 wrote: »

I think they float on water?

I know a guy that has one that floats on water. Even though I’ve been in his yard several times I’ve no idea about make etc. Those things don’t interest me. He’s sitting in an area that sees regular seismic activity, maybe that’s why he got that one.

Gawddawggonnit

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

It takes something like 2hp to actually turn the rotary, very little extra energy in the scheme of things

A man I know lost his job in 2010 and was at a loose end. He asked me could I source 2nd hand gennies for him to import and sell on. I sourced 6 from 35kva to 135kva and sent them over. I didn’t get paid for 5 or 6yrs because he’d an awful job to sell them because farmers wouldn’t buy them without a grant! (Well that was his explanation anyhow!).

yosemitesam1

Gawddawggonnit wrote: »

A man I know lost his job in 2010 and was at a loose end. He asked me could I source 2nd hand gennies for him to import and sell on. I sourced 6 from 35kva to 135kva and sent them over. I didn’t get paid for 5 or 6yrs because he’d an awful job to sell them because farmers wouldn’t buy them without a grant! (Well that was his explanation anyhow!).

The lad I know with the rotary put it in before quotas went. I think he enjoyed the whole process of buying it more than anything else!

Castlekeeper

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The lad I know with the rotary put it in before quotas went. I think he enjoyed the whole process of buying it more than anything else!

Farmers are as prone to retail therapy as anyone, it's just that some of the toys are expensive!

Mad_maxx

while not a farmer , i did work on a large dairy farm in New Zealand twenty years ago as it was a good way of earning money during a working holiday

i was a herd assistant and worked in the milking shed for four months , six hundred cows , not saying i learned everything or close to it but i made observations none the less

unless the notion of irish dairying hitting the rocks is down to european policy re_ enviromental regs ? , i would not be too concerned as where ireland is today ( large expansion ) , New Zealand was more than twenty years ago

New Zealand has not suffered since then from what i gather so i dont see why irish dairying will either , the efficient guys who know how to manage costs like any other business will thrive , the biggest difference between Ireland and New Zealand from what ive observed is people in New Zealand who often have a backround in completely different sectors , often decide to enter dairying , they bring their experience with them , i suppose thats far less likely to happen here for cultural reasons and the fact that share milking does not exist here but who knows what the future holds and necessity is the mother of all invention as they say ?

doubt the irish government comes down too hard on dairying regardless of what europe says , FG and FF know how important the rural agri vote is and politicians dont ignore votes

awaywithyou

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Technically yes but it will take s fair belter of a generator to move a rotary parlour around. It's would be a fairly heavy three phase generator. I not b surprise if such a generator costs 50k plus

not sure what planet u are inhabiting my friend... 44unit rotary here and i just checked there we have a 75KVA generator.... i think it was 6/7k its a few years ago now.... rotaries arent that hard to turn.... there not supposed to be

Mooooo

awaywithyou wrote: »

not sure what planet u are inhabiting my friend... 44unit rotary here and i just checked there we have a 75KVA generator.... i think it was 6/7k its a few years ago now.... rotaries arent that hard to turn.... there not supposed to be

How ye getting one with the parlour? Realisticly a one person milking operation? Does it take ye long from cups on to fully washed up?

blackbox

Dickie10 wrote: »

i would fear dairy goes the same way as beef , whats to stop another Larry in Dairy buying up a few coops and dairies? i see Kerry selling off shares last week, if these are bought by investment groups surely there sole mission is profit and so cut away at milk price once the supply lines are there lads can turn off the tap they are locked in. Would they just keep prices steady and start chipping away at it then. ? what is there to stop this happening?

Farmers don't have to sell their coops.

Bass Reeves

The door is starting to close

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/mcconalogue-gives-little-away-on-topic-of-capping-herds-amid-dairy-expansion-question/

patsy_mccabe

From an engineering perspective, if a rotary parlour is perfectly balanced and the bearings are perfect, then no energy is needed to turn the thing. In practice only power needed would be to overcome friction.

Mad_maxx

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The door is starting to close

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/mcconalogue-gives-little-away-on-topic-of-capping-herds-amid-dairy-expansion-question/

Sending nice sounds to the environmental lobby, same kind of thing happens with aviation etc

Nothing happens in practice

I live fairly near a bog which is protected and people aren't supposed to cut turf on , in reality , even the guards merely go through the motions and ignore those who cut

Mad_maxx

Jjameson wrote: »

And rightly so. It’s traditional, cultural and good logical swop to a bag o columbian that was brought here with diesel fuel.

oh i wasnt having a go , i take turf off the same bog myself

came with the house

tanko

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The door is starting to close

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/mcconalogue-gives-little-away-on-topic-of-capping-herds-amid-dairy-expansion-question/

That article doesn't say anything, it's just a load of waffle.

patsy_mccabe

Ireland has the lowest emissions in Europe when it comes to dairying. Why would you restrict dairying in Ireland and increase it somewhere else where the carbon footprint is higher.

Grueller

Look, it will come down to whether you have the land available or not. I have 55ish hectares owned. Build a summer parlour on the outfarm and all of that is a grazing platform.
55 x 3.5 (mooted stocking rate per ha on grazing platform) = 192.5 cows.
A savage amount of dairy farms around here have significant out farms. The boom would continue for parlour manufacturers.

awaywithyou

Mooooo wrote: »

How ye getting one with the parlour? Realisticly a one person milking operation? Does it take ye long from cups on to fully washed up?

gwetting on very good... milking nearly 6 years now.... not one person as second person required for teat spraying.... must get around to putting in the TSR by delaval... then it will be one person no problem.... about an hr and a half to get it all done.... very easy milk heifers on it... cows really enjoy the spin around.... most important part of the whole machine is the track and rollers... the rest of it is the same as a herringbone.... Track and rollers have to be spot on... we were able to spin ours manually when it was ready to go.... as another poster has said.. the hardest part is getting it turning.. once it starts to move it requires little enuf energy even with 44cows up on it

Tonynewholland

tanko wrote: »

That article doesn't say anything, it's just a load of waffle.

The government have been putting plenty money into dairy here anyone who thinks they will pull the rug from under farmers now are living in dream land.
Exporting slurry to tillage areas and a few weeks extra storage probably will be implemented at some point

Siamsa Sessions

Tonynewholland wrote: »

The government have been putting plenty money into dairy here anyone who thinks they will pull the rug from under farmers now are living in dream land.
Exporting slurry to tillage areas and a few weeks extra storage probably will be implemented at some point

We could very well see wink-wink-nudge-nudge “restrictions” coming in. It’ll be more paperwork and stress for lads but as you said, given how much the Government have invested in TAMS and in supporting Teagasc’s dairy work, then that same Government will not want to reduce dairy exports or the revenue it generates.

There might be lots of huffing and puffing, and shaking their heads at water quality issues, but once the lip service has been paid and they’re behind their own closed doors again, the Government will just shrug their shoulders.

K.G.

Could we see a day where it would be an offence to have to high fertility in soil samples

yosemitesam1

K.G. wrote: »

Could we see a day where it would be an offence to have to high fertility in soil samples

The problem there is that soil samples aren't actually anywhere near perfect and could in a lot of cases be questioned. But they would be fine for imposing fertiliser limits

Say my name

K.G. wrote: »

Could we see a day where it would be an offence to have to high fertility in soil samples

I'd hope not. Some of the top regenerative farmers have soil humming along of it's own accord producing it's own nitrogen (and phosphorus).
How do you penalize those for going to that extent to get their soils in that order when all they did was maintain output while reducing input and capturing more soil carbon?
Comparing those to those that rely on everything from the bag and bought in would be like comparing apples to oranges.

Even natural soil types. I'm high in potash. Not from the bag.
Someone in east Wicklow would be high in phosphorus. Not from the bag either.

The only thing missing is understanding natural soil nitrogen. Which is sorely missing in this country.
Deliberately I'm guessing.

Birdnuts

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Ireland has the lowest emissions in Europe when it comes to dairying. Why would you restrict dairying in Ireland and increase it somewhere else where the carbon footprint is higher.

Needs to clean up its act on water quality and related issues though. If it gets tagged with the "Dirty Dairy" rep like the NZ industry, it will be very hard to recover that reputation and may even compromise sales into certain markets

Birdnuts

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

We could very well see wink-wink-nudge-nudge “restrictions” coming in. It’ll be more paperwork and stress for lads but as you said, given how much the Government have invested in TAMS and in supporting Teagasc’s dairy work, then that same Government will not want to reduce dairy exports or the revenue it generates.

There might be lots of huffing and puffing, and shaking their heads at water quality issues, but once the lip service has been paid and they’re behind their own closed doors again, the Government will just shrug their shoulders.

Yes - But they can only BS and Bluster for so long until the EU takes a case and they end with up their hand being forced on the issue like what happened in Holland a while back.

wrangler

Birdnuts wrote: »

Yes - But they can only BS and Bluster for so long until the EU takes a case and they end with up their hand being forced on the issue like what happened in Holland a while back.

We're a long way off hollands problems,
When they force the towns and cities to tidy their act and force Bord na mona to take the 10ft of peat outa the shannon,........ then farmers should worry.

charolais0153

wrangler wrote: »

We're a long way off hollands problems,
When they force the towns and cities to tidy their act and force Bord na mona to take the 10ft of peat outa the shannon,........ then farmers should worry.

Farmers a lot easier to police

dh1985

I seen on the news during the week that carbon emissions had dropped by 6% last year. This was a year when large parts of the economy were shut from March to June,.no school travel from march, significant numbers working from home, electricity generation ceasing using peat power etc. The target was 7% under some of the climate agreements I think. And 7% this year and next and so on. If farmers think they are getting away with the nod and wink they are in for a rude awakening. All sectors of the economy will come under pressure. And as that article alluded getting more efficient and still increasing numbers wont cut it

Say my name

All sectors won't come under pressure are you joking.

When the lockdown is over irish people will be off on their holiers to the farthest flung places on earth.

If you want to make impact, link it to the individual and what they do whether they save or spend carbon.
Obsolving the individuals responsibility to a vague government responsibility achieves nothing and lets the high well to do high carbon spenders off the hook to continue spending carbon.

Birdnuts

wrangler wrote: »

We're a long way off hollands problems,
When they force the towns and cities to tidy their act and force Bord na mona to take the 10ft of peat outa the shannon,........ then farmers should worry.

Irish water have said that will be spending a couple of Billion euros on bringing all the sewage treatment plants up to "A" standard within 5 years and according to them the government has already signed off on that spend and submitted it to the EU who was putting pressure on them under the Water directive. As for BNM, atm they may feel like they are a law onto themselves but there is a number of cases before the High Court atm regarding their (mis)management of harvested bogs in the Shannon Catchment that will more than likely see them sanctioned by the ECJ and have them humming a different tune in the years ahead. At the end of the day its been successive governments dragging their ar$e on all these issues that has brought us to this point but finally looks like they are about to run out of road with the BS and Bluster.

Tonynewholland

Birdnuts wrote: »

Irish water have said that will be spending a couple of Billion euros on bringing all the sewage treatment plants up to "A" standard within 5 years and according to them the government has already signed off on that spend and submitted it to the EU who was putting pressure on them under the Water directive. As for BNM, atm they may feel like they are a law onto themselves but there is a number of cases before the High Court atm regarding their (mis)management of harvested bogs in the Shannon Catchment that will more than likely see them sanctioned by the ECJ and have them humming a different tune in the years ahead. At the end of the day its been successive governments dragging their ar$e on all these issues that has brought us to this point but finally looks like they are about to run out of road with the BS and Bluster.

There is no way Irish water will do all that in 5 years.

Birdnuts

Tonynewholland wrote: »

There is no way Irish water will do all that in 5 years.

Well they've kicked off big time near my parents place in North Kildare with a massive upgrade of the Osberstown treatment plant that serves a big chunk of that region. ATM they seem to be prioritizing plants discharging to freshwater as that appears to be were pollution problems are most severe/urgent according to the latest EPA report.

wrangler

Tonynewholland wrote: »

There is no way Irish water will do all that in 5 years.

Nor any of the public service either, scandalous the way they won't control the flooding.

dh1985

Say my name wrote: »

All sectors won't come under pressure are you joking.

When the lockdown is over irish people will be off on their holiers to the farthest flung places on earth.

If you want to make impact, link it to the individual and what they do whether they save or spend carbon.
Obsolving the individuals responsibility to a vague government responsibility achieves nothing and lets the high well to do high carbon spenders off the hook to continue spending carbon.

That might be option. Add 50% tax to the price of flights might disincentivise air travel. This would also mean adding say 20% to the cost of a litre of milk or 2euro to a steak. Agriculture accounts for one third of carbon emissions in ireland. We can argue that food produced here is more enviromentally friendly than in the Amazon or wherever but policy makers wont care. Unfortunately agriculture doesn't hold the same importance as it once did in this country and I cant see any government turning a blind eye to agri. Political parties in this country are more interested in what's happening inside the m50 and other large urban centres than outside.

Grueller

dh1985 wrote: »

That might be option. Add 50% tax to the price of flights might disincentivise air travel. This would also mean adding say 20% to the cost of a litre of milk or 2euro to a steak. Agriculture accounts for one third of carbon emissions in ireland. We can argue that food produced here is more enviromentally friendly than in the Amazon or wherever but policy makers wont care. Unfortunately agriculture doesn't hold the same importance as it once did in this country and I cant see any government turning a blind eye to agri. Political parties in this country are more interested in what's happening inside the m50 and other large urban centres than outside.

China et al are striving with all of their being for food security while we do our best to abandon it.

Bass Reeves

Grueller wrote: »

Look, it will come down to whether you have the land available or not. I have 55ish hectares owned. Build a summer parlour on the outfarm and all of that is a grazing platform.
55 x 3.5 (mooted stocking rate per ha on grazing platform) = 192.5 cows.
A savage amount of dairy farms around here have significant out farms. The boom would continue for parlour manufacturers.

You misunderstand the concept. Since quota's ceased any time any limitations were put on expansion dairy farmers rented more land to solve nitrates issues. While they have obeyed the 250 kgsN/ HA the number of cows on milking platforms have remained the same or increased. Look at the reaction to the increase is of dairy cows to 89 kgs of N. Rent more land.

Milking platform limitations will be exactly that. At 3.5 cows / HA that is equivalent to 350kgs N/ HA. The limit will be on the milking platform. In you case the limit be to which the ever platform you choose. To carry on any higher stocking rate if it is allowed will mean cows will have to be housed. This may mean housing part of the herd or maybe housing at night. The slurry will have to be exported off the platform to external ground. Essentially this will probably mean that it will not be economical to exceed stocking rate.

It was interesting that last year we heard that the eye in the sky would be used to monitor GLAS schemes such as low input pasture and traditional meadow for compliance with rules. Modern satellite camera technology would be able to count the cows in a paddock.

Say my name

dh1985 wrote: »

That might be option. Add 50% tax to the price of flights might disincentivise air travel. This would also mean adding say 20% to the cost of a litre of milk or 2euro to a steak. Agriculture accounts for one third of carbon emissions in ireland. We can argue that food produced here is more enviromentally friendly than in the Amazon or wherever but policy makers wont care. Unfortunately agriculture doesn't hold the same importance as it once did in this country and I cant see any government turning a blind eye to agri. Political parties in this country are more interested in what's happening inside the m50 and other large urban centres than outside.

Why add a carbon tax on milk or steak?

Microsoft this week paid over $500,000 to an Australian cattle station in exchange to use their carbon credit of 40,000 tons of sequestered carbon.

In this country non farmers beliger farmers for carbon usage on faulty accounting figures that will continue to be used for years while ignoring soil sequestration through grazing. Farmers never got a fair deal in the first place.

The rest of the world gets on with their business looks at the science, looks at the carbon, looks to see how it can be improved on, educates those who can make a change.
What happens here?
Cows bad. Beef bad. Farmers bad.
All the while they're booking their holidays to Cairo or Abu Dhabi.

New Zealand proclaims they're the most carbon neutral dairy farmers in the world and the Irish non farmers here attack them for it.
Same in Europe. Ireland and Austria are the most carbon neutral in milk production and they are castigated for it.
You can't win with the Irish.
Unfortunately it's the Irish non farmers are among the highest carbon users in the world and I say non farmers as farming is THE ONLY industry in the world that can sequester carbon with the bonus of providing sustenance for the human race.

Grueller

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You misunderstand the concept. Since quota's ceased any time any limitations were put on expansion dairy farmers rented more land to solve nitrates issues. While they have obeyed the 250 kgsN/ HA the number of cows on milking platforms have remained the same or increased. Look at the reaction to the increase is of dairy cows to 89 kgs of N. Rent more land.

Milking platform limitations will be exactly that. At 3.5 cows / HA that is equivalent to 350kgs N/ HA. The limit will be on the milking platform. In you case the limit be to which the ever platform you choose. To carry on any higher stocking rate if it is allowed will mean cows will have to be housed. This may mean housing part of the herd or maybe housing at night. The slurry will have to be exported off the platform to external ground. Essentially this will probably mean that it will not be economical to exceed stocking rate.

It was interesting that last year we heard that the eye in the sky would be used to monitor GLAS schemes such as low input pasture and traditional meadow for compliance with rules. Modern satellite camera technology would be able to count the cows in a paddock.

Dont misunderstand the concept. By having a parlour on an out block it is also part of your milking platform. A milking platform is ground cows can graze while in milk.