Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

Quin_Dub

Bottom line - The US Police kill an awful lot of people.

~1150 people killed by Police Officers in 2019

As a Comparison , the Police Forces of Europe combined killed a total of 56 , with France accounting for 26 of those.

The Deaths per million rate for the US is 348 deaths , France which accounts for almost half the police deaths in Europe has a rate almost 10 times lower at 38 per million.

The rate per Million for the whole of Europe is somewhere in the mid teens or about 20 times lower than the US

Training and in a lot of cases the extreme lack thereof is a MASSIVE problem in the US.

What is it about Police behaviour that leads them to kill suspects at such inflated rates?

Are US criminals just that more violent?

Clearly the widespread availability of guns plays a significant part , but that can't be the only reason.

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, this thread is pages long. I can’t recall you providing me, specifically with any facts/figures/stats. If you did, thanks. I must have missed the links. Can you point me to the post, please.

This is data from California, it's 97 pages long so I haven't read it all but I'll post some of the data below...

95.3 percent of stops were officer-initiated, while 4.7 percent of stops were in response to a call for service, radio call, or dispatch.

Individuals perceived to be Hispanic (39.8%), White (33.2%), or Black (15.2%) comprised the majority of stopped individuals.

The most commonly reported reason for a stop across all racial/ethnic groups was traffic violations, followed by reasonable suspicion. A higher percentage of Black individuals were stopped for reasonable suspicion than any other racial identity group.

Black individuals represented a higher proportion of stopped individuals than their relative proportion of the population in both benchmark datasets.

The veil of darkness (VOD) method is a third benchmarking method used this year. The VOD analysis compares the proportion of individuals stopped during daylight hours to the proportion of individuals stopped when it is dark outside during the intertwilight period, i.e., the time of day that is dark during Standard Time, but light during Daylight Savings Time. Having a higher proportion of stops of individuals of a particular racial or ethnic group occur in the light, compared to White individuals, may be considered evidence of bias towards that group. The VOD analysis of this year’s data indicated disparities in stops during light hours vs. dark hours for some racial and ethnic identity groups. For example, individuals perceived to be Pacific Islander or Multiracial had a higher proportion of their stops occur during light hours than individuals perceived to be White.

Officers searched Black individuals at a rate 2.9 times the rate at which they searched Whiteindividuals (18.7% vs. 6.5%).

Search yield rate analyses showed that, when officers searched individuals, contraband or evidence was generally found on White individuals at higher rates than individuals from all other groups.

When examining search yield rates by the presumed level of discretion available to the officer in deciding to conduct a search, yield rates for racial/ethnic groups of color were lower than for White individuals for higher-discretion searches, i.e., searches for which the only basis for search was “consent given.”


60.3 percent of all individuals stopped were issued a citation and/or arrested. Native American and Black individuals had the highest arrest rates and the lowest rates of citation. Middle Eastern/South Asian and Asian individuals had the highest citation rates and the lowest arrest rates.

(My bold)

And you claim police don't target colours?

Source

biko

Overheal wrote: »

So they would say.

You're getting well off the point though: admission that slave labor is a systemic part of our criminal justice system.

You actually claimed systemic racism existed today in the form of punishment for crime.

It does not. Penal labour is time limited involuntary servitude and not geared towards one race over another.
Involuntary servitude is not slavery (that's why both phrases show in the amendment and not just the word slavery).

By the way, it's not "our" criminal justice system You may be in US, but the rest of us are in Ireland.
Our system banned penal labour 23 years ago. Our neighbour UK banned it in the 50s.
The US need to catch up. Maybe chat to Kamala about abolishing it altogether?

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

This is data from California, it's 97 pages long so I haven't read it all but I'll post some of the data below...




(My bold)

And you claim police don't target colours?

Source

They target people.

And if people arouse their suspicion they will be challenged/stopped/targeted..

Simple..

Just because certain colors are stopped more...that is nothing but a statistic.

It does not at all show/prove/demonstrate systemic racism..

The cops are not selecting colors. They are selecting people/behaviours...

ohnonotgmail

walshb wrote: »

They target people.

And if people arouse their suspicion they will be challenged/stopped/targeted..

Simple..

Just because certain colors are stopped more...that is nothing but a statistic.

It does not at all show/prove/demonstrate systemic racism..

The cops are not selecting colors. They are selecting people/behaviours...

assume what you say is true, it isn't but for the sake of argument, how do explain the different level sanctions applied to different races?

biko

Has Kamala the border czar even visited the border yet?

The answer is of course no.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Just because certain colors are stopped more...that is nothing but a statistic.

Oof. Well, thank you for letting me know that there is no point in continuing the discussion with you.

In relevant thread news, Biden is set to officially recognize the Armenian genocide.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/biden-armenia-genocide-turkey.html

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

They target people.

And if people arouse their suspicion they will be challenged/stopped/targeted..

Simple..

Just because certain colors are stopped more...that is nothing but a statistic.

It does not at all show/prove/demonstrate systemic racism..

The cops are not selecting colors. They are selecting people/behaviours...

Nah, it's racism but you're obviously determined not to see that.

That's cool. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

Did any of ye see psaki being asked yesterday how Biden felt about systemic racism seeing as he was one of the primary architects of it with his crime bills?..

(According to Cornell West apparently..)

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

Nah, it's racism but you're obviously determined not to see that.

That's cool. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

Stopping black people in the course of doing your job is racism?

And just because black people are stopped more as a percentage comparison...

Does black cops stopping black people get factored in with all these systemic stats and figures..?

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Does black cops stopping black people get factored in with all these systemic stats and figures..?

Is this your way of telling us that you are ignoring all of the links that have been provided?

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

Stopping black people in the course of doing your job is racism..

And just because black people are stopped more as a percentage comparison...

Does black cops stopping black people get factored in with all these systemic stats and figures..?

Stopping people for no reason other than the colour of their skin is racism and this is what happens in California.

More likely to be stopped, less likely to have committed a traffic violation, more likely to be searched and less likely to cited or arrested. That's racism.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

Is this your way of telling us that you are ignoring all of the links that have been provided?

You never sent me all these links..

Anyway, it’s a yes/no. Does the color of the officer(s) get mentioned in the links regarding cops and their carrying out their duties?

Circa 10-12 percent the force are black..

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

Stopping people for no reason other than the colour of their skin is racism and this is what happens in California.

More likely to be stopped, less likely to have committed a traffic violation, more likely to be searched and less likely to cited or arrested. That's racism.

Oh, I see. And you have all this data and proof that the ONLY reason for a lot of these stops was the cops saying “black person, must stop/challenge.”

No chance that the cops had any other reason other than color?

So, how is all this clear racism being allowed?

Are the cops breaking the law every time they stop a black persons only because he/she is black? You seem to know this is happening.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

You never sent me all these links..

Anyway, it’s a yes/no. Does the color of the officer(s) get mentioned in the links regarding coos and their carrying out their duties?

Circa 10-12 percent the force are black..

I told you that I provided a link to a study this morning. You can read it and then get back to us instead of assuming that it doesn't because you don't want it to.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

I told you that I provided a link to a study this morning. You can read it and then get back to us instead of assuming that it doesn't because you don't want it to.

You have obviously read the link(s)

I will try later today..

Can you answer my question? Is the color of the officers mentioned/referenced regarding their carrying out their duties?

ohnonotgmail

walshb wrote: »

You have obviously read the link(s)

I will try later today..

Can you answer my question? Is the color of the officers mentioned/referenced regarding their carrying out their duties?

perhaps read the link and then comment. Otherwise it looks like you have made your mind up and it is a waste of time discussing anything with you.

walshb

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

perhaps read the link and then comment. Otherwise it looks like you have made your mind up and it is a waste of time discussing anything with you.

I will.

I am asking the poster one single question..

I see no reason for not answer. It’s a yes/no answer.

If the poster does not answer: I think it’s safe to assume that officers color is not factored/referenced here..

walshb

walshb wrote: »

You have obviously read the link(s)

I will try later today..

Can you answer my question? Is the color of the officers mentioned/referenced regarding their carrying out their duties?

The more times you ask that question, the more obvious it becomes that you have no interest in finding out if your opinion is right or wrong, only that you want to read stuff that shows that your opinion is right.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

The more times you ask that question, the more obvious it becomes that you have no interest in finding out if your opinion is right or wrong, only that you want to read stuff that shows that your opinion is right.

Fine.

Answer is no...

No idea why you withheld this...

It’s a yes/no....wouldn’t have hurt to simply answer me on it..

And opinions are a lot of the time neither right nor wrong..

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Fine.

Answer is no...

More confirmation bias. I have not answered your question and you have assumed the answer is the one you want to hear.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

More confirmation bias. I have not answered your question and you have assumed the answer is the one you want to hear.

Silly games really.

Why you won’t answer one single query from me is odd..

I won’t discount the articles based off a yes/no to the question..

It comes across to me that a no answer somehow has you feeling on the defensive...and that is not my intention ..

Chat later..

Professor Moriarty

walshb wrote: »

Stopping black people in the course of doing your job is racism?

And just because black people are stopped more as a percentage comparison...

Does black cops stopping black people get factored in with all these systemic stats and figures..?

If black people are more likely to die from homicide, be in jail and be "stopped more as a percentage comparison", who or what is responsible for this?

weisses

walshb wrote: »

Oh, I see. And you have all this data and proof that the ONLY reason for a lot of these stops was the cops saying “black person, must stop/challenge.”

No chance that the cops had any other reason other than color?

So, how is all this clear racism being allowed?

Are the cops breaking the law every time they stop a black persons only because he/she is black? You seem to know this is happening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OmKetp_F9s&ab_channel=CBCNews%3ATheNational

I suggest you educate yourself a bit more on the subject of systemic racism and racial profiling.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Silly games really.

Why you won’t answer one single query from me is odd..

I won’t discount the articles based off a yes/no to the question..

It comes across to me that a no answer somehow has you feeling on the defensive...and that is not my intention ..

Because you're not going to read the paper regardless of the answer.

And, more importantly, the point you think you are making is not a point at all.

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

Oh, I see. And you have all this data and proof that the ONLY reason for a lot of these stops was the cops saying “black person, must stop/challenge.”

No chance that the cops had any other reason other than color?

So, how is all this clear racism being allowed?

Are the cops breaking the law every time they stop a black persons only because he/she is black? You seem to know this is happening.

A lot of strawmen there so I’m not going to reply to to questions on things I never claimed.

walshb

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

If black people are more likely to die from homicide, be in jail and be "stopped more as a percentage comparison", who or what is responsible for this?

I’d say there are several factors to bring about what you describe here..

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

A lot of strawmen there so I’m not going to reply to to questions on things I never claimed.

You said stopping people for nothing but their skin color is racism..

I wondered how you knew that this was happening/verified: how you knew that these stops were only performed because of the skin color..

You haven’t shown me why..

Nothing at all to do with strawman..

Professor Moriarty

walshb wrote: »

I’d say there are several factors to bring about what you describe here..

Sure. Care to suggest a few?

walshb

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sure. Care to suggest a few?

No.

No idea why you are asking me this..

You name a few..

Am I right that you want to paint a narrative that it’s down to racist cops, systemic police racism?

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

You said stopping people for nothing but their skin color is racism..

I wondered how you knew that this was happening/verified: how you knew that these stops were only performed because of the skin color..

You haven’t shown me why..

Nothing at all to do with strawman..

Ah, OK fair enough I did.

Then the answer to that question is yes. That is included in the study and people are stopped based on the colour of their skin.

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

Ah, OK fair enough I did.

Then the answer to that question is yes. That is included in the study and people are stopped based on the colour of their skin.

Can you share this study, please?

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

Can you share this study, please?

Already have.

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

Already have.

To me?

What post number is it?

Ok, post 5813....

weisses

walshb wrote: »

Am I right that you want to paint a narrative that it’s down to racist cops, systemic police racism?

https://abc7news.com/oakland-police-opd-racial-profiling-traffic-stops/6414305/

I can do this all day

Black men were eight times more likely to be stopped by police than White men and three times more likely to be stopped than Hispanic men

Cody montana

biko wrote: »

Has Kamala the border czar even visited the border yet?

The answer is of course no.

Don’t know, think the border with Canada is closed?
Maybe she doesn’t have time for a photo opportunity.

BanditLuke

weisses wrote: »

https://abc7news.com/oakland-police-opd-racial-profiling-traffic-stops/6414305/

I can do this all day

Black lives only seem to matter when it's white people killing blacks. Black on black crime which a massive problem in America is largely ignored.

Black people need to have an honest conversation with themselves about the ridiculous amount of homicides within their own communities and stop acting like the world owes them a favour.

If black lives matter they have to matter ALL the time.

everlast75

BanditLuke wrote: »

Black lives only seem to matter when it's white people killing blacks. Black on black crime which a massive problem in America is largely ignored.

Black people need to have an honest conversation with themselves about the ridiculous amount of homicides within their own communities and stop acting like the world owes them a favour.

If black lives matter they have to matter ALL the time.

So, why are you piping in, as a white man, if that's a conversation they need to have amongst themselves?

Oh... that's right. It's because you feel uncomfortable when white people being racist are called out on it.

Now, why on earth would *you* feel uncomfortable about that?

WrenBoy

everlast75 wrote: »

So, why are you piping in, as a white man, if that's a conversation they need to have amongst themselves?

Oh... that's right. It's because you feel uncomfortable when white people being racist are called out on it.

Now, why on earth would *you* feel uncomfortable about that?

All yts are racist everlast, All of them.

Professor Moriarty

walshb wrote: »

No.

No idea why you are asking me this..

You name a few..

Am I right that you want to paint a narrative that it’s down to racist cops, systemic police racism?

So you talk about racism but have no opinion as to why it exists. Okie dokie.

walshb

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So you talk about racism but have no opinion as to why it exists. Okie dokie.

I have no idea what you’re talking about..

Your last few posts..

Professor Moriarty

walshb wrote: »

I have no idea what you’re talking about..

Your last few posts..

You don't understand? No problem.

Professor Moriarty

BanditLuke wrote: »

Black lives only seem to matter when it's white people killing blacks. Black on black crime which a massive problem in America is largely ignored.

Black people need to have an honest conversation with themselves about the ridiculous amount of homicides within their own communities and stop acting like the world owes them a favour.

If black lives matter they have to matter ALL the time.

Why does this happen in your opinion?

Yeah_Right

BanditLuke wrote: »

Black lives only seem to matter when it's white people killing blacks. Black on black crime which a massive problem in America is largely ignored.

Black people need to have an honest conversation with themselves about the ridiculous amount of homicides within their own communities and stop acting like the world owes them a favour.

If black lives matter they have to matter ALL the time.

You are right. There is a massive problem of black on black violent crime. It needs to be looked at and fixed. And a lot of that has to come from within the black community.

That does not mean that there is no issue with systemic racism and racial inequality. The fact that black people are over represented in numerous negative statistics around crime, health, education, wealth etc are all contributing factors to the rate at which black men are killing each other.

walshb

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

You don't understand? No problem.

I understand this thread and its discussion:

just not your out of the blue vague question..

Anyway, we’ll move on..

Professor Moriarty

walshb wrote: »

I understand this thread and its discussion:

just not your out of the blue vague question..

Anyway, we’ll move on..

Allow me to define. Thinking about the fact that more black people are jailed and murdered in the US than white people, is it because that's what black people do?

walshb

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Allow me to define. Thinking about the fact that more black people are jailed and murdered in the US than white people, is it because that's what black people do?

Black people commit crime.
White people commit crime
All colors of people commit crime.

People commit crime. Such is life.

All people are jailed/dealt with if that is the judiciary’s position..

Professor Moriarty

walshb wrote: »

Black people commit crime.
While people commit crime
All colors of people commit crime.

People commit crime. Such is life.

All people are jailed/dealt with if that is the judiciary’s position..

Oh right. I'd hate to disturb such an eloquently simple understanding of American society, so I'll leave it with you.

Professor Moriarty

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Oh right. I'd hate to disturb such an eloquently simple understanding of American society, so I'll leave it with you.

Hahaha..

walshb

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Oh right. I'd hate to disturb such an eloquently simple understanding of American society, so I'll leave it with you.

Yes. It really is that simple..

You are simply digging too deep. With no need to.