Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

eagle eye

duploelabs wrote:

If you think that saying there's nothing in North America before the Europeans landed (or words to that affect) is not racist, then you really need to look in to the reasons why you're wrong

I thought he said there was no history, no organisation.
It was an opinion on history from the comments I seen.
There did seem to be a suggestion that native Indians are a lesser people though which is racist.

duploelabs

eagle eye wrote: »

What were they?

“We birthed a nation from nothing. I mean, there was nothing here,” Santorum told students during remarks at a Young America’s Foundation event. “I mean, yes, we have Native Americans, but candidly, there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture.”

https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_60a92fa6e4b0313547978140

Smee_Again

Smee_Again wrote: »

I’m not sure that you do.

But that’s fine, CNN and it’s anchors were smart enough to see his comments for that they were.

Well you can be sure that I am. As I said, cancel culture once again exhibited by progressives rears it's ugly head. The days of this being a phenomenon of the religious right are long gone. Tis a pity what left wing politics has rurned into over there, and I hope it's seeping into Irish politics stops.

Tell me how

WhomadeGod wrote: »

Democratic posters deny that cancel culture exists.

Yet keep posting examples of cancel culture

Can you describe 'cancel culture' in your own words?

I'm just trying to understand the split between the supposed ingrained belief amongst conservatives on the importance of Law and Order and the frustration they then express when anyone conservative is held accountable for their own words and actions.

duploelabs

Hhhhh wrote: »

Well you can be sure that I am. As I said, cancel culture once again exhibited by progressives rears it's ugly head. The days of this being a phenomenon of the religious right are long gone. Tis a pity what left wing politics has rurned into over there, and I hope it's seeping into Irish politics stops.

Explain what is cancel culture

duploelabs

eagle eye wrote: »

That's an opinion on history, what is wrong with that?

He literally said there's nothing there before the Europeans landed. Do you agree with this statement?

eagle eye

duploelabs wrote:

“We birthed a nation from nothing. I mean, there was nothing here,†Santorum told students during remarks at a Young America’s Foundation event. “I mean, yes, we have Native Americans, but candidly, there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture.â€

That's an opinion on history and population, what is wrong with that?
Native Americans make up only 1.6% of the population of the US.

salmocab

WhomadeGod wrote: »

Democratic posters deny that cancel culture exists.

Yet keep posting examples of cancel culture

Would you say Liz Cheney was cancelled?
It’s a phrase used to label decisions people don’t agree with. People have always lost their jobs for giving different opinions the only difference is now people label it when it suits.

duploelabs

duploelabs wrote: »

Explain what is cancel culture

No. I'm not your teacher. If you what to pretend it doesn't exist well then you are free to. If you don't know what it is then do some basic research.

duploelabs

Hhhhh wrote: »

No. I'm not your teacher. If you what to pretend it doesn't exist well then you are free to. If you don't know what it is then do some basic research.

Oh 'do your own research' line is really not a firm method of definition as it leads to a bias-led conclusion, that's why I asked you what you define as Cancel Culture

Tell me how

Hhhhh wrote: »

No. I'm not your teacher. If you what to pretend it doesn't exist well then you are free to. If you don't know what it is then do some basic research.

BS.
As expected.

Wah wah wah from conservatives without a hint of introspection.

eagle eye

duploelabs wrote:

He literally said there's nothing there before the Europeans landed. Do you agree with this statement?

You have to take it in context. I'm sure his meaning is there were no buildings, trade etc.

duploelabs

eagle eye wrote: »

You have to take it in context. I'm sure his meaning is there were no buildings, trade etc.

The context is right there on the article

Smee_Again

eagle eye wrote: »

What were they?

Racist. Plain and simple.

eagle eye wrote: »

You have to take it in context. I'm sure his meaning is there were no buildings, trade etc.

He was given the opportunity to explain or expand on his statement and he just repeated what he said.

In one fell swoop he dismissed the histories of Native Americans, and the suffering, marginalising, killings, etc they experienced at the hands of the state.

but candidly there isn’t much Native American culture in American culture.

How could there be? The US state did their best to cancel entire Native American tribes over 100’s of years.

K.Flyer

eagle eye wrote: »

That's an opinion on history and population, what is wrong with that?
Native Americans make up only 1.6% of the population of the US.

There was a time that they made up almost 100% of the population. But due to invaders bringing their diseases that natives had no immunity to, coupled with the enslavement, murders and genocide of the native population those numbers were greatly depleted down to current figures.
Their lands were stolen from them, they were murdered or enslaved, but they fought back.
His comments at best were uneducated and disrespectful with disregard for a race that was almost wiped out by his predecessors attitude.

Overheal

eagle eye wrote: »

You have to take it in context. I'm sure his meaning is there were no buildings, trade etc.

You don’t think native Americans had buildings or conducted trade?

eagle eye

Overheal wrote:

You don’t think native Americans had buildings or conducted trade?

Have you any books on what they did before Europeans arrived?

eagle eye

Smee_Again wrote:

Racist. Plain and simple.

Nothing racist in what was posted in this thread.
I said in my first post on the subject that there's a racist suggestion in what he said but he didn't actually say anything racist.
This is like what you see on Twitter where a quote is taken completely out of context and they scream racism, homophobia etc.

And with the amount of Twitter links posted in here it's not surprising that we are seeing it here.

Christy42

eagle eye wrote: »

You have to take it in context. I'm sure his meaning is there were no buildings, trade etc.

Why do republicans always need a translation into English? That is very much not what he said. Why are they incapable of saying what people think they mean? We saw it repeatedly with Trump and continue on here to explain other people being utter scum.

Smee_Again

eagle eye wrote: »

Nothing racist in what was posted in this thread.
I said in my first post on the subject that there's a racist suggestion in what he said but he didn't actually say anything racist.
This is like what you see on Twitter where a quote is taken completely out of context and they scream racism, homophobia etc.

And with the amount of Twitter links posted in here it's not surprising that we are seeing it here.

We all know you’ve a very high tolerance for what is or isn’t racist.

eagle eye

Christy42 wrote:

Why do republicans always need a translation into English? That is very much not what he said. Why are they incapable of saying what people think they mean? We saw it repeatedly with Trump and continue on here to explain other people being utter scum.

I'm not a Republican, I've always supported the Democrats.

Overheal

eagle eye wrote: »

Have you any books on what they did before Europeans arrived?

Right next to my binders full of women?

Like do the books need to be on my shelf right now or do you want a store link if so https://www.amazon.com/Wigwams-Longhouses-American-Dwellings-Coloring/dp/0486433277

https://www.amazon.com/Native-American-Landmarks-Festivals-Indigenous/dp/1578596416

https://www.amazon.com/Listening-Our-Ancestors-Pacific-Northwest/dp/0792241908

https://www.amazon.com/Indian-Slave-Trade-American-1670-1717/dp/0300101937

Like, art, architecture and culture. Of course it existed before we wiped nearly all of it out. Santorums comments are a whitewash.

eagle eye

Smee_Again wrote:

We all know you’ve a very high tolerance for what is or isn’t racist.

I actually don't. I just always remain calm and consider things.
I brought a black friend to a bar in Boston where I drank regularly and a guy, 3rd gen American who called himself Irish, told me 'we don't hang out with those guys'. I told him he wasn't Irish and shouldn't call himself Irish because we don't treat anybody differently.
That was racism and I won't stand for it.

duploelabs

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not a Republican, I've always supported the Democrats.

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAA


Jesus, i needed that

Smee_Again

eagle eye wrote: »

I actually don't. I just always remain calm and consider things.
I brought a black friend to a bar in Boston where I drank regularly and a guy, 3rd gen American who called himself Irish, told me 'we don't hang out with those guys'. I told him he wasn't Irish and shouldn't call himself Irish because we don't treat anybody differently.
That was racism and I won't stand for it.

Why do you always describe the ethnicity of your friends?

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Have you any books on what they did before Europeans arrived?

A quick Google would give you plenty on the topic... It's going back to this narrative that colonisers brought civilization to savages. Similar was said about Ireland over the centuries so I think it's a tad insulting towards a culture to assume a civilizing effect.
https://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/trade-among-tribes-commerce-plains-europeans-arrived

So ya, I think it's reasonable for the likes of Santorum to have a little bit of respect for a culture that they committed genocide against.

eagle eye

Overheal wrote:

Like do the books need to be on my shelf right now or do you want a store link if so

How many of them have history that predates the arrival of Europeans in North America?

Overheal

eagle eye wrote: »

How many of them have history that predates the arrival of Europeans in North America?

Lots of them. Historians were good enough to record some of it before we wiped most of it out. Native Americans had a thriving and self sustainable civilization.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

A quick Google would give you plenty on the topic... It's going back to this narrative that colonisers brought civilization to savages. Similar was said about Ireland over the centuries so I think it's a tad insulting towards a culture to assume a civilizing effect.

Thanks for that, I'm going to read all I can about that.

Deleted User wrote:

So ya, I think it's reasonable for the likes of Santorum to have a little bit of respect for a culture that they committed genocide against.

I doubt Santorum's family were involved considering his mother was Italian and his father was of Irish and Italian descent so none of his family were likely there when the US was discovered.
I agree he showed no respect and I've said that there's a suggestion of racism but he didn't actually say anything racist.

eagle eye

Overheal wrote:

Lots of them. Historians were good enough to record some of it before we wiped most of it out. Native Americans had a thriving and self sustainable civilization.

And you ask people for links all the time but provide none to back up your comments.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

Lots of them. Historians were good enough to record some of it before we wiped most of it out. Native Americans had a thriving and self sustainable civilization.

Also, oral histories were a pretty big thing for native Americans iirc. The implication that they were uncivilized or lacking a culture is pretty ignorant. Particularly since much of that culture is still alive and well in spite of what settlers did.

Overheal

eagle eye wrote: »

And you ask people for links all the time but provide none to back up your comments.

I already linked you to books.

You don’t seem to be arguing in good faith: what is your thesis, that the natives were all braindead savages before someone carrying the Bible of King James showed up, touched them on the forehead and gave them the knowledge to stand up straight, use tools and speak? What is your thesis.

Tell me how

Tell me how wrote: »

BS.
As expected.

Wah wah wah from conservatives without a hint of introspection.

I'm not a conservative. The fact that you think I am exemplifies your own bias, and the complete **** state that American political discourse finds itself in. You are suggesting I'm a conservative based on one simple fact that I suugest cancel culture exists. Bizarre. There are many on the left who accept it exists aswell.

weisses

eagle eye wrote: »

And you ask people for links all the time but provide none to back up your comments.

More then 30k of posts and still incapable of discussing in good faith

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

I already linked you to books.

You don’t seem to be arguing in good faith: what is your thesis, that the natives were all braindead savages before someone carrying the holy Bible showed up, touched them on the forehead and gave them the knowledge to stand up straight, use tools and speak? What is your thesis.

Also interest to see if Eagle thinks Ireland had a society prior to Rome sending Bishops over in the 4th century. We didn't have a written record but we weren't savages by any measure.

The big difference with the US one is that it is in such recent history, that somebody like Santorum should know better.

duploelabs

Hhhhh wrote: »

I'm not a conservative. The fact that you think I am exemplifies your own bias, and the complete **** state that American political discourse finds itself in. You are suggesting I'm a conservative based on one simple fact that I suugest cancel culture exists. Bizarre. There are many on the left who accept it exists aswell.

You've dodged both questions so far on what you define as Cancel Culture so why don't you raise the standard of your responses by furnishing us with that definition as it appears, by reading of your posts, you don't know yourself

Overheal

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Also interest to see if Eagle thinks Ireland had a society prior to Rome sending Bishops over in the 4th century. We didn't have a written record but we weren't savages by any measure.

The big difference with the US one is that it is in such recent history, that somebody like Santorum should know better.

They were two different civilizations with two different philosophies: one thought it owned the planet, and the other thought it belonged to it. Native Americans not being in the middle of an imperialist industrial revolution when the former showed up is not a proof that there was “nothing here” before colonizers showed up.

duploelabs

duploelabs wrote: »

You've dodged both questions so far on what you define as Cancel Culture so why don't you raise the standard of your responses by furnishing us with that definition as it appears, by reading of your posts, you don't know yourself

You didn't ask a question. You made a demand, and no-one else asked me, so I'm not sure what 'questions' I dodged since I was never asked one. None of which really matters, since dodging questions isn't exactly unique to conservatives anyway.

Overheal

Overheal wrote: »

They were two different civilizations with two different philosophies: one thought it owned the planet, and the other thought it belonged to it. Native Americans not being in the middle of an imperialist industrial revolution when the former showed up is not a proof that there was “nothing here” before colonizers showed up.

And the other thing is that a huge amount of their history has simply been lost or destroyed as a result of colonisation. Colonisation was very much so a destructive thing rather than civilizing.

duploelabs

Hhhhh wrote: »

You didn't ask a question. You made a demand, and no-one else asked me, so I'm not sure what 'questions' I dodged since I was never asked one. None of which really matters, since dodging questions isn't exactly unique to conservatives anyway.

Another dodge, so what is cancel culture in your own words

eagle eye

Overheal wrote:

You don’t seem to be arguing in good faith: what is your thesis, that the natives were all braindead savages before someone carrying the Bible of King James showed up, touched them on the forehead and gave them the knowledge to stand up straight, use tools and speak? What is your thesis.

No, I said there's very little history for us to read about so we know very little about it. It's you who are not arguing in good faith, you just have an agenda to castigate anybody whose a Republican.
I'm not even saying that I think Santorum isn't racist, I'm pointing out what he said isn't.

Christy42

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not a Republican, I've always supported the Democrats.

I did not call you a Republican. I asked why Republicans so frequently need their statements translated into English to make them not seem racist. In this case Santorum is the Republican.

I know what he said and your own translations bear little resemblance to what he said.

Overheal

eagle eye wrote: »

No, I said there's very little history for us to read about so we know very little about it. It's you who are not arguing in good faith, you just have an agenda to castigate anybody whose a Republican.
I'm not even saying that I think Santorum isn't racist, I'm pointing out what he said isn't.

So you’re arguing a negative and appealing to ignorance. Both are logical fallacies. You don’t think it’s racist because of your own appeal to ignorance.

You’ve been directed toward books, you specifically asked for books. There are lots and lots of books written about native Americans and American pre colonial history it’s up to you to search it out now I guess, you’ve already been escorted to the waters edge. There’s plenty of history to read about you just choose not to.

Any proof that I “just have an agenda to castigate anybody who is a Republican” would be welcome thanks.

everlast75

eagle eye wrote: »

No, I said there's very little history for us to read about so we know very little about it. It's you who are not arguing in good faith, you just have an agenda to castigate anybody whose a Republican.
I'm not even saying that I think Santorum isn't racist, I'm pointing out what he said isn't.

He is an a hole who has a long history of saying controversial things and people had enough.

Just like a tv show that people grow tired of.

It gets cancelled.

That's tv.

That's life.

Either learn from your warnings or don't.
But quit whinging when what you were warned would happen, happens.

duploelabs

duploelabs wrote: »

Another dodge, so what is cancel culture in your own words

No dodge, just simple facts. Re-read the thread. Is that another demand you are making, or do you not understand the function of the question mark?

Brian?

WhomadeGod wrote: »

Democratic posters deny that cancel culture exists.

Yet keep posting examples of cancel culture

I would say there is a max of 2 posters here that have ever voted for the Democrats and zero who are members of the the Democratic party.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

No, I said there's very little history for us to read about so we know very little about it. It's you who are not arguing in good faith, you just have an agenda to castigate anybody whose a Republican.
I'm not even saying that I think Santorum isn't racist, I'm pointing out what he said isn't.

Eh, he did a pretty great job of a whitewash of the genocide of European colonisation firstly. Secondly, he implied that they brought culture to the US. The US was a "blank slate". That's patently untrue and I would say there's a racist element, he basically entirely diminished a culture and claimed it doesn't even exist in the present day.... Racism through ignorance is still racist....

Also, the weirdest part is you seem to be trying to argue he has a point.

duploelabs

Hhhhh wrote: »

No dodge, just simple facts. Re-read the thread. Is that another demand you are making, or do you not understand the function of the question mark?

Another dodge, is that 4 now? So what is cancel culture?

eagle eye

Overheal wrote:

So you’re arguing a negative and appealing to ignorance. Both are logical fallacies. You don’t think it’s racist because of your own appeal to ignorance.

I said he didn't say anything racist. He just gave an opinion on history and demographics.
1.6% of the population supports his demographic opinion, lack of history means it's hard to argue with his opinion on history.
And I've said it does suggest racism but that he didn't actually say anything racist.

Overheal wrote:

You’ve been directed toward books, you specifically asked for books. There are lots and lots of books written about native Americans and American pre colonial history it’s up to you to search it out now I guess, you’ve already been escorted to the waters edge. There’s plenty of history to read about you just choose not to.

You linked to books which all seem to be about since Europeans went to north America.

Overheal wrote:

Any proof that I “just have an agenda to castigate anybody who is a Republican†would be welcome thanks.

Yeah, all through this thread and any of the old Trump threads.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

Also, the weirdest part is you seem to be trying to argue he has a point.

I'm not trying to argue that he has a point. I'm saying what he said isn't racist.
I'd suspect he is racist but I've no proof of that. I'd suspect he's a homophobe too but I've no proof of that either.