Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

Smee_Again

Eric Cartman wrote: »

From your own link :


So over 30% on benefits are not working at all and are not elderly
Less than half of the 69.2% who work are in full time employment .

So 32.4% of those in receipt of benefits in the state work full time, so over 2 thirds either dont work, or only work part time .

Sounds like 2/3rds of these people need to get themselves a full time job.

Employers don’t offer full time hours to avoid having to pay extra benefits.

For example in Wall Mart full time hours are 34. That means workers would have to work 58 weeks a year to hit 1990 hours.

Eric Cartman

Smee_Again wrote: »

Employers don’t offer full time hours to avoid having to pay extra benefits.

For example in Wall Mart full time hours are 34. That means workers would have to work 58 weeks a year to hit 1990 hours.

And im sure you can cherry pick a handful of other bad actors, walmart and amazon are just sleazy employers , 49% of americans work for small businesses who dont have the HR departments to pull these stunts

Also over 85% of american men are working over 40 hours a week : https://bluewatercredit.com/americans-now-working-hours-country-world/

Smee_Again

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And im sure you can cherry pick a handful of other bad actors, walmart and amazon are just sleazy employers , 49% of americans work for small businesses who dont have the HR departments to pull these stunts

Also over 85% of american men are working over 40 hours a week : https://bluewatercredit.com/americans-now-working-hours-country-world/

It’s not cherry picking when they are among the biggest employers in the US.

Leroy42

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And im sure you can cherry pick a handful of other bad actors, walmart and amazon are just sleazy employers , 49% of americans work for small businesses who dont have the HR departments to pull these stunts

Also over 85% of american men are working over 40 hours a week : https://bluewatercredit.com/americans-now-working-hours-country-world/

And what about those that can't work. Disabilities, lack of education, family situation, mental health.

You mention a few bad actors. These are massive companies, employing thousands of people. Before going after the powerless, you should be focused on getting tough on these bad actors. Sort those out and it would make a massive difference.

But back to your point.

What taxes are too high, what is the right tax rate?
What defines big government and what needs to be done to reduce it?

Smee_Again

Leroy42 wrote: »

You mention a few bad actors. These are massive companies, employing thousands of people. Before going after the powerless, you should be focused on getting tough on these bad actors. Sort those out and it would make a massive difference.

Millions, not thousands.

The Pareto principal would apply here, getting tough on the few large bad actors like Walmart, Amazon etc would have a massive impact on workers.

Igotadose

Here's some excerpts from an article by Paul Krugman about the tax plan, from yesterday's NYT:

"Bidenomics Is as American as Apple Pie"

"Bidenomics consists, roughly speaking, of large-scale public investment paid for with highly progressive taxation. And both of these things are as American as apple pie."

"Actually, given extremely low borrowing costs it’s not obvious that we would even need a tax hike if infrastructure spending were the end of the story. But we will need more revenue to pay for the whole Biden program, which everyone expects will eventually include another round of spending targeted on families. So it makes sense to tie tax hikes to the jobs plan; polling suggests that paying for public investment with taxes on corporations and the rich increases support for an infrastructure plan, and that something along the lines of the Biden proposals will command very high public approval.

Republicans will no doubt denounce the idea of taxing the rich as un-American class warfare. In reality, however, such taxation is another long tradition in this country. As Thomas Piketty, the inequality scholar, likes to put it, America basically invented progressive taxation."

...
"There will and should be extensive debate over the details of Biden’s spend-and-tax plan over the next few months. In its broad outline, however, the plan represents a turn away from the free-market extremism that has ruled U.S. policy in recent years, back to an older tradition — the tradition that prevailed during America’s years of greatest economic success."

--

Krugman points out the greatest era of US prosperity was ushered in, in part, by the progressive tax plan implemented under Eisenhower, who used the money to build the Interstate highway system, DARPA, fund lots of other infrastructure. Biden's plan aims to do the same, pretty much a conservative playbook for building up an economy. He points out that the Erie Canal, the first government infrastructure project (NY State government) was publically funded to the tune of $1 million, which in today's $$ would be about $1 trillion, and was a roaring success opening up the midwest to settlement and commerce. Just one of several examples.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/opinion/biden-infrastructure.html

Eric Cartman

Igotadose wrote: »

Here's some excerpts from an article by Paul Krugman about the tax plan, from yesterday's NYT:

"Bidenomics Is as American as Apple Pie"

"Bidenomics consists, roughly speaking, of large-scale public investment paid for with highly progressive taxation. And both of these things are as American as apple pie."

"Actually, given extremely low borrowing costs it’s not obvious that we would even need a tax hike if infrastructure spending were the end of the story. But we will need more revenue to pay for the whole Biden program, which everyone expects will eventually include another round of spending targeted on families. So it makes sense to tie tax hikes to the jobs plan; polling suggests that paying for public investment with taxes on corporations and the rich increases support for an infrastructure plan, and that something along the lines of the Biden proposals will command very high public approval.

Republicans will no doubt denounce the idea of taxing the rich as un-American class warfare. In reality, however, such taxation is another long tradition in this country. As Thomas Piketty, the inequality scholar, likes to put it, America basically invented progressive taxation."

...
"There will and should be extensive debate over the details of Biden’s spend-and-tax plan over the next few months. In its broad outline, however, the plan represents a turn away from the free-market extremism that has ruled U.S. policy in recent years, back to an older tradition — the tradition that prevailed during America’s years of greatest economic success."

--

Krugman points out the greatest era of US prosperity was ushered in, in part, by the progressive tax plan implemented under Eisenhower, who used the money to build the Interstate highway system, DARPA, fund lots of other infrastructure. Biden's plan aims to do the same, pretty much a conservative playbook for building up an economy. He points out that the Erie Canal, the first government infrastructure project (NY State government) was publically funded to the tune of $1 million, which in today's $$ would be about $1 trillion, and was a roaring success opening up the midwest to settlement and commerce. Just one of several examples.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/01/opinion/biden-infrastructure.html

its quite funny because apple pie is Dutch , another country in which taxation is too high.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its quite funny because apple pie is Dutch , another country in which taxation is too high.

Apple pie is English, not Dutch.

Here is the first known recipe from the 14th century. http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/foc/FoC160small.html

The first known Dutch apple pie is from the 16th century. http://www.kookhistorie.nl/index.htm

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

Apple pie is English, not Dutch.

Here is the first know recipe from the 14th century. http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/foc/FoC160small.html

The first known Dutch apple pie is from the 16th century.

well we can agree its not American. But I am definitely up for a fascinating thread on the origins of apple pie and possibly a boards.ie pie competition :pac:

Igotadose

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its quite funny because apple pie is Dutch , another country in which taxation is too high.

Actually, per Southern Living, it originated in England. Chaucer recorded a recipe. But, apples were not native to the new world and people like Johnny Appleseed helped encourage their spread.

https://www.southernliving.com/desserts/pies/history-apple-pie

Good quote from that article:
"Phony symbolism aside, apple pie actually does represent America, but not for the reasons most people think. Apple pie is American because it represents how cultures from all over the world can join together to create something new and altogether wonderful. Like apples, we’re all transplants."

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

well we can agree its not American. But I am definitely up for a fascinating thread on the origins of apple pie and possibly a boards.ie pie competition :pac:

It does, however, suggest that you have a tendency to state things as fact without doing a few second's research first.

eagle eye

Eric Cartman wrote:

its quite funny because apple pie is Dutch , another country in which taxation is too high.

Wrong, oldest known recipe is English.

And apple pie has been hugely popular in the US for a long, long time so it's a fitting saying.

Leroy42

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its quite funny because apple pie is Dutch , another country in which taxation is too high.

And yet you still haven't given any indication of what a correct taxation rate is.

Too high? Based on what? Is there a basis for this , clearly very embedded, opinion?

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

its quite funny because apple pie is Dutch , another country in which taxation is too high.

It's pretty telling that you didn't actually criticise one thing from the article. Worth pointing out by the way as infrastructure projects start coming out of all of this, it's gonna create jobs and stimulate the economy as a direct result too.

ancapailldorcha

Leroy42 wrote: »

And yet you still haven't given any indication of what a correct taxation rate is.

Too high? Based on what? Is there a basis for this , clearly very embedded, opinion?

It's too high because some of it goes to poor people, refugees and other people the right despise. The US could easily slash its tax take but spending less on its military, literally the world's largest employer but you'll just see the usual conservative histrionics if that's even mooted.

Eric Cartman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It's too high because some of it goes to poor people, refugees and other people the right despise. The US could easily slash its tax take but spending less on its military, literally the world's largest employer but you'll just see the usual conservative histrionics if that's even mooted.

we despise them because they cause tax. Id personally be in favour of cutting military spending in the US. if there was no income tax, cgt, property tax and no vat and little to no corporate tax then I wouldn't care where the money was spent because I wouldn't be funding it. As that sadly is not the case, ill rally against anything funded by those taxes.

ancapailldorcha

Eric Cartman wrote: »

we despise them because they cause tax. Id personally be in favour of cutting military spending in the US. if there was no income tax, cgt, property tax and no vat and little to no corporate tax then I wouldn't care where the money was spent because I wouldn't be funding it. As that sadly is not the case, ill rally against anything funded by those taxes.

Let's be honest, when you see huge conservative support for racists, bigots and the storming of the Capitol by the far right then I think we can put it down to good old racism. I doubt the specimens of the master race waving swastikas bothered to research public spending.

You never hear conservatives clamour for cutting the military. All they seem to want is more cruelty.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

we despise them because they cause tax. Id personally be in favour of cutting military spending in the US. if there was no income tax, cgt, property tax and no vat and little to no corporate tax then I wouldn't care where the money was spent because I wouldn't be funding it. As that sadly is not the case, ill rally against anything funded by those taxes.

Meanwhile you don't care in the slightest that some of America's largest employers prevent employees from being classified as full time employees. Instead you complain about the employees. Based on your previous posts, I'd suspect you actually admire companies for taking advantage of such loopholes.

Also this idea of zero taxation basically ends with a country collapsing. You aren't going to have any large-scale infrastructure developments, healthcare will cost a fortune. Eg you're claiming taxes are too high in the US but they aren't...

Eric Cartman

Deleted User wrote: »

Meanwhile you don't care in the slightest that some of America's largest employers prevent employees from being classified as full time employees. Instead you complain about the employees. Based on your previous posts, I'd suspect you actually admire companies for taking advantage of such loopholes.

Also this idea of zero taxation basically ends with a country collapsing. You aren't going to have any large-scale infrastructure developments, healthcare will cost a fortune. Eg you're claiming taxes are too high in the US but they aren't...

I dont admire them at all for it. But all these things are done as a tax fiddle, its to avoid being forced to pay for things. If you had a flat tax system where it was say 10% corporation tax and 20% across the board income tax, no fiddles, credits, loopholes, additional taxes or forced responsibilities etc.. then companies wouldn't be offshoring profits, using multiple part time workers instead of a single full time, etc.. All these rules about treating part time and full time workers differently. At the moment we have a competition gap where big employers can play these funny games and squeeze out small businesses. If we just reduce the tax burden but close all the loopholes then everyones on an even playing field and small businesses can compete , employees are better off as they have more certainty that their lives won't be turned upside down to suit a loophole etc..

at the moment the biggest problem is that its built tomes of regulations designed to stop businesses being evil, helped written by big corporations who make them sound nice but in reality they just hurt all but the biggest players who can loophole around them. If you cut taxation and regulation more Americans would go back to running and working in small businesses which are less likely to be crappy employers, it also opens up the route to start more businesses in deprived areas where the only jobs available are the crap ones like Walmart.

Eric Cartman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Let's be honest, when you see huge conservative support for racists, bigots and the storming of the Capitol by the far right then I think we can put it down to good old racism. I doubt the specimens of the master race waving swastikas bothered to research public spending.

You never hear conservatives clamour for cutting the military. All they seem to want is more cruelty.

Ill mostly agree, Some conservatives ala Ron / rand paul have definitely opposed more military spending but ill agree its woefully unpopular to oppose the military in those circles. Theres a fair few democrats also who are pretty happy to keep spending on the war machine.

Its personally not something I support, defending domestic interests and peace keeping should be the stretch of any modern military.

1800_Ladladlad

Yesterday The First Lady stood in front of a flag that was inspired by and resembled Nazi imagery:


feg

“The flag was the official flag of the United Farm Workers of America,” “The organization claims that the eagle that is featured on the flag was designed by Cesar Chavez’s brother, Richard Chavez.” In a profile piece on Cesar Chavez, Smithsonian Magazine notes that the activist “researched emblems, including cigarette boxes and Nazi flags, and concluded that the most potent color combination was red, black and white.”

bjfb

Given the outrage directed toward the Trump campaign, the media showed little to no interest in the imagery displayed behind Biden. There was outrage surrounding the design of a t-shirt that had the eagle's head turned in the same direction as The Reichsadle. USA Today did a "fact-check" and originally concluded that Trump campaign’s use of an eagle was “similar” to Nazi imagery; “The claims that a Trump campaign T-shirt uses a symbol similar to a Nazi eagle is TRUE, based on our research.”, but of course it was amended much later stating; “This story has been updated to reflect further reporting and analysis. The rating has been changed to inconclusive.” Trump would have been hung drawn and quartered for doing the same thing. Yet the mainstream media are nowhere to be seen. It's the shameless double standards.

Biden is simply pandering here on a level that is cringeworthy.

https://twitter.com/akoseff/status/1377388159160311809

salmocab

Cringeworthy is right

Billy Mays

I'm always reminded of this when I see Cartman banging on about his hatred of the poor

It takes a special kind of d!ckhead to despise people who are just plain unlucky enough to be born into poverty

gizmo

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

...stuff...

Out of curiosity, why not link to the article from which you lifted most of the content in your post?

Is it because it was an editorial piece from the Daily Wire?

Fact-Checkers Rated A Trump T-Shirt As ‘Similar’ To Nazi Imagery. Will Jill Biden Get The Same Treatment?

ohnonotgmail

salmocab wrote: »

Cringeworthy is right

indeed. Standing in front of a flag that you have no idea of the significance of (assuming the design is significant) is the exact same thing as profiting by selling tshirts inspired by nazi imagery.

Leroy42

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I dont admire them at all for it. But all these things are done as a tax fiddle, its to avoid being forced to pay for things. If you had a flat tax system where it was say 10% corporation tax and 20% across the board income tax, no fiddles, credits, loopholes, additional taxes or forced responsibilities etc.. then companies wouldn't be offshoring profits, using multiple part time workers instead of a single full time, etc.. All these rules about treating part time and full time workers differently. At the moment we have a competition gap where big employers can play these funny games and squeeze out small businesses. If we just reduce the tax burden but close all the loopholes then everyones on an even playing field and small businesses can compete , employees are better off as they have more certainty that their lives won't be turned upside down to suit a loophole etc..

at the moment the biggest problem is that its built tomes of regulations designed to stop businesses being evil, helped written by big corporations who make them sound nice but in reality they just hurt all but the biggest players who can loophole around them. If you cut taxation and regulation more Americans would go back to running and working in small businesses which are less likely to be crappy employers, it also opens up the route to start more businesses in deprived areas where the only jobs available are the crap ones like Walmart.

But do you understand why these loopholes exist? They don't just appear, and they certainly don't stay for no reason.

Companies lobby, threaten to leave individual states etc unless they get special treatment.

1800_Ladladlad

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Yesterday The First Lady stood in front of a flag that was inspired by and resembled Nazi imagery:

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

In a profile piece on Cesar Chavez, Smithsonian Magazine notes that the activist “researched emblems, including cigarette boxes and Nazi flags, and concluded that the most potent color combination was red, black and white.”

So, the whole purpose of this post is to point out that this flag must be Nazi-related because it uses red, black and white? That is what you have decided to be angry about today?

salmocab

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So, the whole purpose of this post is to point out that this flag must be Nazi-related because it uses red, black and white? That is what you have decided to be angry about today?

No it’s what he was told to be angry about today

salmocab

salmocab wrote: »

No it’s what he was told to be angry about today

I have a ball. Do you think he would like to bounce it?

eagle eye

The way to solve the American financial problems is to get rid of credit cards. That'll never happen but it's what drags the whole economy down because too many people spend more than they can afford and then spend years paying it back. So you get these people putting massive funds into the economy for a couple of years and then they are locked down in repaying debts for years. Slow and steady is much better for the economy than bubbles, only people that benefit from bubbles are the crooks on Wall Street.
Student loans are ridiculous over there too. I know a guy who qualified in medicine but decided to go working in a bar to pay off his student loans. He said he couldn't afford to go through the years following college until he got rid of his student loans.
That's just one example but it's pretty common over there.