Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Both sides can spend days posting links that support their sides..

Nothing is definitive.

Simple: cops target crime and criminals. Not colors..

End of story...

Why does it always come back to racism/systemic racism just because some statistics show certain colors being more involved day to day with cops?

Except the NY Post study is self published and the other is peer reviewed... So far more credible evidence has been posted by Aristotle.

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

Simple: cops target crime and criminals. Not colors..

This is extremely naive.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Very apt considering your username!!!😅

This statement

"Simple: cops target crime and criminals. Not colors.."

needs backing up. You have been provided evidence which strongly indicates that that is not the case.

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

This is extremely naive.

No, it is not..

Of course, in any police force anywhere you will have bad apples. We know this.

Nowhere in any cop manual will it ever say that cops are to target colors or treat certain colors more or less favourably..

Cops are there to uphold the law and protect humans. It’s that simple...

They are involved in millions of incidents every month...

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

This statement

"Simple: cops target crime and criminals. Not colors.."

needs backing up. You have been provided evidence which strongly indicates that that is not the case.

Sorry, this thread is pages long. I can’t recall you providing me, specifically with any facts/figures/stats. If you did, thanks. I must have missed the links. Can you point me to the post, please.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Of course, in any police force anywhere you will have bad apples. We know this.

And why is there a common trait every year for those bad apples to target black men over white men year on year?

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, this thread is pages long. I can’t recall you providing me, specifically with any facts/figures/stats. If you did, thanks. I must have missed the links. Can you point me to the post, please.

I posted a link this morning. You can start with that and go from there.

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

Nowhere in any cop manual will it ever say that cops are to target colors or treat certain colors more or less favourably..

And yet that's exactly what they do. Why do you think this is?

I'll tell you, but you'll have to read up on it because you didn't understand it yesterday, institutional racism.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

And why is there a common trait every year for those bad apples to target black men over white men year on year?

Bad apples can target anyone of any color. They are bad apples..

Yes, some of these bad sped are also racist bad apples..

We all know this.. it’s part of life...

Now, the systemic racism narrative....

I have seen nothing that definitely shows systemic racism in the police force in America. Nothing. It is gone.

Times have changed dramatically. Eras have changed. Peoples attitudes and tolerances have changed. Rules, laws, guidelines have changed..

This is not the early to mid 20th century..

Racism is still there. And always will be....

Systemic racism is another ballgame altogether.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

I have seen nothing that definitely shows systemic racism in the police force in America. Nothing. It is gone.

It's quite clear that you are not opening any links or reading any of the papers that have been provided in this discussion. The reason you have not seen this is therefore confirmation bias.

Quin_Dub

Bottom line - The US Police kill an awful lot of people.

~1150 people killed by Police Officers in 2019

As a Comparison , the Police Forces of Europe combined killed a total of 56 , with France accounting for 26 of those.

The Deaths per million rate for the US is 348 deaths , France which accounts for almost half the police deaths in Europe has a rate almost 10 times lower at 38 per million.

The rate per Million for the whole of Europe is somewhere in the mid teens or about 20 times lower than the US

Training and in a lot of cases the extreme lack thereof is a MASSIVE problem in the US.

What is it about Police behaviour that leads them to kill suspects at such inflated rates?

Are US criminals just that more violent?

Clearly the widespread availability of guns plays a significant part , but that can't be the only reason.

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, this thread is pages long. I can’t recall you providing me, specifically with any facts/figures/stats. If you did, thanks. I must have missed the links. Can you point me to the post, please.

This is data from California, it's 97 pages long so I haven't read it all but I'll post some of the data below...

95.3 percent of stops were officer-initiated, while 4.7 percent of stops were in response to a call for service, radio call, or dispatch.

Individuals perceived to be Hispanic (39.8%), White (33.2%), or Black (15.2%) comprised the majority of stopped individuals.

The most commonly reported reason for a stop across all racial/ethnic groups was traffic violations, followed by reasonable suspicion. A higher percentage of Black individuals were stopped for reasonable suspicion than any other racial identity group.

Black individuals represented a higher proportion of stopped individuals than their relative proportion of the population in both benchmark datasets.

The veil of darkness (VOD) method is a third benchmarking method used this year. The VOD analysis compares the proportion of individuals stopped during daylight hours to the proportion of individuals stopped when it is dark outside during the intertwilight period, i.e., the time of day that is dark during Standard Time, but light during Daylight Savings Time. Having a higher proportion of stops of individuals of a particular racial or ethnic group occur in the light, compared to White individuals, may be considered evidence of bias towards that group. The VOD analysis of this year’s data indicated disparities in stops during light hours vs. dark hours for some racial and ethnic identity groups. For example, individuals perceived to be Pacific Islander or Multiracial had a higher proportion of their stops occur during light hours than individuals perceived to be White.

Officers searched Black individuals at a rate 2.9 times the rate at which they searched Whiteindividuals (18.7% vs. 6.5%).

Search yield rate analyses showed that, when officers searched individuals, contraband or evidence was generally found on White individuals at higher rates than individuals from all other groups.

When examining search yield rates by the presumed level of discretion available to the officer in deciding to conduct a search, yield rates for racial/ethnic groups of color were lower than for White individuals for higher-discretion searches, i.e., searches for which the only basis for search was “consent given.”


60.3 percent of all individuals stopped were issued a citation and/or arrested. Native American and Black individuals had the highest arrest rates and the lowest rates of citation. Middle Eastern/South Asian and Asian individuals had the highest citation rates and the lowest arrest rates.

(My bold)

And you claim police don't target colours?

Source

biko

Overheal wrote: »

So they would say.

You're getting well off the point though: admission that slave labor is a systemic part of our criminal justice system.

You actually claimed systemic racism existed today in the form of punishment for crime.

It does not. Penal labour is time limited involuntary servitude and not geared towards one race over another.
Involuntary servitude is not slavery (that's why both phrases show in the amendment and not just the word slavery).

By the way, it's not "our" criminal justice system You may be in US, but the rest of us are in Ireland.
Our system banned penal labour 23 years ago. Our neighbour UK banned it in the 50s.
The US need to catch up. Maybe chat to Kamala about abolishing it altogether?

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

This is data from California, it's 97 pages long so I haven't read it all but I'll post some of the data below...




(My bold)

And you claim police don't target colours?

Source

They target people.

And if people arouse their suspicion they will be challenged/stopped/targeted..

Simple..

Just because certain colors are stopped more...that is nothing but a statistic.

It does not at all show/prove/demonstrate systemic racism..

The cops are not selecting colors. They are selecting people/behaviours...

ohnonotgmail

walshb wrote: »

They target people.

And if people arouse their suspicion they will be challenged/stopped/targeted..

Simple..

Just because certain colors are stopped more...that is nothing but a statistic.

It does not at all show/prove/demonstrate systemic racism..

The cops are not selecting colors. They are selecting people/behaviours...

assume what you say is true, it isn't but for the sake of argument, how do explain the different level sanctions applied to different races?

biko

Has Kamala the border czar even visited the border yet?

The answer is of course no.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Just because certain colors are stopped more...that is nothing but a statistic.

Oof. Well, thank you for letting me know that there is no point in continuing the discussion with you.

In relevant thread news, Biden is set to officially recognize the Armenian genocide.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/21/us/politics/biden-armenia-genocide-turkey.html

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

They target people.

And if people arouse their suspicion they will be challenged/stopped/targeted..

Simple..

Just because certain colors are stopped more...that is nothing but a statistic.

It does not at all show/prove/demonstrate systemic racism..

The cops are not selecting colors. They are selecting people/behaviours...

Nah, it's racism but you're obviously determined not to see that.

That's cool. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

Did any of ye see psaki being asked yesterday how Biden felt about systemic racism seeing as he was one of the primary architects of it with his crime bills?..

(According to Cornell West apparently..)

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

Nah, it's racism but you're obviously determined not to see that.

That's cool. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

Stopping black people in the course of doing your job is racism?

And just because black people are stopped more as a percentage comparison...

Does black cops stopping black people get factored in with all these systemic stats and figures..?

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Does black cops stopping black people get factored in with all these systemic stats and figures..?

Is this your way of telling us that you are ignoring all of the links that have been provided?

Smee_Again

walshb wrote: »

Stopping black people in the course of doing your job is racism..

And just because black people are stopped more as a percentage comparison...

Does black cops stopping black people get factored in with all these systemic stats and figures..?

Stopping people for no reason other than the colour of their skin is racism and this is what happens in California.

More likely to be stopped, less likely to have committed a traffic violation, more likely to be searched and less likely to cited or arrested. That's racism.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

Is this your way of telling us that you are ignoring all of the links that have been provided?

You never sent me all these links..

Anyway, it’s a yes/no. Does the color of the officer(s) get mentioned in the links regarding cops and their carrying out their duties?

Circa 10-12 percent the force are black..

walshb

Smee_Again wrote: »

Stopping people for no reason other than the colour of their skin is racism and this is what happens in California.

More likely to be stopped, less likely to have committed a traffic violation, more likely to be searched and less likely to cited or arrested. That's racism.

Oh, I see. And you have all this data and proof that the ONLY reason for a lot of these stops was the cops saying “black person, must stop/challenge.”

No chance that the cops had any other reason other than color?

So, how is all this clear racism being allowed?

Are the cops breaking the law every time they stop a black persons only because he/she is black? You seem to know this is happening.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

You never sent me all these links..

Anyway, it’s a yes/no. Does the color of the officer(s) get mentioned in the links regarding coos and their carrying out their duties?

Circa 10-12 percent the force are black..

I told you that I provided a link to a study this morning. You can read it and then get back to us instead of assuming that it doesn't because you don't want it to.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

I told you that I provided a link to a study this morning. You can read it and then get back to us instead of assuming that it doesn't because you don't want it to.

You have obviously read the link(s)

I will try later today..

Can you answer my question? Is the color of the officers mentioned/referenced regarding their carrying out their duties?

ohnonotgmail

walshb wrote: »

You have obviously read the link(s)

I will try later today..

Can you answer my question? Is the color of the officers mentioned/referenced regarding their carrying out their duties?

perhaps read the link and then comment. Otherwise it looks like you have made your mind up and it is a waste of time discussing anything with you.

walshb

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

perhaps read the link and then comment. Otherwise it looks like you have made your mind up and it is a waste of time discussing anything with you.

I will.

I am asking the poster one single question..

I see no reason for not answer. It’s a yes/no answer.

If the poster does not answer: I think it’s safe to assume that officers color is not factored/referenced here..

walshb

walshb wrote: »

You have obviously read the link(s)

I will try later today..

Can you answer my question? Is the color of the officers mentioned/referenced regarding their carrying out their duties?

The more times you ask that question, the more obvious it becomes that you have no interest in finding out if your opinion is right or wrong, only that you want to read stuff that shows that your opinion is right.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

The more times you ask that question, the more obvious it becomes that you have no interest in finding out if your opinion is right or wrong, only that you want to read stuff that shows that your opinion is right.

Fine.

Answer is no...

No idea why you withheld this...

It’s a yes/no....wouldn’t have hurt to simply answer me on it..

And opinions are a lot of the time neither right nor wrong..