Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

landofthetree

landofthetree wrote: »

https://www.westernjournal.com/3-unions-endorsed-biden-seem-like-already-regretting/amp/?__twitter_impression=true




Biden doesnt care about working class people.

Investment in green energy and improving the overall US infrastructure will create plenty of jobs... Helping to wreck the environment and climate with such a pipeline meanwhile would have a significant negative impacts on the entirety of the population for generations to come. So he's following the science.

Cody montana

landofthetree wrote: »

https://www.westernjournal.com/3-unions-endorsed-biden-seem-like-already-regretting/amp/?__twitter_impression=true




Biden doesnt care about working class people.

Great news, that's what the people voted for.
Protection of the environment and movement towards new green jobs.

Well done Biden.
Refreshing to have him in charge.
Hopefully more to come, including expansion of protected areas.

Samsonsmasher

Lloyd Austin, the new Secretary of Defense, was a senior military officer during the US invasion and occupation of Iraq and retires to a fat salary job with Raytheon who just happen to manufacture missiles and bombs for the US military. Now he has the top job at the Pentagon and he claims he will recuse himself of any decisions which benefit Raytheon? Right!

Anyway who cares because he's the first black Secretary of Defense. The people who will die from US airstrikes can take comfort.

namloc1980

I think Trump supporters need to see a doctor because they appear to be suffering acute amnesia and can't remember anything about Trump and his expansion of drone strikes over the last 4 years.

Cody montana

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Lloyd Austin, the new Secretary of Defense, was a senior military officer during the US invasion and occupation of Iraq and retires to a fat salary job with Raytheon who just happen to manufacture missiles and bombs for the US military. Now he has the top job at the Pentagon and he claims he will recuse himself of any decisions which benefit Raytheon? Right!

Anyway who cares because he's the first black Secretary of Defense. The people who will die from US airstrikes can take comfort.

Do you think there has been no airstrikes for the last few years?

rossie1977

landofthetree wrote: »

https://www.westernjournal.com/3-unions-endorsed-biden-seem-like-already-regretting/amp/?__twitter_impression=true




Biden doesnt care about working class people.

All those permanent jobs..

https://money.cnn.com/2017/03/24/investing/keystone-pipeline-jobs-trump/index.html

Faugheen

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Lloyd Austin, the new Secretary of Defense, was a senior military officer during the US invasion and occupation of Iraq and retires to a fat salary job with Raytheon who just happen to manufacture missiles and bombs for the US military. Now he has the top job at the Pentagon and he claims he will recuse himself of any decisions which benefit Raytheon? Right!

Anyway who cares because he's the first black Secretary of Defense. The people who will die from US airstrikes can take comfort.

Lol, still crying.

Pa ElGrande

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That article is from the start of the month. It's a bit sick of you to use an emaciated child as a political tool to be honest.

extra gravy wrote: »

Feigning concern for famine victims is a new one. You can volunteer here and help out yourself if you're that bothered by it https://www.givingway.com/volunteer-opportunities/yemen

News media has no problem using children for political ends. Why not end a war? actually save peoples lives.
I dpn't mind being called out on that, allowing aid to get through and not having people starving is fine by me.

I've been following the development and progression of the wars in the Middle East for some time. It is a question I've asked before elsewhere, why does Yemen not this not garner headline attention? I've had conversations with Irish aid agency workers and coordinators about it, they know about the situation but they can't get in there and they did not offer a reason why Yemen does not get much attention. My own opinion is this tied to Saudi money in the politics and news media of the United States.

US President Trump could have been battered by so called political opposition over Yemen, especially in response to his peace in the Middle East initiatives, He wasn't. We spent the last 4 years both knocking and praising President Trump. The famine in Yemen is a crisis that the US and its allies can end today.

President Trump was actively blocked from ending wars during his term, both by his own administration and the political opposition. The American administration has changed personnel, their foreign policy has not changed. Why not end the wars? Trump got in way over his head, Now the US has an experienced political operator who is set in his ways at the top, what change are you expecting?

namloc1980

I see we're back to tansuit and Dijon mustard levels of scandal again. Apparently Joe Biden has a fancy exercise bike and a nice watch. Media are losing their minds over it.

ancapailldorcha

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

News media has no problem using children for political ends. Why not end a war? actually save peoples lives.
I dpn't mind being called out on that, allowing aid to get through and not having people starving is fine by me.

I've been following the development and progression of the wars in the Middle East for some time. It is a question I've asked before elsewhere, why does Yemen not this not garner headline attention? I've had conversations with Irish aid agency workers and coordinators about it, they know about the situation but they can't get in there and they did not offer a reason why Yemen does not get much attention. My own opinion is this tied to Saudi money in the politics and news media of the United States.

US President Trump could have been battered by so called political opposition over Yemen, especially in response to his peace in the Middle East initiatives, He wasn't. We spent the last 4 years both knocking and praising President Trump. The famine in Yemen is a crisis that the US and its allies can end today.

President Trump was actively blocked from ending wars during his term, both by his own administration and the political opposition. The American administration has changed personnel, their foreign policy has not changed. Why not end the wars? Trump got in way over his head, Now the US has an experienced political operator who is set in his ways at the top, what change are you expecting?

I don't believe you to be honest.

You're clearly using the atrocities committed in Yemen as a way of bashing Biden. I doubt you were bothered about children dying when Trump was president based on your dumping that link here with a snappy comment.

If it can end today, it could have ended at any point in Trump's term but you don't care about it, really. Children dying is only bad when a Democrat is president.

namloc1980

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

News media has no problem using children for political ends. Why not end a war? actually save peoples lives.
I dpn't mind being called out on that, allowing aid to get through and not having people starving is fine by me.

I've been following the development and progression of the wars in the Middle East for some time. It is a question I've asked before elsewhere, why does Yemen not this not garner headline attention? I've had conversations with Irish aid agency workers and coordinators about it, they know about the situation but they can't get in there and they did not offer a reason why Yemen does not get much attention. My own opinion is this tied to Saudi money in the politics and news media of the United States.

US President Trump could have been battered by so called political opposition over Yemen, especially in response to his peace in the Middle East initiatives, He wasn't. We spent the last 4 years both knocking and praising President Trump. The famine in Yemen is a crisis that the US and its allies can end today.

President Trump was actively blocked from ending wars during his term, both by his own administration and the political opposition. The American administration has changed personnel, their foreign policy has not changed. Why not end the wars? Trump got in way over his head, Now the US has an experienced political operator who is set in his ways at the top, what change are you expecting?

Trump signed off on $110 billion in arms sales to Saudi Arabia in 2017 knowing full well what they'd be used for in the Saudi backed war in Yemen. Were you outraged by that? No, didn't think so.

https://nypost.com/2017/05/20/trump-signs-off-on-110b-arms-deal-in-saudi-arabia/

ancapailldorcha

namloc1980 wrote: »

Trump signed off on $110 billion in arms sales to Saudi Arabia in 2017 knowing full well what they'd be used for in the Saudi backed war in Yemen. Were you outraged by that? No, didn't think so.

https://nypost.com/2017/05/20/trump-signs-off-on-110b-arms-deal-in-saudi-arabia/

Saudi Arabia was also exempt from Trump's travel ban because of the business he does there.

Samsonsmasher

namloc1980 wrote: »

Trump signed off on $110 billion in arms sales to Saudi Arabia in 2017 knowing full well what they'd be used for in the Saudi backed war in Yemen. Were you outraged by that? No, didn't think so.

https://nypost.com/2017/05/20/trump-signs-off-on-110b-arms-deal-in-saudi-arabia/

Biden and Austin his Secretary of Defence who was employed by Raytheon who make the bombs the Saudis use in Yemen are not going to change US policy are they?

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Saudi Arabia was also exempt from Trump's travel ban because of the business he does there.

Also worth noting some of those bombs were used against school children.

Pa ElGrande

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't believe you to be honest.

You're clearly using the atrocities committed in Yemen as a way of bashing Biden. I doubt you were bothered about children dying when Trump was president based on your dumping that link here with a snappy comment.

If it can end today, it could have ended at any point in Trump's term but you don't care about it, really. Children dying is only bad when a Democrat is president.

Yes, The situation could have ended during President Trumps term, it did not. Trump is gone, and no change is expected. There is no world peace breaking out at his departure. The US went into Afghanistan in 2001, they are still there. They went into Irag in 2003, they are still there. The war in Syria started in 2011, and the US is there and recently sent more reinforcements in its covert war with Russia and Iran on the other side.

You would think that after 20 years of continuous war the Americans would have figured they have wasted enough resources and found a way to extricate themselves from the Middle East. The current situation started with President George Bush the elder in the early 90s and expanded massively with President Bush the lesser. It continued through both Presidents Obama and Trump terms and now it's President Bidens turn.

The Americans have been pursing a strategy of stalemate in Syria after 2015 when Russia entered, one that the Trump administration continued. The fantasy scenario being floated for some time is that they can partition the region and keep the weakened Arabs fighting among themselves with Iran mired in a war of attrition fighting the Sunni tribes.

While there are no perceived votes in it for American politicians, expect the situation to be ignored as long as possible and the stalemate to continue while it suits the US. Iran, Russia and Turkey are likely to want to break this stalemate so continued conflict and maybe acceleration is inevitable going but recent reinforcements from both the US and Russia being moved into the region. There is an anti-war side within Democrats and Republicans. It did make itself heard during the Bush years, it is still there but it has been memory holed since the start of President Obama terms. Given the narrow margins of victory in some states to take the electoral college, not ending US involvement in those wars was likely sufficient to lose President Trump the election.

namloc1980

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Biden and Austin his Secretary of Defence who was employed by Raytheon who make the bombs the Saudis use in Yemen are not going to change US policy are they?

There's bad faith arguments and then there's this. Sad.

dwayneshintzy

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

President Trump was actively blocked from ending wars during his term, both by his own administration and the political opposition

Trump Vetoes Measure to Force End to U.S. Involvement in Yemen War


You're honestly living in a fantasy world. It's grand to want an end to US military involvement around the world; it's another thing entirely believe it was something Trump gave a ****e about, or remotely tried to stop.

dwayneshintzy

namloc1980 wrote: »

There's bad faith arguments and then there's this. Sad.

This is a poster who bought hook, line and sinker into the mental arguments that Trump had a valid case to overturn the election.

Pa ElGrande

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Trump Vetoes Measure to Force End to U.S. Involvement in Yemen War


You're honestly living in a fantasy world. It's grand to want an end to US military involvement around the world; it's another thing entirely believe it was something Trump gave a ****e about, or remotely tried to stop.

President Biden now has the opportunity to stop it. The Democrats have control of the house and a narrow margin in the Senate. They can do it.

Melanchthon

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Swing and a miss

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/22/tweets/social-media-users-push-evidence-free-claim-joe-bi/

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I honestly cannot how understand how people can have so much confidence as to spend their time typing out a post about their opinions and yet do not have the time to spend 30 seconds first Googling to see if such nonsense has not already been debunked countless times so as to not embarrass themselves.

The burden of proof is on the speaker, however. The videos shared on YouTube and Twitter did not provide conclusive evidence that Biden was following instructions from an earpiece. We saw no credible reports that he was wearing one as he entered the Capitol, either

.....
Journalist Keith Olbermann, Washington Post reporter Dave Weigel and other social media users separately tweeted that they heard Biden say, "Good looking Marines."

"That’s a more reasonable explanation tha(n) ‘Biden had a secret earpiece yesterday, only once accidentally repeated his Deep State instructions, and a random guy noticed it,’" Weigel, who often debunks manipulated media through his Twitter feed, wrote in a second tweet.
.

Did people read the article it's not exactly proving it wrong either, definitely not enough to declare it fully False.
Like it's rebuttal is basically that a Washington Post journalist says he hears "good looking marines" .

That's the problem with a lot of these fact checking sites declare stuff False or True not with actually analysis but with others opinion.

This Forbes article is pretty good, it breaks down a high profile judgement call by Politifact, which ended with them contradicting themselves, and having to roll back on their claims. They did it after the politically sensitive time for the Democrats though.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/12/27/in-2008-politifacts-2013-lie-of-the-year-that-you-could-keep-your-health-plan-under-obamacare-it-rated-true/

Professor Moriarty

Hmm. In the context of international affairs, let's look at the character of both men as their primary guiding principle when they make diplomatic and military decisions

Biden: Has gone through personal tragedies with great dignity and has maintained a principled personal and political mindset throughout his life. A person of genuine personal faith. A man whose rhetoric always has the greater good at its core. A man who has always remained faithful to family and friends.

And Trump.

namloc1980

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

President Biden now has the opportunity to stop it. The Democrats have control of the house and a narrow margin in the Senate. They can do it.

.

Blinken says they will so I presume are you happy now.

Now back to the last administration. I don't recall you calling for Trump to withdraw support for the Yemen war. Do you condemn him for expanding arms sales to Saudi Arabia to use in their war in Yemen or his expansion of drone strikes in Yemen or his decision to veto a bipartisan effort to withdraw the US from the Yemen war in 2019?? Why are you suddenly interested in Yemen?

Melanchthon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Hmm. In the context of international affairs, let's look at the character of both men as their primary guiding principle when they make diplomatic and military decisions

Biden: Has gone through personal tragedies with great dignity and has maintained a principled personal and political mindset throughout his life. A person of genuine personal faith. A man whose rhetoric always has the greater good at its core. A man who has always remained faithful to family and friends.

And Trump.

I don't think that's very useful way of looking at impact on International Affairs at all
Look at say Tony Blair, I actually think he was a very effective politician but he had genuinely heart felt beliefs about the positives of armed western/NATO intervention, the result despite his being overall a decent dude and genuinely believing he was doing the moral thing was pretty negative.
Someone like Henry Kissinger was utterly cynical but was very effective about achieving his policy goals (you can argue if that was good or bad but he achieved the results he wanted).

Pa ElGrande

Pa ElGrande wrote: »

President Biden now has the opportunity to stop it. The Democrats have control of the house and a narrow margin in the Senate. They can do it.

Thing is just outright leaving a region at this point simply isn't an option. What happens is you either have private military contractors take over or end up creating cybill war like conditions. Neither is good so involvement is a matter of life to some degree.

Timberrrrrrrr

Samsonsmasher wrote: »

Biden and Austin his Secretary of Defence who was employed by Raytheon who make the bombs the Saudis use in Yemen are not going to change US policy are they?

You're equating 4 days of Bidens presidency to Trumps 4 years.

Trump could have stopped the famine in a week sent aid/food and refused to sell arms to Saudi's yet here you are whinging that Biden hasn't done anything. You're also claiming nothing will be done, are you psychic?

Professor Moriarty

Melanchthon wrote: »

I don't think that's very useful way of looking at impact on International Affairs at all
Look at say Tony Blair, I actually think he was a very effective politician but he had genuinely heart felt beliefs about the positives of armed western/NATO intervention, the result despite his being overall a decent dude and genuinely believing he was doing the moral thing was pretty negative.
Someone like Henry Kissinger was utterly cynical but was very effective about achieving his policy goals (you can argue if that was good or bad but he achieved the results he wanted).

Nobody is perfect, and in that context, it's a binary choice. If you take a giant step back and look at the personal history, behaviour and rhetoric of both men, which man would you choose to lead US international affairs?

Professor Moriarty

Water John wrote: »

If you refrain from using such pronouns, someone might take your point as genuine and discuss.

Somebody didn't read the charter. Exit stage left in 3...2...1...

Trump was against sending aid to the US territory of Puerto Rico.
Yet some posters want us to believe he cared about impoverished citizens in Africa or Asia?

Cody montana

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Trump was against sending aid to the US territory of Puerto Rico.
Yet some posters want us to believe he cared about impoverished citizens in Africa or Asia?

Never mind P.R., he didn’t care about how many Americans he infected at his rallies.

Professor Moriarty

Deleted User wrote: »

Trump was against sending aid to the US territory of Puerto Rico.
Yet some posters want us to believe he cared about impoverished citizens in Africa or Asia?

Trump should be prosecuted for what he did to the Kurds. The irony is that in abandoning them, he caused thousands of ISIS fighters to escape captivity. My guess is that Biden will try to repair that damage as best he can.

PalLimerick

Bidens administration will be a disaster and time will prove that.

Makes masks mandatory on Federal property, caught almost instantly without a mask on Federal property.

Professor Moriarty

PalLimerick wrote: »

Bidens administration will be a disaster and time will prove that.

Makes masks mandatory on Federal property, caught almost instantly without a mask on Federal property.

Sure. That all you got?

Cody montana

PalLimerick wrote: »

Bidens administration will be a disaster and time will prove that.

Makes masks mandatory on Federal property, caught almost instantly without a mask on Federal property.

Omg, no!
How could he?
In an empty building!
Start the impeachment.

Did you hear he wears a Rolex?

flazio

Beasty wrote: »

Anyone making references such as "Sleepy Joe" and the like will be threadbanned in addition to possible further sanction. There is no need for any of that sort of stuff - this is to discuss his presidency. His policies. His interactions with Congress, the Senate, State Governors, other Governments. It's not to discuss the likes of Hunter Biden. Keep this thread clean from all that other crap.

Anyway, as you were.

PalLimerick

PalLimerick wrote: »

Bidens administration will be a disaster and time will prove that.

Makes masks mandatory on Federal property, caught almost instantly without a mask on Federal property.

He was standing on his own.... Which is allowed under the rules.

landofthetree

Cody montana wrote: »

Great news, that's what the people voted for.
Protection of the environment and movement towards new green jobs.

Well done Biden.
Refreshing to have him in charge.
Hopefully more to come, including expansion of protected areas.

All that will happen is the US will buy oil from Russia, Iraq or Venezuela.

It’s also the case that when Alberta heavy oil is blocked, the U.S. must turn to other heavy oil suppliers, such as Latin American countries, which are already maxed out on exports, Venezuela, which is under sanction, and Iraq. Alhajji said dryly, “Iraq and Venezuela, two countries that are known for their highest environmental standards in the world! Right?”

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/david-staples-will-the-united-states-choose-alberta-crude-or-go-with-massive-job-losses-and-dictator-oil/wcm/2e1064eb-c91f-4a20-8693-075165564ff9/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/environment_energy/voters_oppose_biden_s_keystone_xl_pipeline_decision_expect_higher_gas_prices

landofthetree

PalLimerick wrote: »

Bidens administration will be a disaster and time will prove that.

Makes masks mandatory on Federal property, caught almost instantly without a mask on Federal property.

Every democratic president has been a disaster post WW2. All war criminals for starters.

Biden will be up with the worst of them.

extra gravy

Cody montana wrote: »

Omg, no!
How could he?
In an empty building!
Start the impeachment.

Did you hear he wears a Rolex?

I heard he was even on his fancy bike exercising and wasn't wearing a mask. Disgraceful!

Tell me how

landofthetree wrote: »

Every democratic president has been a disaster post WW2. All war criminals for starters.

Biden will be up with the worst of them.

How was Clinton a war criminal? He intervened in the former Yugoslavia where genocide was being carried out.
How was Obama a war criminal? He intervened in Libya where Gaddafi was bombing his own people.

Bear in mind Bush Snr launched the 1st Gulf war, Bush Jnr the 2nd (and afghanistan). Trump tried, but thankfully failed to start a war in the US. He also carried on in the same way Obama had done but stopped reporting these activities.

Looking forward to seeing your answer.

Pa ElGrande

namloc1980 wrote: »

.

Blinken says they will so I presume are you happy now.

Now back to the last administration. I don't recall you calling for Trump to withdraw support for the Yemen war. Do you condemn him for expanding arms sales to Saudi Arabia to use in their war in Yemen or his expansion of drone strikes in Yemen or his decision to veto a bipartisan effort to withdraw the US from the Yemen war in 2019?? Why are you suddenly interested in Yemen?

Blinken might, I expect this is a situation where he makes all the right gestures like President Trump did, and I did agree in 2016 with Trumps instincts about the obsolescence of NATO, the folly of the permanent war, the pointless Neocon attacks on Russia, the abject failure of regime change interventions were all correct and he got peoples votes on that. In reality during his term he made f*ck all difference, he even presided over increased budgets and wages for the military, in the end, the pentagon was able, without much effort, to massage his narcissistic ego and he instead went went for nationalist bombast and militaristic grandeur. He failed to deliver on his election promises.


Trump is gone. He has all the right enemies, that was his appeal, but, he was more interested in posing, and in his term he did little good and much wrong. Could he have done things differently? maybe, but on balance probably not, he did not have any backing within the establishment, compared to the Reagan presidency that had their people in place when he got elected and were able to successfully pursue a lot of their agenda. Trump parachuted into the oval office on the back of blunders by the Clinton campaign in concert with the media, who emphasised The Donald, that knocked out Jeb Bush and co., and the campaign took the voters in the Northern states for granted.

President Biden is presented as an established politician with all the right credentials and the antidote to President Trump. Where Trump vetoed Yemen in pursuit of the war with Iran, President Bidens administration can easily get cross party support to actually do something positive for the people in Yemen. It will not cost him any votes as the cross partisan support is there and it presents an easy political win given the antagonism between the two sides. Why my interest in Yemen on boards now? , the people in Yemen are being punished because of an ideological war between Iran and Saudi Arabia, with change in US administration there is now a window to act.

Melanchthon

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nobody is perfect, and in that context, it's a binary choice. If you take a giant step back and look at the personal history, behaviour and rhetoric of both men, which man would you choose to lead US international affairs?

My point is that the personality, history and so on is irrelevant to international affairs.
Look at the last couple of presidents and how their foreign policy benefited the USA geopolitical position.

Trump- actually not bad on international affairs in substance, ignore the surface scandals and rhetoric looking at it dispassionately he doesn't have as many actual failures as Obama did. Edit the killing of the Iranian general in Iraq is a good example, loads of worthy column inches and hysterical Twitter posts about how it was a huge mistake, in the end though it was a win for the US and it weakened Iran.

Obama- was charismatic, but failed utterly in relation to containing Chinese influence, wasn't particularly successful in resolving the middle Eastern messes and had the rise of Isis under his watch. Laughed of Russia which is deeply ironic considering how the democrats have spent the Trump years talking up their threat. Libya was a disaster for his European allies (french are too blame here too though).

GW Bush - Bad, didn't think through the interventions

Clinton - Pretty good in general, he might have bombed some places needlessly but he didn't cost many american lives or weaken the US position.

Both GW Bush and Obama were personally nicer more moral people than Bill Clinton and Trump but both were better on foreign policy.

Overheal

landofthetree wrote: »

https://www.westernjournal.com/3-unions-endorsed-biden-seem-like-already-regretting/amp/?__twitter_impression=true




Biden doesnt care about working class people.

All 35 permanent jobs, RIP :rolleyes:

Cody montana

landofthetree wrote: »

All that will happen is the US will buy oil from Russia, Iraq or Venezuela.




https://edmontonjournal.com/news/politics/david-staples-will-the-united-states-choose-alberta-crude-or-go-with-massive-job-losses-and-dictator-oil/wcm/2e1064eb-c91f-4a20-8693-075165564ff9/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/environment_energy/voters_oppose_biden_s_keystone_xl_pipeline_decision_expect_higher_gas_prices

I’m pretty certain the USA already imports oil from foreign countries.

Cody montana

landofthetree wrote: »

Every democratic president has been a disaster post WW2. All war criminals for starters.

Biden will be up with the worst of them.

What about Bush?
The guy that started 2 wars?

Professor Moriarty

Melanchthon wrote: »

My point is that the personality, history and so on is irrelevant to international affairs.
Look at the last couple of presidents and how their foreign policy benefited the USA geopolitical position.

Trump- actually not bad on international affairs in substance, ignore the surface scandals and rhetoric looking at it dispassionately he doesn't have as many actual failures as Obama did.

Obama- was charismatic, but failed utterly in relation to containing Chinese influence, wasn't particularly successful in resolving the middle Eastern messes and had the rise of Isis under his watch. Laughed of Russia which is deeply ironic considering how the democrats have spent the Trump years talking up their threat. Libya was a disaster for his European allies (french are too blame here too though).

GW Bush - Bad, didn't think through the interventions

Clinton - Pretty good in general, he might have bombed some places needlessly but he didn't cost many american lives or weaken the US position.

Both GW Bush and Obama were personally nicer more moral people than Bill Clinton and Trump but both were better on foreign policy.

Look at Trump's performance. Alienated the EU and started a trade war. Constantly insulted China and started a trade war. Stabbed the Kurds in the back. Was made a fool of by North Korea. Tried to bully Mexico and Canada. Sold arms to Saudi Arabia and look what they did with them. And so on. The important part of all these decisions is that they were based on egotism not principle. His only guiding principles were: Can I gain personal advantage here? Will this make me look good? There were no other principles involved. No thought of people or country. Zero.

Overheal

Cody montana wrote: »

I’m pretty certain the USA already imports oil from foreign countries.

Correct. But net exports became net imports right around the end of Obamas presidency.

The biggest consumption of fuel is passenger vehicles and the push for renewables + EVs is the right way forward.

rossie1977

landofthetree wrote: »

Every democratic president has been a disaster post WW2. All war criminals for starters.

Biden will be up with the worst of them.

Yes every Democratic president....



Truman, JFK, Clinton and Obama all rank high by historian scholars. Nixon, Bush Jr and Trump among lowest ranked of all time presidents. Reagan was smooth talker but make no mistake his 8 years greatly hurt America and led all the wealth moving to top.

dwayneshintzy

rossie1977 wrote: »

Yes every Democratic president....

Literally no point posting something like this for some people......they just use it as further evidence that Democrats are more dishonest and have simply "got away with it" more than Republicans.

Cody montana

Overheal wrote: »

Correct. But net exports became net imports right around the end of Obamas presidency.

The biggest consumption of fuel is passenger vehicles and the push for renewables + EVs is the right way forward.

Indeed.
Change is hopefully coming.
Biden promised green jobs, he needs to deliver now.
Cancellation of the pipeline was a start.

Overheal

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Literally no point posting something like this for some people......they just use it as further evidence that Democrats are more dishonest and have simply "got away with it" more than Republicans.

Or that Republicans “did what had to be done for the country etc”