Joe Biden Presidency thread *Please read OP - Threadbanned Users Added 4/5/21*

The president has little effect on the unemployment rate. With the exception of the pandemic, it's been on the same downward trend since the last recession.

or, as certain posters would like to put it

Cody montana

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994016#Comment_117994016

And we are discussing it like adults.

Not dropping comments and fleeing.

The other side are blaming it on vaccine mandates btw.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993951#Comment_117993951

Well, Trump certainly must take a huge amount of blame. Firstly for downplaying the situation, then by politcising it, for continuing to name call it the ChinaVirus in order to mask the US shortcomings and finally for refusing to endorse vaccinations. He has a huge amount of control over his followers, if he was thinking of the US, rather than himself, he would come out and staunchly back vaccinations.

Not the mealy mouth "get it if you want, but don't let them tell you want to do' messing he does.

To watch a man that tried to win an election on the back of his delivering a vaccine, bemoaning that it didn't arrive in time to save his election, to now be at best agnostic about it is completely his fault.

But this is not the Trump thread so the fault for not taking it lies, of course, with those people that are too selfish to realise that their desire to be free is costing the entire country. Hence my original question.

When will the rest of the country, those that have taken the vaccine, start to hold those that refuse to help in the fight accountable?

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993722#Comment_117993722

What matters is if decision makers make changes. Short of mandating vaccines for everyone in the US, what more can be done? Direct hospitals to deprioritize unvaccinated patients arriving with Covid symptoms? Financial incentives to get vaccinated? Restrict the unvaccinated from most social activities (movies, dinners out, sporting events?) Reduce insurance compensation for Covid-related expenses when unvaccinated? These might help some.

Pretty much all of those things are already happening - Hospitals are now removing people from transplant lists if they aren't vaccinated for example.

The damage is done sadly in terms of the mindset of these people.

Having said that , the evidence is that mandates work - Huge increase in vaccinations in places with mandates in place like NYC Healthcare workers etc.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994237#Comment_117994237

Problem is, states make most of the decisions, and some would rather sacrifice public health than mandate vaccines. Not for any good reason other than... well, political success in theory. Probably the strongest argument ever in favor of nationalized health in the US; what do you do if at the state level, the states start going against public health measures? Pretty much the much feared death panels are GQP-controlled State legislatures mandating against mask requirements and vaccine requirements. Crazy Sarah Palin was, in the end, right, but not the way she meant to be right.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994174#Comment_117994174

Hopefully not any time soon. Would you be in favour of forced vaccines?

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994378#Comment_117994378

I would be in favour of reasonable grounds for refusing. The vaccines are safe.

Claiming 5g, Wifi, Bill Gates, its all a nonsense. If people have valid concerns then they should be able to see the evidence to assuage thos concerns. The problem is that facts have nothing to do with this. As it continues to have a negative impact on the States then at some point forcing people to take a vaccine for the betterment of everyone will start to become a realistic option.

The alternative, as is the case now, is that those that refuse vaccines start to be excluded from many events. But of course the very people that claim they should have the freedom to refuse are the very people that will cry out when others refuse them access.

As many Trump supporters love to point out to people that didn't like Trump, if you don't like it move to somewhere else!

I hope for the countries sake that people do start to turn against those that profess to love their country but are not willing to even do the tiniest thing to help their country. At some point the country may need to decide that there is little point waiting for them and they need to be actively coerced of removed from potentially harming others.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994491#Comment_117994491

I agree that the bill gates 5g nonsense is ridiculous, but I certainly would never advocate for needing "reasonable grounds" for not taking this vaccine.

Who decides the reasonable grounds?

I'm vaccinated btw so I'm not anti Vax in any way, but to declare that the vaccine is definitely safe is very premature. Would you give a newborn this vaccine?

*Edit Sorry, probably more suited to the covid thread. Sorry for taking it off topic

everlast75

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994559#Comment_117994559

It's risk versus reward.

Do the benefits of giving the vaccine to a newborn outweigh the risks?

That's how decisions should be made.

You're old enough to know that for you, in all liklihood (save a medical issue which you haven't mentioned) the overwhelming medical opinion is that the benefit outweighs the risk and therefore, to protect others and yourself, you should get the vaccine.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994559#Comment_117994559

If enough newborns had received it and the results were that it was overwhlemingly safe, then yes. IN the same way that I gave my children the other vaccines.

I have no way of being able to ascertain, outside of the published results, whether any medicine is safe. But we place our trust in those experts skilled and schooled in these areas to provide us with the safety. Just like I put my trust in the airplane pilot, or the surgeon.

If these people really believe that the vaccines are unsafe, then the logical extension to that is they can't trust any medicine, or pilots or the education system, or the water, or restaurants. When do they stop?

Because they do trust all of them, and they would take the vaccine if Trump said it was safe. Of course there will be those that don't, it is the same for blood transfusions, other vaccines etc. And a tiny minority is acceptable. But as huge swath of a country refusing for no particular reason is simply not acceptable

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994576#Comment_117994576

The vaccine is definitely as safe as any other vaccine for those who it has been approved for, and there is nothing premature about that statement. Long term side effects from vaccines in general is not a thing.

I would gladly give it to a newborn if and when trials and data deem it safe for a newborn.

charlie_says

Which is better?

Love Trump's Hate!

Let's go Brandon!

Melanchthon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994583#Comment_117994583

That's not a fair assumption in relation to the Covid vaccines at all. And I say this as somebody that was vaccinated with Astra Zeneca/Oxford * (if your arsed you can check my post history). The Covid vaccines have had a rushed approval process, didn't one of the Scandinavian countries just restrict usage for younger people of moderna? The problem from the US from the outside seems to be that you have liberal people going " your teenager need to get the vaccine- your a monster if you don't" and despite saying they follow the science say things like " the unvaccinated are putting everyone's lives at risk", forgetting delta had happened so all those calculations are screwed, and fifty something year old right-wingers weighing 120 kilo saying Covid is just the flu, despite trump who they apparently worshipped saying they should get it.

I mentioned this earlier in a post but the CDC really hasnt been great throughout this, they don't seem to be doing much of their own studies.

* I know it wasn't ever approved in the USA as far as I know but using it to illustrate a point.

Leroy42

Yeah, I see your point and I certainly don' want to get into a debate about vaccines. My point is that Trump has a lot to answer for. He hobbled the pandemic response team, took observers out of China etc all before it happened. Then when it did he minimised it and downplayed it and helped feed the conspiracy theories.

The CDC didn't do a great job, but how much were they let? By all accounts the reason the vaccines got done as fast was pretty much Trump stood back and let those that knew what they were doing at it. He constantly undermined the head of the CDC and was, again, a leading voice in the call for his removal. Under those circumstances it is no wonder the CDC made mistakes, they must have been in complete fear of saying or doing anything that might be seen as even the slight bit against the rubbish Trump was spouting.

But now that Biden is POTUS, what can be done about the terible legacy that Trump left in terms of the atitude to vaccines and Covid as a whole?

Normally, like what happened in Ireland, calm discussion and letting people have the access to information and getting the experts to explain he benefits, and acknowledge he fears, will lead to a high take up. But it gone far beyond that in the US. There is little chance of talking these people down from their position. So Biden is faced with a choice. Continue to allow these people espose heir irrational belief and hold the rest of the country to ransom or do something about it.

eagle eye

As far as the vaccine is concerned, nobody has the right to force anybody to get a vaccine. As far as how safe they are, we won't know that for a couple of years as it takes that long to get enough data.

I'm vaccinated myself. I despise anti-vaxxers but I understand they have their rights just like I have mine.

What's ridiculous is things like the US tennis open where you had to present your vaccination cert to attend the event but anti-vax players were allowed play in the tournament. I think if you can ban them from taking part in big events you take away a lot of the leadership for anti-vaxxers and it may become less of a problem and I'm all in favour of that.

Quin_Dub

Whatever about the potential legitimacy of someone saying "I'm not taking it because I'm concerned about potential future issues" , Religious exemptions , which of course are a thing ONLY in the US are an utter nonsense.

Sweetemotion

I'm going to use your term "bluemaga". That made me laugh.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995971#Comment_117995971

Can you find an example of someone worth listing to changing their mind about the vaccine once Trump lost?

Not some random idiot on Twitter, both sides have idiots. The MAGA lads don’t have a monopoly on stupidity, they are just better at it.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996072#Comment_117996072

What’s funny about it?

Unless you accept every Trump supporter is an idiot. I don’t, but maybe you’re doing a “self own” here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117995971#Comment_117995971

Its amusing now that those who were so skeptical towards the virus totally changed their stance once Trump lost .

Who is doing this? Are you assuming many people are doing this because one poster found this obscure Tweet from a nobody and therefore it must be a common occurrence?

Josephfromdowntheroad

Mitch McConnell played a blinder this week.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117997786#Comment_117997786

Does that actually mean something? Are you saying, he won big on a bet? Because he didn't.

Sweetemotion

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996412#Comment_117996412

Why would I have to accept "Every Trump supporter is an idiot" to find it funny?

Bluemaga crowd seems quite apt for some here, I've never heard the phrase before and it me laugh.

What's the point in replying anyway?

My post will just get deleted.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117999397#Comment_117999397

i think I know the implication of “Bluemaga”, idiots on the Dem side who are as deep in the Biden cult as the MAGA crowd are for Trump. Is that correct?

Overheal

Ah yes, conservatives love their slickly spliced versions of events better than reality still.

The Spin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XG42z2RSMQ

The Reality:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?513190-101/president-biden-visits-orchard-market-michigan

Melanchthon

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/10/biden-administration-delivers-brusque-message-to-pakistan

Seems a weird move, why put the pressure on Pakistan after the disaster withdrawal. The Pakistan thing is 100% a failure of previous presidents and Trump made it worse, but as a move it doesn't make sense, American troops are no longer at risk they should be trying to keep Pakistan onside with a carrot and stick approach shouldn't be pushing them completely into the China sphere.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118001268#Comment_118001268

It's pretty much there in the first paragraph, they're getting closer to India which puts Pakistan down the pecking order, without the Afghanistan noose around their neck, Pakistan will need to be much more up front themselves about improving the relationship.

I don't really see China and Pakistan getting on that well, barring a few trade and economic deals. Pakistan is openly courting the Taliban, it will only end in tears for them.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117999776#Comment_117999776

Wait until you found out who Joy Reid is.

On the above question, Joy who is probably as relevant on the left as Tucker and others were very skeptical of the vaccines because they did not want to give Trump a "win.

It was a stupid policy because it did sow distrust in them and it was not fair on the people who worked on an astonishingly effective vaccine who for the most part probably loathed Trump.

Its a mess really, Trump bragged about the vaccine for ages and so many of his supporters won't take it, and now we have governors like Noem and Newsom etc who are merely playing to their most partisan base with half an eye on president runs in the future.

Regarding partisans, yeah their is a lot online who fanatics when it comes to Biden as that is where the money is. The numerous ex "conservatives" Jennifer Rubin, Kristol etc.

So dull sadly.

Josephfromdowntheroad

The coronavirus death toll in 2021 has exceeded that of 2020. Last year, 352,000 people were reported as dying from Covid in March to December. This year, 353,000 have died.

Bidens predecessor had no vaccines was heavily criticized about the death toll and dont forget the on screen CNN death counter.

Is it fair to say Biden has just as equally failed if not worse considering he had vaccines?

I think the numbers certainly indicate this.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118006836#Comment_118006836

No, there is a more transmissible variant in 2021, and you are fully aware of that.