Munster v Leinster Build Up Thread

shootermacg · 23-01-2021 10:57pm

Clegg wrote: »

Stander is rather ineffective as a carrier. Didn't lose the ball when taking contact or get dumped behind the gain line. But he didn't make many metres either.

Dorris is rather ineffective as a carrier, and Ruddock. Coombes to be jettisoned into the Irish squad.

Burkie1203 · 23-01-2021 10:57pm

Buer wrote: »

Ryan had an incredible game in all facets. He carried the Leinster pack at times. Hard to name another Leinster forward who really had a strong game. Some were solid but he was way, way above.

Porter 80 minutes
Doris was good
Fardy Connors and Ruddock put in some big tackles

Set piece was good.

clsmooth · 23-01-2021 10:58pm

Clegg wrote: »

Stander is rather ineffective as a carrier. Didn't lose the ball when taking contact or get dumped behind the gain line. But he didn't make many metres either.

Pretty sure Luke McGrath stopped him dead when he had a little head of steam at one stage in the first half.

Burkie1203 · 23-01-2021 10:58pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Missed six points from a guy that shouldn't have gotten a start. So yeah, while you're right, you're also a dick

Maybe JVG is the dick?

Sanjuro · 23-01-2021 10:58pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Dorris is rather ineffective as a carrier, and Ruddock. Coombes to be jettisoned into the Irish squad.

How can something be jettisoned "into" something?

shootermacg · 23-01-2021 11:00pm

Sanjuro wrote: »

How can something be jettisoned "into" something?

Ever fall out of a boat into the sea?

clsmooth · 23-01-2021 11:01pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Missed six points from a guy that shouldn't have gotten a start. So yeah, while you're right, you're also a dick

A bit unnecessary. He answered your statement with facts

Would have been nice to see Healy get a few more minutes mind you.

Burkie1203 · 23-01-2021 11:02pm

clsmooth wrote: »

Pretty sure Luke McGrath stopped him dead when he had a little head of steam at one stage in the first half.

Keenan i thought?

Clegg · 23-01-2021 11:05pm

clsmooth wrote: »

Pretty sure Luke McGrath stopped him dead when he had a little head of steam at one stage in the first half.

Will live in infamy alongside the time when Kleyn failed to clear JGP from a ruck.

Munsterbhoy · 23-01-2021 11:05pm

Clegg wrote: »

I think there was a collective panic after Leinster went ahead. Casey needed one of the senior players to tell him to play, but that call didn't come.

I think it was his instructions from the coaches because it's certainly not his natural game. Box kick was effective for long periods but chasing the game in the last 5min and resorting to that!! Lots of positives for Munster but against your benchmark team it's all about the result

clsmooth · 23-01-2021 11:05pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Keenan i thought?

Could well be. It was definitely someone you would have backed Stander to have dominated in that particular situation.

arsebiscuits1 · 23-01-2021 11:09pm

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

I think that was worst decision of all. He is going to be way off the pace and all the more reason for a Munster win

How'd that prediction go for you about Ringrose there Elisa?

Spoofer confirmed

ElisaAtWar · 23-01-2021 11:12pm

awec wrote: »

Stop picking Hanrahan please.

That is so true. But you need to bang your head against a wall many times before it registers at Munster

ElisaAtWar · 23-01-2021 11:15pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

How'd that prediction go for you about Ringrose there Elisa?

Spoofer confirmed

Ringrose was alright

ElisaAtWar · 23-01-2021 11:16pm

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

Ringrose was alright

Nothing more than that

arsebiscuits1 · 23-01-2021 11:30pm

ElisaAtWar wrote: »

Nothing more than that

Was he way off the pace and all the more reason for a Munster win

aloooof · 23-01-2021 11:34pm

This places really turns into a bit of a sewer on the evening of Munster Leinster games...

My main takeaway from 2nite is that’s a really poor result for Ireland. Particularly with regards the lineout, it really mis-fired for both teams in an area where we’ve struggled in green recently.

Burkie1203 · 23-01-2021 11:37pm

James Ryan

16 carries
29 tackles

23-01-2021 11:40pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Dorris is rather ineffective as a carrier, and Ruddock. Coombes to be jettisoned into the Irish squad.

Both Ruddock and Doris made more metres from fewer carries than Stander, any thoughts beyond Munster good Leinster bad?

bennyl10 · 23-01-2021 11:42pm

Miller Dirty Selenium wrote: »

Both Ruddock and Doris made more metres from fewer carries than Stander, any thoughts beyond Munster good Leinster bad?

Stander seemed to do alot more throughout the game than Ruddock tonight

Doris had a great game as per

arsebiscuits1 · 23-01-2021 11:42pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

James Ryan

16 carries
29 tackles

Came here to quote that.

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/match-statistics/?FixGuid=20ML8585

Back up the ****ing bus here.

Is it possible for a second row to make that many tackles?

I'd wager his impact tackles were through the roof too.

Shout out to Porter who made 24 too.

Incredible from a tighthead

almostover · 23-01-2021 11:45pm

Watching the game on TG4 right now. Why KOB wasnt in the 23 for Munster is beyond me. Rhys Marshall is having a mare at the lineout. JJ needs to be given the P45. He shanks a handy penalty from 15m out and follows up by kicking a pen from hand from 5m outside the 22 about 5m inside the 22. Carbery can't come back fast enough and Healy needs to be his deputy. Hanrahan has choked too many times at the highest level.

almostover · 23-01-2021 11:46pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Came here to quote that.

https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/match-statistics/?FixGuid=20ML8585

Back up the ****ing bus here.

Is it possible for a second row to make that many tackles?

I'd wager his impact tackles were through the roof too.

Shout out to Porter who made 24 too.

Incredible from a tighthead

It's important from an Ireland perspective, Ryan finding form again is critical for our chances. Beirne playing well too. Should be our lock pairing.

thomond2006 · 23-01-2021 11:46pm

mfceiling wrote: »

I still thought he was very slow at getting the ball away at times especially when he's getting ready to box kick. In fairness the caterpillar carry on is getting beyond a joke at this stage.

Ball at the back, scrum half pulls ball back with foot. Another forward joins and scrum half drags ball back. Another player joins and scrum half drags it back further. It's a parasite on the game.

Murray was great tonight. He had Larmour in the absolute horrors. He put in a few tactical kicks at the right moments.

The caterpillar stuff is indeed a joke but as long as it's there Murray will take advantage of it.

arsebiscuits1 · 23-01-2021 11:49pm

almostover wrote: »

It's important from an Ireland perspective, Ryan finding form again is critical for our chances. Beirne playing well too. Should be our lock pairing.

Hard to argue based on tonight.

Ryan can get through so much work and Beirne offers a genuine point of difference with his stealing ability. He's no slouch in the air either.

I still haven't seen enough of Henderson in the last few years to say he should be in the 4 shirt ahead of the likes of Beirne

thomond2006 · 23-01-2021 11:50pm

Ryan and Beirne were the standouts but Coombes continues to impress. Ireland should be looking at him.

I'm very frustrated after that. Munster engaged in self-sabotage. The JJ miss was unacceptable and the Wycherley offside penalty which gave Leinster the lineout for their try was headless. Leinster were about to kick the ball back to us and instead got the penalty. At the same time, Munster's defence was by and large superb. To hold Leinster to zero points from two separate occasions of being camped on their own line was excellent.

stephen_n · 23-01-2021 11:52pm

shootermacg wrote: »

Dorris is rather ineffective as a carrier, and Ruddock. Coombes to be jettisoned into the Irish squad.

You clearly don’t know the difference between ineffective and affective or the meaning of the word jettisoned. Not majorly surprising given your other comments tonight.

arsebiscuits1 · 23-01-2021 11:53pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Ryan and Beirne were the standouts but Coombes continues to impress. Ireland should be looking at him.

His trajectory has been borderline meteoric this season.

But hes nowhere near what CJ and Doris offer at 8 and Ruddock was the superior 6 on the pitch tonight. His time will come though.

Promising to see a player that young thrive in such high standard games

aloooof · 23-01-2021 11:55pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

Murray was great tonight. He had Larmour in the absolute horrors. He put in a few tactical kicks at the right moments.

The caterpillar stuff is indeed a joke but as long as it's there Murray will take advantage of it.

Murray was MOTM for me 2nite. People complain about his box kicks, but they were excellent 2nite, and I’d wager Munster won a higher % of them back than they did their own line outs. (Which is as much an indictment of Munster’s lineout as it is Praise Murray’s box kick tbh).

But added to that, he also had a number of snipes 2nite again, which was great to see.

He’s also among the best at identifying when the ball is out at the base on opposition ball. He affected 2 turnovers 2nite from that alone. We’ve even seen him score a try from that in the past, he’s a really smart player in that regard.

arsebiscuits1 · 23-01-2021 11:56pm

Murray's box kicking was on the money tonight. Really accurate and effective.

Mcgrath for all the plaudits he is getting was nowhere near his standard and Casey was several leagues below both.

Murray still the standout 9 in Ireland. Excellent performance tonight

almostover · 23-01-2021 11:58pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

His trajectory has been borderline meteoric this season.

But hes nowhere near what CJ and Doris offer at 8 and Ruddock was the superior 6 on the pitch tonight

Coombes edged Ruddock tonight on performance. His carries were more impactful. He has a lot of potential. Needs to be in the 6N squad at a minimum. We dont make too many like him. 6' 6" and 17.5st. That's SA size back row. He has good hands, is a strong carrier and will improve with experience.

TomsOnTheRoof · 23-01-2021 11:59pm

From an Ireland POV

Winners

Beirne
Coombes
POM (another good performance at openside)
Haley
James Ryan (best game he's played in a long time)
Henshaw
Ringrose (looked to be back fit)

Losers

Cronin
Marshall
Hanrahan
Farrell
Ruddock
Connors (stats may prove me wrong but apart from tackling it's difficult to see what he brings)
McGrath
There's an argument for adding Keenan but in all likelihood there's zero chance of him being dropped, especially for Haley.

Clegg · 24-01-2021 12:02am

Don't think there's any argument for Keenan to be in the losers category. He had another fine game. The winning try doesn't happen without his offload.

Larmour had a mixed game. Was targeted repeatedly by box kicks and couldn't gather them. But scythed through Earls for the try and out in some lovely kicks.

Munster's wings had poor games. Not so much from individual effort but rather team tactics which saw them isolated from the action. Earls carried the ball for 8 metres and Daly made 2 metres. They weren't used.

thomond2006 · 24-01-2021 12:03am

Larmour is one of the bigger losers. He got his try and had a nice kick through where Leinster earned a 5m scrum but he had a horror show in the air.

TomsOnTheRoof · 24-01-2021 12:03am

Clegg wrote: »

Don't think there's any argument for Keenan to be in the losers category. He had another fine game. The winning try doesn't happen without his offload.

I thought he came out second best to Haley but like I said it isn't a big deal. Not a hope in hell he gets dropped and Haley's brought in.

TomsOnTheRoof · 24-01-2021 12:04am

That's a fair point on Larmour. With everyone fit there's a strong argument for him not making the Irish 23.

almostover · 24-01-2021 12:05am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Larmour is one of the bigger losers. He got his try and had a nice kick through where Leinster earned a 5m scrum but he had a horror show in the air.

Was the only player who looked like breaking the line on the pitch tonight. He was manure in the air but he won Leinster the game.

almostover · 24-01-2021 12:09am

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

From an Ireland POV

Winners

Beirne
Coombes
POM (another good performance at openside)
Haley
James Ryan (best game he's played in a long time)
Henshaw
Ringrose (looked to be back fit)

Losers

Cronin
Marshall
Hanrahan
Farrell
Ruddock
Connors (stats may prove me wrong but apart from tackling it's difficult to see what he brings)
McGrath
There's an argument for adding Keenan but in all likelihood there's zero chance of him being dropped, especially for Haley.

Have to agree on Connors. VdF in my eyes is a better option at 7 for Ireland. Offers more with ball in hand and works as hard in the tackle. POM will be the 7 for Ireland in the 6N however. Has found his form again.

For me the biggest worry heading into the 6N is the no.2 shirt. It's clear now why Rory Best was kept on so long. Monsters lineout lost them the game and Leinsters was no more than decent.

aloooof · 24-01-2021 12:09am

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Murray's box kicking was on the money tonight. Really accurate and effective.

Mcgrath for all the plaudits he is getting was nowhere near his standard and Casey was several leagues below both.

Murray still the standout 9 in Ireland. Excellent performance tonight

Casey was on for what, 6 minutes? Really harsh to judge him just on that. He’s been excellent this season overall.

thomond2006 · 24-01-2021 12:10am

almostover wrote: »

Was the only player who looked like breaking the line on the pitch tonight. He was manure in the air but he won Leinster the game.

I mean, he was on the end of the try. That's hardly winning the game.
Had Munster held on, Larmour's drops would have been a bigger story.

arsebiscuits1 · 24-01-2021 12:11am

almostover wrote: »

Coombes edged Ruddock tonight on performance. His carries were more impactful. He has a lot of potential. Needs to be in the 6N squad at a minimum. We dont make too many like him. 6' 6" and 17.5st. That's SA size back row. He has good hands, is a strong carrier and will improve with experience.

Stats don't really show that. Ruddock had more tackles, impact tackles, carries, metres and metres per carry. Also he took some excellent lineout ball. They were on the pitch for similar amounts of time.

Obviously Coombes will get a lot better which is encouraging where as Rhys is probably at his ceiling.

But as they are now I'd take Ruddock 8 days a week

CrazyFather1 · 24-01-2021 12:11am

thomond2006 wrote: »

Larmour is one of the bigger losers. He got his try and had a nice kick through where Leinster earned a 5m scrum but he had a horror show in the air.

Not the only one to be honest. Munster box kicking was good.
I don't like how people are always on Larmours back, he has been out for weeks and only coming back from an injury. Any mistake and people are all over him. He is still very young but he is one of the most skilful players in Ireland, maybe we should try to enjoy him instead of constantly trying to find fault

thomond2006 · 24-01-2021 12:12am

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Not the only one to be honest. Munster box kicking was good.
I don't like how people are always on Larmours back, he has been out for weeks and only coming back from an injury. Any mistake and people are all over him. He is still very young but he is one of the most skilful players in Ireland, maybe we should try to enjoy him instead of constantly trying to find fault

Larmour is a very good runner and his footwork is exceptional, however his ability in the air is a pretty glaring issue right now. Hopefully it's something he'll improve on.

almostover · 24-01-2021 12:13am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I mean, he was on the end of the try. That's hardly winning the game.
Had Munster held on, Larmour's drops would have been a bigger story.

Showed a lovely sidestep to finish and a few probing kicks in behind by him caused trouble for the Munster defence. Made a few decent linebreaks in the 1st half too.

TomsOnTheRoof · 24-01-2021 12:13am

almostover wrote: »

Have to agree on Connors. VdF in my eyes is a better option at 7 for Ireland. Offers more with ball in hand and works as hard in the tackle. POM will be the 7 for Ireland in the 6N however. Has found his form again.

For me the biggest worry heading into the 6N is the no.2 shirt. It's clear now why Rory Best was kept on so long. Monsters lineout lost them the game and Leinsters was no more than decent.

As a Munster fan I was beyond puzzled that O'Byrne missed out. For me he's someone that should be a lock in for any of the big games. Ireland could also do with having a look at him, he has great hands and his set piece work is excellent. I agree wholeheartedly that hooker is a massive worry.

aloooof · 24-01-2021 12:14am

Clegg wrote: »

Don't think there's any argument for Keenan to be in the losers category. He had another fine game. The winning try doesn't happen without his offload.

Larmour had a mixed game. Was targeted repeatedly by box kicks and couldn't gather them. But scythed through Earls for the try and out in some lovely kicks.

Munster's wings had poor games. Not so much from individual effort but rather team tactics which saw them isolated from the action. Earls carried the ball for 8 metres and Daly made 2 metres. They weren't used.

I think that’s a harsh assessment, particularly on Shane Daly tbh, who I thought had a very good game.

CrazyFather1 · 24-01-2021 12:14am

It was an enjoyable game. I think the weather conditions played a part. Great to watch any sort of rugby to be honest, any sport at all.
Was great to see two fullish strength teams go up against each other, pity it wasn't a lovely summers day to see exactly what they could do but enjoyable evening sport

arsebiscuits1 · 24-01-2021 12:15am

TomsOnTheRoof wrote: »

From an Ireland POV

Winners

Beirne
Coombes
POM (another good performance at openside)
Haley
James Ryan (best game he's played in a long time)
Henshaw
Ringrose (looked to be back fit)

Losers

Cronin
Marshall
Hanrahan
Farrell
Ruddock
Connors (stats may prove me wrong but apart from tackling it's difficult to see what he brings)
McGrath
There's an argument for adding Keenan but in all likelihood there's zero chance of him being dropped, especially for Haley.

I'd need to watch it again but Connors as a chop tackle specialist made 6 tackles in 60 minutes (i had him at 4 missed) this was the lowest amount of any Leinster forward bad Cronin (5)

He did carry a reasonable 10 times but overall I feel the game passed him by.

UAEguy2020 · 24-01-2021 12:16am

almostover wrote: »

Have to agree on Connors. VdF in my eyes is a better option at 7 for Ireland. Offers more with ball in hand and works as hard in the tackle. POM will be the 7 for Ireland in the 6N however. Has found his form again.

For me the biggest worry heading into the 6N is the no.2 shirt. It's clear now why Rory Best was kept on so long. Monsters lineout lost them the game and Leinsters was no more than decent.

The lineout was pretty rubbish even when Best was there.

almostover · 24-01-2021 12:16am

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Stats don't really show that. Ruddock had more tackles, impact tackles, carries, metres and metres per carry. Also he took some excellent lineout ball. They were on the pitch for similar amounts of time.

Obviously Coombes will get a lot better which is encouraging where as Rhys is probably at his ceiling.

But as they are now I'd take Ruddock 8 days a week

This is where Ireland selections have to change though. Ruddock is a safe bet for the 6N squad. Hardworking, abrasive and a decent lineout option. Coombes has the potential to be destructive and if I could criticise him he looks like his fitness is 5% or so off at this level. Easily remedied. Coombes is the selection if you want to go to RWC 2023 with a destructive option in the backrow. Him and Doris in the backrow would give us some heavy carrying options.

Munster v Leinster Build Up Thread

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