Starbucks ordered to pay customer €12,000 because of drawing on cup

Overheal

Hellotonever wrote: »

So either you take them to court and get called a snowflake

Or

You take direct action solving the problem then and there and get called insane.

You just cant win.

That’s right your only two options, either you take them to high court or you beat them to within an inch of their life and scald them with hot coffee. No other alternatives clearly exist.

gmisk

Bobblehats wrote: »

Yea what happened there did she forget it?

Regardless, happy time. Nice hot cup of coffee, no complaints....



- I suppose you might find offence if you know there’s 12k in it right?

Like I said it would depend on drawing and intention behind it.
I don't drink coffee or tea so extremely rare I am in a starbucks

Harry Palmr

The money is irrelevant with regard to the customers feeling. She didn't set the amount, Starbucks are huge corporate tax avoiding global company.

If it was a pittance it wouldn't be any sort of punishment, though you'd hope Starbucks = racist coverage would hit home!

I trust the employee has been sent on a quick enlightenment course.

46 Long

Hellotonever wrote: »

So either you take them to court and get called a snowflake

Or

You take direct action solving the problem then and there and get called insane.

You just cant win.

Or you shut up, drink your damn coffee and realize that the employee meant well and was not trying to offend. 'Racial abuse' my backside.

The Inbetween is mine

Hellotonever wrote: »

She's right to complain. Maybe 12k is too much. But she was dead right to speak out about this happening.

Dont give me this 'snowflake generation' crap either. If some English lad drew some paddy sh*t on my cup id slam his head on the counter and pour boiling coffee over his head.

Of course you would

Hellotonever

46 Long wrote: »

Or you shut up, drink your damn coffee and realize that the employee meant well and was not trying to offend. 'Racial abuse' my backside.

Nah man. Thats the weakling's way out.

You impose your will on other people because they have to learn their actions have consequences.

You draw a racist caricature, you get banged right away.

Thats just how it is in the pen.

Dont fret because thats how society is.

Everyone keep everyone in check.

pgj2015

one time a friend of mine (we will call him paddy) saw a picture on facebook of another friend of ours(sean), sean is an Irish guy dark hair,looks a bit chinese, he was in a picture with a chinese woman, paddy wrote which one is Chinese? under the picture lol. apparently the chinese woman was really insulted for some reason. I could never figure out why. was she not proud to be chinese or what? why would that be an insult?

Hellotonever

Overheal wrote: »

That’s right your only two options, either you take them to high court or you beat them to within an inch of their life and scald them with hot coffee. No other alternatives clearly exist.

Yeah I bet he's gonna care, or his manager is gonna care if you stood there and told em. Nah they wont.

But you can make them care by taking direct action, or by making their hire-ups care.

Now the lady in the story is a bit more nuanced so she took the legal route, but as I said. Some people would just take the direct route.

riffmongous

Bobblehats wrote: »

Yea what happened there did she forget it?

Regardless, happy time. Nice hot cup of coffee, no complaints....

According to the article she "interrupted" the customer while the woman was spelling her name to show the drawing.. i could imagine that definitely contributed to the woman feeling shocked

The employee made a pretty terrible show of herself here. The facts are a long way from the usual "pretend offence", it was an appalling way to treat someone tbh

Id personally rather the fine was by way of charitable donation but the amount and the finding are in no way out of line imo

Sleeper12

No doubt its a racist & insulting thing to do & I agree that the business should be fined but giving 12k to the victim is nuts.

Overheal

Hellotonever wrote: »

Yeah I bet he's gonna care, or his manager is gonna care if you stood there and told em. Nah they wont.

But you can make them care by taking direct action, or by making their hire-ups care.

Now the lady in the story is a bit more nuanced so she took the legal route, but as I said. Some people would just take the direct route.

Sure, Jan. Nobody sees the hollow bravado

Hellotonever

Overheal wrote: »

Sure, Jan. Nobody sees the hollow bravado

Who the f*ck is Jan?

Theres no bravado here. Im not proud of what I gotta do but thats how it is in the pen.

Chat sh*t, get banged.

Sinus pain

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

No, compo culture at play would be a person spilling coffee on themselves and suing a restaurant for burning them


Drawing an asian person as slanty eyed, is as good as drawing a minstrel on the cup for a black person.

I see no issue with this ruling...

I would have agreed with you - until I listened to this podcast - Mc Donald’s keep their coffee to hot to make them last longer and know it can scald and seriously damage people but they make more money than the lose doing it so continue to do it

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2RwsvOHfk63COef4Q9HtfR?si=CjA-vrugTay421Nr8Y8zFQ

James Brown

It's not what does or does not constitute racism. The woman took insult and it was deemed she had cause to.
If a fat lad went up and there was a doodle of a fat lad it would be the same thing IMO.

Bobblehats

Bowie wrote: »

It's not what does or does not constitute racism. The woman took insult and it was deemed she had cause to.
If a fat lad went up and there was a doodle of a fat lad it would be the same thing IMO.

Fatness isn’t a compliment.

Listen I’ve had smileys scribbled on food orders before. It felt uplifting, just to see it wtf was this woman’s problem???

SineadSpears

pgj2015 wrote: »

if I was in china and ordered a coffee in starbucks and they drew a pale red headed man with freckles on the cup, is that racist?

Nah it could be the language barrier. Maybe they would be just trying to tell you that you were 'glamorous' :pac:

Overheal

Bobblehats wrote: »

Fatness isn’t a compliment.

Listen I’ve had smileys scribbled on food orders before. It felt uplifting, just to see it wtf was this woman’s problem???

A ‘smiley’ with slanty eyes specially for an Asian customer in an Irish cafe.

That was the problem.

Bobblehats

Overheal wrote: »

A ‘smiley’ with slanty eyes specially for an Asian customer in an Irish cafe.

That was the problem.

Oh eggshells. Do we have to tailor specifics? Change our ways for these lot?

suicide_circus

Dont usually like compo culture nonsense but i've no real arguments with this one. What an absolute numpty that barista must be.

Mrsmum

I think 5 k would have covered it more than enough.

Hellotonever

Bobblehats wrote: »

Oh eggshells. Do we have to tailor specifics? Change our ways for these lot?

Just dont draw racist caricatures?

Some people slow to adapt cant seem to understand polite society.

But thats alright. Keep on keeping on. And keep getting sued, son.

suicide_circus

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think 5 k would have covered it more than enough.

I think it's in proportion to the depth of starbucks's pockets rather than the upset of the girl.

HBC08

cannotlogin wrote: »

I hate compensation culture and people who are offended at everything but given the limit information I don't have an issue with this, what occurred is offensive and wrong.

Can't help but wonder how Starbucks handled it initially, a genuine apology and a €500 voucher surely would have helped rather than it getting to court. If there was an evidence they did this, then my opinion would be different.

Why would the woman or anybody in future accept an apology or a voucher when they know there are big bucks (intended) to be made?

pgj2015

Mrsmum wrote: »

I think 5 k would have covered it more than enough.

A taxi man got belted over the head with a glass bottle by a customer in an Irish case at the end of last year, the customer then ran away without paying the 170 euro fare. The driver only got awarded 2,000 euro. seems fair.:rolleyes:

My name is URL

Multi-billion dollar tax-dodging company get's a tiny slap on wrist and people are outraged just because there was a racial element to it

This is bottom of the barrel stuff, even for here

Who could honestly give a **** like?

Bobblehats

Hellotonever wrote: »

Just dont draw racist caricatures?

Some people slow to adapt cant seem to understand polite society.

But thats alright. Keep on keeping on. And keep getting sued, son.

Bollox. Maybe I’m just from a different era petal, but you wouldn’t know polite if it smacked you in the face

Necro

Hellotonever wrote: »

Just dont draw racist caricatures?

Some people slow to adapt cant seem to understand polite society.

But thats alright. Keep on keeping on. And keep getting sued, son.

Bobblehats wrote: »

Bollox. Maybe I’m just from a different era petal, but you wouldn’t know polite if it smacked you in the face

Mod:

Quit it the two of you and ignore each other if you can't engage in a civil manner

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Bowie wrote: »

It's not what does or does not constitute racism. The woman took insult and it was deemed she had cause to.
If a fat lad went up and there was a doodle of a fat lad it would be the same thing IMO.

Why is having slanty eyes the same as being overweight. That's quite an insulting comparison. Almond shaped eyes are a perfectly normal and attractive physical feature.

The employee behaved in a way that was ill judged, foolish and thoughtless. The manager recognised this and immediately apologised and offered vouchers. The complainant could have accepted this and requested that the employee be spoken to and advised that their behaviour was inappropriate and offensive.

If the Manager had defended the employee I could understand it ending up in court. But as that didn't happen a court case and thousands of euro in compensation seems OTT.

SineadSpears

suicide_circus wrote: »

I think it's in proportion to the depth of starbucks's pockets rather than the upset of the girl.

Possibly, but it set's the tone for folk later on looking for 12k+ whenever they feel offended

Birneybau

gmisk wrote: »

Tbh I am intrigued to see what was drawn on the cup.
It seems like a huge amount of money

They should sell it off and one of the weirdos here could put it on their 'anti-PC' shrine.

SineadSpears

pgj2015 wrote: »

A taxi man got belted over the head with a glass bottle by a customer in an Irish case at the end of last year, the customer then ran away without paying the 170 euro fare. The driver only got awarded 2,000 euro. seems fair.:rolleyes:

I made that exact point earlier

pgj2015

was the employee fired as a result of the incident?

Dravokivich

Bobblehats wrote: »

Oh eggshells. Do we have to tailor specifics? Change our ways for these lot?

An article I read earlier on this, was the picture was drawn becuase they didn't really seem to bothered with putting the name on. The customer expected it to be difficult for them, so was going to help. Only to find they've been characatured and stereotyped as a result.

blackbox

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No doubt its a racist & insulting thing to do & I agree that the business should be fined but giving 12k to the victim is nuts.

1200 would have been much more appropriate.

.

fantaiscool

I agree with it. Racial attacks should be met with harsh penalties.

Bobblehats

Dravokivich wrote: »

An article I read earlier on this, was the picture was drawn becuase they didn't really seem to bothered with putting the name on. The customer expected it to be difficult for them, so was going to help. Only to find they've been characatured and stereotyped as a result.

Stereotyped how. If I though the happy face on my deliveries was a depiction of me I’d be flattered

Have we seen this apparent.. caricature? Did it have goofy teeth, or anything like that?

Markcheese

blackbox wrote: »

1200 would have been much more appropriate.

.

Yeah , I think judges seem to have a skewed view of the value of money , that's apart from fairness of penalising starbucks as opposed to the staff member .. although 12000 is buttons to Starbucks while it would a fortune to the near minimum wage coffee server ...

Sleeper12

blackbox wrote:

1200 would have been much more appropriate.

I agree.
In an ideal world the victim would have gotten 1200 & Starbucks would be been fined 12k. 12k for the victim is shocking. If she was beaten up in a racist attack she wouldn't have gotten as much.

Overheal

Markcheese wrote: »

Yeah , I think judges seem to have a skewed view of the value of money , that's apart from fairness of penalising starbucks as opposed to the staff member .. although 12000 is buttons to Starbucks while it would a fortune to the near minimum wage coffee server ...

Starbucks can make that much money every minute, and more. And the barista reportedly still was retained and retrained. So it seems like nobody is worse for wear as a result of the settlement and the amount.

Akesh

Overheal wrote: »

Starbucks can make that much money every minute, and more. And the barista reportedly still was retained and retrained. So it seems like nobody is worse for wear as a result of the settlement and the amount.

That's not how it works. Starbucks have insurance. The insurance company will pay the majority/all of the costs and the consumer is worse off thanks to compensation culture.

lawred2

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No doubt its a racist & insulting thing to do & I agree that the business should be fined but giving 12k to the victim is nuts.

Why? Who else do you think should receive it?

Gaoth Laidir

suicide_circus wrote: »

I think it's in proportion to the depth of starbucks's pockets rather than the upset of the girl.

HBC08 wrote: »

Why would the woman or anybody in future accept an apology or a voucher when they know there are big bucks (intended) to be made?

My name is URL wrote: »

Multi-billion dollar tax-dodging company get's a tiny slap on wrist and people are outraged just because there was a racial element to it

These are the types of posts that sum up the compo-culture attitude this country is laced with. The size of the corporation should not come into the amount awarded, whether it's a sole-trading corner coffee shop or a multi-billion dollar giant.

People are all too quick to choose to be offended if they think there's money to be made. Not saying that was the case in this event but she was offered a sincere apology by the manager and offered vouchers, but she refused. Why, we'll never know for sure, but imo she or the boyfriend saw the €€€ and said let's try to latte this for as much as we can get.

East Asian people have slanty eyes. Africans have big lips. Irish have pinky skin, freckles, red hair. These are harmless sterotypes. It's not like they're being beaten to death with a club.

lawred2

Jaysus

Quantum Erasure

Sleeper12 wrote: »

No doubt its a racist & insulting thing to do & I agree that the business should be fined but giving 12k to the victim is nuts.

Did we get a picture of the offending cup? If it was just a smiley face with lines for eyes, i don't really see how its 'racist', as such. Altough everything is racist these days

osarusan

In 2021, just how thick does somebody need to be to not see the potential problems with such a drawing?

Quantum Erasure

lawred2 wrote: »

Why? Who else do you think should receive it?

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Bobblehats

Bobblehats wrote: »

Yea what happened there did she forget it?

From the article online at Independant.ie

He stated: “Instead of her name, a physical descriptor was used, in this case her eyes. This was not a drawing of the complainant, but a sketch of one part of her and one clearly associated with race.”

Ms Baneham stated that Ms Foley, while making her order, began to spell out her name and was interrupted by the employee, who improvised a physical representation of Ms Foley who did not ask for this.

Mr Baneham found that the employee did not intend to harass Ms Foley but it is clear that the drawing “had a degrading and humiliating effect” on Ms Foley.

Interrupting her, then drawing her instead, was rude. I can see why the woman was offended. I think its a good ruling, all things considered. It shouldn't have happened.

lawred2

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

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lawred2

[Deleted User] wrote: »

From the article online at Independant.ie

He stated: “Instead of her name, a physical descriptor was used, in this case her eyes. This was not a drawing of the complainant, but a sketch of one part of her and one clearly associated with race.”

Ms Baneham stated that Ms Foley, while making her order, began to spell out her name and was interrupted by the employee, who improvised a physical representation of Ms Foley who did not ask for this.

Mr Baneham found that the employee did not intend to harass Ms Foley but it is clear that the drawing “had a degrading and humiliating effect” on Ms Foley.

Interrupting her, then drawing her instead, was rude. I can see why the woman was offended. I think its a good ruling, all things considered. It shouldn't have happened.

Nah it's grand. At least she wasn't beat with a club.