Starbucks ordered to pay customer €12,000 because of drawing on cup

Hellotonever

Look boys, all im saying is if some english lad draws the 'subhuman irish' caricature on me starbucks cup i would instantly slam his head on the counter. See what she did was right, she spoke out.

But not all of us are snowflakes. The barista is lucky she decided to piss off a soft person that day.

lucernarian

Stark wrote: »

That was very bizarre.

Like imagine a gay person walked in and an employee wrote "Queer" on their cup. "Oh I heard you guys had re-appropriated the term".

Thing is, it's not easy to draw the word queer. I'd like to know what the drawing was on the cup tbh.

Quantum Erasure

Hellotonever wrote: »

Look boys, all im saying is if some english lad draws the 'subhuman irish' caricature on me starbucks cup i would instantly slam his head on the counter. See what she did was right, she spoke out.

But not all of us are snowflakes. The barista is lucky she decided to piss off a soft person that day.

I'd be more impressed if they did that than annoyed, tbh...

"Ireland has no issues with race, people see race everywhere nowadays".

An issue to do with race goes before the courts, the defendant doesn't even attempt to refute what happened, leading to a ruling in the plaintiff's favour...

"PFFFFFFFFFT WTF!!!!! COUNTRY IS GONE!!!!! WOKESNOWFLAKELEFTIES!!!!!!!"

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

"Ireland has no issues with race, people see race everywhere nowadays".

An issue to do with race goes before the courts, the defendant doesn't even attempt to refute what happened, leading to a ruling in the plaintiff's favour...

"PFFFFFFFFFT WTF!!!!! COUNTRY IS GONE!!!!! WOKESNOWFLAKELEFTIES!!!!!!!"

To be fair, the person racially abused was Irish, by a foreigner...

I can see how she was offended. And these things happen occasionally, working in hotels and bars for a few years as a young fella and saw staff occasionally do stupid things dealing with the public.

If it happened to me I would have had a word with the supervisor or the manager. I would never think of dragging min wage staff to court or that it would end up in such a payday!

OMM 0000

I don't get how this is racist.

I live in Japan and Asians literally have slanty eyes.

I can understand how the drawing might be a bit annoying for her, but I don't understand how it is racist.

As an example, I've probably received Starbucks coffees here where they drew a smiley face with big eyes (to suggest the coffee is for the white guy), but I don't get how that's racist either. If anything it's kind of amusing.

I feel the meaning of racism has changed to include things like "a little bit annoying".

OMM 0000

Stark wrote: »

Like imagine a gay person walked in and an employee wrote "Queer" on their cup. "Oh I heard you guys had re-appropriated the term".

That's not a good comparison. A drawing of an Asian is not the same as calling a gay a "queer".

Perhaps a better comparison would be if they drew a rainbow flag on a gay customer's cup. Is that bigotry? I don't think so. You could argue it's annoying or stupid, but I think we need to stop lumping anything uncomfortable into the bigotry category.

ILoveYourVibes

Should be a million.

Why should I care what a billion dollar company has to pay?

What is the OP expecting from me? Sympathy for the poor racist? For the poor little rich company for whom 12k is a sneeze?

Sorry.

They should be punished more.

I feel nothing but coldness toward them.

Was I supposed to feel sorry for them? Weird.

OscarMIlde

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

I'm going to go to Starbucks first chance I get and give them the name Tadhgh to write. If they spell it incorrectly I'm going to choose to be offended at their ignorance of Irish names and see what I van get out of them. It has to be worth five grand at least, wha?

I have a three letter Irish name, which I spell out, and they still get it wrong. They'll never master Tadhgh.

ILoveYourVibes

OscarMIlde wrote: »

I have a three letter Irish name, which I spell out, and they still get it wrong. They'll never master Tadhgh.

Dicks. :mad:

nullzero

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Should be a million.

Why should I care what a billion dollar company has to pay?

What is the OP expecting from me? Sympathy for the poor racist? For the poor little rich company for whom 12k is a sneeze?

Sorry.

They should be punished more.

I feel nothing but coldness toward them.

Was I supposed to feel sorry for them? Weird.

Such a nuanced response.

noodler

It's really not clear how our awards are calculated.

walshb

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Should be a million.

Why should I care what a billion dollar company has to pay?

What is the OP expecting from me? Sympathy for the poor racist? For the poor little rich company for whom 12k is a sneeze?

Sorry.

They should be punished more.

I feel nothing but coldness toward them.

Was I supposed to feel sorry for them? Weird.

So you think one moment in time of silliness and childishness, and immaturity which is what reads to me should see a whole global company have its name down as being involved and complicit in racism?

This was a ridiculous overreaction that was pursued out of making a quick buck. Nothing more.

agoodpunt

I know lots of taximen whom brought many a thai girl + a sibling or 2 back to ireland because they are generally more attractive than our natives so I have been told
I suspect this is home grown compo culture google surname lol
Compo culture is not free

Annasopra

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

And an apology and gesture would have sufficed, which is exactly what was offered, but she refused. You really think 12K is a reasonable outcome? This will set the scene for many more such claims, clogging up the courts from putting away some actual criminals.

Its not a court though.

Ash.J.Williams

agoodpunt wrote: »

I know lots of taximen whom brought many a thai girl + a sibling or 2 back to ireland because they are generally more attractive than our natives so I have been told
I suspect this is home grown compo culture google surname lol
Compo culture is not free

wha?

Ash.J.Williams

OMM 0000 wrote: »

That's not a good comparison. A drawing of an Asian is not the same as calling a gay a "queer".

Perhaps a better comparison would be if they drew a rainbow flag on a gay customer's cup. Is that bigotry? I don't think so. You could argue it's annoying or stupid, but I think we need to stop lumping anything uncomfortable into the bigotry category.

no, it would be the same as drawing a stereotype "jewish nose" on a cup which would also result in a payout

Stark

OMM 0000 wrote: »

That's not a good comparison. A drawing of an Asian is not the same as calling a gay a "queer".

It's exactly the comparison Starbucks used in their defence (ironically digging themselves a deeper hole rather than exonerating themselves).

OMM 0000

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

no, it would be the same as drawing a stereotype "jewish nose" on a cup which would also result in a payout

Not a good comparison either, as in Asia they use slanty eyes when drawing themselves. Most Starbucks drinks I get will have a drawing of a face with slanty eyes on it.

I asked my friends and wife about it here (all Japanese), and none of them thought it was racism. They do think it is stupid though.

I don't think Jewish people draw themselves with a big nose.

Again, I'm not saying it's without offence, I just think we should stop lumping everything into the racism basket.

pgj2015

it would be like a Swedish woman drawing a person with black hair for an Italian customer in a Swedish starbucks.

Ash.J.Williams

pgj2015 wrote: »

it would be like a Swedish woman drawing a person with black hair for an Italian customer in a Swedish starbucks.

No it isn’t

pgj2015

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

No it isn’t

it is. why is slanty eyes an insult?

agoodpunt

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

No it isn’t

It is when you have irish compo culture
Am sure her family in thailand are on the backs laughing at stupid farangs

ohnonotgmail

pgj2015 wrote: »

it is. why is slanty eyes an insult?

Is that a genuine question? you really don't know the history behind it?

lawred2

pgj2015 wrote: »

it is. why is slanty eyes an insult?

ah here

ohnonotgmail

agoodpunt wrote: »

I know lots of taximen whom brought many a thai girl + a sibling or 2 back to ireland because they are generally more attractive than our natives so I have been told
I suspect this is home grown compo culture google surname lol
Compo culture is not free

their surname is Foley. what exactly should we be looking for when we google that surname?

Its a disgrace Joe, foreigners coming over here racially abusing us Irish.

conorhal

Stark wrote: »

That was very bizarre.

Like imagine a gay person walked in and an employee wrote "Queer" on their cup. "Oh I heard you guys had re-appropriated the term".

Nonsense.

In the context of what happened, your example would be more akin to a barista drawing a rainbow on someones cup.

Context matters, and in the context of what happened you have to ask the question, 'was offence or distress intended'?
IMO, no it was not. There seems to have certiantly been a determined effort to take offence however.


Personally I loathe those whole cutsey 'para-social' attempts by corporate entities to present the appearence of a 'personal relationship with the customer' that scrawling smiley faces and such on your frickin' takeaway coffee constitutes.

It's abnoxiously American and very fake.

ohnonotgmail

conorhal wrote: »

Nonsense.

In the context of what happened, your example would be more akin to a barista drawing a rainbow on someones cup.

Context matters, and in the context of what happened you have to ask the question, 'was offence or distress intended'?
IMO, no it was not. There seems to have certiantly been a determined effort to take offence however.


Personally I loathe those whole cutsey 'para-social' attempts by corporate entities to present the appearence of a 'personal relationship with the customer' that scrawling smiley faces and such on your frickin' takeaway coffee constitutes.

It's abnoxiously American and very fake.

you are really bad at analogies. it is nothing like that at all.

conorhal

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are really bad at analogies. it is nothing like that at all.

Well that makes two of us then and a lot of self righteous huffing over a storm in a coffee cup.
It was a barista consciously drawing attention to a characteristic of a customer in a rather odd way in which no offence was intended.
IMO the manager acted appropriately and that should have been the end of it.

fantaiscool

conorhal wrote: »

Well that makes two of us then and a lot of self righteous huffing over a storm in a coffee cup.
It was a barista consciously drawing attention to a characteristic of a customer in a rather odd way in which no offence was intended.
IMO the manager acted appropriately and that should have been the end of it.

Thankfully the courts didn't see it this way and acted in a manner that has made an example out of the situation.

conorhal

fantaiscool wrote: »

Thankfully the courts didn't see it this way and acted in a manner that has made an example out of the situation.

The law is an ass.

Gaoth Laidir

fantaiscool wrote: »

Thankfully the courts didn't see it this way and acted in a manner that has made an example out of the situation.

conorhal wrote: »

The law is an ass.

For the umpteenth time, this was not in the courts.

pgj2015

if the plaintiff thought it was done as an insult then she was right to bring the matter further but from the sounds of it, she didnt, so she should have just let it go.

OMM 0000

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I don't get how this is racist.

I live in Japan and Asians literally have slanty eyes.

I can understand how the drawing might be a bit annoying for her, but I don't understand how it is racist.

As an example, I've probably received Starbucks coffees here where they drew a smiley face with big eyes (to suggest the coffee is for the white guy), but I don't get how that's racist either. If anything it's kind of amusing.

I feel the meaning of racism has changed to include things like "a little bit annoying".

Ditto. In China, they won't be able to write my name, so usually they write 'foreigner' on the cup in Chinese characters.

And since Asia is the epicenter for all things "cute", I could easily see them drawing a stick insect to represent me. (Being tall/Thin). The anime aspect is strong throughout Asia, and most Asians are themselves represented by other Asians as having slanted/small eyes.

As for all Asians having slanted eyes, not so much. Round eyes are very common in China and Korea... added to the massive cosmetic surgery industry which will alter them. Admittedly, from my experiences, slanted eyes tends to be far more common in Thailand than other countries. Although, they're not really slanted, it's just the case of the eyes being covered more. My ex was so cute when she smiled or laughed because her eyes would close every time.

In any case, I don't really see the racism here either. It's not like the cup was being shown to all the other customers, with everyone laughing over the image. It was a single drawing shown to the customer.. of a physical feature she probably had.

Yup. I'd consider this to be compo culture.. Something that definitely wouldn't be considered offensive in her own culture, but seeks to make it offensive in ours.

Bobblehats

Deleted User wrote: »

As for all Asians having slanted eyes, not so much. Round eyes are very common in China and Korea... added to the massive cosmetic surgery industry which will alter them. Admittedly, from my experiences, slanted eyes tends to be far more common in Thailand than other countries. Although, they're not really slanted, it's just the case of the eyes being covered more. My ex was so cute when she smiled or laughed because her eyes would close every time.

Yeh that's the Siam crowd a lot of Chinese have large, rounded eyes moreso than most my missus is classic oriental albeit naga she asks why you like my chinky eyes! I tell her that's why; honey then it gets awkward hah. But usually resolved

walshb

Spring is Here wrote: »

12k isn't really a lot of money so it's not unreasonable that she get's that payout. Nonetheless, I'm not bothered by name calling or similar discrimination as I have healthy self esteem so I'd happily be discriminated against every day if it meant I could get 12k a pop.

It’s a whole lot of money for a whole lot of nothing. That is the point..

Reading the details here, this, for me was nothing more than a cash-grab..

And they got away with it..

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

I don’t class this as a normal BS compo claim. What that employee did was racist and this sends a message. And it’s not a small, struggling business. This is a slap on the wrist for Starbucks but probably just enough of an amount for them to take notice.

The ‘writing on cups’ thing in Starbucks is open to abuse by arsehole employees. I’ve seen other examples of them writing “funny” things on cups that are actually just mean.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

.anon. wrote: »

Sounds like the employee might have been very, very innocent and genuinely didn't understand how offensive it was.

Starbucks' defence was bizarre, to say the least:

"A legal representatives for the Starbucks outlet put it to Ms Foley that an American band called 'Slants' had sought to re-appropriate the depiction of eyes in the same way that 'queer' had been re-appropriated by the LGBT community."

Anyone who is old enough to hold employment should know better. I mean, I learned and understood as a young child why the old version of the “Eeny meeny miney mo” rhyme was not okay. There’s no excuse.

blanch152

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

It just gets better and better. Now Starbucks was ordered to pay a customer of Thai origin €12,000 because they drew "slanty eyes" on her cup instead of writing her name. She was offended.

Ok, they should have written her name but really? €12,000 for that? More compo culture Ireland at play.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0119/1190689-starbucks-ordered-to-pay-compensation/

I wouldn't class this one as compensation culture.

Compensation awards should have two effects. The main one is to compensate the person for the real injury incurred and a secondary one to ensure that there isn't a recurrence of this type of incident.

In this case, while the main injury caused was minor, it was also clear that Starbucks staff had little or no training on these kinds of issues, and an award that would result in demonstrable change was required. This was achieved as by the time the award was publicised, which is usually a few months after the decision, Starbucks had already retrained the employees at that store, and presumably all their other Irish stores as well.

Compensation culture mainly occurs when the main reason for compensation is unjustifiably exaggerated.

golondrinas1

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

their surname is Foley. what exactly should we be looking for when we google that surname?

Cups with slanty eyes. They are worth good money to certain ethics or is that racist.?

Gaoth Laidir

blanch152 wrote: »

I wouldn't class this one as compensation culture.

Compensation awards should have two effects. The main one is to compensate the person for the real injury incurred and a secondary one to ensure that there isn't a recurrence of this type of incident.

In this case, while the main injury caused was minor, it was also clear that Starbucks staff had little or no training on these kinds of issues, and an award that would result in demonstrable change was required. This was achieved as by the time the award was publicised, which is usually a few months after the decision, Starbucks had already retrained the employees at that store, and presumably all their other Irish stores as well.

Compensation culture mainly occurs when the main reason for compensation is unjustifiably exaggerated.

Such as in this case. If you want to fine the business then fine [/pun], but the "injury" caused (boo hoo) did not warrant her being paid 12K. She admitted herself that she didn't want to take if further but the boyfriend and his grandmother saw the € signs and said, no, you can cash in on this.

Read the transcript.

0ph0rce0

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

I'd love to see the actual drawing, I bet you the picture looked something like an emoji smiley face.




Big racist emoji bastards

Just read the report there.

I see it states

"The complainant was asked why the image was offensive given that it is drawn like an emoji"

I knew it was gonna be that. I bet she gets emojis through messages everyday from family and friends and I bet she doesn't go looking for 12 grand off them every time she gets one.


****in chancer.


"The boyfriend denied making this statement. He said that he had not said anything offensive but accepted that he may have referred to the employee’s skin colour in saying how the drawing had impacted on the complainant"

Will the employee get 12K for being called a black **** ???

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I don’t class this as a normal BS compo claim. What that employee did was racist and this sends a message. And it’s not a small, struggling business.

How was it racist though? The was no offense intended by the employee. No hatred. No superiority. No nasty following comments or jokes. No language associated with the image to insult the person. Ignorant, sure. But racist? The bar for racism is really being lowered to cover just about anything.

Ash.J.Williams

pgj2015 wrote: »

it is. why is slanty eyes an insult?

Do you ever leave the village?

blanch152

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Such as in this case. If you want to fine the business then fine [/pun], but the "injury" caused (boo hoo) did not warrant her being paid 12K. She admitted herself that she didn't want to take if further but the boyfriend and his grandmother saw the € signs and said, no, you can cash in on this.

Read the transcript.

You can't fine the company, there is no provision in Irish law to do so (correct me if I am wrong).

The only remedy open to the law is an equality case such as this, hence the need for the demonstration effect.

1874

blanch152 wrote: »

I wouldn't class this one as compensation culture.

Compensation awards should have two effects. The main one is to compensate the person for the real injury incurred and a secondary one to ensure that there isn't a recurrence of this type of incident.

In this case, while the main injury caused was minor, it was also clear that Starbucks staff had little or no training on these kinds of issues, and an award that would result in demonstrable change was required. This was achieved as by the time the award was publicised, which is usually a few months after the decision, Starbucks had already retrained the employees at that store, and presumably all their other Irish stores as well.

Compensation culture mainly occurs when the main reason for compensation is unjustifiably exaggerated.

Compensation culture mainly occurs when the main reason for compensation is unjustifiably exaggerated.

Im astounded that you say all that and still your last paragraph is the above, how was that whole situation not exaggerated? im with the poster who said I hope she dumps the chap and makes off with her 12k, because it seems like the boyfriend pressed this, it seems like she went along with it and even he had his granny in on the act, that is just strange, and what age is she, her Dad weighing in too.
How that WRC report read made it sound like they made a bigger deal of an unintended offence from someone not clued in that its not ok to make personal references, but in no way does it look like it was intentional blatant racism, if anything Inthink mixed race is more common in Brazil. Starbucks policy of writing names is thick imo, in this instance they apologised and offered 500? of vouchers, they had training in place by the the hearing date. Can you see it if Starbucks had fired the employee, theyd be up in the WRC for the original complaint, and then back to the WRC for the sacking. This whole thing is about the boyfriend virue signalling a perceived slight against his girlfriend and denying the opportunity of a reasonable apology.
Looks like the apple didnt fall far from the tree and why was the accusation of his alleged racism just dismissed. Starbucks shouldnt have made reference to the word slanty in their defence, should have just called it what it was, a genuine stupid mistake, sounds like they were clutching at straws to defend themselves and the WRC are virtue signalling they wont do anyone wrong in a claim of racism no matter how tenuous.
Based on the alleged racist insult, its appears the Barista is not white, can you imagine if they were,or a bloke?!

Starbucks should end that name writing nonsense, might go in there and say my name is bastard though, then sue them for offending me, ching ching (thats an old fashioned cash machine sound).

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Deleted User wrote: »

How was it racist though? The was no offense intended by the employee. No hatred. No superiority. No nasty following comments or jokes. No language associated with the image to insult the person. Ignorant, sure. But racist? The bar for racism is really being lowered to cover just about anything.

Yes, I’m pretty sure many people say racist things and don’t mean anything by it. Unfortunately, that’s not how it works. The person on the receiving end took it as racist. And can you tell her she was wrong? The whole thing of casual racism is that it usually isn’t said with invective. It’s thoughtless. And it’s actually something that requires more vigilance around it than overt, threatening racism. “I wasn’t thinking” just isn’t good enough, I’m afraid. Sure, we could all use that excuse to execrete shite from our mouths. And actually, it was a level above throwaway.

AND I’m not sure how you can speak with such surety of the employee’s motivation. Unless you are the employee, you don’t know what the thought process was.

Gaoth Laidir

The good thing is that their request for anonymity was refused so their names are out in the public. Only thing is that so are the Starbuck workers'.

It's like that other one who spilt coffee on herself when holding the cup between her legs in the driving seat at a McDonald's drive through in Clondalkin. She got 30K out of if cos she said the lid wasn't on properly. Absolutely ridiculous.