Oh Dear , Is Charles a naughty boy ??

Slattsy

Coneygree wrote: »

I've heard whispers about that Irish handicapper that was stopped in Cheltenham but I could never find too much proof to back it up. Would have been pounded into lots of accas with other favourites though so it might be fresh from the same cloth of the "Ruby hopped off Annie Power".

I'm sorry what's this now?

The Mig

Leave at Dawn in Mall Dini's Pertemps

IAMAMORON

Pogue eile wrote: »

Link is not working for me, but come on all three are shall we say 'of interest' when it comes to questionable running of their horses and betting paterns.

Hogan's I have noticed a lot of them are shortened considerably over night or early in the morning only to dirft right back out before the off and always finish nowhere near the front.

I mean what I said.

I find it uncomfortable that only these small yards are getting caught out and then been pulled to all and sundry as evidence that the HRI are doing their job.

Don't make me laugh. The HRI are a gang of fat cats - John Delaney stuff. They are not going to piss in their own soup - that is the problem.

The way I see it there is not enough transparency throughout racing. How come punters are not being made aware of what stables are being tested? How come testing results are not being made public as and when they happen?

It is all well and good having a few bad guy nobodies getting carted out and labelled as cheats, but everyone knows it is tip of the iceberg stuff. I tell you one thing, nothing will be done about it until the HRI gets a shake up - bring it on.

Slattsy

People are saying he was stopped?

Coneygree

Slattsy wrote: »

People are saying he was stopped?

That's supposedly who Walsh was alluding to in the article.

The Mig

Slattsy wrote: »

People are saying he was stopped?

According to the rumour mill, yes!

IAMAMORON

Yeah because pulling an 11/2 shot in a big handicap at Cheltenham is really what is going down?

Phucking garbage for starters.

That is not where the corruption is. Albeit it sits nicely with dragging Charles Byrnes through the mud. Bullshight of the highest order.

Owners and trainers don't be in the game to send one to a championship meeting to pull a stroke .... at 2/11 on? ..... lololololololol , tell me another. Phuck sake there are another 23 horsies in the race to beat for starters?

Rubbish bullshight and the journalist who wrote it needs to remove his head from whatever arse it is sitting in.

Coneygree

Tbh David Walsh has no credibility any more. He was great in piling the pressure on Lance Armstrong but he'd the exact same opportunity to do the same with Wiggins, Froome and Sky and said everything was above board when it so clearly wasn't, which was later proven by their top two cyclists being involved in scandals.

Saying that, is it possible Charlie and Geraghty pulled a fast on Leaving At Dawn? Absolutely. I don't and have never bought this craic that "oh they'd never do it at Cheltenham, they'd only do it in somewhere like Ballinrobe".

IAMAMORON

Coneygree wrote: »

Saying that, is it possible Charlie and Geraghty pulled a fast on Leaving At Dawn? Absolutely. I don't and have never bought this craic that "oh they'd never do it at Cheltenham, they'd only do it in somewhere like Ballinrobe".

They can pull strokes anywhere they like.

The only smidgeon I could give the story is that the markets at Cheltenham are massive and as such there is scope to lay more money without things being scrutinised.

Geraghty wouldn't need to know either, all you do is run the horse for 3 miles at full pelt that morning, job done.

It is a rumour and papers never ever refused ink.

Slattsy

Sounds like nonsense. Googled his form there, he never raced again! That story belongs in the conspiracy theory bin.

Coneygree

IAMAMORON wrote: »

They can pull strokes anywhere they like.

The only smidgeon I could give the story is that the markets at Cheltenham are massive and as such there is scope to lay more money without things being scrutinised.

Geraghty wouldn't need to know either, all you do is run the horse for 3 miles at full pelt that morning, job done.

It is a rumour and papers never ever refused ink.

The only stink I could find about the markets was that it was backed in steadily all day but drifted late on.

I genuinely can't remember the race. Same day as Vautour and Thistlecrack so hard to remember much else. Is there a replay of the race anywhere?

The Mig

Jockey Club website. Did look a bit iffy but the fact he hasn’t ran since makes me think something went wrong with horse in the race

Kauto

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Yeah because pulling an 11/2 shot in a big handicap at Cheltenham is really what is going down?

Phucking garbage for starters.

That is not where the corruption is. Albeit it sits nicely with dragging Charles Byrnes through the mud. Bullshight of the highest order.

Owners and trainers don't be in the game to send one to a championship meeting to pull a stroke .... at 2/11 on? ..... lololololololol , tell me another. Phuck sake there are another 23 horsies in the race to beat for starters?

Rubbish bullshight and the journalist who wrote it needs to remove his head from whatever arse it is sitting in.

Will you stop shouting absolute rubbish! Its well known by anyone in the game that the green and gold cleaned up the day Istabtaq was pulled up after a few hurdles. The horse was lame in the parade ring beforehand.
As for galloping a horse 3 miles in the morning!! Do me a favour. Far easier ways to stop one than that. Look at Mark Walsh in a lot of races. A genius at getting them to take an extra stride into a fence and check momentum. They are at it everyday of the week. You hardly think Saint JP and these lads are in it to lose money?

Andalucia

The Tetrarch wrote: »

The Chief Executive of HRI has been in the job since 2001.
The Chief Executive of IHRB* has been in the job since 2001.
*previously the Turf Club

They are both accountants.
As an ex Chartered Accountant I probably should say accountants are great (they are ).
I think both these were working in those organisations (or other racing organisations) as accountants and just moved across into the positions.
They were not hired as chief executives. They were hired as accountants.

These lads are well past their shelf life, how kavanagh got the 3rd term was a farce.

NaiveMelodies

The Mig wrote: »

Jockey Club website. Did look a bit iffy but the fact he hasn’t ran since makes me think something went wrong with horse in the race

Too much sedative, horse is still asleep as far as I know.

IAMAMORON

Kauto wrote: »

Will you stop shouting absolute rubbish! Its well known by anyone in the game that the green and gold cleaned up the day Istabtaq was pulled up after a few hurdles. The horse was lame in the parade ring beforehand.
As for galloping a horse 3 miles in the morning!! Do me a favour. Far easier ways to stop one than that. Look at Mark Walsh in a lot of races. A genius at getting them to take an extra stride into a fence and check momentum. They are at it everyday of the week. You hardly think Saint JP and these lads are in it to lose money?

For starters we are both speculating on something that probably never even happened.... So best to leave it there, I prefer having barneys over things that actually exist.

My main point is that there are ways outside of doping horses, or including the jockey on a fix. That being, not having the horse fully fit going into a race.

I don't think JP needs to get involved in any of that to make his few quid either. He makes money when he is asleep at night. Why would he bother involving himself in pulling horses? He has the some of the best NH runners on the planet, he can make plenty of tricks on triers alone... if he was arsed.

I don't believe for a second he is pouring millions into the game every year for the sake of scamming the game. At some point you have to check what you are saying.

Pogue eile

Coneygree wrote: »

I've heard whispers about that Irish handicapper that was stopped in Cheltenham but I could never find too much proof to back it up. Would have been pounded into lots of accas with other favourites though so it might be fresh from the same cloth of the "Ruby hopped off Annie Power".

The Mig wrote: »

Leave at Dawn in Mall Dini's Pertemps

The horse lost a shoe (genuinely in this case) and cut into his leg so badly that he was ultimately retired without ever racing again. A good friend of mine was in the unsaddeling area when Geraghty brought him back and said that it was a horrific sight and She has no idea how the horse finished the race.

Does anyone really believe that if JP, Byrnes and Geraghty wanted to pull a stroke like that, that it would somehow become common knowledge?

Walsh looses all credibility with that kind of school yard sh*te and as much as it pains mountai it makes him look like a fool.

Kauto

IAMAMORON wrote: »

For starters we are both speculating on something that probably never even happened.... So best to leave it there, I prefer having barneys over things that actually exist.

My main point is that there are ways outside of doping horses, or including the jockey on a fix. That being, not having the horse fully fit going into a race.

I don't think JP needs to get involved in any of that to make his few quid either. He makes money when he is asleep at night. Why would he bother involving himself in pulling horses? He has the some of the best NH runners on the planet, he can make plenty of tricks on triers alone... if he was arsed.

I don't believe for a second he is pouring millions into the game every year for the sake of scamming the game. At some point you have to check what you are saying.

For the biggest owner in the game he has a stable of absolute ****e!! There is a reason he only has a handful of horses with Mullins!!! Willie won't play the game. There really is no point engaging with you any further as its clear you don't know what goes on. The best of luck and happy punting!!

Pogue eile

Kauto wrote: »

For the biggest owner in the game he has a stable of absolute ****e!! There is a reason he only has a handful of horses with Mullins!!! Willie won't play the game. There really is no point engaging with you any further as its clear you don't know what goes on. The best of luck and happy punting!!

We have a new contender for post of the year :D:D

Seven winners at last years festival and he has a 'stable of ****e' ......brilliant, is that you David Walsh???

I used to think you just had a clever username, I didnt realise you were actually the horse!

IAMAMORON

Kauto wrote: »

There is a reason he only has a handful of horses with Mullins!!! Willie won't play the game.

What is the reason and what game will Willie not play?

The Mig

Pogue eile wrote: »

The horse lost a shoe (genuinely in this case) and cut into his leg so badly that he was ultimately retired without ever racing again. A good friend of mine was in the unsaddeling area when Geraghty brought him back and said that it was a horrific sight and She has no idea how the horse finished the race.

Does anyone really believe that if JP, Byrnes and Geraghty wanted to pull a stroke like that, that it would somehow become common knowledge?

Walsh looses all credibility with that kind of school yard sh*te and as much as it pains mountai it makes him look like a fool.

Don’t shoot the messenger Pogue. Only passing on the rumour

Kauto

IAMAMORON wrote: »

What is the reason and what game will Willie not play?

The 'not today' game. There is only one boss in that stable and owners do what their told or they sod off like jered O'Sullivan etc.

Pogue eile

The Mig wrote: »

Don’t shoot the messenger Pogue. Only passing on the rumour

Sorry mig, didnt mean it to come acrosss like that at all, merely quoted you as it was the first post to mention Leave at Dawn.

Pogue eile

Kauto wrote: »

The 'not today' game. There is only one boss in that stable and owners do what their told or they sod off like jered O'Sullivan etc.

Were they saving him for a bigger day than Cheltenham :D cos I know JP hates having festival winners!!

Kauto

Pogue eile wrote: »

We have a new contender for post of the year :D:D

Seven winners at last years festival and he has a 'stable of ****e' ......brilliant, is that you David Walsh???

I used to think you just had a clever username, I didnt realise you were actually the horse!

JP has the guts of 250+ horses in training. For the number of horses he has and the money he spends he has pure muck.
A couple of champion hurdle horses and the rest are handicappers.
Breeders hate to see the ****er buying their stock.
By the way I love the game. I breed, race the odd one and love the skullduggery myself at times!

Pogue eile

Kauto wrote: »

JP has the guts of 250+ horses in training. For the number of horses he has and the money he spends he has pure muck.
A couple of champion hurdle horses and the rest are handicappers.
Breeders hate to see the ****er buying their stock.
By the way I love the game. I breed, race the odd one and love the skullduggery myself at times!

Well I for one don't care what the rest of the lads say, I think you are a hoot :D

abarkie

Pogue eile wrote: »

Were they saving him for a bigger day than Cheltenham :D cos I know JP hates having festival winners!!

Other festivals are available

Punchestown, Killarney, Galway?

IAMAMORON

Kauto wrote: »

The 'not today' game. There is only one boss in that stable and owners do what their told or they sod off like jered O'Sullivan etc.

I don't think there is trainer around not playing that game.

Do you think with Gigginstown not buying anymore that more owners are getting a chance to buy a good one?

Pogue eile

abarkie wrote: »

Other festivals are available

Punchestown, Killarney, Galway?

He is inferring that a horse would be pulled at Cheltenham for 'another day' , yes there are other festivals but you dont send a horse to Cheltenham to protect or manipulate its mark, the idea is quite frankly ludicrous. And you certainly dont amass 61 Cheltenham festival winners doing it.

Kauto

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I don't think there is trainer around not playing that game.

Do you think with Gigginstown not buying anymore that more owners are getting a chance to buy a good one?

Prices haven't dropped since they stopped buying.
You have owners like the morans with Elliott who are paying massive money for yokes.
They will be gelded over the next 5 or 6 years. Even the wealth they have it will hurt!
Look at Wylie with Mullins. Plenty top horses but pulled the plug as losing too much.

Kauto

Pogue eile wrote: »

He is inferring that a horse would be pulled at Cheltenham for 'another day' , yes there are other festivals but you dont send a horse to Cheltenham to protect or manipulate its mark, the idea is quite frankly ludicrous. And you certainly dont amass 61 Cheltenham festival winners doing it.

You certainly do amass 61 winners when you have the volume of runners he has. Probably a poor enough return when you look at it.
Its not ludicrous to say a horse could be pulled at Cheltenham. Perfect time to do it with the volume of the markets.

IAMAMORON

Kauto wrote: »

Prices haven't dropped since they stopped buying.
You have owners like the morans with Elliott who are paying massive money for yokes.
They will be gelded over the next 5 or 6 years. Even the wealth they have it will hurt!
Look at Wylie with Mullins. Plenty top horses but pulled the plug as losing too much.

Thanks for the insight Kauto. I am sure that all of Gordon Elliott's clients and connections are chuffed with your kind opine.

Tell me one thing. How is it that everytime you give your opinion on something that you feel compelled to give a somewhat acute adverse opinion on everything else that potentially contravenes? Quite bluntly also?

You posted earlier that you are both a breeder and an owner with horses in training?

I just struggle to see how someone with such a hostile attitude towards everyone or anything else could possibly sell themselves as a horseman? It really does not make any sense to me... how do you do it?

Kauto

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Thanks for the insight Kauto. I am sure that all of Gordon Elliott's clients and connections are chuffed with your kind opine.

Tell me one thing. How is it that everytime you give your opinion on something that you feel compelled to give a somewhat acute adverse opinion on everything else that potentially contravenes? Quite bluntly also?

You posted earlier that you are both a breeder and an owner with horses in training?

I just struggle to see how someone with such a hostile attitude towards everyone or anything else could possibly sell themselves as a horseman? It really does not make any sense to me... how do you do it?

Tell it like it is! Have always had a few mares. Nothing serious.
You wouldn't believe the skulduggery that goes on at the sales. Those owners that come into the game and spend vast sums generally don't last. Wait and see!!

IAMAMORON

Kauto wrote: »

Tell it like it is! Have always had a few mares. Nothing serious.
You wouldn't believe the skulduggery that goes on at the sales. Those owners that come into the game and spend vast sums generally don't last. Wait and see!!

Where do you send your mares?

Kauto

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Where do you send your mares?

Various places but generally Coolmore NH.

IAMAMORON

Kauto wrote: »

Various places but generally Coolmore NH.

Are you sending many over?

IAMAMORON

They have some interesting newbies, I checked the site there. It will be interesting to see what gets the most winners out of Crystal Ocean, Order of St George or Idaho.

We should be seeing some of Capri's NH types soon enough?

zpehtsfd

Kauto wrote: »

JP has the guts of 250+ horses in training. For the number of horses he has and the money he spends he has pure muck.
A couple of champion hurdle horses and the rest are handicappers.
Breeders hate to see the ****er buying their stock.
By the way I love the game. I breed, race the odd one and love the skullduggery myself at times!

I know one trainer who hates training for him. FB always has a master plan with the horse instead of just running it on its merits.

Even you don't believe that Leave at Dawn rumor. Come on.

IAMAMORON

zpehtsfd wrote: »

I know one trainer who hates training for him. FB always has a master plan with the horse instead of just running it on its merits.

Even you don't believe that Leave at Dawn rumor. Come on.

Are you talking to yourself there?

Kauto

IAMAMORON wrote: »

They have some interesting newbies, I checked the site there. It will be interesting to see what gets the most winners out of Crystal Ocean, Order of St George or Idaho.

We should be seeing some of Capri's NH types soon enough?

Crystal Ocean too expensive for me. Wouldnt be mad on any of those tbh.

Kauto

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Are you sending many over?

No, only have 3 mares this year.

IAMAMORON

Kauto wrote: »

No, only have 3 mares this year.

Who sired them?

Kauto

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Who sired them?

Mares are by Shernazar, Old Vic and Oscar

The Mig

Look who has the fav tomorrow in the 2:50 at Gowran :pac:

JR Harvey

Kauto wrote: »

The 'not today' game. There is only one boss in that stable and owners do what their told or they sod off like jered O'Sullivan etc.

Or Mick O'Leary

hurdles1

Interesting tommorrow in Gowran..

posturingpat

Rough terrain getting well supported for Charles this morning it would appear. Interesting how this goes throughout the day.

posturingpat

posturingpat wrote: »

Rough terrain getting well supported for Charles this morning it would appear. Interesting how this goes throughout the day.

"I don't lay horses...I back horses"

Coneygree

posturingpat wrote: »

Rough terrain getting well supported for Charles this morning it would appear. Interesting how this goes throughout the day.

Doubled with a bumper horse ridden by his young fella in the last.

minibear

posturingpat wrote: »

Rough terrain getting well supported for Charles this morning it would appear. Interesting how this goes throughout the day.

Having a very very rare afternoon to myself today so i had a look last night to see what i might back for today. I did a tiny double on his two runners for today, seriously it's so small it can't even be called after timing if they win. i know nothing about racing but i see C.Byrnes and i see a heist or the beginning of one. Also threw in Call Colman in an equally small treble just for the fun.

I just love racing. Don't bet too often and i never bet big, its just to have the interest in a race. Although i noticed last year as i waited for my daughter to come out of school, i was watching the kids streaming around the side of the school heading for the steps, wondering who was going to get their nose in front at the gate. You have the obvious favourite, the ones who've won before, the ones with the speed, but sometimes you see two little determined legs going for all their worth and you see that surprisingly steely expression in their eyes.. (Note: i've never thought of opening a book with the other parents, i suspect i might be the mammy they kick out of the school messenger group if i tried that) :rolleyes::pac: