Brexit Impact on Northern Ireland

Podge_irl

cgcsb wrote: »

-Keep a devolved assembly in Belfast for the region for at least a decade after, this will keep the mextreme elements out of the Dáil's way while the Dáil makes real decisions.

That is not how devolved govts work. They would obviously need to have representation in the Dáil also.

LuasSimon

What have Armagh or Tyrone in common with Kent or Devon ? Nothing is the short answer where as Armagh and Tyrone are inextricably linked with Louth , Monaghan , Donegal etc

Northern Ireland is the last of the colonies that very very few in England want anymore , it’s part of Ireland , always was and should be returned to its natural United form .

LuasSimon

Podge_irl wrote: »

That is not how devolved govts work. They would obviously need to have representation in the Dáil also.

Let the DUP have their ten TDs in the dail and create a minister for Protestants or whatever you would call it ,
Charlie Flanagan would be a obvious initial chairperson of that committee .

L1011

LuasSimon wrote: »

Let the DUP have their ten TDs in the dail and create a minister for Protestants or whatever you would call it ,
Charlie Flanagan would be a obvious initial chairperson of that committee .

On the basis of their last AE results, they would have 20-25 TDs in a Dáil based on the current constitutional basis; along with 7-8 UUP. This would be out of 64 additional TDs for NI and assuming it wouldn't be as cleanly divided in to 5 seat constituencies that deliver more for smaller parties and less for bigger like the Assembly is.

[Deleted User]

It’s a no from me.

Wilhelm III

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It’s a no from me.

Forget about me, forget about you - forget about all of us for a moment - what about 100 years from now? Do you not think future Ireland will be better as one nation? We are a tiny island, one little landmass - we should not be split in two, it's not natural - we are all the same people.

[Deleted User]

Wilhelm III wrote: »

Forget about me, forget about you - forget about all of us for a moment - what about 100 years from now? Do you not think future Ireland will be better as one nation? We are a tiny island, one little landmass - we should not be split in two, it's not natural - we are all the same people.

It’s grand as it is without that element. If it might be better as a joined up country in a hundred years then they can vote for it then.

Wilhelm III

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

It’s grand as it is without that element.

No it's not, it's f***ing corrupt sh*thole - and we should ALL strive to make it better – for us, and for future generations. THIS is not the country men died for. I dare say 'that element' - might just help us achieve such a nation. EVERYBODY has something to offer - keep an open mind, we are not as different as some think - and are certainly more alike than not.

[Deleted User]

Wilhelm III wrote: »

No it's not, it's f***ing corrupt sh*thole - and we should ALL strive to make it better – for us, and for future generations. THIS is not the country men died for. I dare say 'that element' - might just help us achieve such a nation. EVERYBODY has something to offer - keep an open mind, we are not as different as some think - and are certainly more alike than not.

They’re more like the Scottish than the Irish, and I don’t just mean the unionists/loyalists.

Wilhelm III

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

They’re more like the Scottish than the Irish, and I don’t just mean the unionists/loyalists.

I can only assume you don't live near the border / nor do you frequent / visit the place. 'They' are the same as us - and by 'they' I mean the Northern Irish - Protestant, Catholic, Nationalist / Republican, Loyalist / Unionist, sure - some of them Ulster Scots talk a bit funny – but that doesn't make them aliens, they've been here HUNDREDS and HUNDREDS of years, at what point will you consider them natives in their own right? I think they've stuck around long enough to have earned a place at the table - the table of a new and prosperous nation of equals, they are not our enemies, nor should we view them as such - they are our future friends and equals.

Come on Reggie!! I'm NEVER gonna give up on you - so join me, let's f***ing do this! !

LuasSimon

Antrim is the only county left with a unionist majority and even that is narrowing . Fermanagh would be narrowly nationalist , on the island of Ireland unionists wouldn’t be much more than 10-12% of the island’s population.

cgcsb

Podge_irl wrote: »

That is not how devolved govts work. They would obviously need to have representation in the Dáil also.

Obviously they'd still have TDs but they'd do their squabbling locally.

View

L1011 wrote: »

On the basis of their last AE results, they would have 20-25 TDs in a Dáil based on the current constitutional basis; along with 7-8 UUP. This would be out of 64 additional TDs for NI and assuming it wouldn't be as cleanly divided in to 5 seat constituencies that deliver more for smaller parties and less for bigger like the Assembly is.

Indeed, unionist politicians would probably hold the balance of power in the Dáil after many of our elections. They’d be able to demand, and probably get, three or four senior ministerial positions.

They might even go all "continental” and follow the example of other EU countries where a smaller party often demands and gets the position of Premier.

I wonder how people would react if we ended up with Sammy Wilson as our next Premier. :-)


Note: I use the title of Premier as titles in Irish such as Taoiseach would almost certainly be gone in the aftermath of any negotiated settlement.

BonnieSituation

View wrote: »

Indeed, unionist politicians would probably hold the balance of power in the Dáil after many of our elections. They’d be able to demand, and probably get, three or four senior ministerial positions.

They might even go all "continental” and follow the example of other EU countries where a smaller party often demands and gets the position of Premier.

I wonder how people would react if we ended up with Sammy Wilson as our next Premier. :-)


Note: I use the title of Premier as titles in Irish such as Taoiseach would almost certainly be gone in the aftermath of any negotiated settlement.

They're not gone yet.

Jesus are we gonna change EVERYTHING as a sop to belligerent unionists who have no intention of voting for, or engaging in a UI.

Honestly, trying to placate the extreme wings of Unionism never gets anywhere. Time to move on without them.

The fear of fadas is something they need to grow up about.

View

BonnieSituation wrote: »

They're not gone yet.

Jesus are we gonna change EVERYTHING as a sop to belligerent unionists who have no intention of voting for, or engaging in a UI.

Honestly, trying to placate the extreme wings of Unionism never gets anywhere. Time to move on without them.

The fear of fadas is something they need to grow up about.

The comments I made are in the context of any possible future united Ireland coming about after a “deal” is negotiated and, just as the possible deal that could have re-unified Cyprus back in 2004, that deal would involve lots of compromises that people would have to “swallow” if they genuinely wanted a united Ireland to come about and, most important of all, succeed.

BonnieSituation

View wrote: »

The comments I made are in the context of any possible future united Ireland coming about after a “deal” is negotiated and, just as the possible deal that could have re-unified Cyprus back in 2004, that deal would involve lots of compromises that people would have to “swallow” if they genuinely wanted a united Ireland to come about and, most important of all, succeed.

Isn't it funny how compromise is always required on the nationalist side...

[Deleted User]

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Isn't it funny how compromise is always required on the nationalist side...

Actually joining the republic would be a massive compromise for unionists as is.
If Irish people want a United Ireland, then they need to make changes in order to welcome unionists.
And everyone should be aware before any vote as to what exactly would happen.

milehip

Is there anything to be said for another mass/option?

Independence for NI from the UK for a decade or so, let them stand on their own hind legs for a bit.

The notion that NI passes straight from the UK to The ROI seamlessly is fantasy at best .
We can't just absorb them like a twin in the womb and a simple yes/no referendum a lá brexit should be avoided.

PeadarCo

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Isn't it funny how compromise is always required on the nationalist side...

That's what you would expect given that nationalists are trying to change the status quo. If you want to persuade your fellow Irish people to agree to that change you are going to have to address their concerns in some shape or form which means compromising at least at a high level. The biggest barrier to a united Ireland is not the British but Irish people in the unionist communities. In the short term getting the NI assembly working would be progress. None of the issues around flags, parades, language etc will go away with a united Ireland.

Kaybaykwah

North ‘slowly becoming part of united Ireland’, says former British chancellor

I think the key word here is "slowly".

View

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Isn't it funny how compromise is always required on the nationalist side...

Either you genuinely want a united Ireland to come about, and succeed, or you don’t.

If you aren’t willing to compromise then forget about a united Ireland.

If you are willing, then you need to accept that there’s going to have to be compromises, from both “sides”, that you will not like and be prepared to live with them.

cgcsb

View wrote: »

Indeed, unionist politicians would probably hold the balance of power in the Dáil after many of our elections. They’d be able to demand, and probably get, three or four senior ministerial positions.

They might even go all "continental” and follow the example of other EU countries where a smaller party often demands and gets the position of Premier.

I wonder how people would react if we ended up with Sammy Wilson as our next Premier. :-)


Note: I use the title of Premier as titles in Irish such as Taoiseach would almost certainly be gone in the aftermath of any negotiated settlement.

They really aren't that good at politics they wouldn't be able to reach such a position. There won't be a change to official titles.

osarusan

Let it continue to happen 'slowly' until demographic and attitudinal changes mean that referenda across ROI, NI, and UK are a formality.

cgcsb

Some Irish people really make me laugh, tripping over themselves to appease unionism. The same unionists that view you as vermin. You're talking about a political organisation that still opposes basic recognition of the Irish language. The UUP had it effectively banned until the 90s. If they weren't battered into accepting the current set up then we'd still have a 1950s style NI.
Look if they want to have an English passport, keep the 12th as a local back holiday and keep the common travel area they can, provided the English agree. Concessions would be available of they were coming from a position of strength. They'd be coming from having lost a referendum on sheer numbers despite having fought it every step of the way. Theyve resisted contributing to all ireland forums on the matter so cant look for concessions after the fact. That's like Germany having lost every inch of its home territory at the end of the war and then putting conditions on surrender....its too late.

Seth Brundle

There was an article in the FT yesterday which was describing the wonderful efforts by the DUP to help ensure a united Ireland...

https://twitter.com/robertshrimsley/status/1351954872636239873

[Deleted User]

cgcsb wrote: »

Some Irish people really make me laugh, tripping over themselves to appease unionism. The same unionists that view you as vermin. You're talking about a political organisation that still opposes basic recognition of the Irish language. The UUP had it effectively banned until the 90s. If they weren't battered into accepting the current set up then we'd still have a 1950s style NI.
Look if they want to have an English passport, keep the 12th as a local back holiday and keep the common travel area they can, provided the English agree. Concessions would be available of they were coming from a position of strength. They'd be coming from having lost a referendum on sheer numbers despite having fought it every step of the way. Theyve resisted contributing to all ireland forums on the matter so cant look for concessions after the fact. That's like Germany having lost every inch of its home territory at the end of the war and then putting conditions on surrender....its too late.

And this is why a United Ireland will not happen in my lifetime!

riffmongous

Don't people actually know anything about why the 12th is celebrated? Why would anyone give a shít about an Orange March in an independent united Ireland? I'd have no problem with them marching, I reckon it would very quickly go the way of the modern St Patrick's Day parades

TheBoyConor

What will happen to the likes of the various IRA and other republican factions if there is a united ireland? Will they all just go "ah grand so, now" and disband and disarm and just tell stories to the grandkids about their 'RA days?
Or will they find issue with the united ireland, perhaps that it is not in keeping with the Proclamation of the Irish Republic that the men of 1916 and so many before them, died for, maybe arguing that it is some sort of 32 county Free-State, in thrall to the unionists? Perhaps they will be opposed to the watering down of republican symbols and traditions. And vow to keep up the struggle to overthrow the 32 county free state and reestablish it along the lines of the 1916 Irish Republic?

As a poster says, there would possibly be some sort of treaty. Will we then be back in a situation of pro-treaty and anti-treaty sides, and we will all be shooting our cousins and brothers with Lee Enfields. Always wanted to know what it would feel like to be in a flying column!!!

Retr0gamer

bubblypop wrote: »

Actually joining the republic would be a massive compromise for unionists as is.
If Irish people want a United Ireland, then they need to make changes in order to welcome unionists.
And everyone should be aware before any vote as to what exactly would happen.

That's the problem though, I don't think Unionists will be open to any compromise. They are a minority surrounded by a majority they have treated as subhumans for years and think that it that minority gets into power they will be treated as badly if not worse for all their years of mistreatment. Unionism is basically just fear. It's got nothing to do with the benefits of staying in the UK, Brexit should be a wake up call that nobody in the rest of the UK cares about NI.

And since Unionism is just based on a primal instinct like fear it's irrational and impossible to compromise with. It will take generations of that to change but it's pretty much a cult at this stage.

cgcsb

bubblypop wrote: »

And this is why a United Ireland will not happen in my lifetime!

Unionists are becoming a minority anyway and they won't vote for it no matter what concessions you give them. You're wasting your breath.