When's calving starting 2021

Limestone Cowboy

Sami23 wrote: »

Just curious what do most on here do if anything with calves navels after birth.

Spray with Iodine
Dip in Iodine
Something else
Nothing at all

Reason I ask is neighbour recently told me he doesn't put anything on them

Nettex umbilical spray.

whelan2

Second calver belonging to young lad. Bull calf . It's an angus but has a red tint. Happy days on his birthday

tellmeabit

Helped a neighbour pull a shapely BBQ calf from a cow at the weekend, but she got stuck at the hips, is there any video or tips for turning a calf when they get stuck like this?

I tried moving cows legs, and eventually got cow to sit up and rolled her over to other side which seemed to help, the vet was on the way while I was trying to turn the cow. Calf just out as he walked into the shed.
So anyways, how should one tackle a calf stuck at hips like this?

greysides

Best way is not to get there in the beginning.

It will always happen occasionally but when BB is involved in the mix it will happen much more frequently. There could be a case made for banning the breed completely- along the lines of. Bulldog breeding and it's faults. However, that doesn't help when you've already got a problem in front of you.

There is no guaranteed answer. The first step is again to try to avoid the issue. Using experience and probabilities when things aren't going to a normal pattern NOT to pull and go with the other option. If you can't live with this, don't breed BB. That's how they came into the world themselves so what do you expect?

The essence of trying to deal with a stuck calf is that the pelvis had its widest width at the four corners, at 45° to the horizontal. Try to twist the calf's pelvis to this orientation. Easiest before he's wedged!

Rotate using a jack as his shoulders start to come through the vulva.
You may need to try to push him back in if he's wedged lightly.

Rolling the cow over or putting her on her back, wrapping the calf's body in a towel for grip and rotating may help.
Pulling one front leg at a time may 'walk 'the calf through.
Pulling with one leg ahead of the other similarly. Pull to one side with the jack then the other. These are are better before he's lodged.

If those don't work, call the vet and have him split the calf's pelvis. The calf is forfeit but if you give up quickly enough you may save the mother. Otherwise you lose both. Left to nature this man made problem would solve itself.

tellmeabit

Thanks greysides, I could feel room above the calfs hips when I put hand inside and could also feel the big arse on it.. I didn't want to force the issue with the jack so vet was called for more experienced opinion. We tried with the ropes a few times while vet on the way. After cow moved tried jack again, didn't have to put a whole pile of pressure on, think the cow started pushing again after the move with helped.
I suppose it's to know when you should call for assistance if you find yourself in that position.
My own vet would probably have told me to keep working at it. I was relieved when neighbour rang vet.
It has the frighteners put on me for the 3 blues i have left to be honest.
Thanks again

charolais0153

tellmeabit wrote: »

Thanks greysides, I could feel room above the calfs hips when I put hand inside and could also feel the big arse on it.. I didn't want to force the issue with the jack so vet was called for more experienced opinion. We tried with the ropes a few times while vet on the way. After cow moved tried jack again, didn't have to put a whole pile of pressure on, think the cow started pushing again after the move with helped.
I suppose it's to know when you should call for assistance if you find yourself in that position.
My own vet would probably have told me to keep working at it. I was relieved when neighbour rang vet.
It has the frighteners put on me for the 3 blues i have left to be honest.
Thanks again

Did the calf live

tellmeabit

charolais0153 wrote: »

Did the calf live

Ya, she needed a bit of help to stand to drink. So let her have quick suck and then milked mother and bottle fed. That was Saturday, I haven't seen since but both were fine Sunday. Will try get a pic later today.

greysides

tellmeabit wrote: »

Thanks greysides, I could feel room above the calfs hips when I put hand inside and could also feel the big arse on it.. I didn't want to force the issue with the jack so vet was called for more experienced opinion. We tried with the ropes a few times while vet on the way. After cow moved tried jack again, didn't have to put a whole pile of pressure on, think the cow started pushing again after the move with helped.
I suppose it's to know when you should call for assistance if you find yourself in that position.
My own vet would probably have told me to keep working at it. I was relieved when neighbour rang vet.
It has the frighteners put on me for the 3 blues i have left to be honest.
Thanks again

The advantage I have is I've two options open to me. The disadvantage is I've no control of breeding or feeding. A vet can't allow himself get a reputation for always operating either ..... BUT, there's very few people unhappy after a section when there's a live calf and a cow standing.

The reverse, going away leaving a dead calf, a cow down and knowing the extra work now to be done with no guarantee of success leaves a dull hurt that lasts. It's worse when the choice of approach was left to you rather than coming in to someone else's misfortune.

It has happened. It will happen again. All you can do is take away any lessons you can.

Knowing the breeding of the cow and calf, the history of calvings by the same bull, the condition of the cow and her calving history, the length overdue, how the cow has been behaving during the calving so far, etc, is a good start to making a call.

Getting your hand back behind the shoulders and feeling the muscle there and in the neck can also guide your choice.

The calf that will lead you into trouble is the hard calf after a string of easy ones; the calf with a small head and crubs but that has a huge arse.

A lot of BBx cows will calve fine. You just don't know when a super-duper will be in the barrel. Like the mechanic, all BB cows I see give problems......


I don't see the ones that don't. However most sections in beef cows that I do have a BB somewhere in the breeding.

They make lovely looking butchers heifers, don't they?

Mooooo

Have cousins that would be in to the the shows not many now but when they know what's coming they'd always ring for the vet and section ahead of attempting to pull but knowing that comes with experience too

Lady Haywire

Ha, that reminds me of the last time a vet was here taking a calf I wasn't sure of. The shoulders would fit though but he didn't go further until he asked what I wanted to do as he said it'd be tight. I said knowing the cow's history, and the bull, the shoulders would be the biggest part as the cow never brought an arse on the calves. Calf came grand.
Vet admitted after that he'd have done a section anywhere else but he trusted my knowledge. No pressure there

GiantPencil

Any one here have a calf test positive with BVD since the new rules came in? I had one a few weeks ago and it's since been culled and all females in the herd were blood tested. All came back negative thankfully and now all in calf heifers can't be sold either in case they have it.

What gets me is that on the letter I got from the dept they specifically said no re-test on the calf that tested positive. Makes me wonder could it have been false positive in the first place.

Stressful enough few weeks waiting for those blood results to come back, started looking at every heifer and thinking is the reason she's not pushing on because she has BVD etc.

charolais0153

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Ha, that reminds me of the last time a vet was here taking a calf I wasn't sure of. The shoulders would fit though but he didn't go further until he asked what I wanted to do as he said it'd be tight. I said knowing the cow's history, and the bull, the shoulders would be the biggest part as the cow never brought an arse on the calves. Calf came grand.
Vet admitted after that he'd have done a section anywhere else but he trusted my knowledge. No pressure there

Vet says , I can guarantee a live calf and cow with a section but it's a risk to both if I go jacking. Only a amadan would go jacking really. 9 times out of 10 if your calling the vet and you can't bring him, I doubt the vet is inclined to try

whelan2

GiantPencil wrote: »

Any one here have a calf test positive with BVD since the new rules came in? I had one a few weeks ago and it's since been culled and all females in the herd were blood tested. All came back negative thankfully and now all in calf heifers can't be sold either in case they have it.

What gets me is that on the letter I got from the dept they specifically said no re-test on the calf that tested positive. Makes me wonder could it have been false positive in the first place.

Stressful enough few weeks waiting for those blood results to come back, started looking at every heifer and thinking is the reason she's not pushing on because she has BVD etc.

I think kevthegaff had a positive recently on here

whelan2

tellmeabit wrote: »

Thanks greysides, I could feel room above the calfs hips when I put hand inside and could also feel the big arse on it.. I didn't want to force the issue with the jack so vet was called for more experienced opinion. We tried with the ropes a few times while vet on the way. After cow moved tried jack again, didn't have to put a whole pile of pressure on, think the cow started pushing again after the move with helped.
I suppose it's to know when you should call for assistance if you find yourself in that position.
My own vet would probably have told me to keep working at it. I was relieved when neighbour rang vet.
It has the frighteners put on me for the 3 blues i have left to be honest.
Thanks again

How's the cow?

Irish Beef

Looking for some advise here on a calf I had born last week, he was quite a big calf and took a bit of a pull but no jack involved, however he struggled to stand as he was knuckling forward on his two front legs due to shortage of space in womb, He got an injection from vet the next morning to relax the tendons to allow him to stand. He took a while to suck even from a bottle and needed to be tubed once so he was slow to get going, At this stage he is flying in all regards except one of is front legs still isn't right he still goes forward on it quite a bit. Funny thing is he can run grand but when walking or standing he tends to go forward on it. Rang the vet again to see would he need a follow up dose on the injection and he said give him more time. Just wondering what experiences people have of this issue as I think it common enough. Do they usually come right with no more intervention.

Albert Johnson

charolais0153 wrote: »

Vet says , I can guarantee a live calf and cow with a section but it's a risk to both if I go jacking. Only a amadan would go jacking really. 9 times out of 10 if your calling the vet and you can't bring him, I doubt the vet is inclined to try

I'm not a fan of vet fees or sections (it's easier recouped if it's not spent). However when the need arises then it's a no brainer to seek professional assistance. I've seen plenty of calves and undoubtedly cow's saved via section as compared to what would have donkey work with a jack. In most cases if a reasonably competent person has failed or is afraid to continue pulling a calf then a section is the answer. If you wanted to chance pulling both cow and calf asunder you'd hardly bother ringing the vet to come and do it.

tanko

Irish Beef wrote: »

Looking for some advise here on a calf I had born last week, he was quite a big calf and took a bit of a pull but no jack involved, however he struggled to stand as he was knuckling forward on his two front legs due to shortage of space in womb, He got an injection from vet the next morning to relax the tendons to allow him to stand. He took a while to suck even from a bottle and needed to be tubed once so he was slow to get going, At this stage he is flying in all regards except one of is front legs still isn't right he still goes forward on it quite a bit. Funny thing is he can run grand but when walking or standing he tends to go forward on it. Rang the vet again to see would he need a follow up dose on the injection and he said give him more time. Just wondering what experiences people have of this issue as I think it common enough. Do they usually come right with no more intervention.

I think i'd give him more time, he should come right yet.
Is his navel ok?

50HX

Keep him on a good depth of bedding

I gave 7 weeks last year with a calf that had 2 front legs bent back, made splints which were a waste of time(not quick enough post calving)

I put her on 12" of bedding and let mother in twice a day for a drink with access to water/hay/ration

I didn't think she'd straighten but by the 6th week she eventually started to come right

Still have her as I think she'll make a replacement

Patience is the key

Irish Beef

tanko wrote: »

I think i'd give him more time, he should come right yet.
Is his navel ok?

His Navel was big enough when only a day old, so very quickly, I started threating this straight away as felt this could be making him sick and putting him off drinking. took a good while to get right but seems ok now.

Irish Beef

50HX wrote: »

Keep him on a good depth of bedding

I gave 7 weeks last year with a calf that had 2 front legs bent back, made splints which were a waste of time(not quick enough post calving)

I put her on 12" of bedding and let mother in twice a day for a drink with access to water/hay/ration

I didn't think she'd straighten but by the 6th week she eventually started to come right

Still have her as I think she'll make a replacement

Patience is the key

Had him on big bed for first week and only started letting him out into a small paddock during the day thinking it might help him. kind of felt the big bed was masking the problem as he could stand with his toe pointed into the bed so taught maybe out on grass it might make him stand correctly, Have been stretching his legs daily on vets advice since birth, he now seems to have flexibility it but lacks the strength to lock his hoof back in correct position.

50HX

Time then is all he needs, you've done everything right imo

When he gets stronger and develops he should correct himself

Irish Beef

50HX wrote: »

Time then is all he needs, you've done everything right imo

When he gets stronger and develops he should correct himself

Thanks for replies, hopefully he will, have no problem giving him time.

greysides

GiantPencil wrote: »

Any one here have a calf test positive with BVD since the new rules came in? I had one a few weeks ago and it's since been culled and all females in the herd were blood tested. All came back negative thankfully and now all in calf heifers can't be sold either in case they have it.

....

Presumably all in-calf heifers were tested as calves and were negative. The PCR test checks for virus in the ear samples. Once negative, the heifers will not become carriers even if they contact the virus, they will just produce antibodies and become antibody positive. The problem is that if they are pregnant at the time they contact the virus the calf may become persistently infected - a carrier. The rules are there to stop any potential carriers being sold on.

If the in-calf heifers were blood tested for antibody and were negative then (as the PCR test says they're not carriers - carriers are also antibody negative) they haven't been exposed to the virus and their calves can't be carriers.

This should allow you to sell them.


(If they've been already vaccinated you're snookered as that will make them antibody positive.)

Johnchaff

I had one like that last year and I think a shot of vitesel would be no harm its a vitamin injection with extra vitamin e and outside if possible. Everything you are doing is perfect in my opinion. Good luck with him.

Barron lad

Has anyone on here any experience of inducing cows ? Is there an issue getting them back in calf ?

tellmeabit

greysides wrote: »

The advantage I have is I've two options open to me. The disadvantage is I've no control of breeding or feeding. A vet can't allow himself get a reputation for always operating either ..... BUT, there's very few people unhappy after a section when there's a live calf and a cow standing.

The reverse, going away leaving a dead calf, a cow down and knowing the extra work now to be done with no guarantee of success leaves a dull hurt that lasts. It's worse when the choice of approach was left to you rather than coming in to someone else's misfortune.

It has happened. It will happen again. All you can do is take away any lessons you can.

Knowing the breeding of the cow and calf, the history of calvings by the same bull, the condition of the cow and her calving history, the length overdue, how the cow has been behaving during the calving so far, etc, is a good start to making a call.

Getting your hand back behind the shoulders and feeling the muscle there and in the neck can also guide your choice.

The calf that will lead you into trouble is the hard calf after a string of easy ones; the calf with a small head and crubs but that has a huge arse.

A lot of BBx cows will calve fine. You just don't know when a super-duper will be in the barrel. Like the mechanic, all BB cows I see give problems......


I don't see the ones that don't. However most sections in beef cows that I do have a BB somewhere in the breeding.

They make lovely looking butchers heifers, don't they?

Ya, agree with all said here. Haven't bought an animal in well over 20 years here. Was tempted to buy a full sister of the neighbours calf I pulled but the fear of not knowing what way she would calve puts me off. My own aren't classy cows just good honest ones for most part. Keep the family that are quite, easy calved and milky. Sometimes not so milky. Used to give cows here meal over winter as knew they could calf after but since started the Ai I'm only giving it to calves.

tellmeabit

whelan2 wrote: »

How's the cow?

She was up and at it straight away. Didn't seem to knock much outta her. I'm bring last year's heifers, same bull to mart this evening So will get pic.

tellmeabit

Bit of a salers bull here, 282 days. Her 1st time up 30mths old. Had to help get the head out and then calved away.was hoping for 2 heifers off the salers bulls I tried. Both bulls. Had 7 I really hoped for heifers, only 2 came. Suppose rest will be heifers now 🙄

Irish Beef

Johnchaff wrote: »

I had one like that last year and I think a shot of vitesel would be no harm its a vitamin injection with extra vitamin e and outside if possible. Everything you are doing is perfect in my opinion. Good luck with him.

Ya he got the vitesel injection on day 2, he's outside during the days and in at night for another few days anyway, he seems to have the flexibility in the joint over the hoof but lacks the strength to hold his hoof down on ground correctly , it tend to go forward on him, sometimes you'll see him doing it correctly and then he'll knuckle forward on it, hopefully as he strengthens he'll be able to correct the problem, He's a cracker of a calf, they always are I suppose that why it happens.

tanko

Barron lad wrote: »

Has anyone on here any experience of inducing cows ? Is there an issue getting them back in calf ?

With inducing there's a risk the cow will hold the cleaning, this could cause infection and delay or stop her going back in calf. Not always but sometimes.
Unless there's a very good reason for inducing i don't think it's a great job, they'll calve when they're good and ready.

Mooooo

Another big calf out of HE 4297. 4 days over had to Jack him out, cow weak on left side. Had about 15 calves out of him and had to Jack 3. All on 2nd plus lactation cows and strong ones at that. Dunno will I use him again tbh. Supposed to be polled so u thought the head might be smaller but big heads and a share of em with marching bodies to boot

Dunedin

Irish Beef wrote: »

Ya he got the vitesel injection on day 2, he's outside during the days and in at night for another few days anyway, he seems to have the flexibility in the joint over the hoof but lacks the strength to hold his hoof down on ground correctly , it tend to go forward on him, sometimes you'll see him doing it correctly and then he'll knuckle forward on it, hopefully as he strengthens he'll be able to correct the problem, He's a cracker of a calf, they always are I suppose that why it happens.

Have often had ones like that and they’ve always come right so hopefully you’ll have good outcome. Have one this year and he came right after a weeek and he’s flying it now.

tellmeabit

The Bbq heifer from weekend.
Her full sister is lot number 715 in gortalea this evening..

Dozer1

Have you a pre guaranteed price for this evening :D:D
best of luck either way with her

tellmeabit

Dozer1 wrote: »

Have you a pre guaranteed price for this evening :D:D
best of luck either way with her

Not mine, but he normally comes away with huge smile on him. I was tempted to buy in the yard.
He keeps 6 cows and I can never figure out is it the breeding or meal that he is bale to get them like he does. I'd be selling 2 to get same as he does for 1.

In queue for over an hour earlier. Back there at 2, and already 200 lots in. Annoying enough when you see lads driving up skipping on ahead.
Maurice doesn't hand out the numbers early... ha ha

Sami23

How soon on average are ye letting cows and calves out to grass after calving.
I'm debating whether to let a few out tomorrow but worried about the harsh weather forecast from Sunday on ?

minerleague

Sami23 wrote: »

How soon on average are ye letting cows and calves out to grass after calving.
I'm debating whether to let a few out tomorrow but worried about the harsh weather forecast from Sunday on ?

Let them off, they look after themselves better than any farmer! Most of mine calve outside, never see any harm come to them as long as they are suckling regular ( cow not kicking, large teats etc). Trying to find them hidden in ditches is another story. Let them off early in morning so they get used to being out, and in small bunches if you can manage it ( you can join small bunches together the in a few days)

squinn2912

We’ve got ours out in groups of 4 and 2 with their Calves. Youngest calves are a good week old going out though. I worry about tetany a bit but they’re getting hay and licks. They say second grazing is lushier grass and worse risk though
If weather gets very dirty they’ll come back in

ABitofsense

Sami23 wrote: »

How soon on average are ye letting cows and calves out to grass after calving.
I'm debating whether to let a few out tomorrow but worried about the harsh weather forecast from Sunday on ?

Once they can suck, walk & not overly bad weather I let them out here. Always in the morning and into the sheltered paddocks 1st so they understand the electric fence. Some could be a couple hours old. Never had a problem.

High bike

Sami23 wrote: »

How soon on average are ye letting cows and calves out to grass after calving.
I'm debating whether to let a few out tomorrow but worried about the harsh weather forecast from Sunday on ?

Out here within 24 hrs of calving weather permitting ,so long as they are sucking and have shelter.They toughen up very quickly and no scour

endainoz

Irish Beef wrote: »

Looking for some advise here on a calf I had born last week, he was quite a big calf and took a bit of a pull but no jack involved, however he struggled to stand as he was knuckling forward on his two front legs due to shortage of space in womb, He got an injection from vet the next morning to relax the tendons to allow him to stand. He took a while to suck even from a bottle and needed to be tubed once so he was slow to get going, At this stage he is flying in all regards except one of is front legs still isn't right he still goes forward on it quite a bit. Funny thing is he can run grand but when walking or standing he tends to go forward on it. Rang the vet again to see would he need a follow up dose on the injection and he said give him more time. Just wondering what experiences people have of this issue as I think it common enough. Do they usually come right with no more intervention.

I had a calf with the same issue a couple of years ago with the legs knuckling forward, was good and lively, had no issues sucking and the legs came right after a couple of weeks. I'd agree with the advice, just a bit of time.

Sami23

Just wondering do ye usually feed any meal (dairy nuts) to sucklers over the summer to help drive on the milk and also keep them quiet for moving them etc.

50HX

Sami23 wrote: »

Just wondering do ye usually feed any meal (dairy nuts) to sucklers over the summer to help drive on the milk and also keep them quiet for moving them etc.

I don't anyway, name of the game here is to keep costs to a minimum

Cows are milky enough, if they weren't I think creep feeding the calves would give a better return imo

endainoz

Sami23 wrote: »

Just wondering do ye usually feed any meal (dairy nuts) to sucklers over the summer to help drive on the milk and also keep them quiet for moving them etc.

I'd give them nuts with the calves for a bit late in the summer for ease of weaning but not for milk, surely fresh grass at turnout is the best way to do that.

tellmeabit

No, cows get nothing. I am wondering if they should be getting minerals all through year alright

greysides

tellmeabit wrote: »

No, cows get nothing. I am wondering if they should be getting minerals all through year alright

Boluses.

ABitofsense

Sami23 wrote: »

Just wondering do ye usually feed any meal (dairy nuts) to sucklers over the summer to help drive on the milk and also keep them quiet for moving them etc.

I use nuts to get the cows in to the yard for everything from AI to dosing, dehorning calves etc. So just sprinkle on the passage way of the slated Shed. All I need to then is just call them and they all come, no running after them or anything. That's the only nuts the cows get. I've them well trained & saves alot of time & stress

Sami23

ABitofsense wrote: »

I use nuts to get the cows in to the yard for everything from AI to dosing, dehorning calves etc. So just sprinkle on the passage way of the slated Shed. All I need to then is just call them and they all come, no running after them or anything. That's the only nuts the cows get. I've them well trained & saves alot of time & stress

So ud just give them nuts in those particular days and not all summer is it ?

funkey_monkey

greysides wrote: »

Boluses.

Are there any mineral bolouses to give to pre-calving cows instead of powdered minerals over silage?

ABitofsense

Sami23 wrote: »

So ud just give them nuts in those particular days and not all summer is it ?

Exactly & it would only be a bucket full between them, It's being done like that the last few years. The calves even get used to it so when they grow to heifers & cows it's already familiar to them. Makes herding them very easy.