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Have you been fined and will you pay?

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    #212
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You'd probably make more money than the cost of the fine, by selling the story, along with a picture of you looking depressed, holding the fine, to the newspaper.

    That said, if I found myself in the same situation you were in (told I was being fined), I think I'd opt to escalate it there at the roadside. Request a sergeant to pop out to you or, if the roadside Garda is being uncooperative, pull in up the road from the checkpoint and call the local station.

    I wouldn't be at all impressed, although i have been through about a dozen checkpoints and all but one of them were telling me i was grand before i even told them what i was at. The one exception was a Garda that asked for my letter from work, barely glanced in the direction of it, and told me to fire ahead. It's odd that they gave you a hard time.

    He didn't give a hard time, he was mannerly he just ignored the fact that I'm an essential worker.

    A colleague also pointed out that the fines are only for people who do not follow direction - this guy didn't offer me the opportunity to back the road I came, he simply said I was going to get a fine for being outside my 5k.


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    #213
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    He didn't give a hard time, he was mannerly he just ignored the fact that I'm an essential worker.

    A colleague also pointed out that the fines are only for people who do not follow direction - this guy didn't offer me the opportunity to back the road I came, he simply said I was going to get a fine for being outside my 5k.

    Surely all you have to do is tell your employer? There is no way they can make a fine stick on someone who is classed as an essential worker, on work related business, or travelling to or from work.


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    #214
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Surely all you have to do is tell your employer? There is no way they can make a fine stick on someone who is classed as an essential worker, on work related business, or travelling to or from work.

    my employer was told within 5mins of the event, followed by my wife, employer isn't offering to pay (YET) but they will if I push it, I'm refusing to pay IF I receive a fine, its entirely possible that he won't actually send a fine, but he took details and said I was going to get one.


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    #215
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    my employer was told within 5mins of the event, followed by my wife, employer isn't offering to pay (YET) but they will if I push it, I'm refusing to pay IF I receive a fine, its entirely possible that he won't actually send a fine, but he took details and said I was going to get one.

    I'm curious to know: you called yourself a photojournalist so,

    Are you a Journalist? I assume this means you have membership of the NUJ or similar?

    Are you full time with your employer who are a media outlet, or is this a contract and you're self employed making money from commercial photography?

    I ask these questions as I imagine official journalistic and media related companies have a dispensation and are considered an essential service but I'd hazard a guess that a commercial photography business may not be deemed an essential service.

    Has your employer got confirmation from Government agency that they and their employees work, are indeed an essential service?

    I don't wish ill towards you but things are reasonably clear when it comes to what is and isn't an essential service and you can always obtain guidance from official government agencies if in doubt. Just because 9 guards waved you on doesn't mean the 10th guard won't take issue.

    The question boils down to, have you been deemed an essential service, by some official government body, and someone, other than yourself?

    EDIT_ I see you've answered all those questions a number of pages back-


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    #216
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm curious to know: you called yourself a photojournalist so,

    Are you a Journalist? I assume this means you have membership of the NUJ or similar?

    Are you full time with your employer who are a media outlet, or is this a contract and you're self employed making money from commercial photography?

    I ask these questions as I imagine official journalistic and media related companies have a dispensation and are considered an essential service but I'd hazard a guess that a commercial photography business may not be deemed an essential service.

    Has your employer got confirmation from Government agency that they and their employees work, are indeed an essential service?

    I don't wish ill towards you but things are reasonably clear when it comes to what is and isn't an essential service and you can always obtain guidance from official government agencies if in doubt. Just because 9 guards waved you on doesn't mean the 10th guard won't take issue.

    The question boils down to, have you been deemed an essential service, by some official government body, and someone, other than yourself?

    Short answer is yes, I am a photojournalist (a photographer that takes photos and sends them directly to newspapers) - I am no longer a member of the NUJ - I was a member until 2005ish when they refused to get involved in a bullying action, I stopped paying and refused to continue being a member. I have continually worked as a photojournalist for 20ish years, working 6 days a week for nearly 8yrs.

    On the day I was working for an agency who are contracted to supply images for multiple newspapers, which has been my role for 10+ years, I have been working both as a freelancer and agency photographer for almost 20yrs.

    As for the last paragraph - I believe it was the taoiseach at the time (Leo varadkar) who said that members of the media are essential workers, so yes a government department has said that my work is considered essential.


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    #217
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 18,205 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    just on people doing weird sh1t this year, drivers making a mess of the promenade in Sandymount, parking where there is none, clamp away boys

    https://twitter.com/Annahadfield/status/1353007865540325382

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #218
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    Short answer is yes, I am a photojournalist (a photographer that takes photos and sends them directly to newspapers) - I am no longer a member of the NUJ - I was a member until 2005ish when they refused to get involved in a bullying action, I stopped paying and refused to continue being a member. I have continually worked as a photojournalist for 20ish years, working 6 days a week for nearly 8yrs.

    On the day I was working for an agency who are contracted to supply images for multiple newspapers, which has been my role for 10+ years, I have been working both as a freelancer and agency photographer for almost 20yrs.

    As for the last paragraph - I believe it was the taoiseach at the time (Leo varadkar) who said that members of the media are essential workers, so yes a government department has said that my work is considered essential.

    OK, so I'll throw a spanner into the works and again, I'm not trying to get at you- I'm all for as many people as possible going about their paid business as possible, as long as they're doing it safely, so we can keep some type of economy going

    - I work in an industry that's classed as an "essential service"- however, not all activities completed by staff in the organisation i'm employed by, are deemed "essential". I'd need a letter from my employer if I were to leave my house to work in the office and I won't get that unless the activity i'm doing is deemed "essential" that i attend an office etc.

    It could be argued that your agency could have got a photo of kids playing in the snow etc by a locally based photographer or that getting such a photo wasn't "essential" in the first instance- the wording is don't travel outside of your 5km unless "absolutely essential" - the guard obviously followed the letter, of the law and decided that your trip, regardless of your journalist status, was not an essential trip.


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    #219
    Padre_Pio
    Registered Users Posts: 5,141 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Deleted User wrote: »
    - I work in an industry that's classed as an "essential service"- however, not all activities completed by staff in the organisation i'm employed by, are deemed "essential". I'd need a letter from my employer if I were to leave my house to work in the office and I won't get that unless the activity i'm doing is deemed "essential" that i attend an office etc.

    It could be argued that your agency could have got a photo of kids playing in the snow etc by a locally based photographer or that getting such a photo wasn't "essential" in the first instance- the wording is don't travel outside of your 5km unless "absolutely essential" - the guard obviously followed the letter, of the law and decided that your trip, regardless of your journalist status, was not an essential trip.

    1.
    The letter is basically just a "Joe Bloggs works for XXX company which has been classed as an essential service and is exempt from travel restrictions."

    there's nothing special about it, no stamps or stickers. Just a letter than anyone could make.

    2.
    Gardai should not have any power to determine what is or is not essential. The guidelines published by the government are just that:
    You can travel for the following reasons:

    travel to and from work, where work involves providing an essential service
    From the list of essential services:
    Information and communications
    The following services relating to information and communications:

    the production and publication of newspapers, journals and periodicals and the distribution of those publications, whether in hardcopy or digital format
    the production of television and radio programmes, video, sound, digital or other electronic content and the broadcast or publication of the same to the public or a portion of the public

    So you're producing content for a newspaper. Essential service. End of story


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    #220
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 16,201 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    silverharp wrote: »
    just on people doing weird sh1t this year, drivers making a mess of the promenade in Sandymount, parking where there is none, clamp away boys

    https://twitter.com/Annahadfield/status/1353007865540325382

    Idiot shouldn't have parked there in first place.
    Getting stuck would serve them right.


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    #221
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Padre_Pio wrote: »
    1.
    The letter is basically just a "Joe Bloggs works for XXX company which has been classed as an essential service and is exempt from travel restrictions."

    there's nothing special about it, no stamps or stickers. Just a letter than anyone could make.

    2.
    Gardai should not have any power to determine what is or is not essential. The guidelines published by the government are just that:


    From the list of essential services:


    So you're producing content for a newspaper. Essential service. End of story

    Indeed that would be my interpretation also- i'm not disagreeing with you. Obviously the guard took a micro view and decided that regardless of the fact the poster was supplying an essential service, this particular trip wasn't essential- which seem incredible in itself, considering up to now, inform first was their approach to all of this.


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    #222
    Tenzor07
    Registered Users Posts: 8,690 ✭✭✭Tenzor07


    silverharp wrote: »
    just on people doing weird sh1t this year, drivers making a mess of the promenade in Sandymount, parking where there is none, clamp away boys

    Probably driven by a local who lives within a 15 mins walk of the Sandymount seafront...I mean who doesn't need an €82,000++ Volvo SUV to drive to go for a walk?


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    #223
    Jimjay
    Registered Users Posts: 800 ✭✭✭Jimjay


    You can travel for the following reasons:

    travel to and from work, where work involves providing an essential service

    I have a small business which is closed due to Covid restrictions.
    The business is outside of 5km from my home. It is not essential but the government have said we (was able to click and collect) can click and deliver.

    I emailed the department of business and enterprise for confirmation about travelling to and from non essential work outside of 5km for fulfilling online orders. The response i got is that i could travel to fulfil orders as long as the admin is done from home and strict social distancing is done at the workplace.

    So the only travel to work for essential travel is not fully correct.


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    #224
    bodhrandude
    Registered Users Posts: 12,558 ✭✭✭✭bodhrandude


    Any follow up on your case Irishphotodesk, did you receive a fine in the post.

    If you want to get into it, you got to get out of it. (Hawkwind 1982)



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    #225
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    bodhrandude wrote: »
    Any follow up on your case Irishphotodesk, did you receive a fine in the post.

    Nothing yet


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    #226
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,657 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    I'm a photographer and was waved through every block as soon as I explained what I was doing Irishphotodesk.


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    #227
    Irishphotodesk
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭Irishphotodesk


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    I'm a photographer and was waved through every block as soon as I explained what I was doing Irishphotodesk.

    Oh I'm the same ... On the day the Garda said he was going to fine me, I had already passed 3 checkpoints and passed a further 4 after this checkpoint, no issues .

    I pass at least 1 a day when working and has never been any issues.


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    #228
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,657 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    Irishphotodesk wrote: »
    Oh I'm the same ... On the day the Garda said he was going to fine me, I had already passed 3 checkpoints and passed a further 4 after this checkpoint, no issues .

    I pass at least 1 a day when working and has never been any issues.

    OK... you just got one on a bad day. Or an idiot. Let us know how you get on and best of luck, it's not easy to make money these days.


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    #229
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    OK, so I'll throw a spanner into the works and again, I'm not trying to get at you- I'm all for as many people as possible going about their paid business as possible, as long as they're doing it safely, so we can keep some type of economy going

    - I work in an industry that's classed as an "essential service"- however, not all activities completed by staff in the organisation i'm employed by, are deemed "essential". I'd need a letter from my employer if I were to leave my house to work in the office and I won't get that unless the activity i'm doing is deemed "essential" that i attend an office etc.

    It could be argued that your agency could have got a photo of kids playing in the snow etc by a locally based photographer or that getting such a photo wasn't "essential" in the first instance- the wording is don't travel outside of your 5km unless "absolutely essential" - the guard obviously followed the letter, of the law and decided that your trip, regardless of your journalist status, was not an essential trip.

    Guard was incorrect, I’d say it will be quashed before any court date as the gardai do not want to look unprofessional/stupid around these laws. A said previously the guard does not get to decide what stories/pictures by a journalist are essential as that is essentially censorship. Guard did not follow the letter of the law as I pointed out in an earlier post which stated the statute and section which gives the powers.


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    #230
    kennethsmyth
    Registered Users Posts: 1,182 ✭✭✭kennethsmyth


    Jimjay wrote: »
    I have a small business which is closed due to Covid restrictions.
    The business is outside of 5km from my home. It is not essential but the government have said we (was able to click and collect) can click and deliver.

    I emailed the department of business and enterprise for confirmation about travelling to and from non essential work outside of 5km for fulfilling online orders. The response i got is that i could travel to fulfil orders as long as the admin is done from home and strict social distancing is done at the workplace.

    So the only travel to work for essential travel is not fully correct.

    You can be performing an essential duty in a non essential business. Eg payroll (if system doesn’t work remotely) etc. Checking mail etc.


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