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UK/Ireland Zero Covid Area

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    is_that_so wrote: »
    300 roads and political realities say can't.

    Who cares if ireland and UK are a zero covid zone.


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    #33
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Who cares if ireland and UK are a zero covid zone.
    Political realities are what make these things happen.


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    #34
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Who cares if ireland and UK are a zero covid zone.

    Go way with your unionist sh1te.


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    #35
    lalababa
    Registered Users Posts: 1,734 ✭✭✭lalababa


    The_Brood wrote: »
    Except that New Zealand very much is real and succesful in its handling of the epidemic? An island is an island. Everything else is politics.

    Please anyone explain to me the exact reason why the island of Ireland cannot totally shut down any and all border travel other than for obvious essentials. And before you finish the sentence, explain why that is more difficult to do than, say, locking down the entire population for nearly a year, and destroying the economy and people's lives?

    And explain why government officials should not be put in prison for refusing to lock down the borders because of whatever political consideration, but feel completely free to destroy all our collective lives?

    A very severe lockdown of international travel into Rep of Ireland is and would have been an excellent strategy. Unfortunately there is a wooly feely touchcy sentimental political idea that european borders are always open (to each other) and 'we are all in this together' type thing...same with NI. A sentimentality that doesn't quiet take account of a once in a lifetime pandemic.
    They would have more precautions for foot & mouth because they're used to it!


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    #36
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    lalababa wrote: »
    A very severe lockdown of international travel into Rep of Ireland is and would have been an excellent strategy. Unfortunately there is a wooly feely touchcy sentimental political idea that european borders are always open (to each other) and 'we are all in this together' type thing...same with NI. A sentimentality that doesn't quiet take account of a once in a lifetime pandemic.
    They would have more precautions for foot & mouth because they're used to it!

    Cows are not people. There is nothing DUP wants more than for Ireland to prove that border on the island of Ireland is indeed possible. It gives them great argument in 4 years time cancel the Northern Irish protocol.


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    #37
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    If it starts... is already the case (vaccine efficacy reduced from 90% to 50% with SA strain) hence eus/UK recent change in stance. The only foregiveness i can give to european leadership for this nonsense in last 12 months is europe is very fragmented. Billions of the worlds populations leaderships realised zero covid was only strategy to follow one year ago. Very disappointed with european and irish leadership. Were credit is due hard left in ireland have been shouting this from the start. Varadkar has been on the wrong side of this from the start. Can he talk his way out of this one?

    Have you a link to where the efficacy being reduced to 50% has been Confirmed?
    Didn't realise that this has been confirmed now.

    And again you are ignoring the elephant in the room with the border and how we would some how convince Arlene and the unionists to join us on this zero Covid all Ireland approach?


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    Go way with your unionist sh1te.

    Yes keep the hospitals full, trapped in our homes and unemployment queue long but we keep our total independece. De Valera also had entrenched views of ireland with country banjaxed and mass emmigration. It was not until Lemass found a new strategy that was pragmatic and helped ireland.


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    #39
    funnydoggy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,064 ✭✭✭funnydoggy


    We can't even get social distancing and mask wearing right, and people want zero COVID to work. I dunno, I'm not seeing it.

    Then again I'm jaded at this stage. Whatever gets us out of here fastest is enough.


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    Have you a link to where the efficacy being reduced to 50% has been Confirmed?
    Didn't realise that this has been confirmed now.

    And again you are ignoring the elephant in the room with the border and how we would some how convince Arlene and the unionists to join us on this zero Covid all Ireland approach?

    Look it up.

    Agreement is between westminister and dublin. Not dublin and belfast.


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    #41
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    Deleted User wrote: »
    and unable to treat people for cancer etc.

    I'm sorry, I've going to have to correct you there. There's been delays but our hospitals have continued to work. There's clinics for all sort of different ailments and surgerys are going ahead and people are in ICU for non Covid things and there's separate streams in hospital emergency departments for non covid things. So to say we are unable to treat people for cancer is plain wrong. It's part of the reason we had to shutdown, so we could somewhat manage to continue doing that, despite delays in clinics and surgeries.


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    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    I'm sorry, I've going to have to correct you there. There's been delays but our hospitals have continued to work. There's clinics for all sort of different ailments and surgerys are going ahead and people are in ICU for non Covid things and there's separate streams in hospital emergency departments for non covid things. So to say we are unable to treat people for cancer is plain wrong. It's part of the reason we had to shutdown, so we could somewhat manage to continue doing that, despite delays in clinics and surgeries.

    I know lots of people whos surgeries had to be cancelled, especially this winter and people avoiding hospitals altogether with serious conditions.


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Golfman64 wrote: »
    A reduction of the Pfizer vaccine efficacy against the SA variant has not been shown or proven in any way. In fact Pfizer themselves have said it is unlikely but are currently testing. They have confirmed the UK variant has no effect on efficacy. As it stand, with the vaccine roll out underway, it seems that governments are seeking to talk a more cautious approach to things over the coming few months to allow a smooth deployment of the vaccine and hopefully a more normal summer throughout Europe.

    Yes nothing to see here. I just came up with the idea in my head.


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.breakingnews.ie/amp/covid-vaccine/matt-hancock-warns-of-evidence-south-african-variant-could-cut-vaccine-efficacy-1069007.html&ved=2ahUKEwj1hLT8tbLuAhWwXhUIHfjXDpEQ0PADegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw2r2yBS8sOjX4vKwGVOPJt1&ampcf=1&cshid=1611417525691


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    #44
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I know lots of people whos surgeries had to be cancelled, especially this winter and people avoiding hospitals altogether with serious conditions.



    As beds arent available due to Covid patients taking up those beds, do you expect covid patients to be left to die on the streets? Theres a big difference between surgeries being unfortunately cancelled and not being scheduled in the first place which is what happened during the first lockdown.


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    As beds arent available due to Covid patients taking up those beds, do you expect covid patients to be left to die on the streets? Theres a big difference between surgeries being unfortunately cancelled and not being scheduled in the first place which is what happened during the first lockdown.

    Hse has to make clinical decisions. I.e do not turn away covid patients who could die within days. Turn away cancer patients who could be dead within months. Not the fault of hse/hospitals. Do you think in austrailia cancer patients are turned away. Hospitals are doing the best they can in circumstances. Its government strategy that allows people unrestricted into our country that is wrong, not the healthcare workers who have taken a serious burden for too long.


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    #46
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Look it up.

    Agreement is between westminister and dublin. Not dublin and belfast.

    So we need the UK government to effectively cut off NI and tell them they have to quarantine themselves away from the rest of the UK.

    How do you propose we convince them to do that? This is pie in the sky stuff, the UK or the unionists in the North are never going to accept that.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    So we need the UK government to effectively cut off NI and tell them they have to quarantine themselves away from the rest of the UK.

    How do you propose we convince them to do that? This is pie in the sky stuff, the UK or the unionists in the North are never going to accept that.


    Its a zone for all of uk/ireland. Free movement in the zone. Unionists dont have to agree to anything. Westminister says essential travel only and uk enforces it. Ireland does the same and piggy backs off their restrictions. Its basically the old term "british isles".


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Not posting in this thread anymore. Its a swamp discussion that goes no where. Its going to happen but i couldnt be bothered discussing anymore.


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    #49
    Coybig_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 454 ✭✭Coybig_


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Not posting in this thread anymore. Its a swamp discussion that goes no where. Its going to happen but i couldnt be bothered discussing anymore.

    Yeah good riddance.

    Here's why we should go for 0 Covid!

    *Ignores everything which says we shouldn't*

    Nobody is listening I don't wanna talk anymore!


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    #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Coybig_ wrote: »
    Yeah good riddance.

    Here's why we should go for 0 Covid!

    *Ignores everything which says we shouldn't*

    Nobody is listening I don't wanna talk anymore!

    Whatever...

    European leaders are now saying its going to happen -zero covid. Its not up to me or you. Its not a referendum.plenty of people listening. Views very polarised 50/50 but goes absoloutely no where. Sorry i set discussion up. Total swamp of a conversation.


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    #51
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hse has to make clinical decisions. I.e do not turn away covid patients who could die within days. Turn away cancer patients who could be dead within months. Not the fault of hse/hospitals. Do you think in austrailia cancer patients are turned away. Hospitals are doing the best they can in circumstances. Its government strategy that allows people unrestricted into our country that is wrong, not the healthcare workers who have taken a serious burden for too long.

    I actually dont understand the point you're trying to make now? Some surgeries might be postponed at the moment but that's due to a shortage of beds due to Covid being rampant in our community.


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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    I actually dont understand the point you're trying to make now? Some surgeries might be postponed at the moment but that's due to a shortage of beds due to Covid being rampant in our community.

    Strategy at the moment means plenty of people dieing of covid and people not getting the same level of care for other ailments that was there pre covid due to postponements and people afraid to go into hospitals. This is is not happening in austrailia. We have the worst of both worlds in our hospitals atm. People in ireland have to worry about covid and worry about getting sick with other ailments. If they get sick and go to hospital they may well pick up covid and conceivably die as they are weak in the first instance. What do you not understand?


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    #53
    ginoginelli
    Registered Users Posts: 1,332 ✭✭✭ginoginelli


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Not posting in this thread anymore. Its a swamp discussion that goes no where. Its going to happen but i couldnt be bothered discussing anymore.

    Dont sweat it man. You have made good points, but you have to remember your audience here. You're never going to get a rational and intelligent disussion with these lot.


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    #54
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,704 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Its a zone for all of uk/ireland. Free movement in the zone. Unionists dont have to agree to anything. Westminister says essential travel only and uk enforces it. Ireland does the same and piggy backs off their restrictions. Its basically the old term "british isles".

    OK fair enough, so you agree then that essentially a zero Covid idea just for Ireland can't work due to the border, and it has to be a zero Covid zone for both the UK and Ireland.

    So this would require a major change in thinking coming from the UK, very little we can actually do about it here if the will is not there from the UK as well.

    Again I can't see it happening unless the vaccine strategy completely fails, which we still don't know yet if that will happen.


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    #55
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    firemansam4 wrote: »
    OK fair enough, so you agree then that essentially a zero Covid idea just for Ireland can't work due to the border, and it has to be a zero Covid zone for both the UK and Ireland.

    So this would require a major change in thinking coming from the UK, very little we can actually do about it here if the will is not there from the UK as well.

    Again I can't see it happening unless the vaccine strategy completely fails, which we still don't know yet if that will happen.

    Thats the point we are tiny 1% of eu.

    I have accepted for many many months ireland was never going to go zero covid alone.

    UKs position is changing hence ours is too.

    Vaccine strategy is coming unstuck with variants. Claim SA variant can get around vaccines more easily 50 per cent efficacy as apposed to 90 per cent. Their fear is more variants in a few months time being even better at evading vaccines.

    Its finally dawned on UK and europe that this will not be over in a few months.

    We will beat this virus, but we have to take a longer term, more patient view. Over a number of years. That is what Asia is doing.

    Can see ryan air going bust in the mean time. Collateral damage unfortunately. Plenty other businesses affected very badly in last 12 months.


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    #56
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Strategy at the moment means plenty of people dieing of covid and people not getting the same level of care for other ailments that was there pre covid due to postponements and people afraid to go into hospitals. This is is not happening in austrailia. We have the worst of both worlds in our hospitals atm. People in ireland have to worry about covid and worry about getting sick with other ailments. If they get sick and go to hospital they may well pick up covid and conceivably die as they are weak in the first instance. What do you not understand?


    Yes, no covid is the ideal but how we achieve that is the difficulty, as has been outlined to you already


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    #57
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    PhoneMain wrote: »
    Yes, no covid is the ideal but how we achieve that is the difficulty, as has been outlined to you already

    Nobody said it was easy. Nothing about covid is easy. Plates are moving in europe and UK however. We will follow new european policy over next few years which essentially is no ryan air trips to algarve on a whim. Sounds better than cant go further than 5k from your house and hospitals busted with covid. You choose? Would to bad if we could move between ireland/Uk. Wherger people like to admit this or not with similar language and cultural we were always an econimic union/zone. I have 2 (1) major degree in economics. Our head of department who had a phd from UCD and taught by Garret Fitzgerald was always banging on about it. We provide labour and food to UK.


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    #58
    Red Silurian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,080 ✭✭✭Red Silurian


    To make an all Ireland COVID free area would involve the civil war parties talking to Sinn Fein in the NI executive which won't happen for political ideology reasons

    A COVID free CTA would mean talking to and making a deal with the Tories in Westminster which might result in nothing but at least ideologies don't get in the way


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    #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    colmtheperson wrote: »
    To make an all Ireland COVID free area would involve the civil war parties talking to Sinn Fein in the NI executive which won't happen for political ideology reasons

    A COVID free CTA would mean talking to and making a deal with the Tories in Westminster which might result in nothing but at least ideologies don't get in the way

    Its not all ireland. That would never work. Ireland goes zero covid. Uk goes zero covid. Done. There is not alot to agree. We can only go along with what UK are doing. If they go zero covid, we follow. Its that simple. We are beholden to UK whether we like it or not.


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    #60
    PhoneMain
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭PhoneMain


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Nobody said it was easy. Nothing about covid is easy. Plates are moving in europe and UK however. We will follow new european policy over next few years which essentially is no ryan air trips to algarve on a whim. Sounds better than cant go further than 5k from your house and hospitals busted with covid. You choose? Would to bad if we could move between ireland/Uk. Wherger people like to admit this or not with similar language and cultural we were always an econimic union/zone. I have 2 (1) major degree in economics. Our head of department who had a phd from UCD and taught by Garret Fitzgerald was always banging on about it. We provide labour and food to UK.

    But, and I'll say this again, if the unionists arent on board with it, what do we do?!!

    By the way I've an economics degree and I'm also a doctor


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    #61
    breadmonster
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭breadmonster


    I don't see why the border with the north is a problem if you try and cross it you get a week in a covid hotel unless you have a test result or a vaccination card, there going to be vaccinated way before us so wont have much to complain about. Apply the same for belmullet or any other blackspot town shouldn't be allowed leave the area till its gone.


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