Manchester United Teamtalk/Transfer Rumours/Gossip 2020/21- Mod Notes #1

Mantis Toboggan

Louis Friend wrote: »

How much of the Champions League trickles down to other clubs?

Gary Neville was ranting and raving about “the pyramid” but the six clubs are proposing to stay in the Premier League.

Don’t get me wrong, it’s cynical opportunism, but are UEFA the good guys?

People have been brainwashed into thinking Uefa and Fifa are the good guys.

malinheader

I have very mixed emotions this morning , I thought I would be very sad and enraged but really I am not that bothered.
The reason being the club I have supported most of my life ceased to exist a while back as did many of the great clubs around the football world.
In recent years going to OT was a massive disappointment, you would get more atmosphere at a cricket match. Corporate boxes,advertising, merchandise sales and sponsorship deals were all more important than the actual supporters in the end.
So in hindsight this morning I'm not really bothered, I just probably knew subconsciously that the old club I loved ceased to exist a while back.

S.M.B.

It's not 100% clear to me whether all this outrage is a result of the proposal itself or if it's more to do with all the uncertainty and "what ifs"?

Because the core proposal doesn't seem THAT outrageous to me.

Also, in terms of greed, I think fans are not guilt free when it comes to their part over the past 25 years.

Alf Veedersane

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

People have been brainwashed into thinking Uefa and Fifa are the good guys.

Hardly. Least worse, in this instance, perhaps.

Kerrydude1981

This Super League idea is like something from a FIFA and a Pro Evo game.

Drumpot

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

People have been brainwashed into thinking Uefa and Fifa are the good guys.

Nonsense, that’s a proper straw man argument.

Seeing how damaging this new league would be and calling it out is not endorsing UEFA or Fifa.

If you can defend the idea of it, go ahead, but knocking UEFA/FIFA doesn’t make this a good proposal. It’s a con, it’s an idea that has nothing to do with fans. I’m not sure I’ve read or heard many fans say they want this. Any fans out of the top 6 dont want it , that’s for sure , so the majority within football do not want it.

It’s a souless money grab move by people who’s only motive is making money. That alone should send alarm bells up the spine of anybody who isn’t sure about this. Old Trafford is prob finished and the club will end up a franchise or a permanently travelling one with no set home. If they get away with this, it doesn’t stop with just leaving the EPL, it opens the door to them changing everything about the game if money can be made.

GSPfan

If this goes ahead I can’t see the PL allowing those 6 teams to stay in the top division because it’ll be chaotic. They may get relegated to the Championship for next season as this plays out in courts.

The motivation to put out the strongest teams will be gone. If United are say 6th in the Premier league with 10 games left and cannot win the league then why would they prioritise PL games over SL games? They just won’t. The league will become a true secondary competition and due to the financial gulf between clubs United will be able to hoover up talent to form a world class 22 man squad and play a top class second string team on a Saturday while their first team players rest up for the clash with Barcelona on the Wednesday.

Those clubs have declared war on the establishment and it’s going to get nasty. Just wait until Klopp or someone like him says he can’t agree to manage a club involved with this. I truly believe him or someone like him at the highest level will draw the line. Fascinating to see who does it. I’m awaiting the players and managers associations to comment.

Dave0301

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I'd love to see it, imagine it, real football against the best teams week in week out. We're big enough to be in with the big boys if this gets the go ahead and we're good enough under Ole to mix it with any of them. To be honest fcuk the likes of West brom and Burnley we deserve to be in with the best teams.

Now I've been hearing about this breakaway for years and I've no doubt that it will never happen. Needs to be backed by a large TV company ie sky sports.

The same West Brom that we drew with earlier this season, or Burnley who we didn't beat at home since 2015 until yesterday? How about relegated Sheff Utd that beat United?

Why should the fans of those clubs miss out on big meaningful occasions like this?

I am not opposed to reforming competition to make it more competitive or prestigious, but setting up a closed shop to line the pockets of owners is not what I want from football.

Cookiemunster

GSPfan wrote: »

If this goes ahead I can’t see the PL allowing those 6 teams to stay in the top division because it’ll be chaotic. They may get relegated to the Championship for next season as this plays out in courts.

The motivation to put out the strongest teams will be gone. If United are say 6th in the Premier league with 10 games left and cannot win the league then why would they prioritise PL games over SL games? They just won’t. The league will become a true secondary competition and due to the financial gulf between clubs United will be able to hoover up talent to form a world class 22 man squad and play a top class second string team on a Saturday while their first team players rest up for the clash with Barcelona on the Wednesday.

Those clubs have declared war on the establishment and it’s going to get nasty. Just wait until Klopp or someone like him says he can’t agree to manage a club involved with this. I truly believe him or someone like him at the highest level will draw the line. Fascinating to see who does it. I’m awaiting the players and managers associations to comment.

The simple fact is that the other PL clubs need these six clubs to bring in the billions in TV revenue. Without them it disappears. The whole of the PL is built on a house of cards. If the money disappears, most if not all of the other 14 go bankrupt and take a lot of the Championship clubs with them. At the end of the day financial realities will take hold and the PL with do nothing to the six.

loyatemu

I assume this is all negotiation sabre-rattling from the 12 clubs and they're expecting UEFA/FIFA to fold. The threat to kick them out of the domestic leagues and ban their players could get tied up in the courts for years (the player ban sounds like it would fall foul of EU law).

Have to laugh at Arsenal, fresh from a hard-fought draw against Fulham to go 9th, setting themselves up as one of Europe's elite...

billyhead

Arsenal and Spurs in a SL. Lol

Mitch Connor

without thinking about the structures or how bad it might be for clubs not invloved in it.... it would be a disaster from the point of view of United fans, imo.

The Glazers already don't care about winning the league, only finishing top 4 to make the CL for the CL money.

What motivation will there be for them to allow funding of a truly competitive United side when we will be in the ESL regardless of performance within it or within the PL?

United don't care about winning, it only cares about money. When the money is taken care of without winning.....

Father Hernandez

https://twitter.com/samuelluckhurst/status/1384054646323355654?s=20

Ed fúcking Woodward of course at the top of this, another cretin.

This is all so surreal.

Sebastian Dangerfield

loyatemu wrote: »

The threat to kick them out of the domestic leagues and ban their players could get tied up in the courts for years (the player ban sounds like it would fall foul of EU law).

How would it differ from the IRFU not picking Simon Zebo for playing in France? They'd have to be careful how they word it, but I'd be fairly certain it's possible.

Drumpot

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The simple fact is that the other PL clubs need these six clubs to bring in the billions in TV revenue. Without them is disappears. The whole of the PL is built on a house of cards. If the money disappears, most if not all of the other 14 go bankrupt and take a lot of the Championship clubs with them. At the end of the day financial realities will take hold and the PL with do nothing to the six.

Look at what’s happened the FA cup since the champions league spots. That’s the way the EPL is heading now, it will happen over time, the EPL will be the secondary competition with top clubs resting players in between big euro games. That will eventually affect the tv rights for that competition.

I would rather win EPL today then the CL.

I can see this starting the breakup of all leagues with the top teams leaving for division 2 etc of these cash cow leagues. End of grassroots as we know it. How is that good for the sport?

loyatemu

What's being proposed is similar to the NFL - how long before they decide 3 clubs in one city (London) is too many and they decide to move some of them around for better geo-marketing purposes. Chelsea (Russian owned) could become Moscow Blues; Arsenal are owned by an American - NY Gunners anyone? The whole thing stinks.

Drumpot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

without thinking about the structures or how bad it might be for clubs not invloved in it.... it would be a disaster from the point of view of United fans, imo.

The Glazers already don't care about winning the league, only finishing top 4 to make the CL for the CL money.

What motivation will there be for them to allow funding of a truly competitive United side when we will be in the ESL regardless of performance within it or within the PL?

United don't care about winning, it only cares about money. When the money is taken care of without winning.....

I don’t think some fans have thought this through.

loyatemu

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

How would it differ from the IRFU not picking Simon Zebo for playing in France? They'd have to be careful how they word it, but I'd be fairly certain it's possible.

Scale. They'd be excluding virtually all of the world's top players. Zebo's not going to sue the IRFU as he plans to come back here (fairly soon apparently). I doubt Ronaldo would have any such qualms.

Also it's a different situation, the IRFU can say they want all their players in Ireland for training and so on. That's not that same as Wales saying they won't pick Bale because of who he works for when they'll happily pick any other Welshman regardless of where in the world his club is.

malinheader

Drumpot wrote: »

Look at what’s happened the FA cup since the champions league spots. That’s the way the EPL is heading now, it will happen over time, the EPL will be the secondary competition with top clubs resting players in between big euro games. That will eventually affect the tv rights for that competition.

I would rather win EPL today then the CL.

I can see this starting the breakup of all leagues with the top teams leaving for division 2 etc of these cash cow leagues. End of grassroots as we know it. How is that good for the sport?

The FA cup was always a bigger competition in our house than the European cup.
Money soon changed this when clubs who had great tradition in the competition brushed it to the side chasing the big money European spots.
I can see the fa cup heading the same way as the league cup.

fergiesfolly

As bad as it is for us and fans of the other Big 6, think what it must be like for the likes of the West Hams, Leicesters and Villas fans.
Bust your hole to get to have a chance at European football and play against Barca, Real or Bayern. And now it's gone. Top four will mean nothing. Clubs will stop investing to finish higher up the table and the league will die off. And so on to the Championship, League 1 etc.

fergiesfolly

As bad as it is for us and fans of the other Big 6, think what it must be like for the likes of the West Hams, Leicesters and Villas fans.
Bust your hole to get to have a chance at European football and play against Barca, Real or Bayern. And now it's gone. Top four will mean nothing. Clubs will stop investing to finish higher up the table and the league will die off. And so on to the Championship, League 1 etc.

billyhead

malinheader wrote: »

The FA cup was always a bigger competition in our house than the European cup.
Money soon changed this when clubs who had great tradition in the competition brushed it to the side chasing the big money European spots.
I can see the fa cup heading the same way as the league cup.

It already is. Shame really. I used to always love the passion and tradition of the FA cup with big upsets happening.

loyatemu

chance for Moyes and Lingard to lead West Ham to Champions League glory next year, whilst United are twiddling their thumbs having been knocked out of the Super League by January. It would be fairly funny.

The Super League format goes straight to the quarter-finals after the group stages, so they've managed to come up with a format that has even fewer meaningful matches than the bloated Champions League revamp UEFA had been planning to announce today.

Bob Harris

So as I understand it it this Super League gets going the Champions League will turn into the Europa League and Bayern Munich will will it every year.

Drumpot

loyatemu wrote: »

chance for Moyes and Lingard to lead West Ham to Champions League glory next year, whilst United are twiddling their thumbs having been knocked out of the Super League by January. It would be fairly funny.

It would be Hilarious if it back fired on the glazers. F*ck them, I f*cking hate them, always have but now more then ever.

I hope there is a massive backlash and they are hounded out of the club and football.

S.M.B.

Talk of degrading the significance of domestic competitions, only investing enough money to guarantee access to the bigger revenue streams and smaller clubs being side lined kind of show how we've been on this path for the best part of 25 years and this is just an attempt to add a few additional rules and restrictions.

Cookiemunster

loyatemu wrote: »

chance for Moyes and Lingard to lead West Ham to Champions League glory next year, whilst United are twiddling their thumbs having been knocked out of the Super League by January. It would be fairly funny.

The Super League format goes straight to the quarter-finals after the group stages, so they've managed to come up with a format that has even fewer meaningful matches than the bloated Champions League revamp UEFA had been planning to announce today.

€€€€€€€€€€


$$$$$$$$$$$


££££££££££


Take your pick from above. It's the raison d'etre of US sport. Winning is nice, but it's not really important.

y0ssar1an22

not sure how i feel about this - on the face of it, i dont like it - the closed shop nature of it for 15 teams. you shouldnt have a team in 10th in the league being guaranteed a spot in this competition.

i think you will have some clubs that want to win the competition and will spend to do so. you will also have other owners that are just happy to have their guaranteed spot and will siphon more money out of clubs. it immediately dilutes the integrity of the competition.

the 55% revenue cap will be interesting. what are the ramifications if you dont hold to that?

i'll still watch it though. looking forward to MNF

malinheader

Drumpot wrote: »

It would be Hilarious if it back fired on the glazers. F*ck them, I f*cking hate them, always have but now more then ever.

I hope there is a massive backlash and they are hounded out of the club and football.

What I have to say about the glaziers would get me banned for life from boards.

ArmaniJeanss

Sebastian Dangerfield wrote: »

How would it differ from the IRFU not picking Simon Zebo for playing in France? They'd have to be careful how they word it, but I'd be fairly certain it's possible.

That's kinda different - your comparison would only work if it was World Rugby telling Ireland that by rule they aren't allowed pick Zebo.

Now we might have a) Bailly & Mane want to play for their countries b) their countries who have nothing to do with the ESL want them to play, but c) a governing body potentially saying they aren't allowed play.

I'm not sure how it would pan out legally.

Cookiemunster

Drumpot wrote: »

It would be Hilarious if it back fired on the glazers. F*ck them, I f*cking hate them, always have but now more then ever.

I hope there is a massive backlash and they are hounded out of the club and football.

Very wishful thinking on your part there. Despite the soundbites about missing the fans, this last season and a half has shown that top level football is extremely viable without fans in the stadium. The money will continue to roll in from Asia and the Americas, even if the local fans revolt. However the initial takeover back in 2005 shows that they won't in large enough numbers to make a difference.

Mitch Connor

Drumpot wrote: »

It would be Hilarious if it back fired on the glazers. F*ck them, I f*cking hate them, always have but now more then ever.

I hope there is a massive backlash and they are hounded out of the club and football.

I wonder if they could look to be out the door before it happens.

As in once it is in place to happen, and the money is properly on the table, the value of the club will encompass the ESL, and they could potentially look to sell for billions.

This could have been the thing they were looking for to maximise the value of the club from a selling point of view.

kerplun k

If this does go ahead, and that’s a big if, I think a European league would introduce an internet based subscription service like the NFL pass. I think this is a much better option. €10pm for football fans would be hard to turn down. The cost to watch live football at the moment is an absolute rip. The chickens really are coming home roost.

loyatemu

kerplun k wrote: »

If this does go ahead, and that’s a big if, I think a European league would introduce an internet based subscription service like the NFL pass. I think this is a much better option. €10pm for football fans would be hard to turn down. The cost to watch live football at the moment is an absolute rip. The chickens really are coming home roost.

rumours yesterday were that DAZN had already obtained the rights.

y0ssar1an22

beakerjoe

Glazers dont need bums in seats fans any more. The global fans is what they want and the fans outside of Europe, wont give a monkies about the EFL or UCL.

These clubs have the power, and these owners want to guarentee their spots at the top to ensure money roles in despite the team under achieving.

Right now United, as a team, are lucky we are doing just enough to get Top 4..... The Glazers do just enough to get there. They dont care about how we win, once the money comes in. So its in their best interests to get Top 4.... now imagine there is no top 4, and United are automatically there each year..... **** all investment will be made in actually making the team win. Winning the new super league won't matter because the money comes in either way.

Ed has now left the ECA, as well as other head honchos of Juve and Barca. Its a sign this is very real. They wouldnt leave these positions of influence if they cared about UCL or United place in it.

United is gone. Its no longer United. Its just a jersey now. This is ruining football.

Hococop

"Sky have some neck to be criticizing this after they wanted to make Burnley v Newcastle a 20 quid PPV not so long ago Admittedly, they reversed the decision quickly"

My friend said this and he is right, I mean like me he and all my friends hate the idea of this super league

Honestly the best case scenario here is the teams are related or something happens that forces the glazers out I don't see it because the money behind this super league will be obscene and uefa/fifa likely can't compete financially

Hococop

Hococop wrote: »

"Sky have some neck to be criticizing this after they wanted to make Burnley v Newcastle a 20 quid PPV not so long ago Admittedly, they reversed the decision quickly"

My friend said this and he is right, I mean like me he and all my friends hate the idea of this super league

To be fair nobodys said uefa/fifa/sky or anyone else are anything but ****. Just that this super league is worse

Whatsisname

Straight out of the Boris Johnson playbook.

https://twitter.com/lauriewhitwell/status/1384058399973732359?s=20

Headshot

sigh

Absolutely sickening

Hococop

Kash Damaged Hedgehog wrote: »

To be fair nobodys said uefa/fifa/sky or anyone else are anything but ****. Just that this super league is worse

Oh we all agree he was just calling them out on the money side of the criticism

beakerjoe

The players should take astand or they can go **** themselves aswell.

We need players like KDB , Bruno, Pogba, Greiezmann, Sterling, Mane, Kane, Loris come out and take a stand against this. They need to show their true colours.

malinheader

So top four finish is pointless this year. Probably playing out the rest of the premiership is pointless.
Good for 3 of the teams who probably never had a chance of making the CL next year anyhow

Elwood_Blues

Sigh... I always did have a soft spot for Southampton

loyatemu

beakerjoe wrote: »

The players should take astand or they can go **** themselves aswell.

We need players like KDB , Bruno, Pogba, Greiezmann, Sterling, Mane, Kane, Loris come out and take a stand against this. They need to show their true colours.

Rashford is one who might speak out against it. Klopp too. But they're all under contract to their clubs at the end of the day.

Whatsisname

Jose sacked.

I wonder did he speak up about this Super League nonsense. Did feel like he was on the brink but they've the Carabao Final coming up, odd timing.

beakerjoe

loyatemu wrote: »

Rashford is one who might speak out against it. Klopp too. But they're all under contract to their clubs at the end of the day.

If you have some players/managers that come out against the plan, especially ones with big stature , what happens if they refuse to play in a Super League? At a minimum, I would imagine that large parts of player’s contracts will have to be renegotiated given that most have bonuses related to Premier League appearances, goals, position etc. These will be made worthless if the clubs are kicked out.

Im sure plenty of players wont care once their pockets are lined. I just hope some big players take a stand.

Mitch Connor

malinheader wrote: »

So top four finish is pointless this year. Probably playing out the rest of the premiership is pointless.
Good for 3 of the teams who probably never had a chance of making the CL next year anyhow

depends what happens over the next few weeks/months.

I can't see the ESL being in place next season, and I can't see any court issues being resolved by next season.

So it may come down to whether Uefa will ban the sides involved even before the ESL starts, and if the courts will allow Uefa to ban them prior to them leaving.

There is no way, imo, the ESL can get started soon. Even from a logistical point of view it is impossible, imo.

They only have 12 of the 20 sides they need. they still need 3 more 'founders'. (Ajax, PSG and Bayern the targets iirc) and they still need to work out who the other 5 will be and how they will qualify. They absolutely can't get those other 5 with the domestic leagues allowing it and, I would guess, Fifa or Uefa allowing it.

There is a long, long battle to go.

As I say though, the interesting bit will be if Uefa ban the 12 teams immediately, prior to the ESL actually getting going.

Could Uefa even look to ban them right now?

United and Arsenal banned from the EL, Roma and Villareal given byes to the final?
Chelsea, City, PSG and Real Madrid are the final four, PSG given the trophy by default?

beakerjoe

beakerjoe wrote: »

The players should take astand or they can go **** themselves aswell.

We need players like KDB , Bruno, Pogba, Greiezmann, Sterling, Mane, Kane, Loris come out and take a stand against this. They need to show their true colours.

Not a hope if you where one of the top.playera this is potentially earning you tens of millions extra over your career money talks.

The only hope for the is that the likes of boris and macron have mentioned bringing in legislation against it. Aside from that it's a done deal