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Internal Abuse in The Green Party

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    #272
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    beauf wrote: »
    I read that as internal abuse is a real problem in the green party. Which then wasn't mentioned in the op.

    So this thread is just a general rant about the green party no?

    Internal abuse is a symptom of the problems they are having as is a leadership challenge.

    *Any thread can be portrayed as a rant if you want the subject of it supressed. Go to some other thread please if this one doesn't interest you.


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    #273
    CrazyFather1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭CrazyFather1


    beauf wrote: »
    I read that as internal abuse is a real problem in the green party. Which then wasn't mentioned in the op.

    So this thread is just a general rant about the green party no?

    Yes the thread is a general rant about the Green Party, normally this would have been on the main thread FF/FG/Greens thread only someone was banned off that thread for a week.


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    #274
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    CrazyFather1 wrote: »
    Yes the thread is a general rant about the Green Party, normally this would have been on the main thread FF/FG/Greens thread only someone was banned off that thread for a week.

    Multiple threads on some parties Crazy. Crazy ain't it.

    If there is issue with the legitimacy of the thread please take it up with those who adjudicate on such things.


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    #275
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Internal abuse is a symptom of the problems they are having as is a leadership challenge.

    *Any thread can be portrayed as a rant if you want the subject of it supressed. Go to some other thread please if this one doesn't interest you.

    But you didn't discuss internal abuse. So it's a click bait title. If the replies aren't of interest to you, you can also go to to some other thread. It's a symptom of playing the man not the ball. As you just did.


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    #276
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    The political left no longer truly represents its traditional base, the working class, particularly younger generations, this can be clearly seen with the greens. many green party supporters and members are actually doing well in life, older middle class, many in relatively secure employment and have other critical securities such housing and accommodation, I.e. they have very little connection with the world of their traditional base, I suspect a brake away group could be on the horizon

    Why is the green party associated the working class. I would always have associated it with environmentalists and not the working class at all.


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    #277
    CrazyFather1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭CrazyFather1


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    The political left no longer truly represents its traditional base, the working class, particularly younger generations, this can be clearly seen with the greens. many green party supporters and members are actually doing well in life, older middle class, many in relatively secure employment and have other critical securities such housing and accommodation, I.e. they have very little connection with the world of their traditional base, I suspect a brake away group could be on the horizon

    The normal abuse thrown at the Green Party is they all live in leafy suburbs in Dublin and have no idea what happens outside Dublin.


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    #278
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    beauf wrote: »
    But you didn't discuss internal abuse. So it's a click bait title. If the replies aren't of interest to you, you can also go to to some other thread. It's a symptom of playing the man not the ball. As you just did.

    What is to discuss, other than it is symptom of internal divisions, not to bothered with the gory details, other than that.


    I asked do people think there are two parties in one here. One party that has no issues with CETA if they can stay in power and the other opposed to CETA and would sacrifice power to see it rejected for instance. The party seems divided on what their core positions should be, is it breaking up in front of us.

    Plenty to discuss there, why not let people express their opinions, jump in if you have anything to add.


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    #279
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What is to discuss, other than it is symptom of internal divisions, not to bothered with the gory details, other than that. ...

    Hard to find any specifics of internal abuse. It mostly seems to be online from social media. They seem to leaving over differences in policy, and inaction in govt. Seems like a false narrative.

    Green party has managed to shoot itself in both feet twice now. It's obviously driven from the top and they are unlikely to change that in a leadership battle. So people leave to go where... The only party quieter than the greens is SF. They should be banging on drums about the lifting of the lockdown and lack of locking down international travel. But nothing....


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    #280
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    beauf wrote: »
    Hard to find any specifics of internal abuse. It mostly seems to be online from social media. They seem to leaving over differences in policy, and inaction in govt. Seems like a false narrative.

    Green party has managed to shoot itself in both feet twice now. It's obviously driven from the top and they are unlikely to change that in a leadership battle. So people leave to go where... The only party quieter than the greens is SF. They should be banging on drums about the lifting of the lockdown and lack of locking down international travel. But nothing....

    What seems like a 'false narrative'? Are you denying what Lorna Bogue and other members have said about harassment and abuse? DO you need the specifics of that before you will accept it?

    Hard to know what you are saying? Can you be clearer?


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    #281
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    What seems like a 'false narrative'? Are you denying what Lorna Bogue and other members have said about harassment and abuse? DO you need the specifics of that before you will accept it?

    Hard to know what you are saying? Can you be clearer?

    Are you referring to the "anonymous harassment" hard to know to what you are referring to. What others. Could you be less vague.


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    #282
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    beauf wrote: »
    Are you referring to the "anonymous harassment" hard to know to what you are referring to. What others. Could you be less vague.

    Not sure what is going on with you. Are you up to speed on this at all. There have been consistent complaints of harassment etc from party members.


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40120574.html


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    #283
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    You mean this?
    Speaking to RTÉ News this weekend, Cllr Bogue reiterated that her decision to resign from the party early last week was specifically because of the mother-and-baby homes bill controversy.

    But she added it is also about a claimed disconnect between the party hierarchy and its grassroots which is not being fully acknowledged.

    "I've not been treated well by the party, I've not been listened to," she said. "I'm happy to compromise, I've spent six years in the party compromising so I'm well aware of the need to do it, but I don't think we're being listened to, we're being talked down to."


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    #284
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    and this...
    In early autumn, media reports surfaced of "toxic" WhatsApp rows between party members in group chats - with Dublin Lord Mayor and Green Party chairperson Hazel Chu having to interject at one stage to ask members not to celebrate any colleague leaving the party, something long-time members say they have never seen occur before among the Greens.

    The concern is further underlined by the fact the party's membership and complaints committee is currently looking into a small number of bullying allegations and "cold cases" from the recent past.

    It seems likely that in the absence of physical meetings, they have reverted to online discussions. As we see all the time people run out ideas and run to the personal insults instead.


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    #285
    CrazyFather1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭CrazyFather1


    beauf wrote: »
    You mean this?

    You made the mistake by using facts and not fiction. Based on these threads you should use fiction and lies, then get outraged about the lies.


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    #286
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    beauf wrote: »
    and this...



    It seems likely that in the absence of physical meetings, they have reverted to online discussions. As we see all the time people run out ideas and run to the personal insults instead.

    One would hope they are 'small' in number, having an effect all the same. 'Kavanagh specifically mentions harassment and abuse. And people are leaving the party.


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    #287
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Its ironic.
    Speaking to RTÉ's Drivetime, he said that it was a "culmination of a cultural shift within the party that has left me feeling isolated, I have basically run out of road".

    He said: "At the moment any question or criticism of Government decisions is portrayed quite wilfully as disloyalty rather than the well-meaning dissent it is supposed to be.

    "For example, I was quite critical, internally and publically, of the decision to partially reopen schools for Leaving Cert students with only three days' notice to rearrange the timetable and without consulting the teaching unions.

    "When I voiced this opinion, I was called out for spreading misinformation about the safety of schools and I feel that is not conducive to a collegiate atmosphere in a small party of Government."

    It interesting how this has become the same issue as this...
    ...anonymous phone calls abusing him and emails from “throwaway accounts” as well as anonymous online abuse...

    Seems like "willfully" connecting different issues for an agenda is exactly what people here are trying to do.


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    #288
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    beauf wrote: »
    Its ironic.



    It interesting how this has become the same issue as this...



    Seems like "willfully" connecting different issues for an agenda is exactly what people here are trying to do.

    So you think the Greens have no issues. Ok.


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    #289
    CrazyFather1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭CrazyFather1


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So you think the Greens have no issues. Ok.

    I didn't see the poster say that, me and others posted at the start saying the majority of parties have people come and go all the time. Do you not agree?


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    #290
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    CrazyFather1 wrote: »
    I didn't see the poster say that, me and others posted at the start saying the majority of parties have people come and go all the time. Do you not agree?

    Yes they do. And a spate of people leaving a party would always raise comment/discussion, wouldn't you also agree, especially when there has also been a leadership challenge mid term of government.


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    #291
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So you think the Greens have no issues. Ok.

    No one runs so constantly to a strawman unless they think their actual point can't be defended.


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    #292
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    beauf wrote: »
    No one runs so constantly to a strawman unless they think their actual point can't be defended.

    I honestly don't know what point you are trying to make, but handwave away evident issues within the Green party


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    #293
    CrazyFather1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭CrazyFather1


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Yes they do. And a spate of people leaving a party would always raise comment/discussion, wouldn't you also agree, especially when there has also been a leadership challenge mid term of government.

    As pointed out earlier in thread a load of people have left another party and didn't see the same comments from you. Showing some bias are we now?


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    #294
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    CrazyFather1 wrote: »
    As pointed out earlier in thread a load of people have left another party and didn't see the same comments from you. Showing some bias are we now?

    What? I fully discussed the issues in other parties and didn't try and shut down the discussion that clearly a lot of other posters have contributed to here. Reporting this constant interference here from you Crazy, if you aren't interested, scroll past.


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    #295
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Yes they do. And a spate of people leaving a party would always raise comment/discussion, wouldn't you also agree, especially when there has also been a leadership challenge mid term of government.

    There's a touch of the George Lee about all this.

    But I think most people would be on the side of the people leaving. No one seems to be disagreeing with them.


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    #296
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    beauf wrote: »
    There's a touch of the George Lee about all this.

    But I think most people would be on the side of the people leaving. No one seems to be disagreeing with them.

    So how do you see it going for the Greens...at 5% in the latest polls and more worryingly for them at 7% in the 18-34 percentile, trailing the SD by 3% and way way behind the 3 main parties. The percentile they are supposed to be saving the environment for.


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    #297
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    ... if you aren't interested, scroll past.

    Has saying that ever worked for anyone on boards ever.

    Maybe its intended as some from of reverse psychology.
    But that makes even less sense, than if its to be taken literally.


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    #298
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    So how do you see it going for the Greens...at 5% in the latest polls and more worryingly for them at 7% in the 18-34 percentile, trailing the SD by 3% and way way behind the 3 main parties. The percentile they are supposed to be saving the environment for.

    I've already said, they've made themselves irrelevant as a party.

    Anyone who votes for them in the next elections it would be on their performance on local issues. But if that politician has personally have been attached to some dumb stuff while in Govt, they won't be forgiven for that. So they may find their biggest hitters lose massive support. They'll have shed a lot of their other candidates by then. So there will no be no-one to make up the numbers.

    Those that are leaving will do best staying independent, vocal on populist issues. That is exactly what they are doing, disassociating themselves from the current Govt and its policies and mistakes.


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    #299
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    biko wrote: »
    Either way Ireland wins.
    Fake Scores wrote: »
    I hope these councilors are being disposed of properly.

    This was summed up nicely in the first few posts.


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    #300
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    beauf wrote: »
    You mean this?
    beauf wrote: »
    and this...



    It seems likely that in the absence of physical meetings, they have reverted to online discussions. As we see all the time people run out ideas and run to the personal insults instead.

    That all reads like pretty much small-scale stuff. Not like heavies coming around knocking on doors or the like.

    One wonders why this was deserving of a thread at all.


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    #301
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,167 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    That all reads like pretty much small-scale stuff. Not like heavies coming around knocking on doors or the like.

    One wonders why this was deserving of a thread at all.

    Over 300 posts. More to come, no doubt.


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