Internal Abuse in The Green Party

beauf · 31-01-2021 8:54pm

Not that they aren't serious issues that are under investigation.

But deliberately conflating issues some of which that happened years ago with current issues and people leaving over policy differences is questionable.

BettyS · 31-01-2021 8:55pm

I cannot see why they cannot champion the remote working, specifically facilitating better internet connection, workspaces, etc. Also, public transport is dire in this country. They need to incentivise green policy. Work on an allowance for people working from home, free public transport at peak hours, etc. More people will likely come along on the Green journey if they push these aspects

beauf · 31-01-2021 8:56pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Over 300 posts. More to come, no doubt.

..and bingo we have the objective...

beauf · 31-01-2021 8:58pm

BettyS wrote: »

I cannot see why they cannot champion the remote working, specifically facilitating better internet connection, workspaces, etc. Also, public transport is dire in this country. They need to incentivise green policy. Work on an allowance for people working from home, free public transport at peak hours, etc. More people will likely come along on the Green journey if they push these aspects

They seem to have lost focus in govt.

FrancieBrady · 31-01-2021 8:59pm

beauf wrote: »

Not that they aren't serious issues that are under investigation.

But deliberately conflating issues some of which that happened years ago with current issues and people leaving over policy differences is questionable.

Look take it up with those writing the articles and eliciting comments like this from Green members:

Aengus Ó Corráin, who was Ms Bogue's campaign manager in 2016, told Newstalk there were two key reasons for the string of resignations.

He said: "First, I think because there's been a failure of competence, in particular in regard to the communication from the parliamentary party and the Ministers since we've entered Government and I think that's contributed to massive misunderstandings of our first few policy initiatives.

"Second, I think it's happening because the grassroots and the Councillors below the TDs feel they are being ignored and criticisms they have of how the party does business at the highest level is not being listened to.

beauf · 31-01-2021 9:04pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look take it up with those writing the articles and eliciting comments like this from Green members:

None of that references internal abuse ...

a very cool kid · 31-01-2021 9:04pm

The Green rebellion smacks of nothing more than some uppity councillors bitter they didn't get into the Dáil off the back of the "Green Wave".

Kavanagh certainly seems to be a wannabe career politican looking for a safe Dáil seat and cushy protest career.

beauf · 31-01-2021 9:10pm

In fairness the lack of green policies is valid. Much of the rest is normal politics. Infighting and squabbles.

Much of the recent harassment that's been mentioned is external and social media. I'm sure they could investigate and find it's probably a handful of people.

FrancieBrady · 31-01-2021 9:11pm

beauf wrote: »

None of that references internal abuse ...

Other comments do. WTF?

Look, I am not dragging the thread down any more than it has defending it's existence. I quoted a source and there are others for the internal abuse and harassment allegations.

If you have an issue with the legitimacy of the thread take it to the mods.

beauf · 31-01-2021 9:53pm

I guess its been a slow year politically, and people are getting C19 jaded. What the tabloid's need is some non specific outrage unburdened with too many facts.

Might of a gone a bit early with this one though. Might be a while to the next election.

CrazyFather1 · 31-01-2021 10:00pm

beauf wrote: »

I guess its been a slow year politically, and people are getting C19 jaded. What the tabloid's need is some non specific outrage unburdened with too many facts.

Might of a gone a bit early with this one though. Might be a while to the next election.

The news is slow, f**k all happening and nearly no sport to watch. Stories that wouldn't even have been in the press 12 months ago are now frontline news. The most mundane dribble.
Everyone is so tightly wound they are outraged by everything. People really need to learn how to turn it all off and go for a walk.
You literally have a thread of outrage on this forum about something that might never happen. Yeah when pointed out to people they get more outraged because you are not outraged to start with. Vicious circle at the moment. A lot of anger out there.

FrancieBrady · 31-01-2021 10:05pm

beauf wrote: »

I guess its been a slow year politically, and people are getting C19 jaded. What the tabloid's need is some non specific outrage unburdened with too many facts.

Might of a gone a bit early with this one though. Might be a while to the next election.

Allegations of abuse and harassment, councillors and members leaving, public spats over going into government, a leadership challenge and polling very badly in a target demographic of a governing party is news, global pandemic or not.

a very cool kid · 31-01-2021 10:09pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Allegations of abuse and harassment, councillors and members leaving, public spats over going into government, a leadership challenge and polling very badly in a target demographic of a governing party is news, global pandemic or not.

Nah there's no culture of bullying in the Greens to be honest. There's a cynical councillor thinks he has a shot at a Dáil seat that got beaten to the punch in the resignation stakes. Needed a different excuse.

beauf · 31-01-2021 10:40pm

All this "drama" can't even keep Eamon awake.

CrazyFather1 · 31-01-2021 10:59pm

BettyS wrote: »

I cannot see why they cannot champion the remote working, specifically facilitating better internet connection, workspaces, etc. Also, public transport is dire in this country. They need to incentivise green policy. Work on an allowance for people working from home, free public transport at peak hours, etc. More people will likely come along on the Green journey if they push these aspects

The government has come out in support of remote working, the Greens are in government so I would expect they are part of this decision
https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/32321-tanaiste-publishes-remote-working-strategy/

markodaly · 31-01-2021 11:31pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you saying that because you answered the thread that it should be closed?

Closed? No, those are ghosts in your head Francie, that you are always clutching.

This is an interesting article that covers much of what the Greens are about.
The pragmatists V the idealists.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/9/14543938/donald-trump-richard-rorty-election-liberalism-conservatives

“I propose to use the term reformist Left,” Rorty wrote, “to cover all those Americans who, between 1900 and 1964, struggled within the framework of constitutional democracy to protect the weak from the strong.” The emphasis on constitutional democracy is paramount here. Reformists believed in the system, and wanted to improve it from within.

markodaly · 31-01-2021 11:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are they going into government and shelving harmless policy positions

How much resources will be wasted this year persueing people for cannabis?

As I said, if its in the PFG it will get done, if its not, then it wont.
Ask the Greens why it was dropped in the negotations.

markodaly · 31-01-2021 11:38pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Labour insisted on it after years of campaigning and opposition action.

The Labour Party formed a policy point on Same-Sex Marriage.
They entered government to achieve and enact that policy.

Amazing, it's true, but yes that is what happened!!
Imagine that, government parties getting things done. Who would have thought it!!

:D

31-01-2021 11:39pm

a very cool kid wrote: »

Nah there's no culture of bullying in the Greens to be honest. There's a cynical councillor thinks he has a shot at a Dáil seat that got beaten to the punch in the resignation stakes. Needed a different excuse.

They were to have an independant review into accusations,id imagine the results of this are due to be released soon......or will the leadership cover it up

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40120574.html%3ftype=amp

Chairperson of 2 green latch on groups resigned over bullying

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/chairpersons-of-two-green-party-affiliate-groups-resign-claiming-they-have-been-ignored-bullied-and-harassed-39663244.html

A cork based ex green, councillor has tweeted complaining if leadership down playing bullying

https://mobile.twitter.com/LornaBogue/status/1355650657345277958

The lad who resigned this week,claimed it was as a result of abusive emails/mesages telling him not to critise the leadership

Eamon ryan last july admitted its party structures couldnt handle the amount of complaints of bullying it was getting

https://www.google.com/amp/s/headtopics.com/ie/green-party-swamped-with-bullying-complaints-from-members-14343826

A quick google,would suggest there is a significant rot and culture of bullying after setting in,within that party??

I wouldnt dismiss.this lads complaint out of hand

banie01 · 31-01-2021 11:44pm

markodaly wrote: »

As I said, if its in the PFG it will get done, if its not, then it wont.
Ask the Greens why it was dropped in the negotations.

The PFG states that any projects already approved will proceed as normal.
Yet Eamon Ryan has held off on signing off on the tender for a road in Limerick that was highlighted 14years ago in the Fitzgerald as vital to the integration of Moyross into the broader Limerick city area.
A road that has already had major engineering and groundworks completed and @20mln spent.

1 of the local green councillors has put her social media on private, another has lied about the position of walls and blocked pedestrian access to LIT.

And the local green TD is engaging (or rather not) in ignoring constituents and a game of radio silence.

The road in question is a link that the Fitzgerald report called for, it's a link that the largest housing estate in the country outside of Dublin is in desperate need of.
It's continuing hiatus, only exacerbates the social isolation, exclusion and lack of social equity afforded a large portion of Limerick.

The idealogy here is contributing to continuing deprivation amongst those most at need.

FrancieBrady · 31-01-2021 11:55pm

markodaly wrote: »

The Labour Party formed a policy point on Same-Sex Marriage.
They entered government to achieve and enact that policy.

Amazing, it's true, but yes that is what happened!!
Imagine that, government parties getting things done. Who would have thought it!! :D

And why did Labour do that mark? Because they were a part of the opposition previously campaigning for it.

markodaly · 01-02-2021 12:12am

Deleted User wrote: »

the programme for government is not the green party policies

Yous want a discussion on green policies,but straight away slink behind the programme for government to shut down.any discussion then....

This is not hard.
So, let us try again.

The Greens set out their stall before the last election.
They entered the government to try and agree on a PFG, which they did.

Green Party Policies != PFG

Just because the Greens may have been for something say 12 months ago, does not mean that now they are in government it automatically gets done.
If you want that, then you need the Greens to get in as a majority, something no Irish party has done since 1977.

In the PFG, we have this.

Examine the regulations and legislation that apply to
cannabis use for medical conditions and palliative care,
having regard to the experience in Northern Ireland and
Great Britain.

So, it seems they want to try and enact Medical Cannabis legislation, a first step in the longe process of legalising cannabis.

Also, it has to be noted. Sinn Fein does NOT support the blanket decriminalisation of Cannabis.

Lolz,a virtue signaling lib,through and through,with no depth to your pretend complaint of people not discussing policy....how was it,you described others on this msg board......as deep as fake tan

Is it true the greens voted againest abortion in stormont??

I don't even know what this means, or what you are trying to communicate.
But, the PFG is here.
https://assets.gov.ie/94092/50f892b9-a93e-43fc-81d1-778ff9954d9f.pdf

markodaly · 01-02-2021 12:15am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And why did Labour do that mark? Because they were a part of the opposition previously campaigning for it.

No, they did it because they were in government.

Being on the opposition benches means you can jump up and down about any ol issue, but at the end of the day, to enact change, you need to be in government.

beauf · 01-02-2021 12:22am

Deleted User wrote: »

They were to have an independant review into accusations,id imagine the results of this are due to be released soon......or will the leadership cover it up

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40120574.html%3ftype=amp

Chairperson of 2 green latch on groups resigned over bullying

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/chairpersons-of-two-green-party-affiliate-groups-resign-claiming-they-have-been-ignored-bullied-and-harassed-39663244.html

A cork based ex green, councillor has tweeted complaining if leadership down playing bullying

https://mobile.twitter.com/LornaBogue/status/1355650657345277958

The lad who resigned this week,claimed it was as a result of abusive emails/mesages telling him not to critise the leadership

Eamon ryan last july admitted its party structures couldnt handle the amount of complaints of bullying it was getting

https://www.google.com/amp/s/headtopics.com/ie/green-party-swamped-with-bullying-complaints-from-members-14343826

A quick google,would suggest there is a significant rot and culture of bullying after setting in,within that party??

I wouldnt dismiss.this lads complaint out of hand

Not dismissing it. Just pointing out that is not quite as being portrayed.

If you actually follow all of these to their sources. Its seems to be the same general pattern. People speaking out against party policy, then going public with the spat, which is against their own procedures. Trial by media etc. Then there is backlash on social media, emails etc., because they've done this. They engage with this. This all seems to be anonymous (apparently), which turns nasty, from people claiming to by members. Probably are, might not be either. Who knows.

I don't agree with these policies either. Resigning is the right thing to so if you realise you are swimming uphill. But I'm looking for the smoking gun in all this and I can't see it. It would be very machiavellian if this was a culture orchestrated by the party, to drive them out. I can't see a party thats so inept having the guile to do this.

beauf · 01-02-2021 12:23am

markodaly wrote: »

No, they did it because they were in government.

Being on the opposition benches means you can jump up and down about any ol issue, but at the end of the day, to enact change, you need to be in government.

You also need to have influence while in Govt, not constantly roll over.

markodaly · 01-02-2021 12:35am

beauf wrote: »

You also need to have influence while in Govt, not constantly roll over.

In government, if you are 12 TD's out of 80 odd, you need to pick your battles.

FrancieBrady · 01-02-2021 12:37am

markodaly wrote: »

No, they did it because they were in government.

Being on the opposition benches means you can jump up and down about any ol issue, but at the end of the day, to enact change, you need to be in government.

And pressure for change mark. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise. I would have more respect if you were not do protective just because your party is in government. Everyone plays their part in our system. The 'jump up and down' childishness is a trope.

markodaly · 01-02-2021 12:39am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And pressure for change mark. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise. I would have more respect if you were not do protective just because your party is in government. Everyone plays their part in our system. The 'jump up and down' childishness is a trope.

Where does it say in the Constitution that the opposition parties also run the country?

beauf · 01-02-2021 12:49am

markodaly wrote: »

In government, if you are 12 TD's out of 80 odd, you need to pick your battles.

That's not working out so well... again...

FrancieBrady · 01-02-2021 1:13am

markodaly wrote: »

Where does it say in the Constitution that the opposition parties also run the country?

Mark, oppositions will be around long after you and I are not...best get used to them. Your own party was happy to be an opposition party.

Internal Abuse in The Green Party

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