Internal Abuse in The Green Party

FrancieBrady

Larbre34 wrote: »

As you're not a mod, I presume you'll be left wondering.

On the substantive issue, the Greens are a shambles and its a close run thing between Eamon Ryan and Alan Kelly for who is the worst party leader in Ireland.

I must say its a relief that their destructive influence on the Country will be gradually lessened as a result of the failing cohesion. At the same time, they can't afford to leave the Government as they would be savaged in an early election.

I agree fully with the theory that they were the Party of 'none of the above' last February. The problem for them now is, a more stark choice has been made clear to voters in the last 11 months. If you don't want Fine Gael, swallow your pride and vote Sinn Féin, and vice versa. Theres less room for moderate ideologies in these new battle lines.

Kelly has to be knocking spots of Ryan as a leader since the new government came in.
Kelly has been a revelation tbh, playing a good opposition role.

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kelly has to be knocking spots of Ryan as a leader since the new government came in.
Kelly has been a revelation tbh, playing a good opposition role.

RTE still trying to convince people that Labour is a major party? Being a small fringe party has given Kelly a bit of latitude to be against everything but he'd give it up in a second to be in government.

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

jmcc wrote: »

RTE still trying to convince people that Labour is a major party? Being a small fringe party has given Kelly a bit of latitude to be against everything but he'd give it up in a second to be in government.

Regards...jmcc

Yes, that would be the suspicion, Labour did the same as the Greens when they got the comfy seats.

Larbre34

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kelly has to be knocking spots of Ryan as a leader since the new government came in.
Kelly has been a revelation tbh, playing a good opposition role.

He hasn't. He follows the crowd, or twitter. And when he isn't, he's coming up with utterly hairbrained policies out of thin air, like reopening jus soli. Worst Labour leader in my lifetime, doesn't have the smarts to be head of a party.

jmcc

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, that would be the suspicion, Labour did the same as the Greens when they got the comfy seats.

What differentiates the Labour from the Greens is that the Greens have an ideology. That makes them far more ruthless as a party than Labour.

Regards...jmcc

FrancieBrady

Larbre34 wrote: »

He hasn't. He follows the crowd, or twitter. And when he isn't, he's coming up with utterly hairbrained policies out of thin air, like reopening jus soli. Worst Labour leader in my lifetime, doesn't have the smarts to be head of a party.

I don't think you got the point. Kelly is doing better as a leader than Ryan, which isn't saying much at all. I personally have no time for either of them.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't think you got the point. Kelly is doing better as a leader than Ryan, which isn't saying much at all. I personally have no time for either of them.

It really depends on how you judge party leaders.

The Green Party are seeing many of their policies enacted in government, Labour are not. Is that not a measure of success?

Annasopra

doublejobbing 2 wrote: »

Always nice when nasty, intolerant left wing types have a cry when they find themselves being harassed and abused by other hate filled, nasty, left wing types.

https://twitter.com/TheKavOfficial?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

A quick scan of his Twitter:

- he blames "the man" for high rates of Covid among travellers

-he thinks we give a shiet about his preferred gender pronouns

- talks a good game on homelessness, presumably also wants asylum seekers treated as a housing priority as per Green Party manifesto. Can't have one and have the other boyo.

- had a moan about Hazel Chu copping flak for her anti Gardai nonsense


Like virtually all modern leftists, likely a truly unpleasant individual who doesn't like it when he gets back what his friends give out.

-

That says more about you than anyone else that you are cheering on abuse and harassment.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It really depends on how you judge party leaders.

The Green Party are seeing many of their policies enacted in government, Labour are not. Is that not a measure of success?

The scapegoats in any coalition usually get one or two of their policies enacted. Not sure what that has to do with perceptions of a leaders worth.

suicide_circus

*scolds*
*wags finger*

biko

Doublejobbing watching the Greens in difficulty

doublejobbing 2

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

That says more about you than anyone else that you are cheering on abuse and harassment.

LOL.

Joey, I'm going to hazard a guess here.

You approved of the thousands of people who marched in the streets demanding Paddy Jackson effectively be exiled from the country and the national team after he was acquitted at trial by a jury of his peers.

Harassment and abuse is a one way street with you people.

I have no time at all for the Ben Gilroy types who went to Mansion House, but Chu is a nasty piece of work who can dole it out but can't take it back. Like pretty much everybody on that side of the fence (Gilroy is a shietbag himself, same as G'OD, Waters et al, but he doesn't go crying to the media about the fact most people don't like him)

mynamejeff

has any body pointed out the irony of all the shinnerbots starting and posting about people leaving another party because or inappropriate behaviour in the party ?


http://trinitynews.ie/2020/12/why-i-decided-to-resign-from-sinn-fein/

jmcc

suicide_circus wrote: »

*scolds*
*wags finger*

Is that you Greta? Thought you'd flown to Davos.

Regards...jmcc

cnocbui

FrancieBrady wrote: »

4th resignation of a councillor. This is becoming a real issue in the Green Party. Is accepting a role in government going to destroy the whole party? Is it effectively two parties now, the Eamonn Ryan one and the Catherine Martin one?

https://www.newstalk.com/news/fourth-green-party-councillor-resigns-over-culture-within-party-1140398?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1611588386

I sincerely hope so!

Danzy

mynamejeff wrote: »

has any body pointed out the irony of all the shinnerbots starting and posting about people leaving another party because or inappropriate behaviour in the party ?


http://trinitynews.ie/2020/12/why-i-decided-to-resign-from-sinn-fein/

Many of these people will join SF, the Social Dems, a small few might even go Labour.

They'll cause the same ructions and fall out with others there as well.

It's the mindset that is the problem.

mynamejeff

Danzy wrote: »

Many of these people will join SF, the Social Dems, a small few might even go Labour.

They'll cause the same ructions and fall out with others there as well.

It's the mindset that is the problem.

where will the 13 or so who bailed on the shinners go I wonder ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-féin-loses-13-public-representatives-over-bullying-claims-1.3381372

sorry 23 not 13

"The party said 23 representatives have either vacated their seats or left Sinn Féin in recent months. Ten, it says, left for personal reasons, while five were expelled and eight resigned."

tayto lover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Kelly has to be knocking spots of Ryan as a leader since the new government came in.
Kelly has been a revelation tbh, playing a good opposition role.

I would never vote for Kelly.
He was very loud in the water issue, as bad as Big Phil.
He is so populist it’s scary.
Can’t stand him.

Danzy

mynamejeff wrote: »

where will the 13 or so who bailed on the shinners go I wonder ?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-féin-loses-13-public-representatives-over-bullying-claims-1.3381372

sorry 23 not 13

"The party said 23 representatives have either vacated their seats or left Sinn Féin in recent months. Ten, it says, left for personal reasons, while five were expelled and eight resigned."

This could all the rolled in to a giant thread on why Left wing politics and parties split so often, why there is such righteous anger and falling out, often over tiny differences. Why there is a special anger towards one's party colleagues and increasingly the voter base, as so ably shown by Labour in England.

Replicated again and again across the western world. Probably beyond that as well.

Is it something like 20 left political movements in Ireland now. It's nuts.

Larbre34

tayto lover wrote: »

I would never vote for Kelly.
He was very loud in the water issue, as bad as Big Phil.
He is so populist it’s scary.
Can’t stand him.

Populist about stuff that either a) he thinks is popular to a centre left rump or b) some party wonk convinced him will capture the imagination of a centre left rump.

The upshot is a Party and a leader utterly and woefully out of touch. The reason that makes Kelly and Labour worse than Ryan and the Greens is, as has already been said, the Greens have their finger prints all over a programme for Government and their manifesto issues are being resourced.

Labour is just a rudderless mess.

Mad_maxx

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I said it before, I think they are superflous really, on the environmental issues. All parties, because of the world wide concern, now have environmental concerns and policy. And governments are signed up to making the changes through the EU and Agreements etc.

Disagree , both FG and FF will drag the arse out of reform as it means tackling agriculture

not saying agriculture is the only contributor but its the most opposed to change

FrancieBrady

Danzy wrote: »

This could all the rolled in to a giant thread on why Left wing politics and parties split so often, why there is such righteous anger and falling out, often over tiny differences. Why there is a special anger towards one's party colleagues and increasingly the voter base, as so ably shown by Labour in England.

Replicated again and again across the western world. Probably beyond that as well.

Is it something like 20 left political movements in Ireland now. It's nuts.

Probably because the Left/Right thing is redundant really. It will sort itself out in time like at the creation of the state...how many splits were there then?

From a voter perspective I would never define myself as right or left. I am right on some issues, left on others.

Mad_maxx

timmyntc wrote: »

The Eamon Ryan wing of the greens (not an endorsement*) will get some stuff done, its clear he is a pragmatist if not slightly inept.

The other faction of the greens are barely distinguishable from PBP/AAA.
PBP but wearing green. As they force out the pragmatists and gradually take over the party, expect the greens to poll about the same as PBP et al.

hard to know , the media love PBP as they have always received a vastly disproportionate amount of media exposure relative to their electoral strength , the militant WOKE wing of the Greens are more palatable than PBP to the likes of RTE as they are much more middle class , a sort of Soc Dems 2 with a green additive and the media absolutely adore the Soc Dems

FrancieBrady

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Disagree , both FG and FF will drag the arse out of reform as it means tackling agriculture

not saying agriculture is the only contributor but its the most opposed to change

Yes, but changes in our argricultural practices will have little effect on climate change until huge changes happen in the world in general. That is the problem, and the Greens idea of making us all pay more right now instead of a slower pace of change is one of their issues.
We need to change, but it need not cause massive disruption and cost.

Mad_maxx

jmcc wrote: »

RTE still trying to convince people that Labour is a major party? Being a small fringe party has given Kelly a bit of latitude to be against everything but he'd give it up in a second to be in government.

Regards...jmcc

RTE dont like Kelly , they wanted Aiodain o Riordain as leader

doublejobbing 2

mynamejeff wrote: »

has any body pointed out the irony of all the shinnerbots starting and posting about people leaving another party because or inappropriate behaviour in the party ?


http://trinitynews.ie/2020/12/why-i-decided-to-resign-from-sinn-fein/

This O'Mahony wagon posted "ACAB" on Twitter the day of the George Nkencho threat neutralisation.

A few days later she had a post up announcing that her dad was taking her to Navan (or was it Ashbourne) Garda station so she could report abusive Twitter messages she had received.

Again, show me someone on the left who isn't a deeply unpleasant individual.

Annasopra

Mad_maxx wrote: »

RTE dont like Kelly , they wanted Aiodain o Riordain as leader

The amount of coverage they give Kelly it appears to me they love him

jmcc

tayto lover wrote: »

He is so populist it’s scary.

Given Labour's standing in the opinion polls, he's not very good at being populist. Some of those "issues" like the jus soli one is the product of the unelectable, Nice But Dim commentariat that seems to infest the Dublin media bubble. The electorate ignores these clowns but much of Labour's electoral problems are due to taking the clueless commentariat seriously. I suppose that Kelly's Dad Dancing on these issues is an attempt to keep Labour somewhat relevant outside the bowels of RTE.

The Greens got a major electoral boost from the way that the media focused on Greta Thunberg and, to a lesser extent, Climate Change. Without the grimacing Greta being in the news, the Greens may be judged, in the next general election, on how they did with the Covid Pandemic.

Regards...jmcc

jmcc

Mad_maxx wrote: »

RTE dont like Kelly , they wanted Aiodain o Riordain as leader

RTE loves Labour. Even Kelly. O'Riordan would have been going full SJW and that might have been fine for RTE but in the real world, it doesn't get votes. Eamon Ryan was always on RTE programmes eventhough the Greens, at the time, had no TDs.

Regards...jmcc

Mad_maxx

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The amount of coverage they give Kelly it appears to me they love him

if a dog with rabies was leader of Labour , RTE would give it tonnes of coverage