What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

robinph

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

12 is a larger number than 10 and hence better from EU point of view

... And as long as the UK is doing as badly as the EU that is all that matters.

Or would you then be upset that the UK would still have more of their population vaccinated than the EU and want to see the numbers reduced even more for the UK supply?

brickster69

Deleted User wrote: »

Remind me how much earlier AZ sought approval in the UK while still not submitting for approval in the EU?

No idea but it was granted a month earlier than the EMA.

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2020/astrazenecas-covid-19-vaccine-authorised-in-uk.html#:~:text=AstraZeneca's%20COVID%2D19%20vaccine%20has,early%20in%20the%20New%20Year.

correct horse battery staple

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

It would have shown issues AZ are having are genuine, also if they raised their hand earlier about issues like sanofi did it would have meant other supplies could have been acquired potentially or maybe help offered

Instead AZ strung everyone along

As for uk they burned any goodwill by tying this ****ty vaccine to Brexit and adding political nonsense and gas lighting everyone via their tabloids.

Supplies from where?

brickster69

Most of Holland's AZ will go unused

https://twitter.com/MailOnline/status/1386694074283999239

fly_agaric

robinph wrote: »

So the UK ordered 100m and they have currently had 25m.
The EU ordered 300m and have had 70m.

Not sure exactly where the unfairness in distribution is there? Looks to be the same rate of delivery each.

The EU has not received 70m AZ vaccine doses.
It received just under 30m in Q1.
It is presumbably somewhat more than that now, but it is nowhere near 70m.
It might be 100m by end of June if the reduced target is met, but it's a very big if.

Even by your 25m figure, the UK has done quite well under the circumstances.
The UK is supposed to get 100m doses supplied by end of the year and are roughly on track for that, maybe slightly behind (vs the catastophic underdelivery on the EU order).

brickster69

Holland sent 1.2 mln AZ to Mexico

https://twitter.com/GobiernoMX/status/1385247020135354368

Wolf359f

brickster69 wrote: »

AZ delivery schedule. 14 times " best reasonable efforts ". Estimated delivery based on approval which was 29/1/2021. Again " earliest possible " = best case scenario

https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1362780886379483137

The term "reserved manufacturing and production schedule" could be argued that capacity that was reserved for the EU order was used to fulfill others.
Sure it's with the lawyer's now.

correct horse battery staple

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Money and energy could have been thrown at other manufacturers and vaccines as EU had to do recently, except we were strung along for months by lies

That’s malicious

such as?

maybe if they shouted a bit louder and stamped their foot harder, it might have made vaccines miraculously appear.

deeperlearning

According to the NOS, the Dutch national broadcaster:


"The Netherlands has ordered about 11.7 million doses of AstraZeneca, more than the other vaccines. But the vast majority of them - some 10 million doses - are not expected to be delivered until the third and fourth quarters of this year.

By then, the Health Ministry believes it will have received millions of doses of the other vaccines as well."



https://nos.nl/artikel/2378022-einde-voor-astrazeneca-in-nederland-in-zicht-verwacht-rivm.html

deeperlearning

It takes a particular type of fool to read and believe everything written in The Daily Mail.

correct horse battery staple

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Such as Pfizer and moderna and curevac

Hell maybe even Sputnik, 300 million would have gone along way with anyone more competent, money aside there’s this thing called opportunity cost

Instead they took money, sold a bunch of lies and continued to lie and under deliver

We got scammed plain and simple

Moderna were never in a position to produce enough vaccines no matter how much was thrown at them and I am sure Pfizer would be more than happy to sell more, they just don't have the capacity.

These are new products, companies are starting from scratch. They also have other products to produce as people are still getting sick and needing treatment or getting born and needing the dozen or so vaccines they get in the first year of their life.

There is no silver bullet here.

robinph

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

It would have shown issues AZ are having are genuine, also if they raised their hand earlier about issues like sanofi did it would have meant other supplies could have been acquired potentially or maybe help offered

Instead AZ strung everyone along

As for uk they burned any goodwill by tying this ****ty vaccine to Brexit and adding political nonsense and gas lighting everyone via their tabloids.

And there it is. You were doing so well with avoiding the topic.

Bit cynical

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Just like Brexit it turned to **** as for UK this crap allowed them to cover up and distract from at least 70000 needless deaths, yet you still have apologists posting here for these Tory cretins

In fairness leaving the EU meant that the UK weren't under pressure to join the EU's procurement scheme and could go their own way in handling vaccines.

correct horse battery staple

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

We don’t know that, if AZ said 6 months ago we will only deliver 10-25% of what’s agreed, then that would have given EU time to see what else is available

They didn’t, they took the money and lied time and time again

Just like Brexit it turned to **** as for UK this crap allowed them to cover up and distract from at least 70000 needless deaths, yet you still have apologists posting here for these Tory cretins

your bitterness at the success of the UK's vaccine programme is well noted by this stage, no need to keep regurgitating the same old ****e.

Tyrone212

RTE

AstraZeneca has so far delivered just 31 million of the 120 million doses it had promised to the EU. It has warned it will likewise provide just 70 million of the 180 million more meant to be delivered over the rest of this year.

AstraZeneca's French-Australian boss Pascal Soriot has argued that his company's contract with the EU binds it only to a "best reasonable efforts" clause.

But the commission says the rest of the contract shows greater legal responsibility than that, and EU diplomats and lawmakers have pointed out that the company has largely delivered promised doses to Britain, where it is headquartered

Dyr

brickster69 wrote: »

Holland sent 1.2 mln AZ to Mexico

https://twitter.com/GobiernoMX/status/1385247020135354368

Solidarity, eh? Is the European Commision going to seize those vaccines to prevent them leaving Europe?

Meanwhile, in Britain:

robinph

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

I wasn’t the one who decided to equate this ****ty vaccine with greed and Brexit

And do you think that Brexit has had any effect on contract with the EU or the supplys to the EU?

Other than some idiot politicians and the Daily Mail headlines what influence has Brexit even had on anything to do with the vaccine in the UK?

You seem to be the only person who has been affected by Brexit in response to vaccine delivery in that it's winding you up significantly.

Tippbhoy1

Aegir wrote: »

such as?

maybe if they shouted a bit louder and stamped their foot harder, it might have made vaccines miraculously appear.

The Irish government turned down an option on a small extra quantity of Moderna, as it wasn’t thought we needed it with our commitments already from all suppliers. A big mistake on our behalf. That’s why Denmark are a bit further ahead as they took the option. This is before the **** hit the fan with AZ. That’s a small microcosm of what the lies from AZ led to.

Pfizer and Biontech have reacted enormously since the debacle with AZ. If there was transparency sooner, everyone could have reacted quicker and more lives would have been saved. You can see what has happened since with the ramp with Biontech alone and the Novartis plant they took over, wasn’t in any original plan.

As for the Uk 25%, only for the EU reacting and AZ not daring to try ship a vial to the UK off the back of it, you can be sure they would have more and the EU would have less.

The 11m the Dutch are “giving away” they don’t actually have yet to give away. They might get some eventually, which by that time we will all be vaccinated. Castigated here by the usual suspects for, wait for it, not using the vaccines....that they actually don’t have anyway and by the time they will, they won’t need.

Astra Zeneca-If they’d held their hands up as soon as they knew the problems and told the truth honestly to everyone and shared the pain equally across their customers, there would be no problem. But nope, like all bad suppliers, they take the orders and will try ride it out afterwards with lies and bluster and false promises. Unfortunately in this instance it has cost lives. Disgraceful carry on from a complete joke of a company.

Tippbhoy1

brickster69 wrote: »

Holland sent 1.2 mln AZ to Mexico

https://twitter.com/GobiernoMX/status/1385247020135354368

European based plants are supplying the world.
AZ is manufactured...in Holland.

deeperlearning

India exported millions of Oxford vaccines from the Serum Institute of India to the UK.



Those drinks in the sun in the UK came at a price.

brickster69

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

The Irish government turned down an option on a small extra quantity of Moderna, as it wasn’t thought we needed it with our commitments already from all suppliers. A big mistake on our behalf. That’s why Denmark are a bit further ahead as they took the option. This is before the **** hit the fan with AZ. That’s a small microcosm of what the lies from AZ led to.

Pfizer and Biontech have reacted enormously since the debacle with AZ. If there was transparency sooner, everyone could have reacted quicker and more lives would have been saved. You can see what has happened since with the ramp with Biontech alone and the Novartis plant they took over, wasn’t in any original plan.

As for the Uk 25%, only for the EU reacting and AZ not daring to try ship a vial to the UK off the back of it, you can be sure they would have more and the EU would have less.

The 11m the Dutch are “giving away” they don’t actually have yet to give away. They might get some eventually, which by that time we will all be vaccinated. Castigated here by the usual suspects for, wait for it, not using the vaccines....that they actually don’t have anyway and by the time they will, they won’t need.

Astra Zeneca-If they’d held their hands up as soon as they knew the problems and told the truth honestly to everyone and shared the pain equally across their customers, there would be no problem. But nope, like all bad suppliers, they take the orders and will try ride it out afterwards with lies and bluster and false promises. Unfortunately in this instance it has cost lives. Disgraceful carry on from a complete joke of a company.

Well it works both ways. If German politicians never colluded with the German press stating AZ was only 8% effective, Macron stating it was quasi effective then maybe the jabs that were delivered could of been delivered to those most at risk of death.

The fact is this strategy to target AZ and create hesitancy from the population resulted in 1000's of deaths in the older people of Europe, without a doubt.

robinph

deeperlearning wrote: »

India exported millions of Oxford vaccines from the Serum Institute of India to the UK.



Those drinks in the sun in the UK came at a price.

Yes, that is correct. However, I think there is more than 2.5m people (5m doses) not having had a vaccination behind the current rise in cases and deaths in India.

brickster69

Tyrone212 wrote: »

RTE

AstraZeneca has so far delivered just 31 million of the 120 million doses it had promised to the EU.

Where do you get promised from. The deliveries were based on approval given prior to Dec 20120 and were an estimate not a guarantee. This is the whole point no one could guarantee a set amount. They still can't

Ubbquittious

deeperlearning wrote: »

India exported millions of Oxford vaccines from the Serum Institute of India to the UK.


Those drinks in the sun in the UK came at a price.

Feckin Hell. It's like something out of Game of Thrones

Charles Babbage

robinph wrote: »

... And as long as the UK is doing as badly as the EU that is all that matters.

No, what matters is that AZ were not diverting vaccine to the UK that was needed in the EU

robinph

Charles Babbage wrote: »

No, what matters is that AZ were not diverting vaccine to the UK that was needed in the EU

That was a total of 1 million doses.

brickster69

robinph wrote: »

Yes, that is correct. However, I think there is more than 2.5m people (5m doses) not having had a vaccination behind the current rise in cases and deaths in India.

Don't forget what the only vaccine they are making and giving to it's people is.

Tippbhoy1

Tippbhoy1 wrote: »

The Irish government turned down an option on a small extra quantity of Moderna, as it wasn’t thought we needed it with our commitments already from all suppliers. A big mistake on our behalf. That’s why Denmark are a bit further ahead as they took the option. This is before the **** hit the fan with AZ. That’s a small microcosm of what the lies from AZ led to.

A small extra quantity? they've only delivered 64,000 doses to Ireland so far.

If the Irish government turned down any extra vaccines, at a time when they keep telling us they can distribute them quicker than they can get them, then that says all we need to know about their efforts to actually get the population vaccinated.

robinph

Stats are showing around 120m people having had at least one dose in India.

Edit: That stat must be quite out of date as found somewhere else saying 130 million had been done by early March.

deeperlearning

deeperlearning wrote: »

India exported millions of Oxford vaccines from the Serum Institute of India to the UK.

Those drinks in the sun in the UK came at a price.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-eu-exclusive-idUSKBN2BO5H4

NEW DELHI (Reuters) - The European Union has asked India to allow it to buy 10 million doses of AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine from Serum Institute of India, a government official told Reuters, the latest sign of growing pressure on Delhi to export more of its production to other countries

drunkmonkey

Ivermectin was used widely in India in the first wave, they stopped using it but it's now been recommended again for home treatment for mild to moderate infection, AIIMS Delhi accepted it as a treatment on the 22nd of April, a swift decline is expected by the 10th of May.

https://www.indiatoday.in/coronavirus-outbreak/story/aiims-new-treatment-guidelines-for-covid19-1794038-2021-04-22

fly_agaric

Aegir wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-india-eu-exclusive-idUSKBN2BO5H4

I don't think these were received.
The UK was much quicker off the mark and (I think) and got 5m out of 10m sought.

(As repeatedly pointed out by other posters...) the "small" amounts siphoned out of EU and from India to make UK fairly good as regards AstraZenecas promises will have little impact on their vaccination programmes given population sizes.

However it does reduce amount of vaccine some unlucky individual gets in those places from 50 or 100 % to nothing. It is all a nasty zero sum game really.

Tyrone212

Aegir wrote: »

your bitterness at the success of the UK's vaccine programme is well noted by this stage, no need to keep regurgitating the same old ****e.

Funny you mention bitterness, when a couple of weeks ago you made a disgusting comment about the famine on this thread and laughing about potatoes. The English education system is lacking when it comes to past crimes so its hardly surprising.

Tyrone212

Tyrone212 wrote: »

Funny you mention bitterness, when a couple of weeks ago you made a disgusting comment about the famine on this thread and laughing about potatoes. The English education system is lacking when it comes to past crimes so its hardly surprising.

No one was laughing about the famine, just laughing at the posters who seem to think that the U.K. is somehow stealing Ireland’s vaccines.

Glad to see the bitterness is in you as well. Surely someone from Tyrone should be pleased with the conservatives getting their family vaccinated.

fly_agaric

Bit cynical wrote: »

In fairness leaving the EU meant that the UK weren't under pressure to join the EU's procurement scheme and could go their own way in handling vaccines.

Yes, UK govt. really would have needed a much more jockey's bollox toughness neck to do what they've done while still an EU member.
Germany has been attacked here (on thread) for ordering more vaccines from same suppliers as the EU but these are to be delivered after so they won't cut into the production for the initial vaccination programme.
By contrast what is happening with AZ (if UK were a member) would be intolerable [order from same company being preferentially filled over the EU (i.e. other member states) order, and UK based production walled away from other EU members].
Countries (thinking of Poland/Hungary) seem to be able to get away with quite alot when they have 1 or more partners in crime with the way the EU is set up to require unanimity or quite close to it on decisions. I think this situation would have been the EU institutions and the rest of the member states all raging with + turning their ire on 1 member (UK).

Tyrone212

Aegir wrote: »

No one was laughing about the famine, just laughing at the posters who seem to think that the U.K. is somehow stealing Ireland’s vaccines.

Glad to see the bitterness is in you as well. Surely someone from Tyrone should be pleased with the conservatives getting their family vaccinated.

You were laughing about the famine. I wouldn't go and live in Israel and laugh about the holocaust. I wouldn't laugh about it full stop just saying interesting place for you to live if you laugh about that.

Tyrone's the name of my Dog, thankfully he's unrelated to the tories. I see Boris crass comment just came to light about not caring if the bodies stacked up the street back in October. Given your comments about the genocide committed here I can how you would be attracted to support that ilk. Birds of a feather.

Tyrone212

Tyrone212 wrote: »

You were laughing about the famine. I wouldn't go and live in Israel and laugh about the holocaust. I wouldn't laugh about it full stop just saying interesting place to live if you laugh about that.

Tyrone's the name of my Dog, thankfully he's unrelated to the tories. I see Boris crass comment just came to light about not caring if the bodies stacked up the street back in October. Given your comments about the genocide committed here I can how you would be attracted to support that ilk.

I wasn’t laughing.

Genocide. That’s worth a laugh though.

fly_agaric

fly_agaric wrote: »

Yes, UK govt. really would have needed a much more jockey's bollox toughness neck to do what they've done while still an EU member.
Germany has been attacked here (on thread) for ordering more vaccines from same suppliers as the EU but these are to be delivered after so they won't cut into the production for the initial vaccination programme.
By contrast what is happening with AZ (if UK were a member) would be intolerable [order from same company being preferentially filled over the EU (i.e. other member states) order, and UK based production walled away from other EU members].
Countries (thinking of Poland/Hungary) seem to be able to get away with quite alot when they have 1 or more partners in crime with the way the EU is set up to require unanimity or quite close to it on decisions. I think this situation would have been the EU institutions and the rest of the member states all raging with + turning their ire on 1 member (UK).

If the U.K. was still in the EU and the EU were happy to follow their lead rather than try and act the hero, the EU might not be in the position it is in.

Enzokk

robinph wrote: »

You'd have to explain what number are you after?

The UK has ordered 100m doses of Astra Zeneca, they have stuck about 25m into peoples arms.

The EU ordered 300m doses and has received 30m, not sure how many they have stuck in arms.

Did you see the contradiction in your posts and the article you linked? The discussion is about how the UK got so much more of the AZ than the EU, you link an article as proof that this is not as bad as posters have said, in which the article said the UK will only receive 30m AZ doses by September. We are now in April and they have already given 25m AZ vaccines. So are you only expecting 5m for the rest of the year?

So not sure that article helps you much with in regards to AZ not delivering to both the UK and EU.

Aegir wrote: »

A small extra quantity? they've only delivered 64,000 doses to Ireland so far.

If the Irish government turned down any extra vaccines, at a time when they keep telling us they can distribute them quicker than they can get them, then that says all we need to know about their efforts to actually get the population vaccinated.

I wonder where you are from. You post eagerly about coming and goings in Ireland as if you are here, but then talk about the Irish Government as if it is not your government. Seeing that you almost blindly back the UK from any criticism and will come to their defense at any perceived slight, I am taking it you aren't in Ireland. It would just be weird for someone living in Ireland posting what you have been posting, in defense of the UK even when it has come at our expense, when getting your vaccine depends on Ireland and not the UK.

Tyrone212

Aegir wrote: »

I wasn’t laughing.

Genocide. That’s worth a laugh though.

It was genocide. Yous white wash your history though so no surprise you're ignorant about it. Hence you brought it up, made a disgusting comment, then joked about it on a topic completely unrelated.

Tyrone212

Aegir wrote: »

If the U.K. was still in the EU and the EU were happy to follow their lead rather than try and act the hero, the EU might not be in the position it is in.

I'm glad the EU didn't follow your Boris lead in to taking it on the chin, boasting about still shaking hands with people in hospital then ending up in ICU a month later and then saying they didn't give a **** if bodies were stacked up on the street.

Enzokk

Enzokk wrote: »

I wonder where you are from. You post eagerly about coming and goings in Ireland as if you are here, but then talk about the Irish Government as if it is not your government. Seeing that you almost blindly back the UK from any criticism and will come to their defense at any perceived slight, I am taking it you aren't in Ireland. It would just be weird for someone living in Ireland posting what you have been posting, in defense of the UK even when it has come at our expense, when getting your vaccine depends on Ireland and not the UK.

I’m in Ireland and getting increasingly frustrated at watching friends and family back home all get a vaccine, while here there still seems to be no form of a mass vaccine roll out. Just the usual nepotism and cronyism.

There are 125,000 people that work for the HSE and they managed to vaccinate the 235,000 that work on the front line.

That’s banana republic stuff.

Tyrone212

Tyrone212 wrote: »

It was genocide. Yous white wash your history though so no surprise you're ignorant about it. Hence you brought it, made a disgusting comment, then joked about it on a topic completely unrelated.

Genocide my arse.

fly_agaric

Aegir wrote: »

If the U.K. was still in the EU and the EU were happy to follow their lead rather than try and act the hero, the EU might not be in the position it is in.

Not to derail...but cannot resist, that really was the heart of the problem as regards the UK and membership of the EU wasn't it? Certainly for UK politicians, can't speak to what the public thought. Playing second fiddle to the ilk of Germany and France (when both agree, and are quite determined on doing something at EU level). Not automatically being able to lead.

edit: I have to admit you might be right though (to an extent, that UK being involved would have been a help). Would have been another large and wealthy member pushing for "lets just do it and spend what we need to spend and think later", which would have been beneficial to the programme. There do seem to be specific issues with the AstraZeneca order that go wider than agruments about the EU spending less than USA (for example). It's the one that is so much more off target than all the others, and nothing seems to be improving really as time goes on this year.

Charles Babbage

robinph wrote: »

That was a total of 1 million doses.

the quantity is not the point

Enzokk

Aegir wrote: »

I’m in Ireland and getting increasingly frustrated at watching friends and family back home all get a vaccine, while here there still seems to be no form of a mass vaccine roll out. Just the usual nepotism and cronyism.

There are 125,000 people that work for the HSE and they managed to vaccinate the 235,000 that work on the front line.

That’s banana republic stuff.

Do you hear yourself? Did you not see the contracts for friends of Conservative MPs? Or how about the UK Track and Trace costing more than the Irish health budget, and still by all accounts not being fit for purpose. But yeah, we are the banana republic.

Also, if it is so bad the flights are still happening between the UK and Ireland. By all means leave and rid yourself of the hassle of fighting the good fight against those that just cannot see your truth.

fly_agaric

Enzokk wrote: »

Do you hear yourself? Did you not see the contracts for friends of Conservative MPs? Or how about the UK Track and Trace costing more than the Irish health budget, and still by all accounts not being fit for purpose. But yeah, we are the banana republic.

It definitely was something you could throw in the face of Ireland in the past.
Always really admired the rectitude of UK politicians that would immediately fall on their swords when a scandal came out, some of them appearing quite minor compared to what has gone on in this country.
Seems to be going by the wayside now. As an outsider I point the finger at having (effective) 1 party rule for too long. I think that is what caused alot of it in Ireland in the past, the vice grip that FF and to a lesser extent FG had on power.

fly_agaric

fly_agaric wrote: »

Not to derail...but cannot resist, that really was the heart of the problem as regards the UK and membership of the EU wasn't it? Certainly for UK politicians, can't speak to what the public thought. Playing second fiddle to the ilk of Germany and France (when both agree, and are quite determined on doing something at EU level). Not automatically being able to lead.

edit: I have to admit you might be right though. Would have been another large and wealthy member pushing for "lets just do it and spend what we need to spend and think later", which would have been beneficial to the programme. There do seem to be specific issues with the AstraZeneca order that go wider than the EU spending less than USA (for example) given it's the one that is so much more off target than all the others, and nothing seems to be improving really as time goes on this year.

Stella Kyriakides related it to a queue in a butcher's shop.

What the UK did, was to basically take away the arguments of a who comes first and got the butcher to make it's products in their factory.

They didn't just wave wads of cash, they actually bought the necessary equipment and built their own factory and got the butcher to make their products there. This all started in April last year, which is why Pascal Soriot talks about the UK being three months ahead. They have done the same thing with the Valneva and Novavax vaccines as well, although these are still further down the pipeline.

As crass as it was from Boris to say that capitalism was the key to the success of the programme, he does have a point. It was treated the same way as a venture capital company would if they bought a start up and wanted to take the company's products to market en masse. To someone like Kate Bingham (remember her, the woman appointed to lead the vaccine task force and whose appointment was called chumocracy), it was second nature.

With the huge pharma capacity in europe and the buying power of the EU, imagine if they had done the same thing. We would be awash with vaccines by now.

robinph

Enzokk wrote: »

Did you see the contradiction in your posts and the article you linked? The discussion is about how the UK got so much more of the AZ than the EU, you link an article as proof that this is not as bad as posters have said, in which the article said the UK will only receive 30m AZ doses by September. We are now in April and they have already given 25m AZ vaccines. So are you only expecting 5m for the rest of the year?

So not sure that article helps you much with in regards to AZ not delivering to both the UK and EU.

It was an article from November 2020 referencing deliveries expected to be made available by September 2020.

Enzokk

Enzokk wrote: »

Do you hear yourself? Did you not see the contracts for friends of Conservative MPs? Or how about the UK Track and Trace costing more than the Irish health budget, and still by all accounts not being fit for purpose. But yeah, we are the banana republic.

Who has the contract to run the Irish test and trace system and how much does it cost?

Enzokk wrote: »

Also, if it is so bad the flights are still happening between the UK and Ireland. By all means leave and rid yourself of the hassle of fighting the good fight against those that just cannot see your truth.

:cool: