What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

drunkmonkey

fly_agaric wrote: »

That is unknowable (by you) + also don't think it is great to be dishing out unsolicited medical advice on vaccination here.

I thought he was a HCW at the start which would have made the odds a log higher, the advice came from Luke O'Neill there's a link to the podcast discussing it above.
Testing is about to come on a lot so it'll be a lot easier see who had it. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fda-authorizes-cell-test-game-changer-covid-19/story?id=76318248

It is NOT Luke o'Neills advice for front line workers to avoid a 2nd dose
It is mine that they take it
The risk versus reward is microscopically small

drunkmonkey

Marine Layer wrote: »

It is NOT Luke o'Neills advice for front line workers to avoid a 2nd dose
It is mine that they take it
The risk versus reward is microscopically small

He was suggesting going from some study that a previous infection and one dose gives better protection than two doses and an infection.
Risk vs reward is wholly dependent on age and sex when it comes to AZ especially in women, we've had two high profile deaths in the UK in the last week or so both making headline news in the manistream media.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I thought he was a HCW at the start which would have made the odds a log higher, the advice came from Luke O'Neill there's a link to the podcast discussing it above.
Testing is about to come on a lot so it'll be a lot easier see who had it. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fda-authorizes-cell-test-game-changer-covid-19/story?id=76318248

You don't just decide not to give someone a second dose because they might have had covid. There are plenty of frontline workers who haven't had it. You can't base vaccine policy on assumptions.

fly_agaric

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I thought he was a HCW at the start which would have made the odds a log higher, the advice came from Luke O'Neill there's a link to the podcast discussing it above.
Testing is about to come on a lot so it'll be a lot easier see who had it. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/fda-authorizes-cell-test-game-changer-covid-19/story?id=76318248

Interesting link, but none of that changes anything (as regards you not knowing whether a person got Covid or not).
I haven't listened to the podcast you mention so don't know if you are distorting it or not.
Just don't think it is right to effectively make medical suggestions to people about whether they should get a 2nd dose of vaccine or not, and to be frank I'd take anything you post on any subject (let alone something so serious) with a mine of salt.

drunkmonkey

Flying Fox wrote: »

You don't just decide not to give someone a second dose because they might have had covid. There are plenty of frontline workers who haven't had it. You can't base vaccine policy on assumptions.

No you need evidence and we don't have the tests in Ireland available yet so you can only assume he doesn't have it that's not to say he didn't though.
Most of our policy is built on assumptions.

drunkmonkey

fly_agaric wrote: »

Interesting link, but none of that changes anything (as regards you not knowing whether a person got Covid or not).
I haven't listened to the podcast you mention so don't know if you are distorting it or not.
Just don't think it is right to effectively make medical suggestions to people about whether they should get a 2nd dose of vaccine or not, and to be frank I'd take anything you post on any subject (let alone something so serious) with a mine of salt.

What did I distort, are you saying he didn't say it? Nice to get an auld dig there just to prove your an expert eh, can't debate on the topic so you get personal, childish behavior tbf.
I'm not advising anyone to do anything just mentioning what the latest thinking is, it's up to everyone to do their own due diligence with any information they read or hear.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He was suggesting going from some study that a previous infection and one dose gives better protection than two doses and an infection.
Risk vs reward is wholly dependent on age and sex when it comes to AZ especially in women, we've had two high profile deaths in the UK in the last week or so both making headline news in the manistream media.

30 million plus doses of Astra in the UK
Pandemic kills 152,000 plus in the UK
You're having a laugh

drunkmonkey

Marine Layer wrote: »

30 million plus doses of Astra in the UK
Pandemic kills 152,000 plus in the UK
You're having a laugh

You don't understand the numbers, how many healthy young women with no underlying conditions did it kill in the UK out of the 152,000? What's the odds of a 39yr healthy woman dying from it, do you even know?

fly_agaric

drunkmonkey wrote: »

What did I distort, are you saying he didn't say it?

I said I do not know if you distorted it or not because I have not listened to it yet (I probably will later as am curious).
I don't trust you based on your posting history/past experience.

drunkmonkey wrote:

Nice to get an auld dig there just to prove your an expert eh, can't debate on the topic so you get personal, childish behavior tbf.

drunkmonkey wrote:

I'm not advising anyone to do anything just mentioning what the latest thinking is, it's up to everyone to do their own due diligence with any information they read or hear.

I don't want a debate on it.
I'm not trying to prove anything and do not claim "expertise" about vaccinations + whether particular people should take 2nd dose of vaccine or not and cetainly don't offer my own advice/suggestions on it.
People should look first to general recommendations of HSE/experts running our vaccination programme for that, and if worried or have special circumstances, ask their doctor.

Yeah I admit it is a bit childish but you do deserve the odd dig, again based on material you have posted in past + it rubbed me up the wrong way somewhat seeing you in particular offer out some free medical advice about vaccines.
If you are taking that back now that's progress so maybe it wasn't a total waste of time even if it was childish!

drunkmonkey

fly_agaric wrote: »

I said I do not know if you distorted it or not because I have not listened to it yet (I probably will later as am curious).
I don't trust you based on your posting history/past experience.

So you didn't listen to it but suggested I distorted it anyway, grow up and think before you post.

robinph

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You don't understand the numbers, how many healthy young women with no underlying conditions did it kill in the UK out of the 152,000? What's the odds of a 39yr healthy woman dying from it, do you even know?

200 deaths of people under 40 just during January 2021 in the UK, and another 500 between 40 and 50 for the same month.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-report

That against 40 deaths across all age groups potentially from the vaccine.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You don't understand the numbers, how many healthy young women with no underlying conditions did it kill in the UK out of the 152,000? What's the odds of a 39yr healthy woman dying from it, do you even know?

You advised a front line worker not to take a 2nd shot in a country way behind the UK with vaccinations but that will have caught up in a few months
We will be doing this next year again
I follow the science,you can follow your anti vax agenda to your hearts content
It will get you nowhere

drunkmonkey

robinph wrote: »

200 deaths of people under 40 just during January 2021 in the UK, and another 500 between 40 and 50 for the same month.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-report

That against 40 deaths across all age groups potentially from the vaccine.

It's topline data I can't see where it says if they had underlying conditions, were taking about 2 healthy female celebrities, there seems to be increased concerns about this particular vaccine in females of a certain age, not convinced burying the news in stats is the correct strategy. It's headline news in the UK they wouldn't be running those stories without concern.

Our health care workers are up for their second dose next week and the alarm bells are ringing https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0528/1224368-coronavirus-ireland/

drunkmonkey

Marine Layer wrote: »

You advised a front line worker not to take a 2nd shot in a country way behind the UK with vaccinations but that will have caught up in a few months
We will be doing this next year again
I follow the science,you can follow your anti vax agenda to your hearts content
It will get you nowhere

No I said we don't know if they were infected and it turns out it was a fireman not a nurse, you've had your Pfizer vax that's fantastic but your posting has been completely misleading, you thought a vaccine with 90% efficiency means you still have a 10% chance of getting it, you have very little understanding of the "science" from my observations of your posts.

Now we're discussing the risk of deaths in females of a certain age from AZ and rather than come up with some research you've decided to go with the ahh they must be anti vaxx, there's concerns even if you can't see them.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Our health care workers are up for their second dose next week and the alarm bells are ringing https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0528/1224368-coronavirus-ireland/

They've a bigger risk if on the pill AND a bigger risk giving birth of blood clots
Thats right,you put your Mammy at bigger risk by being born than if she took Astrazenica
Just goes to show how trivial this is and how common sense prevails

https://www.healthline.com/health/birth-control/pulmonary-embolism-birth-control

The bigger issue with Astra is not getting that 2nd dose fast enough

drunkmonkey

Oh Lord!

fly_agaric

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So you didn't listen to it but suggested I distorted it anyway, grow up and think before you post.

Coming from you...! Physician heal thyself.
Probably not best metaphor to be throwing out there though given what started all this. .

Wolf359f

Marine Layer wrote: »

They've a bigger risk if on the pill AND a bigger risk giving birth of blood clots
Thats right,you put your Mammy at bigger risk by being born than if she took Astrazenica
Just goes to show how trivial this is and how common sense prevails

https://www.healthline.com/health/birth-control/pulmonary-embolism-birth-control

The bigger issue with Astra is not getting that 2nd dose fast enough

Completely different and much more serious and fatal clot. This nonsence of comparing to regular clots has got to stop.

drunkmonkey

fly_agaric wrote: »

Coming from you...! Physician heal thyself.
Probably not best metaphor to be throwing out there though given what started all this. .

Have you anything to add besides trolling.

Wolf359f

Wolf359f wrote: »

Completely different and much more serious and fatal clot. This nonsence of comparing to regular clots has got to stop.

Methinks low grade anti vax postings needs to be tackled too
Theres a much higher death rate from giving birth or from being on the pill for women than a 2nd dose of Astrazenica and no one is going on about it because both are just one of those things that 99 point zillion nines percent of us wont have to worry about

Timberrrrrrrr

drunkmonkey wrote: »

No you need evidence and we don't have the tests in Ireland available yet so you can only assume he doesn't have it that's not to say he didn't though.
Most of our policy is built on assumptions.

You assume you don't have heart disease, or do you get a weekly test for it?

drunkmonkey

Marine Layer wrote: »

Methinks low grade anti vax postings needs to be tackled too

Do something about it, Make sure to tell them about the antivaxx agenda being run in the UK and Global media about AZ and that Lisa Shaw and Stephanie Dubois would have died in childbirth or from taking the pill anyway.
Independent press standard organisation: https://www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

We're not taking about Viz here this is coming from the BBC, Times, Sky News, The Telegraph, Financial Times etc.

Let's see what happens with the HCW all coming up to their second jab of mainly AZ, you should tell Phil Ni Sheaghdha what you told us that should keep her members happy.

You do realize your in the AZ thread and there's no such talk about the Vaccine you had, If anything I'd expect you to be promoting Pfizer not AZ.

drunkmonkey

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You assume you don't have heart disease, or do you get a weekly test for it?

You assume your always correct or do you get a weekly test for it?
You were completely wrong yesterday, now it's back to the off topic switcheroo trick.

drunkmonkey

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do something about it, Make sure to tell them about the antivaxx agenda being run in the UK and Global media about AZ and that Lisa Shaw and Stephanie Dubois would have died in childbirth or from taking the pill anyway.
Independent press standard organisation: https://www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

We're not taking about Viz here this is coming from the BBC, Times, Sky News, The Telegraph, Financial Times etc.

Let's see what happens with the HCW all coming up to their second jab of mainly AZ, you should tell Phil Ni Sheaghdha what you told us that should keep her members happy.

You do realize your in the AZ thread and there's no such talk about the Vaccine you had, If anything I'd expect you to be promoting Pfizer not AZ.

You are bigging up a tiny spec of dust to anti vax post
Earrlier in the vaccination campaign,it was your hope that younger people wouldn't be eager you were bigging
Most people see through this and ignore it thankfully

fly_agaric

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Have you anything to add besides trolling.

I did listen to it (Newstalk podcast you linked) now.
I don't think he (Luke O'Neill) said people should just act themselves now in the way you were and avoid a second dose. He said evidence was growing it is not needed (if you alread had Covid-19) & the guidelines may be changed as a result with the goal of saving quantity of vaccine used (the vaccines are still in very short supply globally). He said the EMA were "examining it".

You'd want to be quite certain that you actually had Covid.
At the moment that would mean having been swab tested positive for it yourself at some point over last year/14 months wouldn't it?

Not some suspicion you might have had it because many people in your job get it due to exposure, or some of your contacts got it, or you felt ill with some Covid-like symptoms in the last year.

If you never had Covid, you would be damaging the protection from the vaccine by not taking both the doses, which would be quite dangerous/risky wouldn't it?
If you take both doses and you actually did have Covid already + didn't know all that has happened is more vaccine than you needed to be protected was used on you (if what Luke O'Neill was citing is bourne out).

Baggly

Mod

Drunkmonkey, dont post in this thread again.

robinph

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do something about it, Make sure to tell them about the antivaxx agenda being run in the UK and Global media about AZ and that Lisa Shaw and Stephanie Dubois would have died in childbirth or from taking the pill anyway.
Independent press standard organisation: https://www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

We're not taking about Viz here this is coming from the BBC, Times, Sky News, The Telegraph, Financial Times etc.

Let's see what happens with the HCW all coming up to their second jab of mainly AZ, you should tell Phil Ni Sheaghdha what you told us that should keep her members happy.

You do realize your in the AZ thread and there's no such talk about the Vaccine you had, If anything I'd expect you to be promoting Pfizer not AZ.

A celebrity death getting more news coverage than a non celebrity death isn't news. That's how the celebrity system works, but doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know.

There are now over 10 million people in the UK who have had both Astra Zeneca jabs, and plenty of people from all age ranges and professions in that group.

deeperlearning

robinph wrote: »

200 deaths of people under 40 just during January 2021 in the UK, and another 500 between 40 and 50 for the same month.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-reported-sars-cov-2-deaths-in-england/covid-19-confirmed-deaths-in-england-report

That against 40 deaths across all age groups potentially from the vaccine.

The risk of covid is much smaller in healthy young people.

The vast majority of young people who died with covid in the UK had underlying conditions. Many of these had very serious conditions and were in hospital when they were unfortunate enough to catch covid. Many died with covid rather than from covid.

However, the AstraZeneca vaccine causes blood clots in perfectly healthy young people and this risk outweights the risk of covid in a perfectly healthy young person.

Timberrrrrrrr

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do something about it, Make sure to tell them about the antivaxx agenda being run in the UK and Global media about AZ and that Lisa Shaw and Stephanie Dubois would have died in childbirth or from taking the pill anyway.
Independent press standard organisation: https://www.ipso.co.uk/complain/

We're not taking about Viz here this is coming from the BBC, Times, Sky News, The Telegraph, Financial Times etc.

Let's see what happens with the HCW all coming up to their second jab of mainly AZ, you should tell Phil Ni Sheaghdha what you told us that should keep her members happy.

You do realize your in the AZ thread and there's no such talk about the Vaccine you had, If anything I'd expect you to be promoting Pfizer not AZ.

You mean the main stream media? The MSM that you have often told us couldnt/shouldn't be believed? That main stream media?? :rolleyes:


Edit: posted before I seen mod note.

brendanwalsh

Very annoying seeing people continually compare a DVT or a PE clot from the pill to a cerebral sinus thrombosis in the brain.

They are completely different.

Dyr

fly_agaric wrote: »

Ha, speak of one of the devils!
Yes, we'll just have to wait and see.
As per tweet Brickster posted you can always say it was a kangaroo court (not like a Real British One??) if the EU somehow ended up winning.



That is unknowable (by you) + also don't think it is great to be dishing out unsolicited medical advice on vaccination here.

I think you're having difficutly being civil, all seems very personal to you, bit odd.

EU would have a better chance in a British court actually.

brendanwalsh

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Very annoying seeing people continually compare a DVT or a PE clot from the pill to a cerebral sinus thrombosis in the brain.

They are completely different.

Death however is generally the same
Your heart stops,your body will be buried,cremated or donated to medical science
Its an outcome prospect no huge fuss should be made of in any extremely rare circumstance it happens,like driving your car it can or your plane crashes

deeperlearning

Marine Layer wrote: »

Methinks low grade anti vax postings needs to be tackled too
Theres a much higher death rate from giving birth or from being on the pill for women than a 2nd dose of Astrazenica and no one is going on about it because both are just one of those things that 99 point zillion nines percent of us wont have to worry about

You simply don't know that.

Too few second doses have been administered to younger women to state this with any certainty.

Fom Today's Irish Independent
Fewer than 5 cases here and no deaths

THE risk of a rare blood clot after receiving a dose of AstraZeneca vaccine remains one in 100,000, but the fatality rate has fallen since last month, the European drugs watchdog said yesterday.

Officials said 17 million people received a dose by mid-April, and that figure has now risen to 19 million.

As of yesterday, the watchdog had recorded 316 cases of blood clots with low platelets - including fewer than five in Ireland - among people who received the jab in EU countries.

While there is no change in the frequency of the unusual blood clots, the fatality rate has fallen as patients and doctors have become more alert to potential symptoms, taskforce chair Marco Cavaleri told the European Medicines Agency (EMA) press conference.

Fewer than five cases have been reported here and no deaths.

So far, 2.1 million doses of the Johnson & Johnson vaccine have been administered in Europe and only one possible case of rare blood clot has been reported, the EMA said.

is_that_so

deeperlearning wrote: »

You simply don't know that.

Too few second doses have been administered to younger women to state this with any certainty.

And we will not get to that level of data either as the usage of AZ is coming to an end after the current second doses.

Enzokk

This seems not great for AZ and new variants,

Prof Kingston Mills said that NIAC's recommendation to reduce the gap between doses from 12 weeks to eight comes after studies in the UK showed that a single dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine was "not really going to prevent infection or even disease" from the Delta variant of the virus.

He said that this is now the predominant variant in the UK and increasing numbers have been detected in Ireland, rising from 97 to 150 and it could be higher.

Prof Mills said that there are moves to give a second dose of Pfizer to the under 50s who were vaccinated with AstraZeneca first time, but no mention of doing this for the over 60s or over 70s.

Prof Mills said "in my estimation this is the group who should get a booster with Pfizer as they are a high-risk group and should be given the best vaccine".

HSE working on NIAC advice in relation to AstraZeneca vaccine

Wolf359f

Enzokk wrote: »

This seems not great for AZ and new variants,



HSE working on NIAC advice in relation to AstraZeneca vaccine

It's not even confirmed that we have 150 cases of the Indian variant. I didn't quite catch it at the last press conference, but the way the sequencing works they are still confirming the previous 2 weeks, so I think any increase would be spread out over a 2 week period.

But taking it as 50 in a week, it accounts for less than 2% of all cases so far in a week. We also only have or will only have 15% of the adult population vaccinated with AZ, so they will gain protection from the other 85% who will be vaccinated with mRNA/J&J. In the UK, AZ currently accounts for 63% of their vaccine rollout.

Moyglish

It's almost 9 weeks ago now since I had my first shot of AZ.

With the recent announcement that they are going to minimise the waiting period between doses from 12 weeks to 8 weeks, does this mean that I am likely to get my second shot before my 12 weeks are up?

How likely is it that the HSE will adopt a mix and match policy and offer alternatives to AZ for those due their second vaccine?

astrofool

Moyglish wrote: »

It's almost 9 weeks ago now since I had my first shot of AZ.

With the recent announcement that they are going to minimise the waiting period between doses from 12 weeks to 8 weeks, does this mean that I am likely to get my second shot before my 12 weeks are up?

You might get a shot quicker but there's still logistics to put in place for it to happen so will probably end up on the 12 week schedule.

The reason they are looking at bringing it in to 8 weeks is to enhance the protection against some of the variants (and allow those with AZ to take advantage of the "vaccine bonus" which is a political construct and not really science based given when it kicks in), I do not believe that it's because 8 weeks is when the greatest protection is offered. The other important thing to remember is that the vaccine will be protecting against severe symptoms a a much higher % than the efficacy rate, this is important as it's what protects you against death, the news headlines aren't really going with those numbers, for whatever reason.

Moyglish wrote: »

How likely is it that the HSE will adopt a mix and match policy and offer alternatives to AZ for those due their second vaccine?

Probably unlikely for those already vaccinated, could definitely see booster variance.

ddarcy

Moyglish wrote: »

It's almost 9 weeks ago now since I had my first shot of AZ.

With the recent announcement that they are going to minimise the waiting period between doses from 12 weeks to 8 weeks, does this mean that I am likely to get my second shot before my 12 weeks are up?

How likely is it that the HSE will adopt a mix and match policy and offer alternatives to AZ for those due their second vaccine?

They said yesterday that they would start from the people at 12 weeks and gradually being it down. They are still vaccinating HCWs who has theirs pushed out to 16 weeks and brought down to 12 weeks. There is a massive delivery expected in a couple of weeks (21st of June) so you will probably get offered it around then. I think this is all for show, they just don’t have the vaccines yet so if you are above 8 weeks currently, you’ll probably have to wait the full 12 weeks to get it.

On the second dose being mRNA, two studies show this is better combination to get, but our politicians won’t want to lose those 500k doses when they can go to the unvaccinated, remember it’s all about numbers right now to make themselves look good and this will slow down rollout by a few weeks. So very unlikely unless there is a mass boycott of people refusing to take AZ as a second dose. You’ll notice the media is very quiet about reporting the results from Spain and the UK as I believe people would boycott the dose if they talked about it.

Dyr

ddarcy wrote: »

. You’ll notice the media is very quiet about reporting the results from Spain and the UK as I believe people would boycott the dose if they talked about it.

But you're free to report the results, so fire away.

ddarcy

Bambi wrote: »

But you're free to report the results, so fire away.

The Combivacs study, run by Spain's state-backed Carlos III Health Institute, found the presence of IgG antibodies in the bloodstream was between 30 and 40 times higher in people who got the follow-up Pfizer shot than in a control group who only received one AstraZeneca dose.

Meanwhile, the presence of neutralising antibodies rose sevenfold after a Pfizer dose, significantly more than the doubling effect observed after a second AstraZeneca shot.

[url] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/spanish-study-finds-astrazeneca-vaccine-followed-by-pfizer-dose-is-safe-2021-05-18/[/url]

Nothing on RTE other than mixing doses is not recommended. Other Irish outlets just talk about side effects from the studies, but don’t bring up the results.

is_that_so

ddarcy wrote: »

[url] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/spanish-study-finds-astrazeneca-vaccine-followed-by-pfizer-dose-is-safe-2021-05-18/[/url]

Nothing on RTE other than mixing doses is not recommended. Other Irish outlets just talk about side effects from the studies, but don’t bring up the results.

And there won't be any unless NIAC recommend a change. That mixed approach is still at what is effectively a clinical trial stage. AZ for us is basically for second doses and it will likely cease to be part of our programme over the next two months.

deeperlearning

The UK's daily cases per 100,000 are now twice that of countries such as Germany, Italy, Canada and the United States.

Is this showing up an inherent weakness in the AstraZeneca vaccine (predominant vaccine in the UK) compared to mRNA vaccines which have been predominant elsewhere.

Stark

deeperlearning wrote: »

The UK's daily cases per 100,000 are now twice that of countries such as Germany, Italy, Canada and the United States.

Is this showing up an inherent weakness in the AstraZeneca vaccine (predominant used in the UK) compared to mRNA vaccines which have been predominant in Germany, Italy, Canada and the United States.

No it's to do with combination of Covid Delta and UK being further along in lockdown easing than the other countries.

robinph

Stark wrote: »

No it's to do with combination of Covid Delta and UK being further along in lockdown easing than the other countries.

Yup. Whilst there is around 60% of those vaccinated so far who have had AstraZenica rather than any of the others, and that ratio is actually reducing with the current rollout, there is still minimal people who have had any versions of vaccine who are ending up in hospital in the UK.

Cases are rising amongst the younger unvaccinated and those who are older and skipped the vaccine are ending up in hospital. But hospital numbers are not rising massively as those presenting are younger and healthier than people who were turning up at hospital in previous waves.

ddarcy

Another study showing AZ followed by Pfizer gives the best response. That’s 3 studies now showing this. But I see the government and NIAC kicking the can down the road to have everyone given 2 doses of AZ instead of following what other countries are doing, and being proven right to do, and give Pfizer as the second dose. Especially as it’s mostly high risk and front line workers who got this vaccine. You’d think there would be long term thinking…

[url] https://innovationorigins.com/en/vaccine-study-best-immune-response-with-combination-of-astrazeneca-and-biontech/[\url][/url]

astrofool

ddarcy wrote: »

Another study showing AZ followed by Pfizer gives the best response. That’s 3 studies now showing this. But I see the government and NIAC kicking the can down the road to have everyone given 2 doses of AZ instead of following what other countries are doing, and being proven right to do, and give Pfizer as the second dose. Especially as it’s mostly high risk and front line workers who got this vaccine. You’d think there would be long term thinking…

[url] https://innovationorigins.com/en/vaccine-study-best-immune-response-with-combination-of-astrazeneca-and-biontech/[\url][/url]

a) that study is still not completed, it would be akin to rolling out vaccines while they were in the middle of phase 3 trials
b) there is no great concerns about a 2 dose AZ vaccine course against the variants right now
c) any boosters are highly likely to be mRNA or protein based vaccines which will have gone through the trials by the time they are given
d) given supply, every dose of Pfizer given to someone who got AZ is one less Pfizer vaccine for someone who hasn't been vaccinated yet who is unlikely to be able to use AZ, it won't be until July/August that there will be any flexibility to start mixing doses, hopefully based on a full set of results

ddarcy

astrofool wrote: »

d) given supply, every dose of Pfizer given to someone who got AZ is one less Pfizer vaccine for someone who hasn't been vaccinated yet who is unlikely to be able to use AZ, it won't be until July/August that there will be any flexibility to start mixing doses, hopefully based on a full set of results

Don’t get me wrong this is exactly why they won’t do it. If they kick the can out for another 3-4 weeks everyone who chooses to get the service jab will have gotten it. So by delaying they are ensuring Pfizer isn’t used for the group. In time we’ll see if this is a mistake or if they get away with it.

Given what is going on with the US submission, I think it’s a mistake. The FDA is much more rigorous than the EMA and they definitely see something they don’t like.