What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

Furze99

Having listened to various experts over past few days inc Colm Henry of HSE today, I'm even more confused.

The general line seems to be that a second dose of an MRNA vaccine after a first dose of AZ would be beneficial. Even Henry above said that.

But that people who've been given a first dose of AZ shouldn't ask for this and that instead of waiting 3 months for a second dose of AZ we might now get it a week or so earlier.

And that people should not decline second dose of AZ and wait for the inevitable dose of an 'mrna booster' because it doesn't suit the HSE plan.

Which makes you wonder - which is more important? Individuals health and concerns or the schemes of the HSE strategists.

Mixed messages all the way.

brendanwalsh

Just refuse your second AZ on health grounds and clotting concerns and they’ll be forced to give everyone mRNA.

AZ contract was not renewed by the EU.
That means once this supply is done, Europe is done with adenovector vaccines.

Mickey Mouse Martin etc just want to use up the stock of AZ they have left floating around

is_that_so

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Just refuse your second AZ on health grounds and clotting concerns and they’ll be forced to give everyone mRNA.

AZ contract was not renewed by the EU.
That means once this supply is done, Europe is done with adenovector vaccines.

Mickey Mouse Martin etc just want to use up the stock of AZ they have left floating around

That's really not going to happen. If you're on one and refuse the second, you're on our own. The quantity of AZ coming in the next month or so should be about enough to cover second doses and any extras will be returned to the EU for donation.

Allinall

Furze99 wrote: »

Having listened to various experts over past few days inc Colm Henry of HSE today, I'm even more confused.

The general line seems to be that a second dose of an MRNA vaccine after a first dose of AZ would be beneficial. Even Henry above said that.

But that people who've been given a first dose of AZ shouldn't ask for this and that instead of waiting 3 months for a second dose of AZ we might now get it a week or so earlier.

And that people should not decline second dose of AZ and wait for the inevitable dose of an 'mrna booster' because it doesn't suit the HSE plan.

Which makes you wonder - which is more important? Individuals health and concerns or the schemes of the HSE strategists.

Mixed messages all the way.

Where did you get this nugget from?

is_that_so

Allinall wrote: »

Where did you get this nugget from?

It's now the plan , to reduce the gap down to 8 weeks. In effect to get all second doses ASAP. Delta fear at the back of it.

titan18

is_that_so wrote: »

That's really not going to happen. If you're on one and refuse the second, you're on our own. The quantity of AZ coming in the next month or so should be about enough to cover second doses and any extras will be returned to the EU for donation.

So, if all the HCWs who got AZ refused the second dose of it, you think the HSE would go grand, you're on your own? Considering that loads of the infections happen there, it'd be a giant own goal if they did that.

Also, based on track results, the people who refused the first dose of the AZ vaccine got a Pfizer one or a J&J one in the end anyway. They didn't even wait until the end of the queue, they got them back in May like a few weeks after they would have got the AZ one.

Bass Reeves

Furze99 wrote: »

Having listened to various experts over past few days inc Colm Henry of HSE today, I'm even more confused.

The general line seems to be that a second dose of an MRNA vaccine after a first dose of AZ would be beneficial. Even Henry above said that.

But that people who've been given a first dose of AZ shouldn't ask for this and that instead of waiting 3 months for a second dose of AZ we might now get it a week or so earlier.

And that people should not decline second dose of AZ and wait for the inevitable dose of an 'mrna booster' because it doesn't suit the HSE plan.

Which makes you wonder - which is more important? Individuals health and concerns or the schemes of the HSE strategists.

Mixed messages all the way.

The HSE and NEPHET cannot look at individual health, it must look at the best outcome for the general population. Because of variants it must get 80-90% of the population vaccinated.
If it uses mRNA as second dose for those that got the first dose as AZ it will push out vaccination of younger adults by 2-3 weeks. As well mRNA vaccine is suitable for 12-18 year olds. By using up AZ which is a decent vaccine it may allow them to vaccinate these teenagers by mid-term maybe sooner Using up AZ doses also virtually guarantee's vaccination of 3rd level cohort by early first term.

AZ has way less risk attached to 2nd dose, it builds immunity slowly. A mRNA booster before Christmas will mean that this cohort will be the most protected section of society by next Christmas when any risk will arise again IMO

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Just refuse your second AZ on health grounds and clotting concerns and they’ll be forced to give everyone mRNA.

AZ contract was not renewed by the EU.
That means once this supply is done, Europe is done with adenovector vaccines.

Mickey Mouse Martin etc just want to use up the stock of AZ they have left floating around

Selfish and stupid as jinking. Selfish as it dose not look at what the vaccination plan is and what could be the result for younger adults. I suspect you have neither children or grandchildren and if you have you are a selfish git

Stupid as you may not be given a second dose until AZ booster is given later in the year.

I got AZ as first dose and will take it as second dose, yes I prefer to have got mRNA and to get it as second dose but I understand what is best overall for everyone

is_that_so

titan18 wrote: »

So, if all the HCWs who got AZ refused the second dose of it, you think the HSE would go grand, you're on your own? Considering that loads of the infections happen there, it'd be a giant own goal if they did that.

Also, based on track results, the people who refused the first dose of the AZ vaccine got a Pfizer one or a J&J one in the end anyway. They didn't even wait until the end of the queue, they got them back in May like a few weeks after they would have got the AZ one.

I really don't see what throwing up completely imaginary scenarios are supposed to do. The HSE told them, as they've told all other groups, there is no choice of vaccine. I also doubt there are that many contrarians like you in the HSE. From what we've seen people are very eager to get shots so all of this is completely moot.

titan18

is_that_so wrote: »

I really don't see what throwing up completely imaginary scenarios are supposed to do. The HSE told them, as they've told all other groups, there is no choice of vaccine. I also doubt there are that many contrarians like you in the HSE. From what we've seen people are very eager to get shots so all of this is completely moot.

They told them there's no choice of vaccine, and yet still the people who refused to take AZ still ended up with getting Pfizer quite quickly after refusing that (and I know people who did this), and all of them will be fully dosed before the people who complied are.

The whole situation around threatening people to take AZ and then giving in immediately to those who still refused is ridiculous. I'm not in that age group but I know people who are and most are furious, and the reason other groups like SF are getting involved is cos those people are turning to them as they've been let down by FF and FG here. Being obstinate and refusing to give them a different second dose or not allowing the choice whilst we can see other countries doing that is making it worse as when other countries see the scientific evidence of doing it but ours are still refusing, then it doesn't look good, and it looks like they just want to get rid of what they had bought.

is_that_so

titan18 wrote: »

They told them there's no choice of vaccine, and yet still the people who refused to take AZ still ended up with getting Pfizer quite quickly after refusing that (and I know people who did this), and all of them will be fully dosed before the people who complied are.

The whole situation around threatening people to take AZ and then giving in immediately to those who still refused is ridiculous. I'm not in that age group but I know people who are and most are furious, and the reason other groups like SF are getting involved is cos those people are turning to them as they've been let down by FF and FG here. Being obstinate and refusing to give them a different second dose or not allowing the choice whilst we can see other countries doing that is making it worse as when other countries see the scientific evidence of doing it but ours are still refusing, then it doesn't look good, and it looks like they just want to get rid of what they had bought.

Again why would people who've taken one dose suddenly want to refuse the second dose? It really defies logic. NIAC also say No to mixing vaccines so there is no choice. Anyone who refused it the first time will be assigned an alternative later.
As for SF, the HSE will give them very short shrift if they embroil themselves in public health decision-making. Very bad politics too.

titan18

titan18 wrote: »

They told them there's no choice of vaccine, and yet still the people who refused to take AZ still ended up with getting Pfizer quite quickly after refusing that (and I know people who did this), and all of them will be fully dosed before the people who complied are.

The whole situation around threatening people to take AZ and then giving in immediately to those who still refused is ridiculous. I'm not in that age group but I know people who are and most are furious, and the reason other groups like SF are getting involved is cos those people are turning to them as they've been let down by FF and FG here. Being obstinate and refusing to give them a different second dose or not allowing the choice whilst we can see other countries doing that is making it worse as when other countries see the scientific evidence of doing it but ours are still refusing, then it doesn't look good, and it looks like they just want to get rid of what they had bought.

Its a highly effective vaccine once the second dose is taken. No practical difference to the mRNA. But lets let a noisy uninformed self entitled group delay the whole vaccine program.

The reason we have not taken up option on further AZ vaccines is because of inconsistent supply and the long term security of supply of other options

astrofool

Furze99 wrote: »

Having listened to various experts over past few days inc Colm Henry of HSE today, I'm even more confused.

The general line seems to be that a second dose of an MRNA vaccine after a first dose of AZ would be beneficial. Even Henry above said that.

But that people who've been given a first dose of AZ shouldn't ask for this and that instead of waiting 3 months for a second dose of AZ we might now get it a week or so earlier.

And that people should not decline second dose of AZ and wait for the inevitable dose of an 'mrna booster' because it doesn't suit the HSE plan.

Which makes you wonder - which is more important? Individuals health and concerns or the schemes of the HSE strategists.

Mixed messages all the way.

Just to pick out a post as there's a lot of misinformation about.

There is still ongoing safety and efficacy data being gathered for a mixed dose regimen of vaccines, none of it is approved yet and the countries that are doing it are doing so without manufacturer sign off or sufficient safety and effectiveness data.

It is important to get a full dose regimen of whichever vaccine you have been given, if boosters come, and that's a big IF right now as the current vaccines are so effective, then it might be beneficial to get a different type of vaccine (this could also be the protein based Novavax vaccine, or CureVac or Valneva), but it's only going to be most effective to those who've had the full regimen so far, if you're avoiding the full regimen then the only way to say it is that you're an idiot. All the vaccines have high effectiveness and all prevent severe disease and death. They all have long lasting immunity that covers up to at least 6 months and likely longer. The adenovirus vector vaccines immunity may last longer than mRNA given data so far that they give a better T-Cell reaction, this is still to be proven.

There is no mixed messages coming from NIAC or the HSE, if you choose to follow messages from pundits and those unconnected to the vaccine rollout, that is on you, but there is no cutting corners on individuals health and there is no smarter thing anyone can do than to complete their dosing regimen as it puts them in the best position for the future IF boosters end up being needed (let alone their 90%+ chances of avoiding death and complications due to COVID).

brendanwalsh wrote: »

AZ contract was not renewed by the EU.
That means once this supply is done, Europe is done with adenovector vaccines.

The AZ contract for 300M doses is still in place, AZ will continue to be supplied to Europe until it is fulfilled, there will be supply of AZ forthcoming until October/November this year. The reason Ireland won't take on more is that we will have vaccinated the over 50's already. A lot of European countries will continue using the supply until the 300M contract is complete.

titan18

is_that_so wrote: »

Again why would people who've taken one dose suddenly want to refuse the second dose? It really defies logic. NIAC also say No to mixing vaccines so there is no choice. Anyone who refused it the first time will be assigned an alternative later.
As for SF, the HSE will give them very short shrift if they them embroil themselves in public health decision-making. Very bad politics too.

You might think it defies logic, but I've heard of people not wanting to take the second dose and are going to try and hold out. Experiences for them are that they complied with the first threat and then saw people they know get Pfizer later on after refusing, and it's not like the government/HSE have been very consistent and haven't changed their decisions. You also have other countries recommending people get a different second dose and then Kingston Mills, Luke O'Neill going on the TV/radio recommending it.

titan18

Deleted User wrote: »

Its a highly effective vaccine once the second dose is taken. No practical difference to the mRNA. But lets let a noisy uninformed self entitled group delay the whole vaccine program.

The reason we have not taken up option on further AZ vaccines is because of inconsistent supply and the long term security of supply of other options

Sure, but the perception (whether it's right or wrong) is that it's less effective than the MRNA ones, and our and European politicians have strengthened that perception over the last few months with the rhetoric against it.

is_that_so

titan18 wrote: »

You might think it defies logic, but I've heard of people not wanting to take the second dose and are going to try and hold out. Experiences for them are that they complied with the first threat and then saw people they know get Pfizer later on after refusing, and it's not like the government/HSE have been very consistent and haven't changed their decisions. You also have other countries recommending people get a different second dose and then Kingston Mills, Luke O'Neill going on the TV/radio recommending it.

If people refused the first dose they can be given an alternative at some point but not if they've had one. Not sure what point they are trying to prove. NIAC say no so it doesn't matter what pundits think.

titan18

is_that_so wrote: »

If people refused the first dose they can be given an alternative at some point but not if they've had one. Not sure what point they are trying to prove. NIAC say no so it doesn't matter what pundits think.

Why do NIAC know more than the pundits, or other countries equivalent groups? Why is it safe in Canada or Spain or a bunch of other countries to mix but not here?

is_that_so

titan18 wrote: »

Why do NIAC know more than the pundits, or other countries equivalent groups? Why is it safe in Canada or Spain or a bunch of other countries to mix but not here?

I have no idea but the bottom line is we are here and we are not doing that. Less said about pundits the better!

titan18

is_that_so wrote: »

I have no idea but the bottom line is we are here and we are not doing that. Less said about pundits the better!

We're not doing that now, and this is why people will hold out. NIAC and government have flip flopped on decisions multiple times over the last few months, particularly around who should get AZ. It's not a stretch that they'll change course again

astrofool

titan18 wrote: »

We're not doing that now, and this is why people will hold out. NIAC and government have flip flopped on decisions multiple times over the last few months, particularly around who should get AZ. It's not a stretch that they'll change course again

Just to be clear, there was no flip flopping, data changed or was made available around AZ and the trials being run for AZ that caused the recommendations to change.

It wasn't someone having a change of mind, this was all based on scientific data. This is what should happen rather than an idiot pundit mouthing off to the country based on snippets of information.

titan18

astrofool wrote: »

Just to be clear, there was no flip flopping, data changed or was made available around AZ and the trials being run for AZ that caused the recommendations to change.

It wasn't someone having a change of mind, this was all based on scientific data. This is what should happen rather than an idiot pundit mouthing off to the country based on snippets of information.

Phrase it however you want, they made decisions, and then changed them, and then in some cases, looked like they changed decisions based on political pressure. There's being trials ran on mixing doses and nearly all the information so far is it's safe and in some cases can provide better responses, so same situation still applies on why people might hold off on a second AZ dose as in 2/3 weeks time, there could be data and NIAC could change their decision.

astrofool

titan18 wrote: »

Phrase it however you want, they made decisions, and then changed them, and then in some cases, looked like they changed decisions based on political pressure. There's being trials ran on mixing doses and nearly all the information so far is it's safe and in some cases can provide better responses, so same situation still applies on why people might hold off on a second AZ dose as in 2/3 weeks time, there could be data and NIAC could change their decision.

But you agree that the correct decisions were made at the time they were made based on the data available?

Furze99

is_that_so wrote: »

That's really not going to happen. If you're on one and refuse the second, you're on our own. The quantity of AZ coming in the next month or so should be about enough to cover second doses and any extras will be returned to the EU for donation.

I've asked before and must have missed your reply. Please clarify if you've received a vaccine, one or two doses and of which make.

I ask as you seem to be very keen on promoting the AZ vaccine line.

RobMc59

I've had both AZ jabs ten weeks apart.I had covid in January before the Indian variant had surfaced here in Britain,although the Kent variant had just taken off around that time.

titan18

titan18 wrote: »

Why do NIAC know more than the pundits, or other countries equivalent groups? Why is it safe in Canada or Spain or a bunch of other countries to mix but not here?

We have secured a stable long term supply of an alternative that will get everyone vaccinated and also supply sufficient doses for any potential boosters.

Would you buy a Volkswagen when you already have an brand new Audi and only need one car?

brendanwalsh

Anyone young should still be apprehensive about the risk of clotting even from the second dose.

Unfortunately we just don’t have enough data on second doses.

Why take a chance on a brain aneurysm when you can just hold out and get a better second shot from Pfizer.

Old and young vulnerable were short changed by this disgraceful government.

is_that_so

Furze99 wrote: »

I've asked before and must have missed your reply. Please clarify if you've received a vaccine, one or two doses and of which make.

I ask as you seem to be very keen on promoting the AZ vaccine line.

I'm a fan of whatever is going into my arm and would encourage people to take whatever they are being offered. I think they are all great and effective. Offering an explanation and details on how a vaccine is being used is not promoting it. This is a thread about AZ so it's no great surprise to see people talking about it and giving opinions.

rayfitzharris

There are also people who have had severe adverse side-effects of the AZ first dose.
I know of 2 people, one who had clotting in the foot that began to move up her leg.
The problem is there is no-one to contact when something like this happens, she tried her GP who told her to go to A&E, A&E did not take her seriously and suggested she was the lowest possible priority and was in for a long long wait.
she left A&E after 3+ hours, only to be rang by a consultant in the middle of the night asking her to come back. Thankfully she was ok in the end.

The second (Health care worker, very pro vaccination); had symptoms which were listed on the accompanying leaflet as very serious and to seek medical assistance immediately (severe abdominal pain). She rang her GP who was not seeing anyone due to covid :rolleyes: and to take paracetamol. She was like this for weeks, and took over a month to fully recover.
Her GP is now not recommending the 2nd dose; but at the same time told her NIAC are not recommending anything else, so she is in left in limbo.

She has had to cancel her 2nd dose AZ and as she did was told she wont be contacted about vaccination again
what are these people to do?

Furze99

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm a fan of whatever is going into my arm and would encourage people to take whatever they are being offered. I think they are all great and effective. Offering an explanation and details on how a vaccine is being used is not promoting it. This is a thread about AZ so it's no great surprise to see people talking about it and giving opinions.

Yes... but what vaccine have you been given?

I get a strong impression here that there's several posters strongly advocating for AZ but who have either had a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine themselves. Or those waiting on a vaccine but who if offered an AZ vaccine tomorrow would decline.

One poster is Woody who seems happy enough with the AZ regime and on that. But precious few others.

Extending this, the only senior politician that I've publicly heard that has taken AZ is Michéal Martin. The rest of them Varadkar, Harris, Coveney, Donnelly etc are all on alternatives, yet dictating to us. Ditto Paul Reid, Colm Henry, Hoolahan and you can be sure the rest of them..

Edited to add that I haven't heard any of the latter publicly say what vaccines they've taken. Martin, An Taoiseach is the only significant figure I've heard say what he got. But I think in absence of them telling us and given their age etc., that's what they'd be stuck with.

is_that_so

Furze99 wrote: »

I get a strong impression here that there's several posters strongly advocating for AZ but who have either had a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine themselves. Or those waiting on a vaccine but who if offered an AZ vaccine tomorrow would decline.

One poster is Woody who seems happy enough with the AZ regime and on that. But precious few others.

Extending this, the only senior politician that I've publicly heard that has taken AZ is Michéal Martin. The rest of them Varadkar, Harris, Coveney, Donnelly etc are all on alternatives, yet dictating to us. Ditto Paul Reid, Colm Henry, Hoolahan and you can be sure the rest of them..

I don't advocate one vaccine over another, this is how AZ has been used. I believe this is factual or at the very least a logical evaluation. If it's wrong I am happy to be corrected. The main gripe about AZ, excluding those who opted not to take it, is that 12 week gap.

Furze99

Furze99 wrote: »

Yes... but what vaccine have you been given?

I get a strong impression here that there's several posters strongly advocating for AZ but who have either had a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine themselves. Or those waiting on a vaccine but who if offered an AZ vaccine tomorrow would decline.

One poster is Woody who seems happy enough with the AZ regime and on that. But precious few others.

Extending this, the only senior politician that I've publicly heard that has taken AZ is Michéal Martin. The rest of them Varadkar, Harris, Coveney, Donnelly etc are all on alternatives, yet dictating to us. Ditto Paul Reid, Colm Henry, Hoolahan and you can be sure the rest of them..

Edited to add that I haven't heard any of the latter publicly say what vaccines they've taken. Martin, An Taoiseach is the only significant figure I've heard say what he got. But I think in absence of them telling us and given their age etc., that's what they'd be stuck with.

The leader of the country and the head of the HSE have both taken AZ (fairly high profile individuals).

Most if not all of the others above took what was given for their age.

There probably is abit of the above re: posters, but thats just life.

My view AZ its a bit more risky safety wise especially for young women in particular and when taking first dose.

AZ is a bit slower to be protective, but once you've got a month post second dose they are essentially the same as real world studies in UK suggest.

The biggest problem is most of us dont really understand vaccines and everything is happening so fast.

I'd have lads 20 stone with a number of underlying conditions bragging to me that they got Pfzier as if its a covid shield compared to healthy people with AZ.

Its pure irish behaviour look what im driving, where i live, where im going on holidays.

In a few months it could change like the wind.

At least with AZ the british will study it and study it so we will get plenty of data which so far is good.

Finish your course and chill.

I know in the UK AZ vs. Pfzier is not really a thing.

Some people feel even patriotic taking it.

Like a french man buying a renault.

Also I dont think most of us are done yet with Vaccines.

Booster trials in UK and Ireland are happening at present.

It seems that its likely mixing vaccines will be better.

So once you have got through the safety risk of initial AZ's a Pfzier vaccine booster will be very good efficacy.

However due to safety risks its unlikely other irish with MRNA's already will be given booster AZ.

In the end it will even out or possibly even be an advantage for current AZ vaccinated. [/B]

At the end of day the risk of covid is its novelty to adults.

AZ vaccine means its no longer novel to you with a technology that is a lot more established and understood.

I would have taken any of the vaccines and took first offered.

The only one I was sceptical of was J&J.

I like the idea of two doses to reinforce the virus to the immune system a second time.

Also studies will be scant for J&J (unloved by all countries).

At least the british love AZ.

deeperlearning

Woody79 wrote: »

At least the british love AZ.

I don't think they do.

It's really difficult to find an appointment for a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine in the UK at the moment. The slots are booked solid.

In contrast, you can come whenever you want for an AstraZeneca.

astrofool

67% first doses in the UK were AZ, pressure on Pfizer is because younger groups can't get AZ anymore and they're the main group left to go (luckily we have a good supply of Pfizer in Europe).

Lumen

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Why take a chance on a brain aneurysm when you can just hold out and get a better second shot from Pfizer.

Where do your concerns about brain aneurysms come from?

Timberrrrrrrr

brendanwalsh wrote: »

Anyone young should still be apprehensive about the risk of clotting even from the second dose.

Unfortunately we just don’t have enough data on second doses.

Why take a chance on a brain aneurysm when you can just hold out and get a better second shot from Pfizer.

Old and young vulnerable were short changed by this disgraceful government.

If you're that worried about blood clots from the vaccine then may I suggest you never take paracetamol ever again.

MadYaker

Couldn't give a toss about a miniscule chance of blood clots but AZ is showing to be less and les effective against these variants so I'm happy I'll be getting Moderna or Pfizer, parents are saying they should have waited, I might be able to travel before they will.

Professor Moriarty

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you're that worried about blood clots from the vaccine then may I suggest you never take paracetamol ever again.

Could try an alternative pain killer such as ibuprofen But that depends on where you live. For example, why is there no ibuprofen in the jungle? Because the paracetamol.

MadYaker

MadYaker wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss about a miniscule chance of blood clots but AZ is showing to be less and les effective against these variants so I'm happy I'll be getting Moderna or Pfizer, parents are saying they should have waited, I might be able to travel before they will.

You mean the evidence that it is at least 92% effective following second dose?

duffman13

MadYaker wrote: »

Couldn't give a toss about a miniscule chance of blood clots but AZ is showing to be less and les effective against these variants so I'm happy I'll be getting Moderna or Pfizer, parents are saying they should have waited, I might be able to travel before they will.

Hadn't popped my head in here a while, 2nd dose of AZ on Monday on the back of PHE report around efficacy. I decided to stick with what I'd gotten, given I'd potentially have a higher risk factor from Pfizer given the heart issues in Israel. Both are miniscule to me but AZ seemed like a logical choice for me based on efficacy data available which has only hardened in recent days.

Anyway, you'll likely get to decide given the rumblings but waiting another 6 weeks potentially for a second dose with Pfizer didn't seem the best choice given I work in a public environment and AZ offered me be better protection than waiting.

Furze99

Woody79 wrote: »

The leader of the country and the head of the HSE have both taken AZ (fairly high profile individuals).

Most if not all of the others above took what was given for their age.


I would have taken any of the vaccines and took first offered.

I've read your comments carefully as you are in the AZ vaccine regime and therefore have skin in the game. So I respect that.

I do think there are others here advocating for AZ that been given other vaccines - I've little time for their arguments.

Did Paul Reid take an AZ vaccine, two doses?? He's 57 I believe so in terms of general population he'd be on Pfizer or Moderna. But maybe he got vaccinated early on as part of HSE staff?

I'll quite likely end up getting the second dose of AZ but that does not stop me from stating the obvious. To wit, that people in their 60s in the general population have been chosen as a group by the authorities to dump this vaccine on. I firmly believe that this AZ vaccine would not be in use if there were sufficient supplies of alternatives. So this policy has been applied as much for political and economy reasons as opposed to strict health considerations. I don't like being such a pawn and I suspect neither do many other people in this age cohort. Ultimately the government parties will get a good kicking for this.

is_that_so

Furze99 wrote: »

I've read your comments carefully as you are in the AZ vaccine regime and therefore have skin in the game. So I respect that.

I do think there are others here advocating for AZ that been given other vaccines - I've little time for their arguments.

Did Paul Reid take an AZ vaccine, two doses?? He's 57 I believe so in terms of general population he'd be on Pfizer or Moderna. But maybe he got vaccinated early on as part of HSE staff?

I'll quite likely end up getting the second dose of AZ but that does not stop me from stating the obvious. To wit, that people in their 60s in the general population have been chosen as a group by the authorities to dump this vaccine on. I firmly believe that this AZ vaccine would not be in use if there were sufficient supplies of alternatives. So this policy has been applied as much for political and economy reasons as opposed to strict health considerations. I don't like being such a pawn and I suspect neither do many other people in this age cohort. Ultimately the government parties will get a good kicking for this.

Quite a few of those in the 50s are in the same boat with J&J, no choice. From the people I know they were very keen to be one and done. I also know 60 somethings who couldn't wait to queue up for AZ and the massive uptake suggests the vaccine was never an issue for them.

I don't get why people are looking to blame politicians, they have absolutely no input into the programme. I doubt Paul Reid has much influence either. He's very much a delegator to people who can.

paintinglasses

I am due to get my second dose soon, I'm in my 30s and part of Cohort 4. I got my first dose a few days before they announced AZ was unsuitable for under 60s. I feel like the government and NIAC dragged their feet in making this decision. They had the report from the EMA on the clotting issue for a full week before finally making a decision.

I was told that I would go to the back of the queue, no choice in vaccines etc so I *chose* (nobody forced me) to get AZ as my consultant had put me in the very high risk group. While I'm disappointed in how this vaccine roll out has happened, I will get my second dose and hope the guidance doesn't change (again!). But it is a stressful few weeks after the vaccine so I'm not looking forward to that again.

Chivito550

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

duffman13

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it back to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

I was grand, I had a headache and a bit of brain fog the next day but I hate injections so may have been brought on by myself:D I was absolutely floored after the first one. Not sure on a run the next day, i went out for a run the next two days after and felt very leggy tbh. But I'm not the type to be competing at a national championship

is_that_so

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

Know someone who's had both, no noticeable effect either time. Would be fairly fit if not at your level. They also got done in 13 weeks rather than the original 16 weeks.

robinph

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

My first dose hit me bad for a day, and then other medical numbers were a bit out of whack for another few days but that isn't something that most people would notice in themselves.

My second dose didn't affect me in the slightest, although I'd taken a few days off bothering with any training as much out of laziness as anything. Was zero symptoms at all though. Friend who had each of their doses around the same time as each of mine was hit slightly worse on the first one, and then totally floored for 24 hours + from the the second one.

Not really any way to predict, just hydrate, pop some paracetamol and hope for the best.

Telly

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

I was grand with my second dose as i was with the first. Didnt get any side effects at all with either of them.

deeperlearning

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean the evidence that it is at least 92% effective following second dose?

This is not true.

Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were 60% effective against symptomatic disease from the delta variant.

astrofool

deeperlearning wrote: »

This is not true.

Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were 60% effective against symptomatic disease from the delta variant.

Interesting that you bolded the wrong bit

Effectiveness against hospitalization was 92%, I'm pretty sure the 60% figure you have there is for the efficacy but could be wrong (as I haven't seen updated efficacy figures)

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-effective-against-delta-indian-variant.html

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

Interesting that you bolded the wrong bit

Effectiveness against hospitalization was 92%, I'm pretty sure the 60% figure you have there is for the efficacy but could be wrong (as I haven't seen updated efficacy figures)

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-effective-against-delta-indian-variant.html

It gets confusing as by definition hospitalisation is symptomatic disease
As I understand it the 8% chance of hospitalisation is a subset of the 40% who may get symptomatic disease
I do recall reading that the 60% related to against symptomatic infections alright
Its buried earlier in this thread from last week

deeperlearning

deeperlearning wrote: »

This is not true.

Two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine were 60% effective against symptomatic disease from the delta variant.

So your relying on a study of a few 1000 odd people re: delta.

The sample size is literally tiny.

We heard the same things re lower efficacy in early 2021 from small trials etc.

AZ has slightly higher risk safety issues especially in younger women.

AZ is also a little slower to reach optimum protection (possible reason why lower efficacy in very small trials in short time periods).

That's it basically.

Its suffered some reputational damage from the above but essentially its the same thing a few weeks after your second dose.

Real world data is better than trials etc.

https://scroll.in/latest/995444/covid-19-two-astrazeneca-doses-around-90-effective-in-real-world-analysis-says-uk-health-agency

https://www.aninews.in/news/national/general-news/covid-vaccines-provided-protection-in-over-95-pc-of-vaccinated-healthcare-workers-says-study20210616200420/

Delta variant study in India 95% effective against infections 0 deaths.

Not bad in the biggest covid hotspot in the planet.

Its literally getting better, not worse:D 0 deaths.

India will be another greater study for AZ.

At this stage I'm done with these scariants.

Get to Israeli levels of vaccines 85% and pandemic in a given country is over.