What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

deeperlearning

In the US, only FDA-approved vaccines will be accepted as proof of vaccination in order to be allowed to attend concerts and other events.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/world/bruce-springsteen-broadway-vaccine.html

AstraZeneca will not be accepted as it is not FDA-approved.

Attendees under 16 are exempt but must show proof that they tested negative on a recent coronavirus test.

BonnieSituation

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

Got second AZ dose on Monday.

Only lasting effect was a heavy lead arm on Tuesday and had to sleep with a pillow under it. Tender around the needle point entry for the first day or so.

Other than that nothing. Been as normal since Wednesday.

The first one floored me just as a heads up. So based on me and most mates of my age (mid-30s) they've been almost exactly the same.

volchitsa

Chivito550 wrote: »

Anyone who got the second AZ dose can you let me know what symptoms you had, if any? My second dose is scheduled for next Friday, the day before I run in the National Athletics Championships. I'm worried if I take it I'll be flattened again the next day and will not be able to compete.

However I'm on that irritating Swiftqueue system with no option to text "new" to reschedule, until most others who are receiving a different text, so rescheduling is proving problematic, and my only option they told me is to not show up and I'll then be put back in the queue and get another date after.

It's beyond irritating. I should have had second dose end of May and they pushed it back 4 weeks due to this blood clot hysteria. Now they've pushed it forward to 12 and 8 weeks but my appointment has never been modified. The date really doesn't suit.

My first dose gave me awful symptoms of feeling jaded. What are people's experiences with second dose of AZ?

I felt awful the first time (AZ as well), barely able to drag myself out of bed for the first day, and that was bookended by two nights where I woke up about 4 am with huge fever shakes (not as bad the second night TBF) and that was with taking paracetamol regularly, starting before the symptoms even started, which I'd been advised to do by the doctor who gave me the injection. All over the following morning though.

Second time around, I think I took one paracetamol just in case, but apart from a slightly sore arm, I'd pretty much forgotten I'd even had the jab by the next morning.

I know lots of other people who had two AZ jabs as well (this is in Northern Ireland where AZ was nearly the norm for a long time) and most people who had a reaction the first time had far less or no reaction second time around.

I know fewer people who got Pfizer but anecdotally it seems to be the other way around: more severe results tend to happen with the second dose.

loughside

EU Loses Case Against AstraZeneca

AstraZeneca welcomes Court ruling on supply of its COVID-19 vaccine to EU:

AstraZeneca to-day welcomed the ruling by the Court of First Instance in Brussels. The European Commission had requested 120 million vaccine doses cumulatively by the end of June 2021, and a total of 300 million doses by the end of September 2021 The edge ordered delivery of 802 million closes by 27 September 2021 To date, the Company has supplied more than 70 million doses to the European Union and will substantially exceed 80 2 million doses by the end of June 2021 All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

loughside

The EU have treated AZ appallingly. Trashing their vaccine, abusing their powers by sending in the police to raid their offices (over a commercial dispute!) and finally trying to bully them through the courts.

If I were AZ I'd be looking to get out of dodge asap and only do business with individual member states in the future. You simply don't need customers this difficult.

ddarcy

[url] https://www.marketwatch.com/story/astrazeneca-says-eu-defeated-in-legal-bid-over-vaccine-supplies-2021-06-18?siteid=yhoof2&yptr=yahoo
[/url]

Both are claiming victory.

AstraZeneca AZN, -0.93% AZN, 0.08%, the British-Swedish pharmaceutical group and developer of the world's most used COVID-19 vaccine, had a positive outcome in a court case brought by the European Union over its contract to deliver vaccine to the bloc. The European Commission, the EU's executive body, had requested 120 million vaccine doses cumulatively by the end of June 2021, and a total of 300 million doses by the end of September 2021. AstraZeneca said the judge ordered delivery of 80.2 million doses by 27 September 2021. All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

Reading this is say AZ won.

is_that_so

loughside wrote: »

EU Loses Case Against AstraZeneca

AstraZeneca welcomes Court ruling on supply of its COVID-19 vaccine to EU:

AstraZeneca to-day welcomed the ruling by the Court of First Instance in Brussels. The European Commission had requested 120 million vaccine doses cumulatively by the end of June 2021, and a total of 300 million doses by the end of September 2021 The edge ordered delivery of 802 million closes by 27 September 2021 To date, the Company has supplied more than 70 million doses to the European Union and will substantially exceed 80 2 million doses by the end of June 2021 All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

A sort of a win win but nobody altogether satisfied. As a supplier you really wouldn't recommend them to your worst enemy. TBH the sooner we're shot of them the better.

odyssey06

AZ don't seem too worried about the fines, should meet that amount of doses easily.

The UK-based pharmaceutical fell well short of fulfilling its contract to supply the EU in the first quarter, delivering only 30 million of the 120 million promised. But the court, while finding in favour of the European Commission’s demand for interim measures, ordered only that the company deliver 50 million more doses by the end of September. If the firm fails to do so it would pay a fine of €10 per dose not delivered.

https://www.thejournal.ie/astrazeneca-eu-court-dose-delivery-5470902-Jun2021/

The delivery schedule will be:
15 million doses by 26 July, 20 million by 23 August, 15 million by 27 September.

ddarcy

Lyle wrote: »

This is bollocks.

From the EMA:

https://mobile.twitter.com/EMA_News/status/1404072431766151172

From Cavaleri himself:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/astrazeneca-shots-should-be-halted-over-60s-too-ema-official-2021-06-13/

Well the journalists are standing over it. Not retracting it, etc. I’ve even given it a few days and no change on their part. There is the likelihood that it came from frustration. Cavaleri’s statement reads like he was forced to correct himself. We see it all the time when footballers mess up, etc. So I’ll still say he said it, but again it might have been out of frustration and logistics.

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

AZ don't seem too worried about the fines, should meet that amount of doses easily.

The UK-based pharmaceutical fell well short of fulfilling its contract to supply the EU in the first quarter, delivering only 30 million of the 120 million promised. But the court, while finding in favour of the European Commission’s demand for interim measures, ordered only that the company deliver 50 million more doses by the end of September. If the firm fails to do so it would pay a fine of €10 per dose not delivered.

https://www.thejournal.ie/astrazeneca-eu-court-dose-delivery-5470902-Jun2021/

Why would they? There's a whole world out there waiting for their vaccine. It's paltry but symbolic of an EU win. It would also be the first time they've actually met a target!

loughside

This is the part of the Courts determination that`s the key..
" All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

In other words stand in the queue like everybody else and don`t act the Billy Bigbolloks again.

odyssey06

loughside wrote: »

This is the part of the Courts determination that`s the key..
" All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

It's pretty much what those quoted in the media who were familiar with contract law and UK v Belgian contract law said would happen.

is_that_so

loughside wrote: »

This is the part of the Courts determination that`s the key..
" All other measures sought by the European Commission have been dismissed, and in particular the Court found that the European Commission has no exclusivity or right of priority over all other contracting parties.

In other words stand in the queue like everybody else and don`t act the Billy Bigbolloks again.

The other side of this is an untrustworthy company promising what they couldn't deliver and persistently not owning up to that fact. The HSE have absolutely no trust in them beyond repeating what the company claims about supply lines.

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

The other side of this is an untrustworthy company promising what they couldn't deliver and persistently not owning up to that fact. The HSE have absolutely no trust in them beyond repeating what the company claims about supply lines.

There's lots of companies out there who over-promise, whether it's vaccines, or ventilators, or masks, or syringes or laptops or whatever.
Sure AZ have messed the EU about, over-promising either through genuine over-optimism or trying to pull the wool over their eyes.
But the EU needs to have competence in dealing with such companies and in negotiating contracts that will stand up in court.

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

There's lots of companies out there who over-promise, whether it's vaccines, or ventilators, or masks, or syringes or laptops or whatever.
Sure AZ have messed the EU about, over-promising either through genuine over-optimism or trying to pull the wool over their eyes.
But the EU needs to have competence in dealing with such companies and in negotiating contracts that will stand up in court.

Mostly BS from the shifty CEO of a company who had never made vaccines before. It should never have needed to get to court, none of the other suppliers ended up there and they were upfront with issues they were having. They have all delivered as per their contracts. It's unlikely we'll have a scenario like this again and there are other proven and more reliable solutions. Will be happy when we see the back of them.

deeperlearning

astrofool wrote: »

Interesting that you bolded the wrong bit

Effectiveness against hospitalization was 92%, I'm pretty sure the 60% figure you have there is for the efficacy but could be wrong (as I haven't seen updated efficacy figures)

https://www.astrazeneca.com/media-centre/press-releases/2021/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-effective-against-delta-indian-variant.html

Vaccine effectiveness measures how well a vaccine works at preventing symptomatic disease when given to people in the real work.
Vaccine efficacy is the degree to which a vaccine prevents symptomatic disease under ideal and controlled circumstances in clinical trials.



Preventing hospitalisation is a another matter and, indeed, also an important measure.

According to the study of hospital admissions by Public Health England, the AstraZeneca vaccine is 71 per cent effective at preventing hospital admission after just one dose rising to 92 per cent after two doses.

In contrast, according to PHE, the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine is 94 per cent effective at preventing hospital admission after one dose rising to 96 per cent after two doses.


Note that just one dose of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine (94%) is more effective at preventing hospital admission than two doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine (92%).


https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-vaccines-highly-effective-in-stopping-delta-variant-hospitalisations-1.4593267

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

Mostly BS from the shifty CEO of a company who had never made vaccines before. It's unlikely we'll have a scenario like this again and there are other proven and more reliable solutions. Will be happy when we see the back of them.

Until the next crisis and the EU needs something in a hurry or something in short supply.

And no other company has a shifty CEO?
This speaks to the competence of the EU in contract negotiations if they thought what they had was a contract that gave them priority over other parties.

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

Until the next crisis and the EU needs something in a hurry or something in short supply.

And no other company has a shifty CEO?
This speaks to the competence of the EU in contract negotiations if they thought what they had was a contract that gave them priority over other parties.

Waving a contract about does not excuse AZ at all. It speaks to a very poor supplier and they are the only ones to end up in court. AZ have been poor all the way through this, right from the clinical trial and it is just as well there were other far more competent options. Without Pfizer and Moderna we'd still be doing the over 70s!

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

Waving a contract about does not excuse AZ at all. It speaks to a very poor supplier and they are the only ones to end up in court. AZ have been poor all the way through this, right from the clinical trial and it is just as well there were other far more competent options. Without Pfizer and Moderna we'd still be doing the over 70s!

I'm not talking just about vaccines here.
I'm talking about the next contract.
I think you're entirely missing the point.
It's not about excusing AZ it's that the EU needs to be better at 'defending' itself against companies like that, because it waived a contract and made claims for the contract that contract law experts laughed at.

RobertKK

I think it was a win for the EU in the court case.

Set deadlines for deliveries or €10 per dose fine.

UK sites have to be used for best efforts part of contract.

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm not talking just about vaccines here.
I'm talking about the next contract.
I think you're entirely missing the point.

Why wasn't this an issue with any other company who signed contracts in good faith? We are now nearly seven months on from when this started and still no evidence of their best effort.

Vaccines are the point, they didn't or can't deliver. If you consider it praiseworthy that a so-called vaccine company resorted to legal cover for their ineptitude you don't get what annoyed the EU. They just want their/our vaccines.

odyssey06

is_that_so wrote: »

Well we are now nearly seven months on from when this started and still no evidence of their best effort.

Vaccines are the point, they didn't deliver. If you consider it praiseworthy that a so-called vaccine company resorted to legal cover for their ineptitude you don't get what annoyed the EU. They just want their/our vaccines.

Contracts are the point.
You'll have to highlight where I said it was praiseworthy, because it's nowhere in any of the posts I have made.

It's not about 'praiseworthy' or being 'annoyed', which is an emotional response.
I don't have to 'get' what annoyed the EU because it's neither here nor there to getting the vaccines.
It doesn't matter how annoyed the EU get. It matters what is written in the contracts and what will stand up in court.
Anything else is just background noise and twitter feed.

is_that_so

odyssey06 wrote: »

Contracts are the point.
You'll have to highlight where I said it was praiseworthy, because it's nowhere in any of the posts I have made.

It's not about 'praiseworthy' or being 'annoyed', which is an emotional response.
I don't have to 'get' what annoyed the EU because it's neither here nor there to getting the vaccines.

Well, you are suggesting that the contract trumps all other behaviour in this. Contracts supposedly lead to service, which has been chronically poor. And why was any of this not an issue with any of the other companies?

RobertKK

https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1405903593010610176?s=20

AZ lost.

Bass Reeves

RobertKK wrote: »

I think it was a win for the EU in the court case.

Set deadlines for deliveries or €10 per dose fine.

UK sites have to be used for best efforts part of contract.

Not only that it's an interim funding. It point that the court has issues with the way AZ behaved. It is giving relief to the plaintiff before full case is heard. In any legal case this would be considered bad news to the defendant..

It has issued a finding require AZ to deliver 50 million doses or face a fine of 10 euro/ dose not delivered. It means AZ will have to deliver these doses. The longer term outlook is that AZ will have to compensate the EU for earlier contract failings

Given that the first quarter failing was 90 million even a judgement of 3-4 euro/ dose judgement would be 300-350 million compensation

Marcusm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not only that it's an interim funding. It point that the court has issues with the way AZ behaved. It is giving relief to the plaintiff before full case is heard. In any legal case this would be considered bad news to the defendant..

It has issued a finding require AZ to deliver 50 million doses or face a fine of 10 euro/ dose not delivered. It means AZ will have to deliver these doses. The longer term outlook is that AZ will have to compensate the EU for earlier contract failings

Given that the first quarter failing was 90 million even a judgement of 3-4 euro/ dose judgement would be 300-350 million compensation

The 50m wa sin addition to the 30m already delivered when they made the claim. The newspapers reports that 70.2m have been delivered to date meaning that AZ has only to deliver 9.8m by September and no fine will arise. By all accounts, this is expected to be satisfied by early/mid July. It reflects badly on all the parties but particularly the EU. They should have engaged better.

brickster69

Classic

https://twitter.com/TomGribbin6/status/1405891205121163273

Frank Bullitt

brickster69 wrote: »

Classic

https://twitter.com/TomGribbin6/status/1405891205121163273

I am sure Ursela will really be hurt by that...

brickster69

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

I am sure Ursela will really be hurt by that...

She will be taking Cure Vac to court next

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/curevacs-covid-19-vaccine-misses-efficacy-goal-mass-trial-2021-06-16/

fly_agaric

brickster69 wrote: »

Classic

Boris is Boss I'm a Boris Tank Top. Bots won't be responded to. Professional Horseman. Gay and Proud. Border Collie lover and have 3 Elsie, Max and Goose.

Oh my!

is_that_so

brickster69 wrote: »

She will be taking Cure Vac to court next

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/curevacs-covid-19-vaccine-misses-efficacy-goal-mass-trial-2021-06-16/

Doubtful, the science failed here. At 47% it may have a hard time getting approval.

brickster69

brickster69 wrote: »

Classic

https://twitter.com/TomGribbin6/status/1405891205121163273

The German vaccine? I presume they mean the one with the best efficacy and most secure supply chains?

Good to see you back shilling for the brexiteer lobby brickster. Even when they display their rank ignorance for all to see

deeperlearning

brickster69 wrote: »

She will be taking Cure Vac to court next

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/curevacs-covid-19-vaccine-misses-efficacy-goal-mass-trial-2021-06-16/

Nasty, jingoistic, misogynistic, moronic.

So do **** off, brickster69, you utter gob****e!

Laughing at a vaccine's lack of effectiveness because it's German is really stooping low.

loughside

Fond O`Lying is a vindictive hostile waste of space. Offloaded from German politics where she was several times a complete and utterly failure hated by many within her own party.
Appointed in the tawdry agreement between Macron & Merckel and loaded on to the Brussels gravy train for failed European politicians where she is completely out of her depth. At least Juncker was an amiable old sod, she is just vile. Macron, Merkel & VDL have tried their hardest to destroy benevolent AstraZeneca out of spite and envy.

All credit to AstraZeneca for facing them out.

Wolf359f

loughside wrote: »

Fond O`Lying is a vindictive hostile waste of space. Offloaded from German politics where she was several times a complete and utterly failure hated by many within her own party.
Appointed in the tawdry agreement between Macron & Merckel and loaded on to the Brussels gravy train for failed European politicians where she is completely out of her depth. At least Juncker was an amiable old sod, she is just vile. Macron, Merkel & VDL have tried their hardest to destroy benevolent AstraZeneca out of spite and envy.

All credit to AstraZeneca for facing them out.

I'm sorry, you're going to have to explain that.
When EU and particularly non-EU countries paused AZ due to clotting issues, certain groups starting saying it was all political, blaming it on Brexit etc.... Despite the first country to pause it, was not even an EU country.
I really don't follow the spite and envy comment.

loughside

brickster69 wrote: »

She will be taking Cure Vac to court next

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/curevacs-covid-19-vaccine-misses-efficacy-goal-mass-trial-2021-06-16/

This is especially pleasing since the German CureVac vaccine has just been proven, yesterday, to be only 47% effective, less than half that of AZ.



The EU have embarrassingly bought 400 million doses of it [Snigger!]


You just couldn`t make it up - the EU strikes again!

Pleased.. In a pandemic..

Wolf359f

loughside wrote: »

This is especially pleasing since the German CureVac vaccine has just been proven, yesterday, to be only 47% effective, less than half that of AZ.



The EU have embarrassingly bought 400 million doses of it [Snigger!]


You just couldn`t make it up - the EU strikes again!

There is a difference between ordering and buying.
They order 400 million on condition it's an effective vaccine and approved.
It not being effective means it won't be approved, which means it won't be purchased.

sameoldname

Deleted User wrote: »

Pleased.. In a pandemic..

He's a desperate unionist troll who registered on an Irish forum to presumably extract some pleasure from trying to annoy some people down here. I'd pity him rather than respond to anything he posts.

Bass Reeves

loughside wrote: »

This is especially pleasing since the German CureVac vaccine has just been proven, yesterday, to be only 47% effective, less than half that of AZ.



The EU have embarrassingly bought 400 million doses of it [Snigger!]


You just couldn`t make it up - the EU strikes again!

Because the EU and the US put massive funding in place for vaccine development we are now seeing the benefits of it. Yes there will be vaccines that fail, at present there is 5-6 successful vaccines.

When SARS hit in the early noughties it was bought under control by sanitation and isolation measures. However 2-3 companies developed vaccines that were not needed. They list hundreds of million of dollars. Pharma companies looked for development costs to be underwritten this time as once bitten twice shy

loughside

loughside wrote: »

Fond O`Lying is a vindictive hostile waste of space. Offloaded from German politics where she was several times a complete and utterly failure hated by many within her own party.
Appointed in the tawdry agreement between Macron & Merckel and loaded on to the Brussels gravy train for failed European politicians where she is completely out of her depth. At least Juncker was an amiable old sod, she is just vile. Macron, Merkel & VDL have tried their hardest to destroy benevolent AstraZeneca out of spite and envy.

All credit to AstraZeneca for facing them out.

That auld cesspit the house of Lords where half its members snore live on camera is where I'd send Astrazenica
AstraZeneca lost the Belgium court battle
They will now be charged €10 for every dose they don't deliver on time
That will soften their cough

robinph

loughside wrote: »

This is especially pleasing since the German CureVac vaccine has just been proven, yesterday, to be only 47% effective, less than half that of AZ.



The EU have embarrassingly bought 400 million doses of it [Snigger!]


You just couldn`t make it up - the EU strikes again!

The UK also ordered 50 million doses of Curevac.

robinph

Marine Layer wrote: »

AstraZeneca lost the Belgium court battle
They will now be charged €10 for every dose they don't deliver on time
That will soften their cough

They just need to come up with a further 10 million doses by the end of September to meet the order, think they will manage that.

robinph

robinph wrote: »

They just need to come up with a further 10 million doses by the end of September to meet the order, think they will manage that.

They will now
Cough softened,by the court

gozunda

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Could try an alternative pain killer such as ibuprofen But that depends on where you live. For example, why is there no ibuprofen in the jungle? Because the paracetamol.

True enough though I've heard that two aspirins in your hand are worth one in the birch.

faceman

I was wondering when we’d start hearing of this

https://flip.it/bQKcKp

AZ isn’t an approved in the US and when travel to the US recommences I’ve wondered what it will mean for people in the EU who got the AZ vaccine. While I don’t think they’ll be barred from travelling, given vaccine discrimination is permitted in the US, we may seem more of these restrictions in the major cities.

Not all vaccines are created equally I guess

loughside

loughside wrote: »

This is especially pleasing since the German CureVac vaccine has just been proven, yesterday, to be only 47% effective, less than half that of AZ.



The EU have embarrassingly bought 400 million doses of it [Snigger!]


You just couldn`t make it up - the EU strikes again!

The most effective vaccine with the most secure supply, Pfizer BioNtech. The German company, BioNtech partnered with Pfizer because they had the technical and logistical capabilities required. Oxford on the other hand partnered with Astra Zeneca, a company with no history of vaccine production, because Britain First

robinph

Will only be temporary. By the time people can freely travel the world again nobody will care what version of a vaccine you have had, least of all any individual venues setting brand requirements. You'll get asked at immigration potentially, but doubt that would be more than just if you have been vaccinated to whatever standard your home country asks for.

odyssey06

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The most effective vaccine with the most secure supply, Pfizer BioNtech. The German company, BioNtech partnered with Pfizer because they had the technical and logistical capabilities required. Oxford on the other hand partnered with Astra Zeneca, a company with no history of vaccine production, because Britain First

Who should they have partnered with, with no risk of falling foul of eg US export bans, who were interested at the time.

The largest vaccine companies all failed with their own vaccines.

Jansen have had plant issues.
Moderna quantites very small.