What exactly is happening with AstraZeneca?

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672899#Comment_117672899

It's actually an interesting article, covers the whole history of it in one place.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117674687#Comment_117674687

I thought so, a very balanced article of the way things were.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117672894#Comment_117672894

As is myocarditis in MRNA vaccines.

Every vaccine has side effects, hence why 5-10% of adult population will probably not take any covid vaccine, believing covid will be less severe than any vaccine.

Some might be right, most won't.

Many people who dont want a vaccine have a mistrust of government, are poorly educated and are economically disadvantaged. We have to engage with these people, not post dramatic soundbites on social media.

Nobody has died of AZ vaccine or J&J vaccine in ireland despite millions of doses given out.

Circa 7,000 people have died of covid on this island.

A child a few weeks old in NI is in ICU with covid at present.

Vaccines save lives.

AZ on island of Ireland has probably saved thousands of lives in Ireland in 2021.

Six children and young people under 19 now in NI hospitals with coronavirus - Belfast Live

brickster69

It all seems to be coming out

https://www.euronews.com/next/2021/07/29/astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-blood-clot-risk-similar-to-pfizer-spanish-study-finds?utm_source=flipboard&utm_campaign=feeds_health&utm_medium=referral

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117675092#Comment_117675092

Sorry but no. Myocarditis is not that serious, it resolves spontaneously in many cases. CVST doesn't at all — it's a life threatening condition.

I see 1 moderatly serious side effect of mRNA vaccines with incidence of 1 in 1,000,000 doses (300 cases in 300M doses).

And then I see 3 very serious side effects of AZ vaccine (adenovirus vector) with incidence of 1 in 100,000, 1 in 200,000 and 1 in 250,000 respectively.

There is a HUGE difference between the two. Downplaying the AZ side effects or comparing them to mRNA is a logical fallacy (and likely a demagoguery).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679332#Comment_117679332

19-year-old hospitalized in ICU days after getting second Pfizer vaccine - The Jerusalem Post (jpost.com)

As is blood clots. Blood clot cases in ireland but nobody has died.

Spanish clinicians dont share your social media claims.

Recent spanish study Pfzier/AZ results, both have similar elevated risk of blood clots after first doses. No risk after second.

AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine blood clot risk 'similar' to Pfizer, Spanish study finds | Euronews

All vaccines in EMA are safe and effective.

No absolutes with regards to safety and efficacy for all vaccines.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679460#Comment_117679460

Nonsense. In black and white. 1 side effect for Pfizer vs several for AZ.

EMA Pfizer safety - 07 Public Safety Update_COMIRNATY_14 July 2021 (europa.eu)

EMA AZ safety - 06 Public Safety Update_VAXZEVRIA_14 July 2021 (europa.eu)

The risk of side effects with AZ is an order of magnitude higher and there are multiple associations already registered and added to the leaflet.

Yes, the vaccine is generally safe but mRNA is an order of magnitude safer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679542#Comment_117679542

"the vaccine is generally safe". I will take that😉

brickster69

As 6 million AZ doses sitting in fridges in Germany. Bundestag President Wolfgang Schauble said: "I cannot understand the lack of willingness to get vaccinated, that makes me extremely sad."

They are now giving Pfizer as a second dose following AZ first dose and the young people won't touch it because of the blood clot issue which is ironically the exact same issue that Pfizer has.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117681384#Comment_117681384

Can you back that up with a reputable study?

Especially one showing that two doses of AZ fares worse against the Delta variant than a single dose of J&J?

And isn't J&J accepted?

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117681384#Comment_117681384

Everyone fell for the lies, slowly slowly it will all come to light.

Tippbhoy1

I’ve seen a few articles around this week about how AZ might “have to start charging more” or they’re thinking of getting out of the vaccines. Teeing up John Bull and co to start moving away from their “not for profit” vaccine and charging more as per the original plans, as written in the contracts. AZ get to decide when to declare the pandemic is over and then the price goes up. All going to plan now as they move focus to poorer nations and start flogging boosters to the likes of Boris and co.

It’s been a rough 6 months for them but looks like it’s going to pay off in the long term. Of course this will be sold to the gullible that poor AZ have to make a few quid now after the battering they took, when this was the plan all along. Company handed IP from publicly funded research, no capability of any description, plough along like a bunch of amateurs for a while using the defence of giving it away to cover up their lies and incompetence, eventually get some competence, sell it at a profit to the poor. Brass neck does pay off it seems.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117681785#Comment_117681785

AZ caused their own problems with the clinical trail data mess-ups and they have not applied for approval in a country where it will probably never be used.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117681384#Comment_117681384

The FDA hasn't approved it yet because AZ officially haven't applied. It's due to be applied for in Q2.

As for vaccine passports for entering the US, I highly doubt that will be implemented for various reasons.

Any travel restrictions will be on a country by country basis and not on an individual level based on vaccine status.

If they ever did implement it, and didn't approve AZ (didn't recognize it as a valid for passport purposes), well then there would be vast numbers of Canadiana, Mexicians, Australians, Indians, Europeans etc... who wouldn't be able to visit the US. Not a chance they would ban them.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682108#Comment_117682108

1. Yes banning people from countries is different than banning individuals based on vaccine status. There hasn't been a whiff of this from the US Government.
2. US companies are not the US government. Some US companies are not allowing unvaccined staff back to the office, one is going to lay off any unvacinated staff.... again that's a US company, no sign of the US government following suite. (most they seems to be discussing is unvaccinated federal employees will need to be tested weekly)
3. Sorry I mean H2, second half of the year, not Q2

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679950#Comment_117679950

The young people won't touch the Pfizer?

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682235#Comment_117682235

No AZ

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682407#Comment_117682407

Ok, thought so.

I suspect that's why the plans to administer AZ here to the under 30s was quietly abandoned in favour of mRNA and a limited stock of J&J.

The eagerness of young people registering for mRNA wouldn't certainly not be there if it were AZ they were registering for.

brickster69

Maybe no need for a AZ booster at the moment

https://www.valuewalk.com/astrazeneca-unsure-need-covid-19-booster/

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682474#Comment_117682474

Yep, the HSE just lumped the AZ on the 60-69 age cohort - take it or leave, go to back of queue etc. A phrase that will haunt Varadkar and Coveney at next election.

beazee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682428#Comment_117682428

The 7 vs 14 day for Pfizer is a non-issue.

Pfizer states it's 35 days from the first dose with the following dose at wk3 or wk4.

Ireland went with four weeks between doses thus it's one week away from 35 days.

Europe goes with three weeks in-between the doses thus two weeks to make up 35 days.

RavenBea17b

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117679332#Comment_117679332

Excuse me, myocarditis is a serious illness. Downplaying it by saying it is not that serious is not helpful. If not treated properly, it can cause some real issues.

https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/conditions/myocarditis

airy fairy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682569#Comment_117682569

Boo hoo.

That age cohort got the vaccine that was available at the time.

Funnily, not many seem to have issues about it, only you.

Which brings me to question, why on earth you ever took the vaccine in the first place.

Don't answer that btw. I don't need the copy and paste psalm again.

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682774#Comment_117682774

I didn't want to downplay it. But it's true that it spontaneously resolved in many cases. You may have had it and didn't know.

Whereas CVST is a medical emergency and life threatening condition. Very unlikely to resolve itself.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117684481#Comment_117684481

That's the thing, anything involving the heart sounds scary until people realize that a lot of common illnesses are also accompanied by myocarditis. It's the rare severe cases that need to get immediately help.

is_that_so

Financials in for AZ and Pfizer and some internal talk in AZ that they will get out of the vaccine business they've only just got into. Stark difference in delivery totals for both companies.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/pfizer-proves-too-potent-for-astrazeneca-1.4635228

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117689784#Comment_117689784

I doubt they had planned to make much money having agreed to supply it at cost initially. Pfizer is about 10 times the price per dose.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117682774#Comment_117682774

Myocarditis can be serious but not in every case and is rarely life threatening. The particular clot linked to AZ is always serious and life threatening.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

"People who have received the AstraZeneca jab may not need a booster because they should be protected against Covid for longer, the firm's chief executive has said.

Pascal Soriot suggested that the Oxford jab may elicit a stronger T-cell response than the vaccines produced by US companies Pfizer and Moderna.

The firm is waiting for further data which may prove that millions of older Britons given the AZ jab do not need another dose, he said.

Ministers are drawing up plans to offer booster shots to 32 million people amid evidence that the protection offered by Covid vaccines gradually wanes.

"We hope that the Oxford-AstraZeneca will provide longer-term protection," Mr Soriot told the Daily Mail.

"The science so far suggests that our vaccine provides a strong T-cell response, which I hope means its effects will last longer. So it looks good, but we don't yet know for sure whether you will need a booster. Time will tell."

Scientists believe T-cells, a type of white blood cell, may provide longer-lasting immunity to Covid than antibodies. In April, a Birmingham University study found that the AstraZeneca jab appeared elicit a stronger T-cell response than either Pfizer or Moderna.

Meanwhile, data collected by Johnson & Johnson, whose vaccine is based on the same technology as the AZ jab, showed it "provides years of protection", Mr Soriot said. 

Pfizer has admitted that the effectiveness of its MRNA vaccine steadily declines over time, dropping to about 84 per cent for vaccinated people about four to six months after getting their second dose.

Conclusive data comparing the jabs is expected by October or November. By that time, however, the Government's booster programme is expected be up and running.

Third doses are set to be offered to 32 million Britons, with an average of almost 2.5million third doses a week, starting in the first week of September. 

All adults aged 50 and over, as well as the immuno-suppressed, will be offered the booster jabs. The campaign could start as soon as September 6, which would see the rollout completed by early December if it goes to plan."

brickster69

So the ones that were made to give to the world at no profit actually last the longest and are more efficient than the others. Yet the Eu spent months rubbishing it and ordered 1.8 billion Pfizer which look like they only last 6 months and cost 10 times more each.

No Fu##ing wonder the German army ended up with broomsticks for rifles.

brickster69

Here is another one Professor Macron said AZ was "quassi effective " in older people so refused to use it on older people. Other lemmings followed him and now it turns out that Pfizer runs out in 6 months and the ones who got vaccinated first were the most vulnerable to serious injury, just as Delta turns up. That is not forgetting creating a massive hesitancy against the vaccine around the world also.

But the best part is that Bojo the clown extended the doses for Pfizer to 3 months which actually extended Pfizers effiacy and durability and also increased the antibody in those that took it.

brickster69

And here is the best one. Many of those countries will go into further restrictions and lock downs and everyone will look towards the UK and think " how did we fu## up so much "

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717327#Comment_117717327

You may want to read the op again. You look to have skipped over some words:

"People who have received the AstraZeneca jab may not need a booster because they should be protected against Covid for longer, the firm's chief executive has said.

Pascal Soriot suggested that the Oxford jab may elicit a stronger T-cell response than the vaccines produced by US companies Pfizer and Moderna.

The firm is waiting for further data which may prove that millions of older Britons given the AZ jab do not need another dose, he said.

Ministers are drawing up plans to offer booster shots to 32 million people amid evidence that the protection offered by Covid vaccines gradually wanes.

"We hope that the Oxford-AstraZeneca will provide longer-term protection," Mr Soriot told the Daily Mail.

"The science so far suggests that our vaccine provides a strong T-cell response, which I hope means its effects will last longer. So it looks good, but we don't yet know for sure whether you will need a booster. Time will tell."

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717510#Comment_117717510

Point taken, but at least he is not saying that they will need a booster like everyone else is. Why are they saying a booster is needed and why is Israel giving 3rd doses out when it has not been approved. Obviously they are concerned a bit that the vulnerable people who got jabbed first are more at risk now after the real world data has come out.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717549#Comment_117717549

The real world data coming out of Israel doesn't line up with the rest of the world.

Even Pfizer was debating with Israel if they went ahead to call it a booster and not a third jab etc...

Plenty of people in the Pfizer trials are 12+ months from their first jab. If there was an issue, it would be seen in them first.

Who is saying a booster is needed?

brickster69

Also there is no real world data coming out for AZ because it only went into Europe at the start. Saying that most countries never used it at the start because they thought it was not very good.

The UK data that came out this week showed that it was far higher than Israel's figures and actually better than Pfizers but again the Uk had a 12 week gap between doses for AZ and the others followed later. So it is going to take another couple of months to see what that real world data shows.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717577#Comment_117717577

Everyone is saying a booster is needed. It is needed because some vaccines are not as good as they were against other variants, nothing to do with it is a bad vaccine or anything. All of them will probably be good with one and not so good against another.

You can just disregard any data from 12 months ago because Delta never even existed then.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717578#Comment_117717578

Most countries followed the manufacturer's guidance on the dosing gap between AZ shots of 12 weeks. It was nothing to do with 'following' the UK. They followed the science.

Comparing how one vaccine in one country based on certain demographics vs a different vaccine in another country in another demographic is not a valid comparison.

All you can do is compare the same vaccine in the same demographic vs 2 different strains. Almost all countries saw a modest reduction in efficacy, Israel saw a dramatic drop, which is why people have questioned the data.

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717633#Comment_117717633

Incorrect AZ could not recommend 12 weeks for AZ because it was only given emergency approval based on 4 weeks. Once countries bought the vaccines they could do whatever they wanted. So the UK itself decided on 12 weeks probably because Oxford invented the damned thing and knew a lot more about it than Astra Zeneca ever would. Same thing happened with Pfizer they only trialed it for 4 weeks to get it approved quicker.

Israel is one of the best scientific powerhouses of the world. If they do a test and publish the data then straight away started giving third jabs to the most vulnerable people in society you can be well assured they know what the situation is, don't you worry.

Once again Pfizer is a great vaccine just on this occasion it is not as good against this strain as it was against the others.Same will happen others no doubt.

brickster69

Saying that, the vaccine was invented before Delta even existed so it would be quite hard to make something work against it anyway. For them to work at all is a miracle in a way.

Pete_Cavan

"We hope that the Oxford-AstraZeneca will provide longer-term protection," Mr Soriot told the Daily Mail. 

"The science so far suggests that our vaccine provides a strong T-cell response, which I hope means its effects will last longer. So it looks good, but we don't yet know for sure whether you will need a booster. Time will tell."

That's a lot of hoping in there. It's irrelevant anyway as the article clearly states the UK will be giving boosters before there is conclusive proof of this so there is no saving to the UK, they are buying the boosters anyway. Other countries will give boosters too and will be in the same boat as regards lockdowns.

Can you provide a link to show that "Pfizer runs out in 6 months"? There seems to be a slight drop after 6 months but the Pfizer vaccine seems to generally be stronger and may remain so even with a drop in efficacy;

https://www.ft.com/content/5a24d39a-a702-40d2-876d-b12a524dc9a5

Check out Table 1 in the Public Health England COVID-19 Vaccine Surveillance Reports, indicates Pfizer preforming better

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-vaccine-surveillance-report

Also, it's noticeable how you stopped posting links to the UK daily cases in the UK Response thread when they started going back up.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717737#Comment_117717737

You're mentioning emergency approval. They didn't have emergency approval in the EU. Which from your posting 'other countries' is aimed at. It was approved in the EU with a dosing gap between 4 and 12 weeks. That's based upon data from AZ. The EMA would not approve a 12 week gap without recommendation from AZ and the trial data (which showed a better efficacy with a 12 week gap)

brickster69

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNbs4LCgrcY

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.03.21261496v1?__cf_chl_jschl_tk__=pmd_e2ea998b4d62d17a2afd596b60deedbd98393a3c-1628225627-0-gqNtZGzNAfijcnBszQfi

The guy above explains better than i can.

From one of the main channels on Israeli news

https://twitter.com/Lantidiplomatic/status/1423734253783814152

The Israel report was published today but the figures from last week were

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717924#Comment_117717924

This is true my mistake.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717985#Comment_117717985

Did Israel get a bad Pfizer batch in April?

CI range is massive, makes no sence, apart from if there was very few second doses given in April, but why then would the CI among infection and symptomatic disease be tighter?

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117718098#Comment_117718098

No idea, but i am sure they know what is going on more than us.

Wolf359f

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117718132#Comment_117718132

But you're quoting that as a source despite not knowing what it means?

There's reports worldwide Israel data is a little skewed or suspect, but because it looks bad and they didn't use AZ, that doesn't warrant a further look from you?

I think the only posting that pic online is the infamous Eric Feigl-Ding, that should make ya pause and look and see. But obviously not if he agrees with you. Feic science etc...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117717985#Comment_117717985

Vaccination started with the most vulnerable who are the population with the highest risk of not having an effective dose and also having a vaccine escape due to weaker immune systems. Data is only any use if it’s based on similar populations vaccinated in each month

brickster69

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117718185#Comment_117718185

The above poster asked me if Israel got a bad batch in April i said i don't know. I am not a vaccine tester for the bloody Israeli health ministry you know.

The image is taken from the Health ministry of Israels recent report, it is not some made up conspiracy sh##e. Read it for yourself

https://www.gov.il/BlobFolder/reports/vaccine-efficacy-safety-follow-up-committee/he/files_publications_corona_two-dose-vaccination-data.pdf

McGiver

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117684503#Comment_117684503

Exactly, its not a serious stuff compared to the AZ side effects that are lethal (at least 1 of the 3).

The Guardian: Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine: rare blood clot syndrome has high mortality rate.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/11/oxfordastrazeneca-vaccine-rare-blood-clot-syndrome-has-high-mortality-rate