Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

runawaybishop

JoChervil wrote: »

But if vaccine is so effective, why there were 8,811 new cases in Israel yesterday, country of 9mln people with 60% of them vaccinated with the first dose and 30% with the second? Not mentioning that also 7% at least should have acquired natural immunity at this stage?

Israel sees 60% drop in hospitalizations for age 60-plus 3 weeks after 1st shot -- from the timesofisrael. All reports show a huge decline in hospital cases from vaccinated groups.

OwenM

polesheep wrote: »

Does it state how many were tested? Could there be a lot more asymptomatic cases than previously? Early days I know, but very interesting.

I'm just going on the content originally linked: https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55706855

celt262

OwenM wrote: »

This: "Israeli Ministry of Health (MoH) figures show 531 over-60s, out of almost 750,000 fully vaccinated, tested positive for coronavirus (0.07%)."

suggests to me that transmission is being suppressed as well, if true then the pubs will open............

As long as you get a substantial meal...

OwenM

celt262 wrote: »

As long as you get a substantial meal...

I wish there was a thumbs up emoji I could use here..........

podgeandrodge

OwenM wrote: »

This: "Israeli Ministry of Health (MoH) figures show 531 over-60s, out of almost 750,000 fully vaccinated, tested positive for coronavirus (0.07%)."

suggests to me that transmission is being suppressed as well, if true then the pubs will open............

celt262 wrote: »

As long as you get a substantial meal...

Yes, but remember, it needs to be cooked on the premises or it does not have the same efficacy.

OwenM

OwenM wrote: »

This: "Israeli Ministry of Health (MoH) figures show 531 over-60s, out of almost 750,000 fully vaccinated, tested positive for coronavirus (0.07%)."

suggests to me that transmission is being suppressed as well, if true then the pubs will open............

Oh I'd say if that was to happen here the goalposts would be swiftly changed again to keep them shut.

runawaybishop

celt262 wrote: »

As long as you get a substantial meal...

That has to be the dumbest argument ever. It's to limit alcohol consumption. Seriously like.

Stheno

bb1234567 wrote: »

I am a bit perplexed looking at Israel at the moment. Hard to know what's going on. They also have the absolute strictest control measures in place against COVID in the entire world according the global stringency index, higher than any European country. Should become a bit clearer soon.

There is huge non compliance amongsth the ultra Orthodox community there

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-55879745

pc7

Just for those saying people who want to go on foreign holidays are selfish, then I am selfish. I have stuck to all the restrictions and guidelines, asked of us. I lost money last year on holidays that were cancelled and the hassle of chasing airlines for refunds in some cases took months. But I sucked it up, put on the green jersey etc. I did staycations and they cost a fortune and really weren't a break or a holiday as it was a timed dinner, swim etc. but we used our money in Ireland to support local.

I didn't party at Christmas, I was even nervous of having my parents over Christmas day. But spaced us out, kept the windows open, bleached everything to an inch of its life, had an air purifier on. I have done all that has been asked.

We usually go away a few times a year, we work hard for it, we don't gamble or smoke, don't drink much, maybe go out once every two months for dinner if even, holidays are something we like and use our money for that. So I was really hopeful coming into this year that there might be a chance to get away this summer. What with vaccines etc. now fine it it gets to this summer and there are no green lists etc. and we can't go we won't. But I just wanted some semblance of 'hope' that we could have a bit of normality for 'our' life. I still feel Tony was wrong to say what he did, he could have managed expectations by saying its too far, not looking good, but to come out that way when he really doesn't know yet isn't good for people. Look at the figures and graphs the majority are doing their bit but its constant negativity and 'we are worried' there is only so long people can listen to that.

The tone of some posters that disagree with people who would like to go on holidays is a bit much, everyone's circumstances are different, we all have things that keep us going or that we like. Yes, its a pandemic, yes its a first world problem, yes I'll suck it up and wont go if that's the guidance, but I think Tony et al really need to start giving us something to work for.

cannotlogin

I think what's actually happening now is the people who stuck to all the guidelines were careful at Christmas are finding now very difficult & are sick of it, whereas a lot of people who enjoyed their Christmas celebrations are finding easier because they enjoyed December & has some freedom.

If we could only all do the same thing at the same time and restrict everything at once, we would get out of it quicker. It's not easy.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

pc7 wrote: »

Just for those saying people who want to go on foreign holidays are selfish, then I am selfish. I have stuck to all the restrictions and guidelines, asked of us. I lost money last year on holidays that were cancelled and the hassle of chasing airlines for refunds in some cases took months. But I sucked it up, put on the green jersey etc. I did staycations and they cost a fortune and really weren't a break or a holiday as it was a timed dinner, swim etc. but we used our money in Ireland to support local.

I didn't party at Christmas, I was even nervous of having my parents over Christmas day. But spaced us out, kept the windows open, bleached everything to an inch of its life, had an air purifier on. I have done all that has been asked.

We usually go away a few times a year, we work hard for it, we don't gamble or smoke, don't drink much, maybe go out once every two months for dinner if even, holidays are something we like and use our money for that. So I was really hopeful coming into this year that there might be a chance to get away this summer. What with vaccines etc. now fine it it gets to this summer and there are no green lists etc. and we can't go we won't. But I just wanted some semblance of 'hope' that we could have a bit of normality for 'our' life. I still feel Tony was wrong to say what he did, he could have managed expectations by saying its too far, not looking good, but to come out that way when he really doesn't know yet isn't good for people. Look at the figures and graphs the majority are doing their bit but its constant negativity and 'we are worried' there is only so long people can listen to that.

The tone of some posters that disagree with people who would like to go on holidays is a bit much, everyone's circumstances are different, we all have things that keep us going or that we like. Yes, its a pandemic, yes its a first world problem, yes I'll suck it up and wont go if that's the guidance, but I think Tony et al really need to start giving us something to work for.

I don't think anyone said people who would like to go on a holiday are selfish. Anymore than people who would like to have a party are selfish. It's the people who, despite being asked or told by NPHET and the Govt not to do these things because it's spreading the virus, decide they 'need' a holiday in Torremolinas or a party for their 40th birthday who are selfish and spoilt.

PmMeUrDogs

Everyone giving out about people wanting holidays, you'd swear none of us have family abroad.

I've not seen my baby nephew or my sibling in God only knows how long, so yes, a "holiday" to go see my family is incredibly important to me - more important than seeing any of my friends, going to the pub, going for dinner, shopping, beyond my 5km, gym, etc. Foreign travel is top of my agenda so I can see my sibling and nephew.

celt262

runawaybishop wrote: »

That has to be the dumbest argument ever. It's to limit alcohol consumption. Seriously like.

Really i though it was to help stop you getting the virus :pac:

Plumbthedepths

I don't get all the hate about Spain.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

PmMeUrDogs wrote: »

Everyone giving out about people wanting holidays, you'd swear none of us have family abroad.

I've not seen my baby nephew or my sibling in God only knows how long, so yes, a "holiday" to go see my family is incredibly important to me - more important than seeing any of my friends, going to the pub, going for dinner, shopping, beyond my 5km, gym, etc. Foreign travel is top of my agenda so I can see my sibling and nephew.

Again, no one said that desire is selfish.

mloc123

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I don't get all the hate about Spain.

Schools are closed for... 6 weeks? now. People need something to blame and direct their anger at instead

Plumbthedepths

I see Martin will be heading on an essential trip to present an elderly gentleman a bowl of weeds for Paddy's Day. If only someone invented a means to interact on the internet, ah well.
Do as I say not as I do.

Plumbthedepths

Dawson Future Wisecrack wrote: »

Again, no one said that desire is selfish.

Nah, just a first world problem. Condescending and provocative.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I see Martin will be heading on an essential trip to present an elderly gentleman a bowl of weeds for Paddy's Day. If only someone invented a means to interact on the internet, ah well.
Do as I say not as I do.

Yes I agree. Really bad move by Martin. But then he's an old school Fine Failer, straight out of the Bertie Ahern camp.

eigrod

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I see Martin will be heading on an essential trip to present an elderly gentleman a bowl of weeds for Paddy's Day. If only someone invented a means to interact on the internet, ah well.
Do as I say not as I do.

Given the economic challenges facing the Country over the next decade or more as a result of Covid, it is absolutely an essential trip imo. Our Taoiseach, no matter who she/he is should always take up that invitation- it’s value is incalculable.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Nah, just a first world problem. Condescending and provocative.

I agree that sneering at anyone who complains about anything other than world hunger as having a first world problem is annoying. But the point most people are making on here is that acting as if a holiday abroad is a need, and that not having one is a huge deprivation, is a bit annoying when everyone is in the same boat and at the moment we're trying to save lives.

froog

wow mickey is actually going to washington? what a dumb move. utterly tone deaf.

Plumbthedepths

eigrod wrote: »

Given the economic challenges facing the Country over the next decade or more as a result of Covid, it is absolutely an essential trip imo. Our Taoiseach, no matter who she/he is should always take up that invitation- it’s value is incalculable.

Disagree completely, we are in the middle of a pandemic where the population is threatened with a fine and being almost labelled as killers for wanting to go aboard.
No need for Martin to travel now, trip can be postponed and Biden engaged with on the net.
Nothing essential about this at all, Martin's ego at play. Not surprisingly the FG lads are happy for him to go, absolutely dreadful optics.

NH2013

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I see Martin will be heading on an essential trip to present an elderly gentleman a bowl of weeds for Paddy's Day. If only someone invented a means to interact on the internet, ah well.
Do as I say not as I do.

I feel like this firmly falls into the grounds of essential travel, some things have to be done in person, and the US accounts for so much of our FDI in this country, particularly with such a pro-Irish president in the white house at the moment, if ever there was a time for trying to strengthen the relationship now is it, we'll need every last bit of co-operation and investment from US multinationals to get us out of this recession.

I think people need to see the difference between essential (billions in investment) vs non-essential (a week in the sun, a trip to see parents/children/partners living abroad). We can't cut ourselves totally off from the outside world.

Even down to the Brexit deal being done at the 11th hour, no doubt down to the pressure from the USA to get a deal done that respects the GFA or no trade deal with the USA. I really think the relationship between Ireland and the USA is something that fully deserves to be nourished and developed, even if that means 3-4 people leaving the country for a number of days on a trade mission.

Drumpot

froog wrote: »

wow mickey is actually going to washington? what a dumb move. utterly tone deaf.

Totally disagree, its the right call for Ireland even if it does annoy people.

Issue as always is peoples inability to take personal responsibility for their actions (regardless of what others are doing) and making false comparisons.

Going to USA to try and garner positive influence with American President is potentially substantially financially rewarding for Ireland Inc. An individual going on holiday abroad is not in anyway helping us on the same scale.

There is a new president friendly to Ireland, I would argue it would be significantly against our interests for our Taoiseach not to go so people can find something else to get annoyed at.

marno21

Micheal Martin is going to Washington for a meeting at the invitation of the most powerful person in the world. Many counties would kill for this opportunity.

If the uninformed social media mob of idiots stop it I despair. We already had proof of this eejitry with the Northern Ireland issue last Friday when Ireland used to control the relevant portfolio in the EU commission, which would have let us avoid all this, but the Commissioner had to resign because of another festival of knee jerk outrage.

Plumbthedepths

NH2013 wrote: »

I feel like this firmly falls into the grounds of essential travel, some things have to be done in person, and the US accounts for so much of our FDI in this country, particularly with such a pro-Irish president in the white house at the moment, if ever there was a time for trying to strengthen the relationship now is it, we'll need every last bit of co-operation and investment from US multinationals to get us out of this recession.

I think people need to see the difference between essential (billions in investment) vs non-essential (a week in the sun, a trip to see parents/children/partners living abroad). We can't cut ourselves totally off from the outside world.

I think people need to stop twisting themselves into knots trying to justify Martin's behaviour versus the plebs. Thousands of people live in this country but their family resides elsewhere. The government guidelines dismiss their desire to see their family as non essential but massaging Martin's ego is deemed essential.
We won't agree, so pointless engaging further on this.

Plumbthedepths

marno21 wrote: »

Micheal Martin is going to Washington for a meeting at the invitation of the most powerful person in the world. Many counties would kill for this opportunity.

If the uninformed social media mob of idiots stop it I despair. We already had proof of this eejitry with the Northern Ireland issue last Friday when Ireland used to control the relevant portfolio in the EU commission, which would have let us avoid all this, but the Commissioner had to resign because of another festival of knee jerk outrage.

The commissioner had to resign because he lied to his boss. Let's not rewrite history.

froog

Drumpot wrote: »

Totally disagree, its the right call for Ireland even if it does annoy people.

Issue as always is peoples inability to take personal responsibility for their actions (regardless of what others are doing) and making false comparisons.

Going to USA to try and garner positive influence with American President is potentially substantially financially rewarding for Ireland Inc. An individual going on holiday abroad is not in anyway helping us on the same scale.

There is a new president friendly to Ireland, I would argue it would be significantly against our interests for our Taoiseach not to go so people can find something else to get annoyed at.

a shamrock photo op and a present of a hurley or whatever will have zero impact on US investment in Ireland. in the middle of heavy restrictions in a global pandemic, the leader of the country should not be flying to other countries. it looks bad, simple as that.

cameramonkey

marno21 wrote: »

Micheal Martin is going to Washington for a meeting at the invitation of the most powerful person in the world. Many counties would kill for this opportunity.

If the uninformed social media mob of idiots stop it I despair. We already had proof of this eejitry with the Northern Ireland issue last Friday when Ireland used to control the relevant portfolio in the EU commission, which would have let us avoid all this, but the Commissioner had to resign because of another festival of knee jerk outrage.

Washington will be there in six months and so will the most Irish American president we have had since JFK, Micky is just worried that the government will collapse and he will not get his photo op.