Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

froog

Drumpot wrote: »

The response is kind of ironic. Some of yee do not want the head of Irelands government to go over to America because it "doesnt look good", its optically sending out the wrong message.

How does it look to the USA and the American president when our leader refuses to meet him and sends a nobody in his place ?

Diplomacy and harnessing relations is more complex then what some of you understand. I cannot harness the same relationship with clients in zoom calls that I do when I am with them personally. As somebody in a sales role (which is what diplomacy can be) its not the same and its not the same sending an employee (ambassador), you look after your top clients yourself.

I understand why it looks bad, but fundamentally disagree with sentiments that its the wrong call. Dont care if Martin is doing it "for his ego", regardless I think an Irish leaders presence at these events is better for us all.

lol biden wouldn't give a fcuk, come on. he would completely understand, he is busy fighting one of the worst covid spots in the world himself after all.

i guarantee you it's seen as nothing more than a minor photo op in the states. (one of 27 state leader visits in 2019 for example). the self importance of some irish people is really hilarious.

KrustyUCC

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I see Martin will be heading on an essential trip to present an elderly gentleman a bowl of weeds for Paddy's Day. If only someone invented a means to interact on the internet, ah well.
Do as I say not as I do.

I wonder will Martin pay his €500 fine for non essential travel?

Don't worry plebs ye need to stay at home and don't forget no holidays abroad for the year while I can go as I please

Tone deaf from Martin but he's grabbing probably his only chance to go as he's deeply unpopular even within his own party

Goldengirl

Drumpot wrote: »

The response is kind of ironic. Some of yee do not want the head of Irelands government to go over to America because it "doesnt look good", its optically sending out the wrong message.

How does it look to the USA and the American president when our leader refuses to meet him and sends a nobody in his place ?

Diplomacy and harnessing relations is more complex then what some of you understand. I cannot harness the same relationship with clients in zoom calls that I do when I am with them personally. As somebody in a sales role (which is what diplomacy can be) its not the same and its not the same sending an employee (ambassador), you look after your top clients yourself.

I understand why it looks bad, but fundamentally disagree with sentiments that its the wrong call. Dont care if Martin is doing it "for his ego", regardless I think an Irish leaders presence at these events is better for us all.

Yes, ironic that I agree with that other poster maybe

Not a bit saying its MM's ego , just unnecessary and inessential in a pandemic , especially when we know Joe Biden is taking this so seriously he would totally understand and respect the Taoiseach's decision to abort the meeting until everything safer .
If be that next year ,then so be it .
Very likely Joe will not want anything from Ireland this year , shamrock , or anything else , and will still be a top fan.

Kunta Kinte

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's you that said it's not a weed. You were wrong accept and move on.

Instead of arguing the toss about the classification of shamrock is there any chance of getting a reply to my question about whether MM is definitely going to Washington or not?

MerlinSouthDub

Eod100 wrote: »

Not sure what 'managed quarantine' is exactly but interesting move.

https://twitter.com/caroline_gm_d/status/1356612795241017348

That sounds completely pointless, just playing politics. Unless she is also planning on a border between Scotland and England. That would be fun.

Plumbthedepths

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Instead of arguing the toss about the classification of shamrock is there any chance of getting a reply to my question about whether MM is definitely going to Washington or not?

According to several newspapers articles the trip is still on.
Senior FG ministers also want him to go ( I suspect though their reasons may not be benevolent)
Still a weed btw.

fits

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I wonder will Martin pay his €500 fine for non essential travel?

Don't worry plebs ye need to stay at home and don't forget no holidays abroad for the year while I can go as I please

Tone deaf from Martin but he's grabbing probably his only chance to go as he's deeply unpopular even within his own party

It is essential travel. Other countries would love this access to US President.

Plumbthedepths

fits wrote: »

It is essential travel. Other countries would love this access to US President.

Foster and O' Neill are not travelling to the US due to the pandemic and if a part of this island could do with FDI it's the north.
Some things are more important than ego.

Sanjuro

MM's trip to Washington all depends on your point of view of the idea of the Taoiseach going to Washington every year. If you think it's a waste of time, of course you'll see the trip as an affront to the rest of us locked down. If you see it as valuable to international relations, you'll see it as essential travel. It's less about Covid rules and more about the annual trip itself.

MerlinSouthDub

zuutroy wrote: »

Surely one should expect the positivity to decrease when we test people based on the fact that they're just a close contact, and have widened the net beyond people who are showing symptoms?

There are 2 factors at play here. Firstly, testing symptomatic close contacts will bring forward when they get tested. They will get tested as soon as possible after the close contact has had their test, rather than when they develop symptoms. This would lead to a temporary increase in case numbers (because tests are happening earlier).

Secondly, asymptomatic close contacts are getting tested, when they previously weren't being tested. Philip Nolan estimated that this would increase case numbers by 10% or so.

Overall, the positivity rate on close contacts (whether with symptoms or not) is in the 10% to 15% range.

So, you might expect to see numbers plateau this week allowing for the above 2 factors before resuming their fall next week.

CIARAN_BOYLE

zuutroy wrote: »

Surely one should expect the positivity to decrease when we test people based on the fact that they're just a close contact, and have widened the net beyond people who are showing symptoms?

Back in October testing of close contacts showed twice the positivity of people with symptoms.

tigger123

No fan of MM, but he should be going to the White House if at all possible.

We're still in very choppy Brexit waters, and need to solidify the US's support. Need everyone in our corner.

Kunta Kinte

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

According to several newspapers articles the trip is still on.
Senior FG ministers also want him to go ( I suspect though their reasons may not be benevolent)
Still a weed btw.

Just because there may be a story in several newspaper articles it doesn`t necessarily mean MM will definitely be going to the USA. What FG ministers want him to do no matter what their reasons may or may not be is irrelevant.

We will have to agree to disagree about the classification of shamrock BTW.

Drumpot

Goldengirl wrote: »

Yes, ironic that Iagree with that other poster maybe

Not a bit saying its MM's ego , just unnecessary and inessential in a pandemic , especially when we know Joe Biden is taking this so seriously he would totally understand and respect the Taoiseach's decision to abort the meeting until everything safer .
If be that next year ,then so be it .
Very likely Joe will not want anything from Ireland this year , shamrock , or anything else , and will still be a top fan.

This reminds me of Gorbachov recording footage of himself in a kip of a place to "show the people he is the same as them". A leader of a country is not the same as ordinary Joe, wanting him to "look like he is" quite the contradiction. This is not comparable with a government official taking the piss, its an official state visit to a foreign country. Like others have said, given our rocky relationship with Trump, Brexit and unclear future, I would prefer our government takes opportunities like this whenever they can.

You could argue no politician should be going anywhere and all politics should be done by zoom but its not. So why is this official visit imperative to not happen ?

No it is not an essential visit but I do not see the benefit to the wider society if Martin stays at home. Maybe it makes a few people feel better about themselves but that's it really. Is that the way we want our country run , based on how people feel about how things look?

I work for myself , prob will have to postpone my family holiday to France again but I do not see this topic warranting the kind of attention its getting in here. I see the visit more likely to yield positive relations even if MM and Biden have a bit of a laugh and nothing else (people do business with people they like, thats human nature at all levels). I feel this more so now that Trump is gone and Biden appears to be so positive towards Ireland (strike while the preverbial iron is hot). Maybe when you work for yourself you can see the importance of face to face meetings and harnessing relationships with your most important clients which influences my sentiments on the topic.

Plumbthedepths

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Just because there may be a story in several newspaper articles it doesn`t necessarily mean MM will definitely be going to the USA. What FG ministers want him to do no matter what their reasons may or may not be is irrelevant.

We will have to agree to disagree about the classification of shamrock BTW.

Would you like to make a prediction?
I'll go first Martin will go to Washington as to him it's the pinnacle of his career in a job he was happy to get into bed with the old enemy to secure.
As for the Shamrock, feel free to disagree with facts if you wish.

Le Bruise

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

That sounds completely pointless, just playing politics. Unless she is also planning on a border between Scotland and England. That would be fun.

Rebuild Hadrian's wall!

Kunta Kinte

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Would you like to make a prediction?
I'll go first Martin will go to Washington as to him it's the pinnacle of his career in a job he was happy to get into bed with the old enemy to secure.
As for the Shamrock, feel free to disagree with facts if you wish.

He most likely will travel to Washington though not for the reason you state.

You seem to be fixated with your "shamrock is a weed" theory. Quite strange really.

caveat emptor

RIP

https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1356635952064692226?s=20

Taken from the RTE site (I know)
Professor Philip Nolan says 'our lives are not going to return to normal - they're going to get better, but they're not going to return to normal - for some considerable time'. High levels of vaccine-induced immunity will be needed for that to happen


I wonder why he couldn't communicate that in the following way:
Our lives are going to get better. Full normality will return when we have high levels of vaccine-induced immunity. That would be approx 80% vaccinated.


Because his comment reads as if such immunity is very very far away.

GeorgeBailey

Not particularly bothered one way or the other whether MM goes to the US. It's just another one of those annoying small picture things that we've all been drawn into over the last year, e.g. Cheltenham, Joggers, Takeaway pints, etc. Whether he actually goes or not will depend on the reaction to all the stories there'll be about it over then next while. If the public seem overall apathetic then he'll go. If it looks like the public are sharpening up their pitchforks, he'll stay at home.

Gael23

Captain Tom Moore has died of Covid 19 aged 100

WicklaBlaa

Deleted User wrote: »

Taken from the RTE site (I know)
Professor Philip Nolan says 'our lives are not going to return to normal - they're going to get better, but they're not going to return to normal - for some considerable time'. High levels of vaccine-induced immunity will be needed for that to happen


I wonder why he couldn't communicate that in the following way:
Our lives are going to get better. Full normality will return when we have high levels of vaccine-induced immunity. That would be approx 80% vaccinated.


Because his comment reads as if such immunity is very very far away.

People would 'get ahead of themselves'. NPHET need the Irish people submissive and fearful if they are to keep supporting their extended lockdown strategy.

Loafing Oaf

Covid-19: 369 residents died in nursing homes in January, committee hears

I believe a lower percentage of overall covid deaths than in the first wave, but still a pretty terrible total

Gael23

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Covid-19: 369 residents died in nursing homes in January, committee hears

I believe a lower percentage of overall covid deaths than in the first wave, but still a pretty terrible total

Well 30% of all deaths during the pandemic have occurred in one month so it’s disastrous

is_that_so

It seems Captain Tom Moore has succumbed to COVID and passed away. Quite a legacy he left at the very end of his life.

Jim_Hodge

Deleted User wrote: »

Taken from the RTE site (I know)
Professor Philip Nolan says 'our lives are not going to return to normal - they're going to get better, but they're not going to return to normal - for some considerable time'. High levels of vaccine-induced immunity will be needed for that to happen


I wonder why he couldn't communicate that in the following way:
Our lives are going to get better. Full normality will return when we have high levels of vaccine-induced immunity. That would be approx 80% vaccinated.


Because his comment reads as if such immunity is very very far away.

Because your wording (based on previous experience) will cause too many to jump the gun.

SCOOP 64

Gael23 wrote: »

Captain Tom Moore has died of Covid 19 aged 100

So sad all fund raising he done with the walking to help with the fight against Covid and it was Covid which stopped him in the end.

Anniepowaa

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

So sad all fund raising he done with the walking to help with the fight against Covid and it was Covid which stopped him in the end.

hiccups would kill you at a hundred years of age

polesheep

Goldengirl wrote: »

Could nominate an Irish person already over there to do it , like would be an " Irish Ambassador " ...oh wait , we have an Irish Ambassador in America ?

Great idea. I think Biden would be more impressed with this decision than with Martin going over in a pandemic.

pawdee

Anniepowaa wrote: »

hiccups would kill you at a hundred years of age

A neighbour of mine died at her 100th birthday party. I wouldn't mind but we were only halfway through giving her the bumps.