Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

Sconsey

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you talking about the UK? There’s no such rules in the UK.....well, not enforced ones anyway. You can travel anywhere around the county and everyone is out and about. Ireland is much more restrictive

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8875/

Movement restrictions

During full national lockdowns leaving home without a “reasonable excuse” is prohibited.
Laws have prevented people from travelling outside their local area.
Laws have also prohibited travel between specified areas (often to/from areas with different restrictions).

gmisk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you talking about the UK? There’s no such rules in the UK.....well, not enforced ones anyway. You can travel anywhere around the county and everyone is out and about. Ireland is much more restrictive

Huh?
There are rules....and they are enforced in UK.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-dozens-get-lockdown-fines-including-man-on-100-mile-mcdonalds-trip-12190919
Don't talk nonsense

niallo27

Sconsey wrote: »

For feck sake you only have to look at our closest neighbor to see they have movement restrictions...would you prefer their rules that don't allow you outside the house without a good reason? So many countries have similar rules to ours, find something better to pi55 and moan about.

What country are you not allowed outside the house do tell me, so again I'll ask the question does any country have a such a 5km restriction as us, if you could answer without having a hissy fit, it would be great.

accensi0n

niallo27 wrote: »

What country are you not allowed outside the house do tell me, so again I'll ask the question does any country have a such a 5km restriction as us, if you could answer without having a hissy fit, it would be great.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/explainers-52530518

MerlinSouthDub

Hospital report out

1158 in hospital (down from 1239)
177 in ICU (down from 183 but sadly 6 deaths)

accensi0n

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Hospital report out

1158 in hospital (down from 1239)
177 in ICU (down from 183 but sadly 6 deaths)

Savage, really looking forward to next Friday. Hopefully sub 1k 7 day average, sub 1k hospitalisations and sub 150 ICU.

Sconsey

niallo27 wrote: »

What country are you not allowed outside the house do tell me, so again I'll ask the question does any country have a such a 5km restriction as us, if you could answer without having a hissy fit, it would be great.

Yeah read the replies then get your coat.

gmisk

gmisk wrote: »

Huh?
There are rules....and they are enforced in UK.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-dozens-get-lockdown-fines-including-man-on-100-mile-mcdonalds-trip-12190919
Don't talk nonsense

I’ve been spending a lot of my time in the UK. I have a flat in west London. And everyone is out and about and the motorways are busy. In this lockdown I have stayed in Bristol to go for a walk with my parents and in Bournemouth.

There are a handful of anecdotes, but other than that everyone is going about the business and traffic and movement is pretty much as normal

Enforcement and compliance is nothing like in Ireland. And, no, there is no meaningful enforcement on distance from home. In fact, as has been discussed in the commons, there is no restriction on how far you can drive to exercise

Probes

niallo27 wrote: »

What country are you not allowed outside the house do tell me, so again I'll ask the question does any country have a such a 5km restriction as us, if you could answer without having a hissy fit, it would be great.

In Cyprus you had to get a text message from the government for permission to leave the house. In Madrid you weren't even allowed out for walks.

NeuralNetwork

Deleted User wrote: »

I’ve been spending a lot of my time in the UK. I have a flat in west London. And everyone is out and about and the motorways are busy. In this lockdown I have stayed in Bristol to go for a walk with my parents and in Bournemouth.

There are a handful of anecdotes, but other than that everyone is going about the business and traffic and movement is pretty much as normal

Enforcement and compliance is nothing like in Ireland. And, no, there is no meaningful enforcement on distance from home. In fact, as has been discussed in the commons, there is no restriction on how far you can drive to exercise

And to be fair, we got from >8000 cases a day a few weeks ago to around 1000 a day today and have been lower. So basically an 8 to 10X drop in cases in month.

Whatever we've been doing it's worked and very dramatically.

mandrake04

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

And to be fair, we got from >8000 cases a day a few weeks ago to around 1000 a day today and have been lower. So basically an 8 to 10X drop in cases in month.

Whatever we've been doing it's worked and very dramatically.

Its called L5, like you say it works but its not that popular.

TOMs WIFE

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I find it so sad that many people died in January as a result of a "meaningful" Christmas. Another month or two and many of those who died would have been vaccinated and survived.

I don't think it's as simplistic though as saying that many of those who died "would have survived". Assuming per the figures that most mortalities are circa. aged 85, we have no idea of the life expectancy of those particular patients with, possibly, lots of underlying conditions and being hospitalised/in nursing homes.

That's not to say (why do we all have to pre apologise for potentially offending people these days) that it doesn't matter, but phrasing it like they would have survived, as if such survival was long term, may not be realistic.

Put another way, if the population was told that with a "meaningful Christmas" (including with the relevant people that died in this period) would die in January from Covid as opposed to February from old age, would they be willing to endure lockdown? The moral highground on here would say yes, but I'm not so sure. That's not to diminish the importance of their lives, but we really don't know how long more their lives would have lasted without the meaningful Christmas, perhaps not very long. Perspective.

spookwoman

TOMs WIFE wrote: »

I don't think it's as simplistic though as saying that many of those who died "would have survived". Assuming per the figures that most mortalities are circa. aged 85, we have no idea of the life expectancy of those particular patients with, possibly, lots of underlying conditions and being hospitalised/in nursing homes.

That's not to say (why do we all have to pre apologise for potentially offending people these days) that it doesn't matter, but phrasing it like they would have survived, as if such survival was long term, may not be realistic.

Put another way, if the population was told that with a "meaningful Christmas" (including with the relevant people that died in this period) would die in January from Covid as opposed to February from old age, would they be willing to endure lockdown? The moral highground on here would say yes, but I'm not so sure. That's not to diminish the importance of their lives, but we really don't know how long more their lives would have lasted without the meaningful Christmas, perhaps not very long. Perspective.

Pity we can't ask them if they would prefer to have died in January or February.
F*ck sake!

TOMs WIFE

spookwoman wrote: »

Pity we can't ask them if they would prefer to have died in January or February.
F*ck sake!

That is not the point. Point was that if the population at large was asked to lockdown for a significant period to increase life expectancy of those in their mid 80s by a month, do you think there would be significant buy in? I don't. But virtue signal away.

Danno

spookwoman wrote: »

Pity we can't ask them if they would prefer to have died in January or February.
F*ck sake!

Hmmm, I disagree with this sentiment. I'd rather be at the full of my health up till the last month and drop off quickly than hanging on for 5 years suffering and requiring "round-the-clock-care" that won't change the outcome anyways...

Maybe that's just me.

Goldengirl

Danno wrote: »

Hmmm, I disagree with this sentiment. I'd rather be at the full of my health up till the last month and drop off quickly than hanging on for 5 years suffering and requiring "round-the-clock-care" that won't change the outcome anyways...

Maybe that's just me.

Nobody knows what they would want until they are in that situation.
Having lost one parent suddenly to a preventable illness and another a slow horrible decline , I still could not say which one was " better" .
And I have seen a lot of death in my work .

spookwoman

TOMs WIFE wrote: »

That is not the point. Point was that if the population at large was asked to lockdown for a significant period to increase life expectancy of those in their mid 80s by a month, do you think there would be significant buy in? I don't. But virtue signal away.

They were not asked to lock down to increase the life expectancy for those in their 80's by a month, they were asked to lock down to saves lives of ALL ages and also to stop putting the health services under even more pressure.
Because some people couldn't be ar*ed to think of others, the hospitals have had to put off clinics etc. How many people are going to die or have died because they cannot get an appointment in hospital for their ailment. How many have died in hospital because the prevalence of the virus is so high in the community that patients in with non covid related illnesses are getting infected in the wards.

I'll rephrase your question "If the population at large was asked to lockdown for a significant period so ordinary people could live their lives to their full life expectancy without getting Covid, do you think there would be significant buy in?" The answer is many have, because they do not want to see loved ones suffer and die.

Life does not stop or become meaningless when you hit 80. Are you going to ask someone put an end to your life if and when you turn 80, or when you start getting sick and taking up hospital beds. Starting to sound a lot like Eugenics.

spookwoman

spookwoman wrote: »

I'll rephrase your question "If the population at large was asked to lockdown for a significant period so ordinary people could live their lives to their full life expectancy without getting Covid, do you think there would be significant buy in?" The answer is many have, because they do not want to see loved ones suffer and die.

Life does not stop or become meaningless when you hit 80. Are you going to ask someone put an end to your life if and when you turn 80, or when you start getting sick and taking up hospital beds. Starting to sound a lot like Eugenics.

Yes but when do we stop, when do we look at the devastation this is causing to every other cohort and age group in society as a whole, to teenagers, kids, first time parents, people who’ve lost their jobs and their small businesses, people whose relationships have broken up because of Covid.........the list goes on and on and on . When do we get balance in how we’re looking and dealing with this ?

fits

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes but when do we stop, when do we look at the devastation this is causing to every other cohort and age group in society as a whole, to teenagers, kids, first time parents, people who’ve lost their jobs and their small businesses, people whose relationships have broken up because of Covid.........the list goes on and on and on . When do we get balance in how we’re looking and dealing with this ?

There is no way to balance it. If the virus isn’t under control it’s rampant and that does affect people of all ages.

Happydays2020

fits wrote: »

There is no way to balance it. If the virus isn’t under control it’s rampant and that does affect people of all ages.

We balanced it before and can balance it again. That means all hospitality closed (until most vulnerable are vaccinated and limited thereafter) but construction, schools and non essential retail open. Also means restrictions on household mixing until early summer.

But what can open relatively safely should at the earliest possible date taking into account case numbers, hospitalisation levels and ICU. Thankfully due to the great sacrifices those numbers are dropping quickly.

Probes

TOMs WIFE wrote: »

That is not the point. Point was that if the population at large was asked to lockdown for a significant period to increase life expectancy of those in their mid 80s by a month, do you think there would be significant buy in? I don't. But virtue signal away.

Your idea that people are lying around waiting to die is wrong and dangerous. It's been disproved time and again during the pandemic. This view is straight from the mouth of that charlatan Cummins.

prunudo

Happydays2020 wrote: »

We balanced it before and can balance it again. That means all hospitality closed (until most vulnerable are vaccinated and limited thereafter) but construction, schools and non essential retail open. Also means restrictions on household mixing until early summer.

But what can open relatively safely should at the earliest possible date taking into account case numbers, hospitalisation levels and ICU. Thankfully due to the great sacrifices those numbers are dropping quickly.

We definitely messed up the balance in December and with what transpired in early January. We are well on top of cases now but remember we have another 4 weeks of these restrictions.
The government are petrified to get it wrong again and are going for the over cautious wait and see model again.
Given how we controlled numbers in lockdown 2, personally see no reason not to open construction from middle of this month and schools from whenever they were due to return after midterm.

ceadaoin.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes but when do we stop, when do we look at the devastation this is causing to every other cohort and age group in society as a whole, to teenagers, kids, first time parents, people who’ve lost their jobs and their small businesses, people whose relationships have broken up because of Covid.........the list goes on and on and on . When do we get balance in how we’re looking and dealing with this ?

What about the people who have been denied meaningful time with their loved ones who then ended up dying of something other than covid? I'm sure they arent thinking it was for the greater good. My husband has lost 2 close relatives during all this, one of them his mother. He couldn't go and say goodbye, or attend the funerals (we live abroad). The other person received an unexpected diagnosis and died shortly after. Their family were denied Christmas (its the UK) and most of the year together because of the restrictions not knowing it was the last chance.

I mean, all this stuff has to be balanced. Time is precious. Covid doesnt change that. If I was elderly I wouldn't want to sacrifice seeing my family when it could very well be the last Christmas, last birthday, last time seeing grandkids etc.

Some people are blind to anything that isn't covid and the labeling of people doing normal human things as selfish scumbags is absolutely despicable. Thats without going into the collateral damage of unemployment, suicide, addictions etc. Its a cluster **** and I genuinely don't understand why people are turning a blind eye to it.

Mark1916

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1357966186332512257?s=21

People should give this a read.

Hellrazer

Mark1916 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1357966186332512257?s=21

People should give this a read.

While its all quite positive theres one sentence from Tony Holohan that should have people up in arms and should have Tony on the Dole.

He also noted that the public health system is not robust enough to be lightning quick in identifying any imported cases before they would result in local transmission.

They had a full year to prepare for this (this is what we were told lockdown Number 1 was for) yet here we are a year on and we`re still not robust enough to prevent a local transmission from an imported case.

I honestly fear for this country if this is what we have managing our health service. Scary times ahead.

Mark1916

Mark1916 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1357966186332512257?s=21

People should give this a read.

That’s great .......meanwhile 10million already vaccinated in the UK! We’re at a snails pace by comparison. (That would be everyone in this country done twice ). I just don’t have faith in the HSE getting this done in a timely manner .

Gruffalux

https://www.channel4.com/news/rising-covid-cases-and-deaths-hit-portugal-as-hospitals-run-out-of-beds

I agree people should not be called scumbags. But then for some reason the word scum really makes me shudder. It is a horrible word to call anyone.
And everyone has a different response to the pandemic. Even within households people disagree! There is a lot of frustration. A lot missing checkups and procedures. A lot missing family who live away - thank goodness for video calling apps or I would not have "seen" some of my children in a very long time.

But something goes on with this disease when life is allowed to be "normal". It replicates fast. Most are fine if they get it thankfully. But a significant enough percentage are affected badly enough to require intensive medical care.

Ireland saw that in January. We caught the spread earlier than say Portugal, which I link above.
Portugal has twice our population and 4 times our deaths from Covid. Half those deaths happened in 1 month. We just had 1100 deaths in a month - they had more than 6000. They have had a bad time. All they did was live normally for a little while.

My point being that something definite, measureable and harmful happens if a country drops its guard.
In the video above, at the end is a nice looking chap saying enough of this pandemic restriction, the cure is worse than the disease. For me it contrasts to the scenes earlier in the hospital. The doctors and nurses trying to save lives. Being overwhelmed by numbers. He is instead removed physically, enotionally and mentally from the coal face of the results of lax restrictions.

Things will change with vaccines etc. Seem to be changing already from reports coming out of places like Israel. But in retrospect I do not think we can logically criticise restrictions that have tried to stop a contagious disease replicating without hindrance that from all the evidence and unfortunate experience causes significant harm in various ways if a loose rein is held.

(Though I personally would have gone for complete eradication from the beginning if I had any power in the world, as all endemic morbidity is a burden on any species that should not be casually accepted. But failing that, at least do not let it rip.)

XsApollo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That’s great .......meanwhile 10million already vaccinated in the UK! We’re at a snails pace by comparison. (That would be everyone in this country done twice ). I just don’t have faith in the HSE getting this done in a timely manner .

I’m sure you understand the logic of your comparison between Ireland and the UK, but you are just choosing to ignore it.

Ficheall

Hellrazer wrote: »

While its all quite positive theres one sentence from Tony Holohan that should have people up in arms and should have Tony on the Dole.

They had a full year to prepare for this (this is what we were told lockdown Number 1 was for) yet here we are a year on and we`re still not robust enough to prevent a local transmission from an imported case.

I honestly fear for this country if this is what we have managing our health service. Scary times ahead.

Preventing all transmission from imported cases is only possible with proper enforced quarantine immediately upon arrival.

Ficheall

Danno wrote: »

Hmmm, I disagree with this sentiment. I'd rather be at the full of my health up till the last month and drop off quickly than hanging on for 5 years suffering and requiring "round-the-clock-care" that won't change the outcome anyways...

Maybe that's just me.

"Drop off quickly".. have you seen many people dying of covid?

And is the argument that people who skipped Christmas dinner and hence didn't die of covid are going to immediately drop dead in January, or that they are going to live for five years?
And yes, in the long run we are all dead, but making the call to have Christmas dinner and then administer a few postprandial euthanisations might be met with some resistance.