Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

podgeandrodge

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm baffled why you think he should. Every other Paddy's Day it's an opportunity to make business leaders and a host of other political leaders. This year it most likely is restricted to giving Joe a bowl of weeds that will quickly be thrown into the Whitehouse furnace by SS staff.
I don't know Joe Biden but I'm sure he would understand the reasoning behind Martin not travelling during a pandemic similar to Martin and his government advising none of the population to travel either.
It's called leading by example.

Yeah, inclined to agree. Notwithstanding the importance of this event, the 2 leaders doing a video call would send out a signal to people that unnecessary travel is unnecessary travel. The shamrock can wait until 2022 and doing it remotely this year will not impact on our "ability" to meet the US president every other year.

Gruffalux

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

As I said I'm against stupid restrictions. You seem to wish to make your comments very personal although when you refer to as you did yesterday people as animals I'm not surprised. I hope when the restrictions are lifted you can find somewhere to emigrate to where the populace will be more in keeping with what you find acceptable.

Just to keep the record straight I believe he used the metaphor of young bullocks being released from the sheds after the winter confinement - something like that - to create a picture of the excitement of people being released into social activities after a lockdown pre Christmas. Which is not the same as referring people to as animals.

TonyMaloney

Gruffalux wrote: »

Just to keep the record straight I believe he used the metaphor of young bullocks being released from the sheds after the winter confinement - something like that - to create a picture of the excitement of people being released into social activities after a lockdown pre Christmas. Which is not the same as referring people to as animals.

Plumb does not like it when ANY cohort of people get "demonised" or "vilified" for their actions.

Except for travellers.

Plumbthedepths

wadacrack wrote: »

Why are they stupid? What's the alternative with the current situation we are in.

I never said all restrictions were stupid. I still hold the opinion that suppression of socialisation/ retail for six weeks only opening for 3 weeks with the implication of lockdown in early Jan was stupid and again in my opinion was a major factor in creating the post Christmas mess.

Plumbthedepths

Gruffalux wrote: »

Just to keep the record straight I believe he used the metaphor of young bullocks being released from the sheds after the winter confinement - something like that - to create a picture of the excitement of people being released into social activities after a lockdown pre Christmas. Which is not the same as referring people to as animals.

I suggest you read his follow on comments to further straighten the record.

Gruffalux

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Plumb does not like it when ANY cohort of people get "demonised" or "vilified" for their actions.

Except for travellers.

Lookit, I know we are all fed up and say stuff. I know I am fed up and I am a blooming hermit by choice and nature :pac:

OwenM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

All three.

Would you share the quantitative data?

MrMusician18

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm baffled why you think he should. Every other Paddy's Day it's an opportunity to make business leaders and a host of other political leaders. This year it most likely is restricted to giving Joe a bowl of weeds that will quickly be thrown into the Whitehouse furnace by SS staff.
I don't know Joe Biden but I'm sure he would understand the reasoning behind Martin not travelling during a pandemic similar to Martin and his government advising none of the population to travel either.
It's called leading by example.

Of course he should go if he's invited. I'm absolutely sick of the annual Patrick's Day whining that goes on with these trips. There is simply no other small country that has an annual standing invitation to the White House and effectively a day handed over to them. This seems very hard for some to grasp, or if they do they seem hell bent on reducing Irelands opportunities to get its message out into the world. If Biden invites him, Martin will attend as he should. Snubbing a superpower is not a good look, it took years for Ireland to rebuild it's diplomatic relationship with the Chinese when Cowen cancelled his trip to Beijing at short notice because of the financial crisis. If Martin doesn't go, it will set a precedent that this invitation can be cancelled and that would no be good for the country.

This isn't about trips for me but none for thee. It never was.

Gruffalux

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I suggest you read his follow on comments to further straighten the record.

Yes, I saw that just now. But I really don't think the intention was to call people animals. It was more about the metaphorical state of people bucking with excitement to get out and about. And, in fairness, at a level, we are animals!

Neamhshuntasach

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I'm only guessing here but I guess there could be 2 factors:

1) Deaths in hospital (hopefully this is not the main reason)
2) I wonder if the discharges are people who have actually left hospital whereas the number of Covid patients in hospital could fall due to the patient now testing negative (but still being in hospital so not counted as a discharge). I think there was some reference to this at a HSE briefing last week.

Not sure how much it impacts the national numbers. But on your point number 2, i know if being quite relevant for one Dublin hospital.

Just as a high number of patients counted in the numbers for that hospital didn't come through the door with Covid symptoms. They were just moved wards and counted in the figures. It also works in reverse. They didn't leave the hospital once over Covid. Just back to standard ward for original purpose in hospital. But it counts as a discharge in respect of Covid numbers.

Doctor Jimbob

TonyMaloney wrote: »

The yearly paddy's day trip is an essential part of Ireland's soft power.

If a certain cohort of the population don't understand or care about that and will crib, moan and ultimately vote against Martin for it in the future, well I'm absolutely fine with that too.

Knock yourselves out

We're in a situation where people have been asked not to travel abroad unless necessary for almost a year. At the moment, we're being asked not to travel more than 5km from our homes. Numerous businesses have been closed down for a large part of the past year. It's a fairly unprecedented situation and it's a bit of a kick in the teeth that MM is seemingly planning to travel for an event that could very easily take place by video for one fecking year.

Gruffalux

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We're in a situation where people have been asked not to travel abroad unless necessary for almost a year. At the moment, we're being asked not to travel more than 5km from our homes. Numerous businesses have been closed down for a large part of the past year. It's a fairly unprecedented situation and it's a bit of a kick in the teeth that MM is seemingly planning to travel for an event that could very easily take place by video for one fecking year.

Yeah and especially because Biden won't remember who he was 10 minutes later.. :P:pac:

is_that_so

AdamD wrote: »

Genuinely baffling that anyone thinks MM should not go to the US.

He's made it contingent on an invitation. In all probability there won't be one this year.

Plumbthedepths

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Of course he should go if he's invited. I'm absolutely sick of the annual Patrick's Day whining that goes on with these trips. There is simply no other small country that has an annual standing invitation to the White House and effectively a day handed over to them. This seems very hard for some to grasp, or if they do they seem hell bent on reducing Irelands opportunities to get its message out into the world. If Biden invites him, Martin will attend as he should. Snubbing a superpower is not a good look, it took years for Ireland to rebuild it's diplomatic relationship with the Chinese when Cowen cancelled his trip to Beijing at short notice because of the financial crisis. If Martin doesn't go, it will set a precedent that this invitation can be cancelled and that would no be good for the country.

This isn't about trips for me but none for thee. It never was.

I know this maybe distrubing for you but just because people do not share your opinion or worldview it neither makes them whingers or ignorant to matters of import.
In case you haven't noticed many things have been cancelled due to the Pandemic. The Whitehouse and the US Presidency will still be there when this passes.

marno21

Colm Henry said there that the 14 day incidence is now 312. The incidence rate for the previous 14 days before that is 766. This represents the most rapid fall in 14 day incidence in Europe (he wasn’t clear on what timeframe).

is_that_so

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Plumb does not like it when ANY cohort of people get "demonised" or "vilified" for their actions.

Except for travellers.

One really shouldn't have a need to vilify anyone. We're all getting by the best we can with this.

MerlinSouthDub

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We're in a situation where people have been asked not to travel abroad unless necessary for almost a year. At the moment, we're being asked not to travel more than 5km from our homes. Numerous businesses have been closed down for a large part of the past year. It's a fairly unprecedented situation and it's a bit of a kick in the teeth that MM is seemingly planning to travel for an event that could very easily take place by video for one fecking year.

Our MEPs travel to and from Brussels regularly. As do some of our ministers. Our rugby team travelled to Wales at the weekend. The Taoiseach travelling to the US to meet the President of the most powerful nation in the world seems somewhat more important than any of these things.

Plumbthedepths

Gruffalux wrote: »

Yes, I saw that just now. But I really don't think the intention was to call people animals. It was more about the metaphorical state of people bucking with excitement to get out and about. And, in fairness, at a level, we are animals!

Thank you for acknowledging he referred to others as animals. You attach a caveat to the word I don't. If spoken a bad choice of words is a defence. To type it took a deliberate intent. I'll leave it there.

TonyMaloney

OwenM wrote: »

Would you share the quantitative data?

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/people-with-covid-19-more-likely-to-develop-depression-anxiety-and-dementia#How-the-new-coronavirus-affects-the-mind

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366(20)30462-4/fulltext

Gruffalux

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Thank you for acknowledging he referred to others as animals. You attach a caveat to the word I don't. If spoken a bad choice of words is a defence. To type it took a deliberate intent. I'll leave it there.

It happens to the best of us, Plumb. You yourself have called me delusional when I am far from it

Plumbthedepths

Gruffalux wrote: »

It happens to the best of us, Plumb. You yourself have called me delusional when I am far from it

There is no other word to use when you ask someone should 7+billion people lock themselves down for 3 weeks and they answer yes.

zuutroy

Imagine if there were no clear answer and there were both benefits and downsides to him going to the US and that it was a difficult decision. You know, like the type of reasoning that doesn't happen on the internet.

KrustyUCC

Yeah right a difficult decision where he'll just pick what he wanted to do in the first place

Will only be a difficult decision if he stays home which he won't do

Gruffalux

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

There is no other word to use when you ask someone should 7+billion people lock themselves down for 3 weeks and they answer yes.

History will show it was the wrong decision to allow Covid 19 to become endemic. I am convinced of that, not just in terms of mortality but in terms of morbidity in the species. We have had live demonstrations in successful developed nations of zero covid in action for over a year.
Locking down the world for 3 weeks is a wholly simplistic summary of what i would envisage, which would be green zones, where covid is stamped out by an initial short strict lockdown, then opening up fully, but protected by quarantine and very strict test trace isolate protocols. Travel corridors can be maintained between green zones until covid is at a tiny level everywhere - like say MERS is now.. All of which is far from delusional. What we are doing now is sloppy, long drawn out, destructive stupidity.
If you feel you can call me delusional for holding my rational views, that's fine. I will be magnanimous enough not to call you delusional for your views.

Plumbthedepths

Gruffalux wrote: »

History will show it was the wrong decision to allow Covid 19 to become endemic. I am convinced of that, not just in terms of mortality but in terms of morbidity in the species. We have had live demonstrations in successful developed nations of zero covid in action for over a year.
Locking down the world for 3 weeks is a wholly simplistic summary of what i would envisage, which would be green zones, where covid is stamped out by an initial short strict lockdown, then opening up fully, but protected by quarantine and very strict test trace isolate protocols. Travel corridors can be maintained between green zones until covid is at a tiny level everywhere - like say MERS is now.. All of which is far from delusional. What we are doing now is sloppy, long drawn out, destructive stupidity.
If you feel you can call me delusional for holding my rational views, that's fine. I will be magnanimous enough not to call you delusional for your views.

Unfortunately you don't seem to realise feeding oneself or family for much of the world's population is of far more importance than a virus that may or may not kill you.
I'm not being argumentative just pointing out a fact of life for billions.

is_that_so

Just for reference, here are the numbers of over 70s for vaccinations.

72,500 85+ year olds and 480,000 70+ year olds

Ficheall

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Of course he should go if he's invited. I'm absolutely sick of the annual Patrick's Day whining that goes on with these trips. There is simply no other small country that has an annual standing invitation to the White House and effectively a day handed over to them. This seems very hard for some to grasp, or if they do they seem hell bent on reducing Irelands opportunities to get its message out into the world. If Biden invites him, Martin will attend as he should. Snubbing a superpower is not a good look, it took years for Ireland to rebuild it's diplomatic relationship with the Chinese when Cowen cancelled his trip to Beijing at short notice because of the financial crisis. If Martin doesn't go, it will set a precedent that this invitation can be cancelled and that would no be good for the country.

There might be some benefit to the trip other years, and maybe Trump would have taken lack of attendance as a snub, because he was a self-centred idiot who didn't recognise covid as a problem - but I think it's safe to credit Biden with the empathy to understand why no one, especially leaders of a country, should be travelling for a photo op. This "networking" is in the same league as Golfgate was, except with notice that it was going to happen.

Gruffalux

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Unfortunately you don't seem to realise feeding oneself or family for much of the world's population is of far more importance than a virus that may or may not kill you.
I'm being argumentative just pointing out a fact of life for billions.

It's not the kill you bit that is the most important - weirdly - in my opinion. Study of developing countries have shown over long times that endemic diseases such as malaria, parasites, etc have slowed down the economic and social progress of vast swathes of populations. The fatigue and low level morbidity experienced by not controlling diseases has a very definite long term dragging effect on populations. The poorest in the world do not need the extra drag of post viral effects of Covid.

TonyMaloney

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Unfortunately you don't seem to realise feeding oneself or family for much of the world's population is of far more importance than a virus that may or may not kill you.
I'm being argumentative just pointing out a fact of life for billions.

You clearly didn't read his post. He outlined how you wouldn't have to lock down the entire planet.

Besides, much of the planet's nations did lock down regardless of their economic circumstances. Unfortunately there was no global coordination. When one country entered lockdown another was exiting, and so the virus continued to thrive.

Gruffalux

TonyMaloney wrote: »

You clearly didn't read his post. He outlined how you wouldn't have to lock down the entire planet.

Besides, much of the planet's nations did lock down regardless of their economic circumstances. Unfortunately there was no global coordination. When one country entered lockdown another was exiting, and so the virus continued to thrive.

She