Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

TonyMaloney

iamwhoiam wrote: »

But how do we know its pretty close to the plan ? They tell us nothing except it will last till April or May and wind people up no end with the lack of some sort of of plan

We don't. Not in that sort of detail.
We know they're planning a "gradual reopening of the economy". And what you outlined previously sounded like a very plausible priority list.
We just have no idea of when any of it might happen.

Other than schools and construction of course. We're dipping our toes in the water with those two first. If they go well, then things could move a bit faster than what we're all currently trying to come to terms with.

I have to say I'm very worried about how it will go, but then I'm a bit like that. You?

TonyMaloney

niallo27 wrote: »

May was a belter last year, it was roasting.

Niall, you don't want to hear this, but last spring was one of the best on record. Weather-wise of course.
It wasn't a good spring for woodies.

Or home decoration in general.

TonyMaloney

TonyMaloney wrote: »

We don't. Not in that sort of detail.
We know they're planning a "gradual reopening of the economy". And what you outlined previously sounded like a very plausible priority list.
We just have no idea of when any of it might happen.

Other than schools and construction of course. We're dipping our toes in the water with those two first. If they go well, then things could move a bit faster than what we're all currently trying to come to terms with.

I have to say I'm very worried about how it will go, but then I'm a bit like that. You?

European countries have shown that, even now - at this date - you can have the economy semi-open.

Not completely open. Not without masks and restrictions. But some form of normality.

This idea, which has wedded itself to Ireland, that any form of minor easement of restriction is somehow the largest weapon against the state, is a fantasy and bordering on the paranoid.

Christmas is over.

People will not behave the same as at Christmas now. They've no reason to.

But the more you condemn people to their homes, the greater urge they will have to visit friends and family to a greater degree once restrictions ease.

Part of me wonders how much politics - and the fear of political retribution, both to government and Chairman Holohan - plays out in all of this.

Kunta Kinte

niallo27 wrote: »

May was a belter last year, it was roasting.

Irrelevant. May is officially a spring month.

iamwhoiam

TonyMaloney wrote: »

We don't. Not in that sort of detail.
We know they're planning a "gradual reopening of the economy". And what you outlined previously sounded like a very plausible priority list.
We just have no idea of when any of it might happen.

Other than schools and construction of course. We're dipping our toes in the water with those two first. If they go well, then things could move a bit faster than what we're all currently trying to come to terms with.

I have to say I'm very worried about how it will go, but then I'm a bit like that. You?

I am more worried that they keep people lockdowned for too long and it will be like a pressure cooker exploding . They made that mistake at Christmas and am worried they will do it again
Personally speaking I have done everything right since last March and tried my absolute best to stay within restrictions . But if the 5kms is not lifted by March the 5th I am throwing in that towel and going beyond it to the beach

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

European countries have shown that, even now - at this date - you can have the economy semi-open.

Not completely open. Not without masks and restrictions. But some form of normality.

This idea, which has wedded itself to Ireland, that any form of minor easement of restriction is somehow the largest weapon against the state, is a fantasy and bordering on the paranoid.

Christmas is over.

People will not behave the same as at Christmas now. They've no reason to.

But the more you condemn people to their homes, the greater urge they will have to visit friends and family to a greater degree once restrictions ease.

Part of me wonders how much politics - and the fear of political retribution, both to government and Chairman Holohan - plays out in all of this.

that's great what about icu capacity? is it similar?

Ted_YNWA

Mod

Can we bring the "When is Spring" & weather chat to a different thread

TonyMaloney

[Deleted User] wrote: »

European countries have shown that, even now - at this date - you can have the economy semi-open.

Not completely open. Not without masks and restrictions. But some form of normality.

This idea, which has wedded itself to Ireland, that any form of minor easement of restriction is somehow the largest weapon against the state, is a fantasy and bordering on the paranoid.

Christmas is over.

People will not behave the same as at Christmas now. They've no reason to.

But the more you condemn people to their homes, the greater urge they will have to visit friends and family to a greater degree once restrictions ease.

Part of me wonders how much politics - and the fear of political retribution, both to government and Chairman Holohan - plays out in all of this.

Just about every country in europe is currently under harsh restrictions. Basically lockdown.

Italy and certain regions of spain look to be taking a big gamble and are easing, but there's literally no country in europe operating the way you seem to suggest. Not one.

Name some countries. We can find their restrictions online and then use Google mobility data to see how the people are reacting to them.

Kunta Kinte

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I'm pretty sure woodies opened in June, Niall.

I hope you weren't sitting there all summer, idle, without any paint and completely misinformed.

Late May actually as did other hardware/DIY stores/garden centres.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Part of me wonders how much politics - and the fear of political retribution, both to government and Chairman Holohan - plays out in all of this.

I think it's two-pronged.

The Government is in a position now where the Taoiseach knows he's never going to face the voters again. He's also managed to sideline our elected national parliament and give himself powers to rule by decree. There is a sneaking suspicion that he may have lost the run of himself.

The other prong is that the rest of the Government _do_ have to face the voters again, and might very well have to do so this year. Chairman Tony is both a bullet and a bullet-proof vest.

If he demands lockdown, and they demur, and things go wrong, the denunciation of them by Holohan could cost them, politically.

But when they're knocking doors, and people say "I won't vote for you, you destroyed my business", they can say "sure you can vote for me, it was Tony, what could I do?"

Ficheall

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am more worried that they keep people lockdowned for too long and it will be like a pressure cooker exploding . They made that mistake at Christmas and am worried they will do it again

Couldn't possible be the fault of people having their meaningful Christmas, no - it was the fault of the restrictions brought in to reduce the previous wave so that the post-Christmas wave didn't have an even higher base to start from..

The mistake at Christmas wasn't the lockdown to reduce the previous wave, it was opening up too much and people throwing caution to the wind.

TonyMaloney

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am more worried that they keep people lockdowned for too long and it will be like a pressure cooker exploding . They made that mistake at Christmas and am worried they will do it again
Personally speaking I have done everything right since last March and tried my absolute best to stay within restrictions . But if the 5kms is not lifted by March the 5th I am throwing in that towel and going beyond it to the beach

I think "pressure cooker" over states things a bit.
But I do take the point. It's a fair one and definitely played a part in December.
I guess that's a big part of the reason why we should open in stages.

I'm no saint. I've broken restrictions. And if you want to take a small risk and go to the beach sometimes, then ****ing do it man.
Just stop encouraging everyone else online to do the same. Keep it under your hat

Ficheall

Ficheall wrote: »

Couldn't possible be the fault of people having their meaningful Christmas, no - it was the fault of the restrictions brought in to reduce the previous wave so that the post-Christmas wave didn't have an even higher base to start from..

The mistake at Christmas wasn't the lockdown to reduce the previous wave, it was opening up too much and people throwing caution to the wind.

After the uprising of the 17th of June
The Secretary of the Writers' Union
Had leaflets distributed on the Stalinallee
Stating that the people
Had forfeited the confidence of the government
And could only win it back
By increased work quotas. Would it not in that case be simpler
for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?

iamwhoiam

Ficheall wrote: »

Couldn't possible be the fault of people having their meaningful Christmas, no - it was the fault of the restrictions brought in to reduce the previous wave so that the post-Christmas wave didn't have an even higher base to start from..

The mistake at Christmas wasn't the lockdown to reduce the previous wave, it was opening up too much and people throwing caution to the wind.

It was both . Opening everything all at once and people absolutely lost control and blew it .
And part of the problem was the gloating that we were the lowest in Europe and doing great and then opening everything up and that was that

mcburns07

Ficheall wrote: »

Couldn't possible be the fault of people having their meaningful Christmas, no - it was the fault of the restrictions brought in to reduce the previous wave so that the post-Christmas wave didn't have an even higher base to start from..

The mistake at Christmas wasn't the lockdown to reduce the previous wave, it was opening up too much and people throwing caution to the wind.

You're blaming people for being human. Everything we're being asked to do right now goes against so many things that we're genetically pre disposed to seek out.... Of course some people are going to let loose when finally released from this misery. We all have different levels of self control and motivations.

iamwhoiam

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I think "pressure cooker" over states things a bit.
But I do take the point. It's a fair one and definitely played a part in December.
I guess that's a big part of the reason why we should open in stages.

I'm no saint. I've broken restrictions. And if you want to take a small risk and go to the beach sometimes, then ****ing do it man.
Just stop encouraging everyone else online to do the same. Keep it under your hat

Just to be pedantic I am a she !!!
Nope I will do it and at the same time let others make up their own mind . At this stage the 5kms is a nonsense in my opinion

aziz

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am more worried that they keep people lockdowned for too long and it will be like a pressure cooker exploding . They made that mistake at Christmas and am worried they will do it again
Personally speaking I have done everything right since last March and tried my absolute best to stay within restrictions . But if the 5kms is not lifted by March the 5th I am throwing in that towel and going beyond it to the beach

I have a feeling, that pressure cooker is on the verge now and if the government don’t pull the plug soon, it’s going to be one hell of an explosion 💥

retro:electro

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am more worried that they keep people lockdowned for too long and it will be like a pressure cooker exploding . They made that mistake at Christmas and am worried they will do it again
Personally speaking I have done everything right since last March and tried my absolute best to stay within restrictions . But if the 5kms is not lifted by March the 5th I am throwing in that towel and going beyond it to the beach

I feel the same as you. I’ve done all that has been asked thus far. I’ve worn my mask, kept my distance, kept within my 5k but cases are still averaging at 1000 a day and this leads me to believe that there’s an element to this that is beyond the control of the general public. Yet we are the ones who have been given the responsibility of getting this in order before we have the privilege of accessing public services again. We can hold firm, stay strong and do this for the greater good for only so long because once you start to realise that there is no greater good, then what’s the point? There seems to be no end in sight. I’m a strong person and believe me when I say I’ve been though worse than this, but my mental health is wavering. I’m not sure how much of this I can take. All of the things that keep me sane, that keep me ticking over and give me a purpose in life have been taken away with no date given as to when they will resume. If this goes on until May it will be 8 months of level 5 with a three week break in between. You’d get a prison sentence that serves less. It’s soul destroying and akin to mental abuse. What is the point in living when everything that makes it all worthwhile is relentlessly taken away? Take take take, blame blame blame, and just shrug your shoulders and say “good but not good enough”, it’s mentally destroying.

Plumbthedepths

mcburns07 wrote: »

You're blaming people for being human. Everything we're being asked to do right now goes against so many things that we're genetically pre disposed to seek out.... Of course some people are going to let loose when finally released from this misery. We all have different levels of self control and motivations.

They also conveniently forgot before the restrictions were lifted previous to Christmas people were told we would be back in lockdown in January. It was crazy to allow that into the public domain. People fitted in as much as they could in the short window they knew they had. Many were sensible and took things easy but plenty didn't, but I still believe Christmas was set up to fail. Now the politicians are terrified of making a decision other than to defer to Tony.

TonyMaloney

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Just to be pedantic I am a she !!!
Nope I will do it and at the same time let others make up their own mind . At this stage the 5kms is a nonsense in my opinion

That's the second time I've done that in two days. If it's any consolation, it really annoys me that I constantly assume everyone here is a man. Apologies.

5km is an arbitrary number. It was chosen because it's the kind of number we like. 4km would've been weird.
Go to the beach. You risk a fine, but you'll probably get away with it.
Just stop broadcasting it please

iamwhoiam

retro:electro wrote: »

I feel the same as you. I’ve done all that has been asked thus far. I’ve worn my mask, kept my distance, kept within my 5k but cases are still averaging at 1000 a day and this leads me to believe that there’s an element to this that is beyond the control of the general public. Yet we are the ones who have been given the responsibility of getting this in order before we have the privilege of accessing public services again. We can hold firm, stay strong and do this for the greater good for only so long because once you start to realise that there is no greater good, then what’s the point? There seems to be no end in sight. I’m a strong person and believe me when I say I’ve been though worse than this, but my mental health is wavering. I’m not sure how much of this I can take. All of the things that keep me sane, that keep me ticking over and give me a purpose in life have been taken away with no date given as to when they will resume. If this goes on until May it will be 8 months of level 5 with a three week break in between. You’d get a prison sentence that serves less. It’s soul destroying and akin to mental abuse. What is the point in living of everything that makes it all worthwhile is relentlessly taken away? Take take take, blame blame blame, and just shrug your shoulders and say “good but not good enough”, it’s mentally destroying.

You are definitely not alone in this . Especially in Dublin where its been a relentless lockdown since god only knowns
People more and more are struggling with this and strong people are wavering now
I feel on edge every time I see MM face and dread what he might say .
Its the constant blame that is upsetting people when we know a large amount of cases are happening in hospitals .
Why is this happening and why are the public asked to shoulder the blame for a not fit for purpose health system .
We are ignoring the elephant in the room and that is that our health system will crumble because it is inadequate and unable to cope with a small increase of demand

You are not alone in your feeling retro , so many struggling now
Take care and stay strong

Russman

iamwhoiam wrote: »

But how do we know its pretty close to the plan ? They tell us nothing except it will last till April or May and wind people up no end with the lack of some sort of of plan

I think they can’t or don’t want to commit to something that might not be doable. If they say they plan that X will happen on such a date and for whatever reason, circumstances don’t allow it, you’ll get the usual whingers saying they lied, they don’t know what they’re doing, Tony hates pubs/people/mince pies/whatever.

My own gut feeling is that unofficially it will be the numbers vaccinated that determine what opens and the supply issues with Astra Zeneca have thrown a big spanner in the works for them.

iamwhoiam

TonyMaloney wrote: »

That's the second time I've done that in two days. If it's any consolation, it really annoys me that I constantly assume everyone here is a man. Apologies.

5km is an arbitrary number. It was chosen because it's the kind of number we like. 4km would've been weird.
Go to the beach. You risk a fine, but you'll probably get away with it.
Just stop broadcasting it please

No idea why I shouldn’t broadcast it ! It not like I am organising a convoy . !

Purple Mountain

retro:electro wrote: »

I feel the same as you. I’ve done all that has been asked thus far. I’ve worn my mask, kept my distance, kept within my 5k but cases are still averaging at 1000 a day and this leads me to believe that there’s an element to this that is beyond the control of the general public. Yet we are the ones who have been given the responsibility of getting this in order before we have the privilege of accessing public services again. We can hold firm, stay strong and do this for the greater good for only so long because once you start to realise that there is no greater good, then what’s the point? There seems to be no end in sight. I’m a strong person and believe me when I say I’ve been though worse than this, but my mental health is wavering. I’m not sure how much of this I can take. All of the things that keep me sane, that keep me ticking over and give me a purpose in life have been taken away with no date given as to when they will resume. If this goes on until May it will be 8 months of level 5 with a three week break in between. You’d get a prison sentence that serves less. It’s soul destroying and akin to mental abuse. What is the point in living when everything that makes it all worthwhile is relentlessly taken away? Take take take, blame blame blame, and just shrug your shoulders and say “good but not good enough”, it’s mentally destroying.

I find it akin to the brainwashing that was peddled during the recession: 'don the green jersey'.
In other words, let the ordinary plebs who never had anything in the first place anyhow absorb the mess while the fat cats continue to be untouched or unpunished.

mcburns07

Russman wrote: »

I think they can’t or don’t want to commit to something that might not be doable. If they say they plan that X will happen on such a date and for whatever reason, circumstances don’t allow it, you’ll get the usual whingers saying they lied, they don’t know what they’re doing, Tony hates pubs/people/mince pies/whatever.

My own gut feeling is that unofficially it will be the numbers vaccinated that determine what opens and the supply issues with Astra Zeneca have thrown a big spanner in the works for them.

OH's sister lives in Canada, they eased some restrictions this week, next review is in 3 weeks, if hospitalisations (Not cases!) are below a defined target then they can move to the next level down.

We could all do with some clarity right about now on what the targets are and what happens when we meet them....

Plumbthedepths

Purple Mountain wrote: »

I find it akin to the brainwashing that was peddled during the recession: 'don the green jersey'.
In other words, let the ordinary plebs who never had anything in the first place anyhow absorb the mess while the fat cats continue to be untouched or unpunished.

Not really much different this time either, even Leo admitted the people putting restrictions in place wouldn't be going on PUP.

Dickie10

yes it seems mental health is our biggest concern now above covid, now vaccinations are here, heard of two suicides this week. when over 70s are done things need to open , theres not one person who dosent agree with me that i have said this to in last few weeks

Plumbthedepths

Dickie10 wrote: »

yes it seems mental health is our biggest concern now above covid, now vaccinations are here, heard of two suicides this week. when over 70s are done things need to open , theres not one person who dosent agree with me that i have said this to in last few weeks

Mentioning mental health here will get accusations of pushing an agenda and a claim you don't get a rat's ass about mental health.
Although I agree with you, outside of Ireland mental health is being described as a time bomb with the fuse lit.

Russman

mcburns07 wrote: »

OH's sister lives in Canada, they eased some restrictions this week, next review is in 3 weeks, if hospitalisations (Not cases!) are below a defined target then they can move to the next level down.

We could all do with some clarity right about now on what the targets are and what happens when we meet them....

I don’t disagree with that at all, it makes perfect sense. The only issue I’d have is what happens if we’re nearly at a target but not quite there ? Last week it was still nearly a month away and the journos were asking would XYZ open on 5th March ! How can anyone know what will happen in 4 weeks. They got badly burned at Christmas when people went bananas so they’re bound to be ultra cautious. I dunno, I mean, we’ve people booking fake dentist appointments in Tenerife to justify a holiday in the middle of a pandemic, I think it’s reasonable for government to be wary of what might happen if they open too soon, sh1t as it is all round.

TonyMaloney

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Mentioning mental health here will get accusations of pushing an agenda and a claim you don't get a rat's ass about mental health.
Although I agree with you, outside of Ireland mental health is being described as a time bomb with the fuse lit.

Ok. Do you give a rats ass about mental health issues caused by covid?

I'm sure as usual your silence will speak volumes