Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

retro:electro

seamus wrote: »

I'm just pointing out that we will not be in level 5 for the entire first half of the year, so there's no need to get yourself into a tiz about something that won't happen. End of April would be bad enough, but even that's unlikely to come to pass.

You cannot accuse people of “getting into a tiz” for reacting on information that has come directly from government. Micheál said in an interview last week that he does not see personal services opening until the late stages of quarter 2; ie June. That is six months without those services and while they were deemed unnecessary for the two weeks while we flattened the curve, six months down the line they are pretty necessary. Hair cuts and other personal services are not permitted currently until level 3, so by Micheál stating that it is clear he sees us being in at least level 4 until the end of June, and if this new plan is anything like the last sure level 4 and level 5 are basically two cheeks of the same arse.

People are not working off speculation here, but information that has come directly from the horse’s mouth. Airing grievances and frustrations about that is not “getting in a tiz”, it’s extremely rational at this point to be frustrated and overwhelmed by that revelation.

SeaMermaid

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Cant see huge drops in cases going forward. Especially when schools open . People have had enough

Its time for the vaccines to have an affect instead

Enough of what? Being protected by a public health strategy to minimise spread of a highly infectious disease? I have enough of lockdown and I am sick of it too but it's not about me and only me. If everyone adopted this attitude it will spread rapidly and we will see many kore people become sick and ill and many more deaths too. I know many people are callous and like to write deaths off as those who were coffin dodgers but that wasn't the case. Viral cases have to come down more for a successful reopening.

WoollyRedHat

Does anyone know when plan is going to be published?

The Cabinet is meeting to sign off on the plan and it has been acknowledged that the immediate period ahead will be difficult with Level 5 restrictions set to be extended until at least 5 April.

The plan will see the Pandemic Unemployment Payment and supports for businesses extended until the end of June.

This is it...!?

What a total disgrace.

Stheno

Happydays2020 wrote: »

If this is true, it is quite sinister

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1364193937955692545?s=21

Fits with the "vaccines won't work" guff that McConkey and Killeen have been coming out with the past few days

celt262

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

Does anyone know when plan is going to be published?

Probably have to have a few more meetings and then let the Minister for Health know whats going on so he doesn't make a tit of himself again.

iamwhoiam

celt262 wrote: »

Probably have to have a few more meetings and then let the Minister for Health know whats going on so he doesn't make a tit of himself again.

And let Norma in on the secret so she knows what classes are going back and not come out with some complete rubbish

Sconsey

Deleted User wrote: »

This is what happens when you give awkward scientists the opportunity to wield political power.

The pandemic, for them, is an opportunity to perform an experiment; a poor experiment and one with disastrous results. And naturally, they care nothing for ordinary people - all that matters is the lab results and crunching numbers.

Professor Nolan and the Eternal Prefect, Ronan Glynn, exemplify this attitude.

It's now time for the politicians to take back control - to take "advice" from NPHET and to factor that advice into the many other factors that go into running a successful country.

We don't want Michael Martin to throw us a bone; this time, there must be some substantial meat attached.

Otherwise, people will grow lethargic and more likely to breach restrictions.

The perma-lockdown hasn't worked. It's time, like the rest of Europe, to move on and open up to a reasonable, sensible, mature, and cautious degree.

If other European countries have so far managed opening up successfully, there is no reason why we are unable to, either.

You don't really believe that horsesh1t you have written do you?

Stheno

Deleted User wrote: »

This is it...!?

What a total disgrace.

Have you been living under a rock?

This has been leaked for days!

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

Have you been living under a rock?

This has been leaked for days!

I had hoped, given the vocal frustrations leveled against Martin and the clear desire by most of the population for some sort of positive hope, that some significant tweaks would have been made.

But no, it's back to Level 5 for at least the next 5+ weeks.

Arghus

Happydays2020 wrote: »

If this is true, it is quite sinister

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1364193937955692545?s=21

If you read through it, there isn't a single verifiable claim anywhere in that article.

What are their sources? Who are they quoting?

Doesn’t appear to be much to it. They've just picked random quotes from a psychology textbook and have alleged that certain people have said these things - without being clear about who said it, who they said it to, or where they said it. There's little to nothing of actual substance there.

CruelSummer

Happydays2020 wrote: »

If this is true, it is quite sinister

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1364193937955692545?s=21

This group need to be taken off air immediately or at the very least challenged hard by presenters. Yesterday trying to stop schools reopening, claiming vaccines don't work...there is no balance to the debate in Ireland and we've normalised the extremists. Shame on the media for promoting this shower.

Atlantic Dawn

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

The big man is giving his speech at 6 so probably around then.

If he drops the 5km limit he will regain the attention of some of the flock.

Plumbthedepths

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If he drops the 5km limit he will regain the attention of some of the flock.

He won't because they tied non evictions into the 5km travel restrictions. Drop the restriction and evictions are on the cards again. Clever or a sign our legislators are fùckwits.

Beasty

Deleted User wrote: »

The pandemic, for them, is an opportunity to perform an experiment;

Threadbanned

dalyboy

CruelSummer wrote: »

This group need to be taken off air immediately or at the very least challenged hard by presenters. Yesterday trying to stop schools reopening, claiming vaccines don't work...there is no balance to the debate in Ireland and we've normalised the extremists. Shame on the media for promoting this shower.

https://mobile.twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1364193937955692545

This is ground breaking stuff.
There needs to be an investigation done into this if further evidence is provided.
Legal action against these loopers should follow.

It’s not if , it’s when will the anti-science media supporters run for the hills.

Stheno

Deleted User wrote: »

I had hoped, given the vocal frustrations leveled against Martin and the clear desire by most of the population for some sort of positive hope, that some significant tweaks would have been made.

But no, it's back to Level 5 for at least the next 5+ weeks.

Ah you had hope

There's the problem right there

Sweet.Science

Happydays2020 wrote: »

If this is true, it is quite sinister

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1364193937955692545?s=21

Sinister but not overly surprising

Turtwig

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

No evidence so. Grand job.

The wikipedia article on isn't a bad place to start.
Raind made an excellent post on it in somewhere in an earlier thread.

In short contact tracing in the UK showed an increased positivity rate among close contacts. The indication there would be a higher attack rate for this variant. This has also now been observed in Ireland in close contacts. Even if Mr Reid and Mr Donnelly make an absolute shambles of explaining that. The variant itself has a higher binding affinity in the binding domain of the virus. This indicates a physical mechanism by which it would be more transmissible. Mathematical modelling in the UK and now our own universities also support the increased transmissibility. US CDC models also similar.

Happydays2020

Arghus wrote: »

If you read through it, there isn't a single verifiable claim anywhere in that article.

What are their sources? Who are they quoting?

Doesn’t appear to be much to it. They've just picked random quotes from a psychology textbook and have alleged that certain people have said these things - without being clear about who said it, who they said it to, or where they said it. There's little to nothing of actual substance there.

I said “if this is true” and it has been quoted elsewhere with that same question.

Saying that we have seen some strong and well publicised negative messages in recent days on the effectiveness of vaccinations.

lawred2

CruelSummer wrote: »

This group need to be taken off air immediately or at the very least challenged hard by presenters. Yesterday trying to stop schools reopening, claiming vaccines don't work...there is no balance to the debate in Ireland and we've normalised the extremists. Shame on the media for promoting this shower.

Aren't our media fully engaged with this behavior already?

CruelSummer

Arghus wrote: »

If you read through it, there isn't a single verifiable claim anywhere in that article.

What are their sources? Who are they quoting?

Doesn’t appear to be much to it. They've just picked random quotes from a psychology textbook and have alleged that certain people have said these things - without being clear about who said it, who they said it to, or where they said it. There's little to nothing of actual substance there.

MrMusician18

Kha1993 wrote: »

Not sure where anyone is saying to ignore it. The solution is to continue level 5 but with some low risk activities open outdoors, a relaxation of a law that can fine you for going over 5km past your house and then relax further in line with vaccinations.

Not sure where anyone mentioned “ignore it”. Hyperbole of the highest order. Along with the usual blame the public schtick.

And if we’re going down the road of the deadly variant being our Christmas present - then *WE* certainly didn’t give that to ourselves.

There have been several posts on this forum where individuals have been advocating for people to not present for tests. Looks like an "ignore it" position to me.

Arghus

dalyboy wrote: »

https://mobile.twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1364193937955692545

This is ground breaking stuff.
There needs to be an investigation done into this if further evidence is provided.
Legal action against these loopers should follow.

It’s not if , it’s when will the anti-science media supporters run for the hills.

It isn't groundbreaking stuff, it's a load of unsubstantiated hearsay.

Gript are making claims without providing any evidence. Surely you'd want to see to see evidence before you believe such things?

This tweet is going to circulate around and get talked about and will be accepted as fact by some people, but, if you look at it, there's no hard evidence for the things that the article alleges.

It's boilerplate misinformation designed to generate clicks and "engagement".

Turtwig

Happydays2020 wrote: »

If this is true, it is quite sinister

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1364193937955692545?s=21

I don't like some of what the ISAG group say but this is gript media. That's about as reliable a source as Donald's Trump rectum. Would need something a lot more substantial than that.

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Yes, if you give a strain an inherent advantage it will grow to be the dominant strain.
If a strain is given no advantage but grows to become the dominant strain anyway, then it is strong evidence that it is more transmissible.

Please stop. There are many pathways to dominance. It does not have to more transmissible. The advantages that make a strain fittest for replication may not necessarily make it more transmissible.

Arghus

CruelSummer wrote: »

But it is unsubstantiated hearsay. That is what it is. Read through it again. Where's their evidence?

bodhrandude

I'm in a shared house and the landlords have been wanting to sell the place since September 2019, but because of the pandemic and lockdown, they have given us extensions. So no matter how much I want the lockdown over, I'm glad we're stuck in this 5 KM rule. Our latest extension is till the start of June and unless the government change tenants rights with a longer distance added, I'm happy sticking to this 5 KM rule. Another problem with the current situation though is that we can't view other houses because of the rule, so we can't even shop around for a new gaff.

Plumbthedepths

Arghus wrote: »

It isn't groundbreaking stuff, it's a load of unsubstantiated hearsay.

Gript are making claims without providing any evidence. Surely you'd want to see to see evidence before you believe such things?

This tweet is going to circulate around and get talked about and will be accepted as fact by some people, but, if you look at it, there's no hard evidence for the things that the article alleges.

It's boilerplate misinformation designed to generate clicks and "engagement".

You're right about the tweet, in isolation it seems likely to be guesswork. However a poster mentioned that two individuals that are part of the ISAG group were on the Matt Cooper show yesterday basically dismissing vaccines as non effective, further to that Tomas Ryan had an opinion piece in the Indo about the dangers of a return to school another ISAG member. It's a strange coincidence imo.

Ficheall

Happydays2020 wrote: »

If this is true, it is quite sinister

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1364193937955692545?s=21

Fyp.

CruelSummer

Arghus wrote: »

But it is unsubstantiated hearsay. That is what it is. Read through it again. Where's their evidence?

I agree there needs to be evidence provided otherwise it’s just hot air. However if evidence is provided what would your opinion be?

Sofa King Great

bodhrandude wrote: »

I'm in a shared house and the landlords want to sell the place since September 2019, but because of the pandemic and lockdown, they have given us extensions. So no matter how much I want the lockdown over, I'm glad we're stuck in this 5 KM rule. Our latest extension is till the start of June and unless the government change tenants rights with a longer distance added, I'm happy sticking to this 5 KM rule. Another problem with the current situation though is that we can't view other houses because of the rule, so we can't even shop around for a new gaff.

Obviously it is a bit **** if you have to move out but imagine how **** that must be for the property owner - not even allowed sell their own property and possibly incurring costs to keep it

wadacrack

Thread is becoming like a conspiracy theories now on Covid. Were dealing with a virus that's more serious and more transmissible. Data does not lie. Theirs no credible evidence scientists in Ireland are trying to inflict fear on the entire nation. People are tired and fatigued and in a vulnerable state of mind. Its understandable I guess some are failing to look at the situation logically. Its going to get better but not as quickly as we had hoped when the vaccines were approved in December. Hopefully some goo news on the J & J vaccine in the next few weeks can accelerate the rollout.

Plumbthedepths

Ficheall wrote: »

Fyp.

How did you fix a post by using the exact same words in the same order as the OP? Is it the slight angle on the 'if'.
Btw the OP already acknowledged the 'If' caveat.

stephenjmcd

645 swabs from 13,841 tests. 4.66%

Drops the 7 day rate to 5.1 from 5.3

Hulk Hands

Arghus wrote: »

It isn't groundbreaking stuff, it's a load of unsubstantiated hearsay.

Gript are making claims without providing any evidence. Surely you'd want to see to see evidence before you believe such things?

This tweet is going to circulate around and get talked about and will be accepted as fact by some people, but, if you look at it, there's no hard evidence for the things that the article alleges.

It's boilerplate misinformation designed to generate clicks and "engagement".

How do you know, exactly?

You're guilty of exactly the same thing you're accusing others of, of accepting something as a definite without evidence. You have no idea if this is true or not but are dismissing it as 'boilerplate misinformation'.

The onus is on the publication to release their copy of the email. Until then nobody knows either way. The author seems to be confident in his assertions but again, none of us know

https://twitter.com/G_L_Kavanagh/status/1364212835769856001

CruelSummer

wadacrack wrote: »

Thread is becoming like a conspiracy theories now on Covid. Were dealing with a virus that's more serious and more transmissible. Data does not lie. Theirs no credible evidence scientists in Ireland are trying to inflict fear on the entire nation. People are tired and fatigued and in a vulnerable state of mind. Its understandable I guess some are failing to look at the situation logically. Its going to get better but not as quickly as we had hoped when the vaccines were approved in December. Hopefully some goo news on the J & J vaccine in the next few weeks can accelerate the rollout.

And what about the Professors on the radio yesterday - Staines and Killeen that stated that the vaccines won’t work - and that the only way out is through zero Covid and a harsher lockdown to get there - then County by County basis from there on out on who’s lucky enough to be allowed to live. The conspiracy theories dig doesn’t wash when you’ve Professors, NPHET and Government shifting the goalposts and keeping us in lockdown indefinitely, banning indoor dining for the summer of 2021, and foreign travel. Meanwhile our nearest neighbour sets a timeline to be fully opened by end of June.

Turtwig

CruelSummer wrote: »

This group need to be taken off air immediately or at the very least challenged hard by presenters. Yesterday trying to stop schools reopening, claiming vaccines don't work...there is no balance to the debate in Ireland and we've normalised the extremists. Shame on the media for promoting this shower.

I thought Ryan's point on schools was a salient one. There's no reason why they shouldn't try reopening schools where COVID is practically zero in the community. Some locales still have a very high incidence rate. There is a significant difference in the level of risk between opening a school in Cork compared to a school in Offaly. Ryan's point that schools should be based on the community level of infection is a very fair one. Determining all schools on a national level is inefficient.

Gruffalux

CruelSummer wrote: »

I agree there needs to be evidence provided otherwise it’s just hot air. However if evidence is provided what would your opinion be?

My opinion, if the leak is true, would be that it is quite weird. Not good at all.

Makes me also think with the way things leak so freely these days we should only ever talk about important stuff in person in a huge field far from all habitation with a cone of silence over our heads :pac:

Arghus

CruelSummer wrote: »

I agree there needs to be evidence provided otherwise it’s just hot air. However if evidence is provided what would your opinion be?

If the facts change I change my mind.

But there's no actual facts there.

But, even the way this conversation were having about it is framed is in a manner that gript would have intended.

They published an article - without any substance or verified facts - it gets retweeted, linked, posted...whatever and the conversation becomes about the maybe's, could have's and possibly's that are only part of the conversation because they were alleged, without evidence, in the initial piece.

bennyl10

CruelSummer wrote: »

I agree there needs to be evidence provided otherwise it’s just hot air. However if evidence is provided what would your opinion be?

it's gript. there wont be evidence, its bs to get a reaction, similar to the liberal etc

It's like trusting OAN with american election stuff

wadacrack

CruelSummer wrote: »

And what about the Professors on the radio yesterday - Staines and Killeen that stated that the vaccines won’t work - and that the only way out is through zero Covid and a harsher lockdown to get there - then County by County basis from there on out on who’s lucky enough to be allowed to live. The conspiracy theories dig doesn’t wash when you’ve Professors, NPHET and Government shifting the goalposts and keeping us in lockdown indefinitely, banning indoor dining for the summer of 2021, and foreign travel. Meanwhile our nearest neighbour sets a timeline to be fully opened by end of June.

I just that's their opinion, some evidence in Manuas Brazil of that.
Important to remember that if it goes well , we will copy that model. We know we lack leadership essentially just waiting for a template to follow. John Campbell who I think is very credible and has been extremely accurate so far, thinks its a good plan. That's encouraging for me.

igCorcaigh

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1364218149776863239?s=19

normanoffside

stephenjmcd wrote: »

645 swabs from 13,841 tests. 4.66%

Drops the 7 day rate to 5.1 from 5.3

The Positivity rate of this virus going down but the negativity rate of the Government and media is going up.

seamus

stephenjmcd wrote: »

645 swabs from 13,841 tests. 4.66%

Drops the 7 day rate to 5.1 from 5.3

It's a good outcome today across all metrics.

I have a speculation, but I've no idea if it'll pan out or if it's just wishful thinking;

When we started testing close contacts, we locked ourselves into testing entire chains of infection that would have been missed before.

That is, someone tests positive. That kicks off contact tracing and testing. Some of those contacts test positive. That kicks off new chains of tracing and testing.

And so on. That commits us to continuing to test these chains of infection until we hit the bottom - until we reach the point where there are way less close contacts to test.

And hitting the bottom would likely take a few weeks.

During those few weeks, the numbers will be a bit weird, like we've seen now. Flat some days, up the next, down the next. You see people asking, "Where TF are all these infections coming from?". And this would answer that question.

Again, all speculation. When we get to the end of these infection chains though, we would expect to see a significant drop-off in infection numbers. Which going by my speculation/hopeless optimisim, would be around now.

Plumbthedepths

Given the litigious nature of Irish society it seems quite stupid of the author of the Gript piece naming individuals if he has no evidence.
Hope he has deep pockets to quote a phrase used on the restrictions thread.

Stheno

stephenjmcd wrote: »

645 swabs from 13,841 tests. 4.66%

Drops the 7 day rate to 5.1 from 5.3

Good to see it drop below five.

Hopefully it will continue

seamus

retro:electro wrote: »

Hair cuts and other personal services are not permitted currently until level 3, so by Micheál stating that it is clear he sees us being in at least level 4 until the end of June, and if this new plan is anything like the last sure level 4 and level 5 are basically two cheeks of the same arse.

Again, the assertion was made by the poster that we would be in lockdown/level 5 until the end of June. That's what I responded to.

Nobody at any stage has said that lockdown will continue to the end of June.

I completely understand the frustration and confusion. But it's also easy to know what hasn't been said. By all means get annoyed about the confusing parts, but getting worked up about stuff that nobody has said, will do you no good.

Arghus wrote: »

It isn't groundbreaking stuff, it's a load of unsubstantiated hearsay.

Gript are making claims without providing any evidence. Surely you'd want to see to see evidence before you believe such things?

I wouldn't be surprised if it's legit, but it's also not the sinister stuff that Gript want to claim it is.

ISAG is backed by a fairly decent number of left groups, for whom socialism is not a naughty word. For the likes of Gript, the word "Marxism" is synonymous with Satan, but in the real world it's just economic theory.

The use of protest tactics to get their message across, while it makes a mockery of ISAG's "science-based" claims, isn't the sinister insurrectionism that lunatics like Gript are implying.

quokula

wadacrack wrote: »

I just that's their opinion, some evidence in Manuas Brazil of that.
Important to remember that if it goes well , we will copy that model. We know we lack leadership essentially just waiting for a template to follow. John Campbell who I think is very credible and has been extremely accurate so far, thinks its a good plan. That's encouraging for me.

The revisionism here is astounding - the UK government has consistently been a disaster throughout the pandemic and has regularly been well behind Ireland in locking down in time and reacting to the reality of the data and the science. That's the reason why hundreds of thousands of people in the UK are grieving for lost family members and a proportionally much more tiny percentage of people here have been left in that same situation.

They've tried to open up too quickly and put money ahead of health repeatedly, brought in disastrous schemes like eat out to help out, killed many thousands of people in the process, and people are still falling for it? How?

They're ahead of the curve on vaccine rollout thanks to AZ reneging on their commitments to the EU, so maybe it will be different for them this time. But to suggest that Ireland has always just followed their lead through the pandemic is just utterly wrong when we've consistently handled the situation so much better than them.

Tyrone212

Happydays2020 wrote: »

If this is true, it is quite sinister

https://twitter.com/griptmedia/status/1364193937955692545?s=21

Gript is full of loons, more like an American conspiracy entity than anything else. They'd make the daily mail look reputable. The government message is confusing and the over riding emotion they are producing is anger due to the mixed messaging so I doubt that's true.

stephenjmcd

seamus wrote: »

It's a good outcome today across all metrics.

I have a speculation, but I've no idea if it'll pan out or if it's just wishful thinking;

When we started testing close contacts, we locked ourselves into testing entire chains of infection that would have been missed before.

That is, someone tests positive. That kicks off contact tracing and testing. Some of those contacts test positive. That kicks off new chains of tracing and testing.

And so on. That commits us to continuing to test these chains of infection until we hit the bottom - until we reach the point where there are way less close contacts to test.

And hitting the bottom would likely take a few weeks.

During those few weeks, the numbers will be a bit weird, like we've seen now. Flat some days, up the next, down the next. You see people asking, "Where TF are all these infections coming from?". And this would answer that question.

Again, all speculation. When we get to the end of these infection chains though, we would expect to see a significant drop-off in infection numbers. Which going by my speculation/hopeless optimisim, would be around now.

Would make sense really. The testing of close contacts helps of course, your catching cases you would have missed otherwise