Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

Stateofyou

is_that_so wrote: »

Having 700m people on our doorstep is the point but you knew that.

A region has nothing to do with "on our doorstep," but you knew that.

Stateofyou

is_that_so wrote: »

Well if vaccines work as expected they should have no need to. Let's not forget the primary aim of vaccines is to eliminate severe cases, hospitalisations and offer the body a level of immunity.

The virus can mutate in a manner that escapes high success of vaccines. So the other poster has a valid opinion.

TonyMaloney

is_that_so wrote: »

Well if vaccines work as expected they should have no need to. Let's not forget the primary aim of vaccines is to eliminate severe cases, hospitalisations and offer the body a level of immunity.

That's a massive if.
And there's emerging evidence that some vaccines are far less effective than hoped on certain strains.

I mean that's a big part of the reason why they're not letting us off the leash once the most vulnerable are juiced up.
One fear is the hospitals filling up with younger people if we open up at that stage. The other is mutations occurring in the unvaccinated population, and setting us back to square one.

That fear doesn't go away, even at full immunity, if you have open borders

Plumbthedepths

b0nk1e wrote: »

Fanaticism is so passé.



The glib sneering by lockdown people about the destruction of Irish business really is appalling.

There was a poster here only a few days ago suggesting only the non productive sectors are closed. Obviously clueless as to what the hospitality sector contributes to state coffers and the employment the sector generates.

is_that_so

Stateofyou wrote: »

The virus can mutate in a manner that escapes high success of vaccines. So the other poster has a valid opinion.

No they don't, not yet. They are still effective.

Akabusi

Stateofyou wrote: »

The virus can mutate in a manner that escapes high success of vaccines. So the other poster has a valid opinion.

Can it?

Plumbthedepths

Stateofyou wrote: »

The virus can mutate in a manner that escapes high success of vaccines. So the other poster has a valid opinion.

It can also mutate into something no more harmful than a head old.

is_that_so

TonyMaloney wrote: »

That's a massive if.
And there's emerging evidence that some vaccines are far less effective than hoped on certain strains.

I mean that's a big part of the reason why they're not letting us off the leash once the most vulnerable are juiced up.
One fear is the hospitals filling up with younger people if we open up at that stage. The other is mutations occurring in the unvaccinated population, and setting us back to square one.

That fear doesn't go away, even at full immunity, if you have open borders

I think you need to shake off that fear thing! It holds people back from a balanced perspective. Early Israeli data suggests your concern is misplaced. We can tweak vaccines as required.

Stateofyou

is_that_so wrote: »

No they don't, not yet. They are still effective.

Akabusi wrote: »

Can it?

It already has. Immunologists and other scientists have been worried about this for a while now. Hasn't SA shut down it's vaccination program over their new strain?

is_that_so

Akabusi wrote: »

Can it?

No, they still work, just some of them not quite as well with certain variants, the most notable of these is the SA variant. Vaccines will be adjusted.

is_that_so

Stateofyou wrote: »

It already has. Immunologists and other scientists have been worried about this for a while now. Hasn't SA shut down it's vaccination program over their new strain?

It was based on a very small study of young people.

TonyMaloney

is_that_so wrote: »

No they don't, not yet. They are still effective.

South Africa are looking to get rid of 1,000,000 doses of AstraZeneca. They don't want to use it on any portion of their population.
We've had 11 known cases of their variant detected here so far, and we don't do a huge amount of sequencing.

That said, with the variants we know of and all the vaccines that will be available to us, hopefully we should be ok.
But it's far from certain.

TonyMaloney

is_that_so wrote: »

I think you need to shake off that fear thing! It holds people back from a balanced perspective. Early Israeli data suggests your concern is misplaced. We can tweak vaccines as required.

Yeah, how long does it take to tweak and revaccinate an entire population?

What would we do while we wait?

CalamariFritti

TonyMaloney wrote: »

That's a massive if.
And there's emerging evidence that some vaccines are far less effective than hoped on certain strains.

I mean that's a big part of the reason why they're not letting us off the leash once the most vulnerable are juiced up.
One fear is the hospitals filling up with younger people if we open up at that stage. The other is mutations occurring in the unvaccinated population, and setting us back to square one.

That fear doesn't go away, even at full immunity, if you have open borders

But the thing is strains happen all the time. Apparently we've had over 4,000 since this thing started. 4,000 they know of. And the dominant ones were replaced several times. Its only now that we get all worked up over them.

if we stay paralysed in fear over something that may or may not happen we will stay in corona paralysis forever. After all tomorrow some flu or other virus may mutate into something more dangerous. What are we saying? Give it another year or two, just in case? Why not stay restricted forever if the fear doesnt go away?

is_that_so

TonyMaloney wrote: »

South Africa are looking to get rid of 1,000,000 doses of AstraZeneca. They don't want to use it on any portion of their population.
We've had 11 known cases of their variant detected here so far, and we don't do a huge amount of sequencing.

That said, with the variants we know of and all the vaccines that will be available to us, hopefully we should be ok.
But it's far from certain.

I'm far more inclined towards OK. I do think this running commentary from scientists and politician is not helpful as it tends to flip from the truly grim to utopia in equal measures.

is_that_so

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Yeah, how long does it take to tweak and revaccinate an entire population?

What would we do while we wait?

From bits of reading I've been doing, the thinking looks to be more to give boosters to those most at risk, a bit like the flu' jabs. The timeline seems to range from weeks with BionTech to later in the year for the other two.

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

I'm far more inclined towards OK. I do think this running commentary from scientists and politician is not helpful as it tends to flip from the truly grim to utopia in equal measures.

Kingston Mills is very level headed compared to some of the experts who frequent the airwaves. Hes confident the vaccines will work and due to the nature of some of the vaccines 'tweeting' is not an issue.

Kunta Kinte

CalamariFritti wrote: »

But the thing is strains happen all the time. Apparently we've had over 4,000 since this thing started. 4,000 they know of. And the dominant ones were replaced several times. Its only now that we get all worked up over them.

if we stay paralysed in fear over something that may or may not happen we will stay in corona paralysis forever. After all tomorrow some flu or other virus may mutate into something more dangerous. What are we saying? Give it another year or two, just in case? Why not stay restricted forever if the fear doesnt go away?

Evidence for this claim?

is_that_so

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Evidence for this claim?

I believe it's actually over 360,000 genomes or variants!

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00065-4

Akabusi

is_that_so wrote: »

No, they still work, just some of them not quite as well with certain variants, the most notable of these is the SA variant. Vaccines will be adjusted.

That was my thinking. Thanks

The reason the impact of this virus was so severe was because it was novel. Immune systems had no experience of anything very similar. Once vaccinated, any slight variants wont be novel to the immune system. So while the possibility will exist that many could get infected with the SA variant post vaccination, it wont have anything close to the same impact on the vast majority of the population. It will be just another cold for all but the most vulnerable and the unlucky few who have had a poor immune response to the vaccine / prior infection.

TonyMaloney

TonyMaloney wrote: »

South Africa are looking to get rid of 1,000,000 doses of AstraZeneca. They don't want to use it on any portion of their population.
We've had 11 known cases of their variant detected here so far, and we don't do a huge amount of sequencing.

That said, with the variants we know of and all the vaccines that will be available to us, hopefully we should be ok.
But it's far from certain.

The vaccines will work just fine. They still offer more than enough protection against the new variants. Even if we need to provide a booster shot later in the year for the vulnerable then so be it.

Seriously. I'm sick of this whole narrative lately that the vaccines are going to fail.

Le Bruise

This is quite a good twitter account to follow.

https://twitter.com/sailorrooscout

Discusses the COVID vaccines/variants/mutations etc. They're a Molecular Biologist whose research focuses on uncovering mechanisms of viral pathogenesis and host immunity. Seem to know their stuff.

They're very positive too!

CalamariFritti

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

Evidence for this claim?

If you're debating strains and risks and opening up or not and you're expressing as strong an opinion as you do I suggest you keep yourself informed on the basic facts?

TonyMaloney

Hardyn wrote: »

The vaccines will work just fine. They still offer more than enough protection against the new variants. Even if we need to provide a booster shot later in the year for the vulnerable then so be it.

Seriously. I'm sick of this whole narrative lately that the vaccines are going to fail.

Well I've good news for you. You have the narrative all wrong.
The narrative is that strains pose a threat to our vaccination efforts. Not that they will fail.

I'm sick of the mantra coming from your side, where the "vaccines will work just fine" despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's just mindless optimism.

If you're sick of it all, stop seeking it out

big syke

TonyMaloney wrote: »

despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's just mindless optimism.

Go on humor me

TonyMaloney

big syke wrote: »

Go on humor me

I have zero interest in doing that, thanks. Read the news.

big syke

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I have zero interest in doing that, thanks. Read the news.

Just as i thought. No actual proof. Expect no less from you.

TonyMaloney

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Well I've good news for you. You have the narrative all wrong.
The narrative is that strains pose a threat to our vaccination efforts. Not that they will fail.

I'm sick of the mantra coming from your side, where the "vaccines will work just fine" despite all the evidence to the contrary. It's just mindless optimism.

If you're sick of it all, stop seeking it out

There has been no evidence that variants will have any impact of the ability of vaccines to prevent severe illness.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The reason the impact of this virus was so severe was because it was novel. Immune systems had no experience of anything very similar. Once vaccinated, any slight variants wont be novel to the immune system. So while the possibility will exist that many could get infected with the SA variant post vaccination, it wont have anything close to the same impact on the vast majority of the population. It will be just another cold for all but the most vulnerable and the unlucky few who have had a poor immune response to the vaccine / prior infection.

Nature conduced a survey of over 100 epidemiologists. 90% believe that the virus will become endemic.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00396-2