Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

Maxface

There is a difference between being a rebel and expecting your leaders to actually lead. Talk to the people and explain their thinking. Not leaks out of meetings to just gauge the feelings out there. Nobody is stupid, there is a virus out there, it can kill. We also have to live and indeed live with covid. Vaccines are hopefully a way out of this fully at some point but we will more than likely have to live with covid just like we live with the flu.

hmmm

WhiteMemento9 wrote: »

We are so close to a vaccine rollout which gives a proper safe route out of this situation. I know this isn't happening as quickly as people like but it is the end game and rushing into a plan without this isn't an option.

For all of the previous incompetence, I think the UK government have the messaging and strategy right.

It's about making sure that this is the last lockdown. So keep restrictions for longer, but when they reopen they want to get back to normality. It's a message which is both hopeful and grim, but it lets people know that their sacrifice is worth it.

Our messaging is simply grim. It seems to be lockdown till 2022 at least, the vaccines are helpful but won't fix anything, and the messaging around travel is chaotic. People aren't going to accept living like this forever, they have to be given some reason to hope for a return to a more normal life.

MerlinSouthDub

Hospital report is out

765 in hospital (nice drop from 813)
151 in ICU (same as last night but sadly 7 deaths)

TheDoctor

A nice drop indeed on the hospital numbers. Now below their peak from the April wave last year.

MrMusician18

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Martin having a laugh

They'll get away up to Easter

They better have a very good plan after that

They're losing people the further they delay and give society nothing to work towards

What exactly do you want government to do? Tell people that they'll start easing restrictions in X weeks? They do that people will stay behaviour like the restrictions don't exist in X-2weeks before the target is achieved.

Tell people that restrictions will be listed when daily cases are Y, people will start to ignore restrictions at Y +200, let alone be stable under Y for a week.

There is simply no way of giving a timeline for removing the restrictions without undermining them. This is a sad reality of our society.

We'd be out of this mess if people actually followed the restrictions and government guidelines properly. What are we expecting Martin to do, be there at your door to tell you that the "area shur the evening cans with the lads/drinkies with the girls is grand" is not on?

On the one hand we expect government to protect everyone's welfare yet seemingly object when it takes the necessary measures to ensure this.

KrustyUCC

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What exactly do you want government to do? Tell people that they'll start easing restrictions in X weeks? They do that people will stay behaviour like the restrictions don't exist in X-2weeks before the target is achieved.

Tell people that restrictions will be listed when daily cases are Y, people will start to ignore restrictions at Y +200, let alone be stable under Y for a week.

There is simply no way of giving a timeline for removing the restrictions without undermining them. This is a sad reality of our society.

We'd be out of this mess if people actually followed the restrictions and government guidelines properly. What are we expecting Martin to do, be there at your door to tell you that the "area shur the evening cans with the lads/drinkies with the girls is grand" is not on?

On the one hand we expect government to protect everyone's welfare yet seemingly object when it takes the necessary measures to ensure this.

I have a fairly long post on the previous page

You need to give people hope and yes you do need a plan with either dates or metrics underpinning easing of restrictions or preferably both

Be transparent

A living with covid plan with no dates is no plan at all

The government were well able to push out the reopening of wet pubs last summer past the dates in the plan

Plans are meant to be specific and timed

Not knowing on what basis restrictions will be eased allows the government to push out easing of restrictions indefinitely

Cases need to be 'as low as possible'

What does that mean? 10,20,40 cases?

The longer Martin and Co dilly dally and won't ease restrictions or the more people will ignore the current ones

Stheno

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What exactly do you want government to do? Tell people that they'll start easing restrictions in X weeks? They do that people will stay behaviour like the restrictions don't exist in X-2weeks before the target is achieved.

Tell people that restrictions will be listed when daily cases are Y, people will start to ignore restrictions at Y +200, let alone be stable under Y for a week.

There is simply no way of giving a timeline for removing the restrictions without undermining them. This is a sad reality of our society.

We'd be out of this mess if people actually followed the restrictions and government guidelines properly. What are we expecting Martin to do, be there at your door to tell you that the "area shur the evening cans with the lads/drinkies with the girls is grand" is not on?

On the one hand we expect government to protect everyone's welfare yet seemingly object when it takes the necessary measures to ensure this.

I have one expectation from this government when it comes to this pandemic and that is to communicate effectively and clearly, which is not happening for the general public

I'm coming up on a year of wfh, I've benefitted financially from this, can function work wise and I'm in a very stable relationship which tbh has strengthened during this past year.

I've got my coping mechanisms, and one of those in January was thinking it would be mid April for non essential retail and going beyond 5km

That appears to be gone

So apart from one necessary visit to the dentist, and visits by my plumber to fix my boiler, for five months, the only person I will interact with face to face will be my partner with whom I live, if 5km stays till May

Like I say no impact financially in fact I'm better off

But I miss human interaction desperately, my partner more so

I cannot imagine how awful this is for the half a million unemployed

The HorsesMouth

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Hospital report is out

765 in hospital (nice drop from 813)
151 in ICU (same as last night but sadly 7 deaths)

Massive drop from over 2000 to 765 in just under a month.
Just had a look back at May 2020( when restrictions began to be lifted) and on the 20th May there were 649 in hospital and 72 in ICU.
Two weeks or so later on June 7th there was 134 in hospital and 36 in ICU.

However there was only 51 cases confirmed that particular day(May 20th) Now I know its difficult to compare as our testing capacity and knowledge has ramped up a good deal but what is that telling us.
Can we compare then with now? Would it be possible to think we will be at 150-200 in hospital in three weeks?

Spanish Eyes

If you want to disobey the rules, off you go.

Why tell us, we don't care what you do, unless you infect all around you.

No point talking to those who haven't a clue either, sorry now. It will be all over with the J+J vaccine soon enough. Keep the faith. Not long to go now....

D.Q

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If you want to disobey the rules, off you go.

Why tell us, we don't care what you do, unless you infect all around you.

No point talking to those who haven't a clue either, sorry now. It will be all over with the J+J vaccine soon enough. Keep the faith. Not long to go now....

Gamechanger

Spanish Eyes

D.Q wrote: »

Gamechanger

Very hopefully

MrMusician18

Stheno wrote: »

I have one expectation from this government when it comes to this pandemic and that is to communicate effectively and clearly, which is not happening for the general public

I'm coming up on a year of wfh, I've benefitted financially from this, can function work wise and I'm in a very stable relationship which tbh has strengthened during this past year.

I've got my coping mechanisms, and one of those in January was thinking it would be mid April for non essential retail and going beyond 5km

That appears to be gone

So apart from one necessary visit to the dentist, and visits by my plumber to fix my boiler, for five months, the only person I will interact with face to face will be my partner with whom I live, if 5km stays till May

Like I say no impact financially in fact I'm better off

But I miss human interaction desperately, my partner more so

I cannot imagine how awful this is for the half a million unemployed

I'm not arguing that this isn't awful, what I am saying is that government cannot be specific about when the measures will be relaxed because, sadly, giving people this information will cause them to not adhere when either the date or the case target is approaching. There is a negative feedback loop here - the closer we get to the target makes it less likely people will behave, so it means it takes longer to achieve the target, if it can be achieved at all.

It isn't fair to say the government isn't communicating effectively about reopening when the questions simply cannot be answered, because they don't know. No one knows.

marno21

marno21 wrote: »

I disagree with this narrative. TH told Government it was a choice between hospitality and household visits before Xmas. Government went off and let hospitality be a seed for a massive Christmas outbreak.

If TH was ordering stuff we wouldn't be in this mess, schools & construction would not have been closed and we would probably be able to survive on Level 3/4 at this stage.

I suspect if Holohan had his way, we'd have been in the Level 5 lockdown from March last year until today, and quite likely into March next year.

And, do you know what, I don't blame the man at all.

If I was in charge of the Road Safety Authority, and I was put in charge of minimising road deaths, do you know what my number one order would be?

Ban all cars,

My number two order would be to ban all pedestrians.

Holohan is taking the most extreme position possible (who could forget him sneaking back from leave a day early to order a Level 5 lockdown two weeks after hospitality opened?), and that's absolutely justified given his terms of reference and his agenda.

The idea that Tony Holohan wants anything other than Level 5 is fantasy, though.

I believe I am right in saying that at no point in the last year has Holohan recommended (as opposed to acquiescing to) lifting a single restriction.

Stheno

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I'm not arguing that this isn't awful, what I am saying is that government cannot be specific about when the measures will be relaxed because, sadly, giving people this information will cause them to not adhere when either the date or the case target is approaching. There is a negative feedback loop here - the closer we get to the target makes it less likely people will behave, so it means it takes longer to achieve the target, if it can be achieved at all.

It isn't fair to say the government isn't communicating effectively about reopening when the questions simply cannot be answered, because they don't know. No one knows.

Sorry but it is fair to say that the government are cowards here leaking details from pp meetings

And I'd be an ff or fg voter, I would literally emigrate if Sinn Fein were running the country

Happydays2020

b0nk1e wrote: »

I suspect if Holohan had his way, we'd have been in the Level 5 lockdown from March last year until today, and quite likely into March next year.

And, do you know what, I don't blame the man at all.

If I was in charge of the Road Safety Authority, and I was put in charge of minimising road deaths, do you know what my number one order would be?

Ban all cars,

My number two order would be to ban all pedestrians.

Holohan is taking the most extreme position possible (who could forget him sneaking back from leave a day early to order a Level 5 lockdown two weeks after hospitality opened?), and that's absolutely justified given his terms of reference and his agenda.

The idea that Tony Holohan wants anything other than Level 5 is fantasy, though.

I believe I am right in saying that at no point in the last year has Holohan recommended (as opposed to acquiescing to) lifting a single restriction.

You forgot about banning bicycles.

KrustyUCC

b0nk1e wrote: »

I suspect if Holohan had his way, we'd have been in the Level 5 lockdown from March last year until today, and quite likely into March next year.

And, do you know what, I don't blame the man at all.

If I was in charge of the Road Safety Authority, and I was put in charge of minimising road deaths, do you know what my number one order would be?

Ban all cars,

My number two order would be to ban all pedestrians.

Holohan is taking the most extreme position possible (who could forget him sneaking back from leave a day early to order a Level 5 lockdown two weeks after hospitality opened?), and that's absolutely justified given his terms of reference and his agenda.

The idea that Tony Holohan wants anything other than Level 5 is fantasy, though.

I believe I am right in saying that at no point in the last year has Holohan recommended (as opposed to acquiescing to) lifting a single restriction.

Seems Tony & NPHET are running things alright

The government won't stand up to them again

"The Fine Gael leader also told his parliamentary party meeting on Wednesday that the construction sector is unlikely to reopen next month if Covid case numbers are still at 400 per day.

He said while no decision has been made, Nphet had concerns about construction workers travelling to work and the potential for socialising on breaks. He said there was also a reluctance from public health officials to reopen schools and construction at the same time."

https://www.independent.ie/news/junior-and-senior-infants-may-return-to-school-on-march-1-taoiseach-40103938.html

Construction and Schools are meant to be priorities for the government

They're giving an open goal to SF is they push back construction past March no matter how concerned Tony & Co are

Loafing Oaf

KrustyUCC wrote: »

S
They're giving an open goal to SF is they push back construction past March no matter how concerned Tony & Co are

Sinn Fein have embraced 'maximum suppression' AKA zero covid give or take. They're not going to criticise the government for maintaing restrictions while case numbers are still in the hundreds.

KrustyUCC

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Sinn Fein have embraced 'maximum suppression' AKA zero covid give or take. They're not going to criticise the government for maintaing restrictions while case numbers are still in the hundreds.

No they will wait until housing supply goes down thanks to construction not being allowed back and say that housing wasn't a priority for the government

Also Sinn Fein are in power in the North where construction is open

DevilsHaircut

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Bizarre story here. Child tests negative for Covid but we are going to blame Covid for it anyway:

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/our-5-year-old-is-in-icu-with-covid-linked-illness-40103698.html

Seems far more likely that an infection from the cut he got is the cause of his illness.

Yet another example of dreadful journalism.

Your medical knowledge being superior to the medics who diagnosed him.

PIMS happens after a Covid infection and is a well documented after-effect.

Not included in your post:

'A nurse and a young doctor said they were not happy, that Tommy wasn’t responding to treatment...They took Tommy for a heart scan. Later they told us he had this Covid-19 related condition, we’d never heard of, PIMS.'

DevilsHaircut

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I don't agree. Journalist looking for a story could easily have put words in their mouths. Happens all the time
Journalist tells them about PIMS, asks them if they think it could be that etc. It's the way a lot of journalists work these days, unfortunately.

How did the journalist find them, if that's the case?

Did they wait outside Crumlin Hospital for months trying that line with any parents who came out?

DevilsHaircut

Stheno wrote: »

I have one expectation from this government when it comes to this pandemic and that is to communicate effectively and clearly...

How about telling the truth?

Which is in many respects 'we don't know'.

Turtwig

DevilsHaircut wrote: »

How about telling the truth?

Which is in many respects 'we don't know'.

No problem with that. Huge problem with their entertainment of providing detail on possible future scenarios given an obscene range of hypotheticals.

KrustyUCC

KrustyUCC wrote: »

They're giving an open goal to SF is they push back construction past March no matter how concerned Tony & Co are

I dunno, SF seem pretty cool with restrictions. What I'm really very concerned about is that there is going to be a far-Right group emerging which manages to capture the people who are concerned about restrictions.

It hasn't happened to date, but the longer the restrictions carry on, it's easy to see a Renua - or worse - weaponising opposition to same. We're lucky there's no election due.

gozunda

Could we have a bit of basic cop on about the current situation?

Just over a month ago Ireland had one of the world’s highest covid-19 infection rates largely
due to increased 'social mixing and reduction of physical distancing over Christmas'

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/01/15/ireland-has-one-of-the-worlds-highest-covid-19-infection-rates

We've just got that down - and we have some screaming that they are fed up with the whole thing again . Wtf? We are all fed up.

But no - it shouldn't be about needing to be told exactly when next we can all do the conga - but more importantly it's still about keeping the rate of infection down and stopping our health services being overrun. God forbid that we end up with another Christmas rerun with rising cases with an even more infectious varient in the staring role

Spanish Eyes

Que sera, sera, hopefully in a good way.

Better to be cautious now rather than be populist and lead us all down the next lockdown path.

If the JJ vaccine works, we will be free soon enough. A bit of pain for a big gain is worth it. Even the Shinners agree lol. Says it all. Rebels me article.

Gael23

b0nk1e wrote: »

I dunno, SF seem pretty cool with restrictions. What I'm really very concerned about is that there is going to be a far-Right group emerging which manages to capture the people who are concerned about restrictions.

It hasn't happened to date, but the longer the restrictions carry on, it's easy to see a Renua - or worse - weaponising opposition to same. We're lucky there's no election due.

I think because Mary Lou got it her tone has softened

fits

gozunda wrote: »

Could we have a bit of basic cop on about the current situation?

Just over a month ago Ireland had one of the world’s highest covid-19 infection rates largely
due to increased 'social mixing and reduction of physical distancing over Christmas'

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/01/15/ireland-has-one-of-the-worlds-highest-covid-19-infection-rates

We've just got that down - and we have some screaming that they are fed up with the whole thing again . Wtf? We are all fed up.

But no - it shouldn't be about needing to be told exactly when next we can all do the conga - but more importantly it's still about keeping the rate of infection down and stopping our health services being overrun. God forbid that we end up with another Christmas rerun with rising cases with an even more infectious varient in the staring role

I think we will look back on this in five years and wonder what the hell we lived through. 4000 dead and counting.

It’s worth being careful now to ensure a spike doesn’t happen again. The health services can’t take it. But we do need to get schools open above all else.

A family member of mine got vaccinated yesterday. He’d be in vulnerable group but works in HSE and out and about a lot to nursing homes etc so I’m absolutely delighted and relieved he’s got it.

Sanjuro

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What exactly do you want government to do? Tell people that they'll start easing restrictions in X weeks? They do that people will stay behaviour like the restrictions don't exist in X-2weeks before the target is achieved.

Tell people that restrictions will be listed when daily cases are Y, people will start to ignore restrictions at Y +200, let alone be stable under Y for a week.

There is simply no way of giving a timeline for removing the restrictions without undermining them. This is a sad reality of our society.

We'd be out of this mess if people actually followed the restrictions and government guidelines properly. What are we expecting Martin to do, be there at your door to tell you that the "area shur the evening cans with the lads/drinkies with the girls is grand" is not on?

On the one hand we expect government to protect everyone's welfare yet seemingly object when it takes the necessary measures to ensure this.

The problem as I see it with how the government are handling these lockdowns is it is almost entirely one-sided. Whether you agree with it or not, the lockdown feels like a punishment. When we were first locked down, we were told it was to avoid overwhelming the healthcare system. Everyone bought in, and that was avoided. But while that was happening, the government did little to ensure that that threat was minimised in the future.

Add to that the situation with the schools. The Leaving Cert was cancelled. A plan was thrown together and it was barely dealt with. There was always a threat another lockdown was going to happen again and unbelievably, the government put no plan, no contingency together. And here we are again.

The government are putting the entire responsibility onto the public and doing nothing to shoulder a portion of the responsibility. There is no solidarity. No sign of a plan. No leadership and no encouragement. It's just scolding and being talked down to with no end in sight. I can't blame people for not following the seemingly arbitrary rules. Especially the 5km limit. There's no explanation for why this is in place. Just being told "do it. And shut up."

The government's handling of this is extraordinarily poor. Its a complete abdication of leadership and I'm astonished at how badly their messaging and leadership has been handled.

fits

One country we haven’t looked towards so much is Finland. Looks like they have managed the pandemic better than any European country with lower restrictions than here. I know people will bring up population density but the vast majority of the population live in the south or in small cities.
They have fewer than 30 in ICU in the country at present. https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/finlands_icus_less_busy_as_covid_hits_younger_population_expert_says/11791270

Anyway their prime minister Sanna Marin is on the cover of Time.

https://twitter.com/time/status/1362018118210490372?s=21

Happydays2020

This is interesting in showing where we are relative to others. As was discussed here back in April/May Ireland had ramped up testing ahead of many other EU countries.

https://twitter.com/vollcornhirsch/status/1362041993556328450?s=21

We are no longer up the league table and that is because we have had lockdowns and for the most part the population has complied with the rules. This is a narrative that both extremes are uncomfortable with. We had a brief period where our cases were higher than elsewhere but we managed this very well.