Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

Arghus

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

Just wondering.....everyone saying we just need to stick it out for a few more months or whatever.

What would be your deadline to say enough is enough. I can never get a date from people. Like if this goes on until 2023 or 2025. Will you still be saying....if we just obey things will go back to normal.

What would the time be for you to say, ok I feel for the elderly but this is too much.....People will never give a date because, I guess they are deep down afraid to admit that this will likely go on for years

To answer your question honestly

I don't know when enough is enough.

I'm sticking with it at the moment because I hope that we can bring the numbers down to a low enough level and that the vaccination programme and the Summer months will help to get enough people vaccinated so that by the time next Autumn and Winter comes along we can avoid draconian restrictions and get back to something pretty close to normality.

I don't see the point of projecting forward into what might occur in 2022 or 2023, because I don't have a crystal ball and what happens in the medium term re vaccination is more relevant to now.

I can't say how I would feel if we were still here in 12 months time in exactly the same position. A lot of things that I hope and expect to occur will have to have not occurred or to have not worked in the meantime.

runawaybishop

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Watching Question Time on BBC, one of the contributors has said that in the UK once those over 50 and those with underlying conditions between 16 and 50 have been vaccinated that's 99% of the deaths which occurred with Covid vaccinated, we must be in an almost identical position to this.

The big question is when would we hit this target and what excuse can possibly be given to not completely re-open the country at that stage?

That's 2 million people here, once the vaccine producers get their act together we should be doing 1 million a month. There are supposed to massively ramp up in Q2 so logically by Q3 at the latest we should have protected 99% of the groups at risk. We should definitely see a big change from may onwards, can't see restrictions not dropping steeply in summer, with some easing before that.

I regurgitate the news

Arghus wrote: »

To answer your question honestly

I don't know when enough is enough.

I'm sticking with it at the moment because I hope that we can bring the numbers down to a low enough level and that the vaccination programme and the Summer months will help to get enough people vaccinated so that by the time next Autumn and Winter comes along we can avoid draconian restrictions and get back to something pretty close to normality.

I don't see the point of projecting forward into what might occur in 2022 or 2023, because I don't have a crystal ball and what happens in the medium term re vaccination is more relevant to now.

I can't say how I would feel if we were still here in 12 months time in exactly the same position. A lot of things that I hope and expect to occur will have to have not occurred or to have not worked in the meantime.

Surely you can say if this is still going on in 2025 that that would be too much. People losing their houses and businesses most definitely will have end dates.

What eventually will happen is that you will force people to break the law doing what used to be called their job in order to survive.

I think it would appease many disgruntled people if an end date could be provided but alas......you have not provided one.

I don't mean to be rude. As I have said, I have encountered this a lot and people in the real world usually run away from the discussion when I ask them this if they are pro lockdown

Arghus

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

Surely you can say if this is still going on in 2025 that that would be too much. People losing their houses and businesses most definitely will have end dates.

What eventually will happen is that you will force people to break the law doing what used to be called their job in order to survive.

I think it would appease many disgruntled people if an end date could be provided but alas......you have not provided one.

I don't mean to be rude. As I have said, I have encountered this a lot and people in the real world usually run away from the discussion when I ask them this if they are pro lockdown

I can't provide an end date for the pandemic. I hope that the worst will be over before we get into the Autumn.

Wolf359f

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Id like to get people's answer on this as well. From the scientist to the leading heath care professionals. At which point do you believe we've achieved enough?

From the very start there has been two reasons continually given for the justification of harsh restrictions with mid to low case numbers. Protect the health service from being overloaded in case if a surge. And protect the most vunerable.

The health service coped with 6k countrywide cases a day. Obviously it was a complete scramble but it did survive. It has proven it can handle numbers such as last Autumn (500-1k per day) comfortably. If that's proven its ability, and the over 65s and most vunerable are all vaccinated by say June, then what justification do people have for any further restrictions whatsoever?

It was a peak of 6k, not 6k sustained. That's not realistic to assume they can repeat that again.
In Autumn, I may be wrong, but some hospitals had to cancel elective surgery, so again it's unsustainable.

Obviously the difference now is the vaccination program and its impact it will have on reducing deaths and admissions and controlling spread. I think we need real data on this and I would hope that's what's being collected in the background now. This should play a key path in easing restrictions.

It would be nice to get some clarity from the government and no ****ing leaks. I'm sick of the leaks at this stage.
If they just said, were focusing on schools for March and examining the data from the vaccination effects, which will give us a better idea of how to safely and effectively reopen after we deal with schools, it may give people some hope.

manofwisdom

Hospital operations update

In hospital 752 (13 fewer than last night)

In ICU 148 (3 fewer than last night but sadly 2 deaths)

This is unreal, to throw out an arbitrary 9 weeks as if they are tokens of time that we have to earn is really the stuff or Orwellian fiction. I do realize that in order to live and exist in a society you do give up some individual freedoms for the greater good but there does come in time a john locke type social contract.. people have natural rights and the sooner the better we stop ****ing around on social media and start exercising them the way the ancestors of 1916 did the bloody better.

stop wingin to boards and get down to your TD and lambast em with vigor.. mak'em work for his/her big pension. Do it with style so as not to be labelled a tin hat O'Phile! seriously, if you think moaning to a chat room full of pro's and cons will change anything, you're being laughed at and sneered over. At least the Dutch are having a go...happy enough to be led by a "socially awkward" media whore and his mean girls who are surely gagging for the next Kylie concert then I suppose.

Loafing Oaf

Coybig_ wrote: »

Restrictions will only end through non-compliance at this point.

How will non-compliance 'end' restrictions? People can visit each others houses I suppose but pubs, restaurants, cinemas etc. will stay closed as long as the government says so.

mcburns07

Wolf359f wrote: »

It was a peak of 6k, not 6k sustained. That's not realistic to assume they can repeat that again.
In Autumn, I may be wrong, but some hospitals had to cancel elective surgery, so again it's unsustainable.

Obviously the difference now is the vaccination program and its impact it will have on reducing deaths and admissions and controlling spread. I think we need real data on this and I would hope that's what's being collected in the background now. This should play a key path in easing restrictions.

It would be nice to get some clarity from the government and no ****ing leaks. I'm sick of the leaks at this stage.
If they just said, were focusing on schools for March and examining the data from the vaccination effects, which will give us a better idea of how to safely and effectively reopen after we deal with schools, it may give people some hope.

Communication from the government has been appalling for months now. We went from Lord of the Rings quotes to Thursday night Daily Mirror leaks over the last 11 months !

PS the Living With Covid Plan is 2020’s electronic voting machines or PPARS.

spookwoman

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

As I said generally people cannot provide a date when they will say this is enough.

From your response you have confirmed this

I gave you a reason why people won't give a date and why.

No one know's because we cannot see into the future, we can only speculate or make assumptions based on current data. Most people are not going to put a date on something they don't know and maybe that's because they don't have such a narrow minded view of the pandemic, that there are knock on effects.

There is no use making plans or putting dates to things which are out of our control especially when we have muppets who can't follow the restrictions as it is.
Frustrations at the restrictions automatically doesn't mean people are going to just stop following them because they are having a hissy fit at not having an end date.

TheDoctor

So what exactly is expected from this new Hiding from Covid plan they are releasing next week?

Turtwig

I think it's best to just wait until March, see how we're faring before rolling out some kind of plan.

We are currently executing a protracted lockdown. It's sh1t but it's the situation we find ourselves in. One mistep and we risk digging an even deeper hole. A plan would be nice but given the volatility of our situation I can understand why nothing concrete is being said. How I wish then they wouldn't say anything at all.

RTE last night, 93% of deaths from Covid, were over 65 with underlying conditions, about 45% were over 85 years old. Vaccinate them and get the fook on with life. media are quoting now that covid deaths are between 40 and 105 yrs old... yes that 40year old is exceptionally rare...FFS. open the economy to those other than trust fund babies, high paid civil servants and the independently wealthy David Norris's of this world! A nun 115 yrs old sailed through covid-19 this week, a deadly virus...indiscrimate...kills on site..destroys economys..leaves silence in its wake... 115 yrs old not a bother...

Long covid me hole...more like NOCEBO effect...tell enough people they'll feel sick and indeed they will...Cogito Ergo sum..

E mac

TheDoctor wrote: »

So what exactly is expected from this new Hiding from Covid plan they are releasing next week?

Thought they changed the plans name to Suffering under Covid...

I regurgitate the news

Arghus wrote: »

I can't provide an end date for the pandemic. I hope that the worst will be over before we get into the Autumn.

If you were affected financially by this to the extent that it was affecting your ability to pay your bills I think you would have a different answer.

Ficheall

rusty cole wrote: »

.. people have natural rights and the sooner the better we stop ****ing around on social media and start exercising them the way the ancestors of 1916 did the bloody better.

stop wingin to boards and get down to your TD and lambast em with vigor.. mak'em work for his/her big pension..

Your 1916 tribute act is to go and whinge at your TD?

Atlantic Dawn

TheDoctor wrote: »

So what exactly is expected from this new Hiding from Covid plan they are releasing next week?

Likely they will tell us some new yarn that they have discovered Cahersiveen and Drogheda strains of the virus which are 6.78435% stronger than the South African version and we will have to stay in during daylight for 8 more weeks.

Wolf359f

rusty cole wrote: »

RTE last night, 93% of deaths from Covid, were over 65 with underlying conditions, about 45% were over 85 years old. Vaccinate them and get the fook on with life. media are quoting now that covid deaths are between 40 and 105 yrs old... yes that 40year old is exceptionally rare...FFS. open the economy to those other than trust fund babies, high paid civil servants and the independently wealthy David Norris's of this world!

Half the hospitalisation and ICU admissions are under 65 years old. So the let it rip mentality would soon see hospitals overrun and elective surgery stopped again.
You can't use one metric alone to decide when to just open everything up.

Atlantic Dawn

Wolf359f wrote: »

Half the hospitalisation and ICU admissions are under 65 years old. So the let it rip mentality would soon see hospitals overrun and elective surgery stopped again.
You can't use one metric alone to decide when to just open everything up.

With no underlying conditions?

runawaybishop

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

With no underlying conditions?

You think that's somehow relevant? Oh they had health issues already, **** em.

Wolf359f

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

With no underlying conditions?

Poster just mentioned deaths over 65. Their only focus was on deaths of over 65 and to vaccinate them and then open up. I was pointing out half the admissions to hospital and ICU are aged under 65.
I'm sure underlying conditions play a large part in the rate under 65, but you need to vaccinate that cohort also before even considering a let it rip approach.

Arghus

I

I regurgitate the news wrote: »

If you were affected financially by this to the extent that it was affecting your ability to pay your bills I think you would have a different answer.

I do struggle to pay my bills, my hours have been cut, my employment opportunities have been put on hold. I'd actually be financially better off on the PUP.

it they were that bad, ICU's would be in the 1000's. If you tell them it's that bad, they will present and demand a test and require treatment. It's called panic.
If they were all turning up gasping hand on chest, we'd be in big big trouble.
You know more people die of heart attacks in winter than in summer??? you know in America 10% of people are senior citizens? and yet they take up 50% of the beds??? in hospitals?? so introduce a pneumonia into that setting and see how you get on!!! they all have multiple issue that can contribute to death at that age and certainly one that can tip them over.

I'm not being an arsehole I'm just saying....9 ****ing weeks!!!

Ficheall

robbiezero wrote: »

Government and NPHET are like a blind man making his way through a bog.
Just fumbling and feeling their way through and falling in a hole at every step.

If you're fumbling and feeling your way along, are you not likely to miss the bogholes, even if the going is slow? Surely the people who decide to hell with it and decide to just run for it are more likely to fall in the holes?

Atlantic Dawn

runawaybishop wrote: »

You think that's somehow relevant? Oh they had health issues already, **** em.

The complete opposite, they need to be shielded and at the top of any vaccination list which is exactly what I said in my earlier post around over 50's and those 16-50 with underlying conditions needing vaccination before opening up.

Atlantic Dawn

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The complete opposite, they need to be shielded and at the top of any vaccination list which is exactly what I said in my earlier post around over 50's and those 16-50 with underlying conditions needing vaccination before opening up.

not even shielded, Luke O'Neill said all vaccines promote 100% efficacy for sickness and hospitalization.. ERGO, flatten the curve in the most vulnerable groups and all the rest self isolate to reduce but not illiminate the spread... is that not what we need?? no more hospitalizations?? or is it all now, ZERO COVID!!!

wakka12

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_3.html

Interesting stat, 1.34% of the American population over 65 have been hospitalised with COVID since March. Put's it into perspective really and seems like a number that would hit quite close to home, probably a majority of Americans would have an elderly relative who has been in hospital with COVID this year. Probably will exceed 2% by the end of the pandemic.

In UK, 2.2% of the 65-85 age group have been hospitalised with COVID since March.
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare?areaType=nhsregion&areaName=North%20West

Coybig_

Wolf359f wrote: »

Half the hospitalisation and ICU admissions are under 65 years old. So the let it rip mentality would soon see hospitals overrun and elective surgery stopped again.
You can't use one metric alone to decide when to just open everything up.

2019: https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/irish-hospitals-breaking-point-after-21172185


2018: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/nurses-say-2018-worst-year-ever-for-overcrowding-in-public-hospitals-1.3745522


2017: https://www.newstalk.com/news/irish-hospitals-continue-to-face-record-overcrowding-526759


2016: https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hospitals-overwhelmed-by-overcrowding-admits-varadkar-1.2505516
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2016/1109/830371-university-hospital-galway/


Find a different hymn sheet to sing from. We've heard the lyrics to that one for years.

Turtwig

No medication or treatment is 100%. Vaccine or otherwise. That's just bullsh1t. Did O'Neill really say that?

That's such an irresponsible statement if he did.

wakka12

wakka12 wrote: »

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/covidnet/COVID19_3.html

Interesting stat, 1.34% of the American population over 65 have been hospitalised with COVID since March. Put's it into perspective really and seems like a number that would hit quite close to home, probably a majority of Americans would have an elderly relative who has been in hospital with COVID this year. Probably will exceed 2% by the end of the pandemic.

LIie I said, over 65's make up 50% of the beds in hospitals at any one tim , they most likely caught it in there yes??? like here?