Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

Wolf359f

tails_naf wrote: »

We already don't comply to some eu rules, like when people generating electricity and sending it back to the grid they are not paid for it, and the EU fining us for it is the only reason we may bring that in, so given we flout rules as is we could bring mandatory quarantine in and argue it with the EU later or pay the fine. I'd like mandatory quarantine as I'd gladly take it if it meant I could legally visit family in the US, I'd quarantine for 14 days both sides of travel no problem.

What you say is correct, EU laws need to be enacted by member states over a certain period and fines then get enforced. But if mandatory quarantine is in the realm of the ECHR, that's a different ballgame. It's so easy calling for mandatory quarantine, but if it breaches our rights as EU citizens, that's different.
We can't have countries/neighbors breaching human rights as they see fit, it's a slippery slope.

That's all predicated on mandatory quarantining effecting your rights, I don't know.

tails_naf

Wolf359f wrote: »

What you say is correct, EU laws need to be enacted by member states over a certain period and fines then get enforced. But if mandatory quarantine is in the realm of the ECHR, that's a different ballgame. It's so easy calling for mandatory quarantine, but if it breaches our rights as EU citizens, that's different.
We can't have countries/neighbors breaching human rights as they see fit, it's a slippery slope.

That's all predicated on mandatory quarantining effecting your rights, I don't know.

Thanks for the informed answer. In this case it would seem that taking the EU to task publically about this would be a good thing to do. We're defending our population, who have rogjts.too. For everyone coming in, offer a free flight back to where they flew from, or quarantine. The person has the choice and has the knowledge before travelling, its hard to see how that breaches a human right, its not forced on anyone.

Wolf359f

tails_naf wrote: »

Thanks for the informed answer. In this case it would seem that taking the EU to task publically about this would be a good thing to do. We're defending our population, who have rogjts.too. For everyone coming in, offer a free flight back to where they flew from, or quarantine. The person has the choice and has the knowledge before travelling, its hard to see how that breaches a human right, its not forced on anyone.

It breaches my human right if I fly in from Brazil and I'm refused entry to my own country. Yes I refuse a test and I refuse quarantine. Doesn't give the Irish government a right to refuse me entry.

I know that's a crazy extreme situation, but I'd assume when governments make up laws, they take all those crazy outliers into consideration. A law has to differ from black and white, it cannot be go into the grey area.

tails_naf

Wolf359f wrote: »

It breaches my human right if I fly in from Brazil and I'm refused entry to my own country. Yes I refuse a test and I refuse quarantine. Doesn't give the Irish government a right to refuse me entry.

I know that's a crazy extreme situation, but I'd assume when governments make up laws, they take all those crazy outliers into consideration. A law has to differ from black and white, it cannot be go into the grey area.

But you are not refused entry, your are delayed only, or can go back. If a person expects no delay then passport or security checks are also breching human rights currently. So we add a health check in an extreme circumstance. Do you legit think NZ is breaching human rights?

Wolf359f

tails_naf wrote: »

But you are not refused entry, your are delayed only, or can go back. If a person expects no delay then passport or security checks are also breching human rights currently. So we add a health check in an extreme circumstance. Do you legit think NZ is breaching human rights?

Passport and security check delays are usually based on the people ahead. If there's people before you and less staff you will be delayed, but so will everyone.
You cannot equate a 2 week mandatory quarantine with a 2min delay ordering McDonald's through a drive thru.

Maybe we can delay entry to all know criminals travelling back to Ireland, they represent a danger to the public, so may we have dedicated place to house them, lets call it a prison, lets say make it 10 years and then they can be released.

If a 2 week mandatory quarantine is legal, would a 2 month or 2 year be also legal? who decides?

Yes it's crazyness, but as I said it's a slippery slope.

Is NZ breaching Human rights, I don't believe so, or I haven't heard about it.
They seem keen to take one for the team and move on after 2 weeks. I doubt Irish citizens returning home from Brazil would be as relaxed. Even the UK have people comparing quarantine to prison after only 4 hours!

But also remember Australia breached their citizen rights when they kept a tower block locked down for a period of time.

WhiteMemento9

I've been largely supportive of the Government based on the fact that the advice they take comes from groups of people who are much better qualified as a whole to make decisions so I generally can blindly get onboard.

I have posted before though our policy with regards to people coming into the country is utterly ****ing baffling. I get that we are landlocked with the North which has made things difficult but the fact we haven't used the competitive advantage we have of being a small island during this whole crisis is something I can't make any sense of and it has been a huge mistake. I see people using this as a basis for losing faith in the whole process and I have no arguments to refute those who feel that way.

Atlantic Dawn

Did we get a breakdown of the details on the 3 Brazilian cases whether it was 3 people isolated from everyone else who eventually got it or were they out in the community not respecting the quarantine regulations, if this was the case they should be turfed out of the country on their hole in the morning, if they were Irish they should be landed on Rockall.

Scuid Mhór

We should have banned air travel this time last year if not earlier. How people think it is okay to have it continuing is nonsensical.

WhiteMemento9

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

We should have banned air travel this time last year if not earlier. How people think it is okay to have it continuing is nonsensical.

I don't think we should have banned it but it could have been heavily controlled in favour of the people who I think are mainly the reason it has stayed open.

I get the feeling that there is a wider picture that no one really wants to address the public with. What does Ireland look like without air travel? We have no tourism. Alright, not a problem we have none anyway. So why not shut it down?

We know that the tax paid has stayed very high despite the hit for many sectors. That is mainly down to big multinationals in Ireland. I am pretty sure there has been lobby groups from corporate entities which have played a big part in Government decisions on this issue.

votecounts

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

We should have banned air travel this time last year if not earlier. How people think it is okay to have it continuing is nonsensical.

Pointless unless we had an All Island Approach as people would simply fly in to Belfast as we seen at christmas and then driving down to cork, etc to avoid quarantine, prcr tests,etc

patnor1011

What is the most sad is that people still believe that "this is only till vaccine come" or "till vaccine kicks in" all the while we have no idea and for a very long time we will not know if the vaccine available will be working.
Trials are still not finished up and every vaccine which is being administered now is approved as "under emergency conditions" meaning there is no long term studyof effectiveness or possible delayed response or side effects.
Throw in virus mutations and nobody really do have any idea what will happen.
But stay put. It is only till...... Whatever poor excuse comes next.

prunudo

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Said this the other day.

Have been working in a lot of different companies the last few weeks and mask wearing and social distancing is out the window.

Seems people WFH etc don't realise how a lot of places other than retail that they don't see, are really not bothered anymore.

Ronan Glynn saying a lot of cases are workplace related this week makes sense to me now.

Then I'm thinking is it a case of people who have had covid already think they are OK and don't need to stick to the guidelines anymore????

Have been saying/seeing similar myself for a while. There is a lot of activity going on out and about that i think the majority wfh are not aware of. Doesn't necessarily mean they are all flouting the rules but it would certainly be an eye opener if you've been locked up in your house working while only leaving to go to do the grocery shop or a short walk.
M50 is busy again, not congested but things are happening and there is movement going on. Talking to people they've had enough and are seeing family and friends again. Seems that they are still being cautious though, ie continuing mask wearing, hand washing, social distancing, meetung outside etc so its not all bad news.

CruelSummer

Another leak to the Independent this morning instead of speaking to the population directly. No lifting of the 5km limit for the next 9 weeks. Absolutely shocking treatment of the population to keep them confined like this for months on end.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-meeting-outdoors-or-travel-further-than-5km-until-may-under-new-plan-40111982.html

DaSilva

Looks like people have been convinced by the media that the Brazilian and South African variants actually defeat the vaccine, nice job media, sure you earned a ton of advertising cash for that panic campaign. So now the public has a scapegoat that is external, very convenient. Meanwhile we ignore the obvious increase in activity all around the country despite the 'restrictions'.

I want people to consider why it is that we know about the UK, Brazilian and South African variants, anyone reckon it has something to do with the UK being the country with the most scientists doing genomic surveillance? And what about Brazil and South Africa, could it be that since they are the location for many vaccine trials that they also have increased surveillance? Vaccine trials in which still nobody who got a vaccine has been hospitalised or died despite the "strains".

Why is there no Indian, USA, French, German, Nigerian or Russian strains I wonder. These countries have huge populations and also massive amounts of infection. What is it they don't have that the other 3 have. I wonder could it be genomic surveillance? Could it be that there are other 'strains' that we simply aren't looking for?

Folks by the way, incase you aren't aware, there is evidence the vaccines still work against all known variants.

ginoginelli

votecounts wrote: »

Pointless unless we had an All Island Approach as people would simply fly in to Belfast as we seen at christmas and then driving down to cork, etc to avoid quarantine, prcr tests,etc

Even if we got no corporation from the north, heavy fines, and a serious threat of detention (matt Hancock style) for people trying to use belfast as a backdoor, would make a significant impact.

Instead, we do nothing, we dont even try.

I'm lost for words at the negligence of our government at this stage. They were warned multiple times about stopping new variants. The public, the opposition, and nphet have all pleaded with them to protect us. All we got back was lip service.

I'm beyond let down at this stage. Those clowns in charge have turned into criminals in my eyes.

Bobeagleburger

The vaccines work against all strains to date. No need for unfounded hysteria.

Dubit11

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

We should have banned air travel this time last year if not earlier. How people think it is okay to have it continuing is nonsensical.

They don't think it's okay, they are just selfish.

igCorcaigh

patnor1011 wrote: »

What is the most sad is that people still believe that "this is only till vaccine come" or "till vaccine kicks in" all the while we have no idea and for a very long time we will not know if the vaccine available will be working.
Trials are still not finished up and every vaccine which is being administered now is approved as "under emergency conditions" meaning there is no long term studyof effectiveness or possible delayed response or side effects.
Throw in virus mutations and nobody really do have any idea what will happen.
But stay put. It is only till...... Whatever poor excuse comes next.

Maybe hospital figures will be the key metric that will allow us to open up.

If there are continuing cases, but low hospitalisation numbers, then the vaccines will have worked to protect the health system, and so we ease restrictions.

Cork2021

CruelSummer wrote: »

Another leak to the Independent this morning instead of speaking to the population directly. No lifting of the 5km limit for the next 9 weeks. Absolutely shocking treatment of the population to keep them confined like this for months on end.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-meeting-outdoors-or-travel-further-than-5km-until-may-under-new-plan-40111982.html

I’ve given up on this government, it’s leak after leak, gaff after gaff! The constant use of the variant as NPHETs yard stick to beat us all with even with evidence already that the vaccines reduce transmission, severe illness, hospitalisations and deaths but we don’t see any other news from any other country so we need to adhere to all
Of this until we are all queuing at the virtual dole queue!

Doctor Jimbob

votecounts wrote: »

Pointless unless we had an All Island Approach as people would simply fly in to Belfast as we seen at christmas and then driving down to cork, etc to avoid quarantine, prcr tests,etc

By that logic we might as well do away with all restrictions because some people might not listen to them.

I'm fecking fed up of being told I can't go more than 5km from my home while people fly into the country bringing new variants that will inevitably be used as a reason to keep up that 5km restriction.

Dubit11

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

By that logic we might as well do away with all restrictions because some people might not listen to them.

I'm fecking fed up of being told I can't go more than 5km from my home while people fly into the country bringing new variants that will inevitably be used as a reason to keep up that 5km restriction.

It's been a bugbear of mine since last February tbh. The half arsed measures taken by our government in regards letting people fly willy nilly all around the world in the middle of a global pandemic is folly of epic proportions.

stephenjmcd

prunudo wrote: »

Have been saying/seeing similar myself for a while. There is a lot of activity going on out and about that i think the majority wfh are not aware of. Doesn't necessarily mean they are all flouting the rules but it would certainly be an eye opener if you've been locked up in your house working while only leaving to go to do the grocery shop or a short walk.
M50 is busy again, not congested but things are happening and there is movement going on. Talking to people they've had enough and are seeing family and friends again. Seems that they are still being cautious though, ie continuing mask wearing, hand washing, social distancing, meetung outside etc so its not all bad news.

Put well today by a Dublin GP in an article by Fergal Bowers

Dublin GP Dr Conor McGrane: "The restrictions are being broken by people who have passed the breaking point. No matter what they want, NPHET will have to accept they will not last in the present form for much longer, officially or unofficially."

It's STUPID.

The virus is no more lethal to Irish people than to other European people, yet Ireland is behaving as if it were.

Lockdown, whether it's Lv. 5 or Lv. 5-light (what they call Lv. 4) until May is a total and utter disgrace - almost HALF A YEAR OF LOCKDOWN.

Meanwhile, European nations are slowly but surely coming out of lockdown -- and even still, Ireland decides to double down again!

What is wrong with these people!!!

stephenjmcd

CruelSummer wrote: »

Another leak to the Independent this morning instead of speaking to the population directly. No lifting of the 5km limit for the next 9 weeks. Absolutely shocking treatment of the population to keep them confined like this for months on end.

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/no-meeting-outdoors-or-travel-further-than-5km-until-may-under-new-plan-40111982.html

Different papers different sources,
While the Irish times reports the below while saying no dates and its expected to be a few weeks yet, no mention of 9 weeks or May. Don't put too much credibility into alot of the government sources stuff when they say different things to different papers.

"but once schools are reopened, next steps include reopening construction, varying the 5k limit, opening non-essential retail, and outdoor dining,"

Jim_Hodge

b0nk1e wrote: »

I wouldn't like to waste your time. You could start with the people who liked your post. And if you're short one or two, you could add yourself.

I've absolutely no doubt, for instance, that the snip lad sets off a party popper for every death.

That's a no then. You honestly haven't a clue.

As for adding myself, besides that being an unnecessary insult it just proves how little you know and that you just make things up as you go along. Time you took a long look at what is actually posted as opposed to your flights of fancy.

Next time you make wild accusations make sure you have actual facts to back it up, because that last one was a huge fail.

JacksonHeightsOwn

votecounts wrote: »

Pointless unless we had an All Island Approach as people would simply fly in to Belfast as we seen at christmas and then driving down to cork, etc to avoid quarantine, prcr tests,etc

It may be pointless without the support of the northies.

But the main issue and main failure is that the politicians from both sides couldn't work out an agreement with each for the common good.

That's a failure on both varadker and Martins part, yes, also foster of course, but if our useless "leaders" couldn't get her on board, then quite frankly they've failed at their jobs.

wadacrack

Talking about breaking restrictions etc. Is just going to prolong the pain. We need to get numbers very low and roll out the vaccine . Mandatory quarantine at airports needs to happen

Kha1993

It’s good to see Fergal Bowers and the GP in his article talk about how people have had enough and NPHET need to realise a continued lockdown won’t work.

For weeks I’ve read here that people felt the same and they were kind of told they’re edge cases, the general population don’t feel the same, everyone is compliant, etc. But it’s good to read that that view is starting to prevail. Might be taken seriously now that it’s being talked about a bit more mainstream.

(Mightn’t be taken seriously as a new poster - I used to post here to Xmas then stepped back and closed account after a bereavement)

Cork2021

wadacrack wrote: »

Talking about breaking restrictions etc. Is just going to prolong the pain. We need to get numbers very low and roll out the vaccine . Mandatory quarantine at airports needs to happen

It’s not about breaking restrictions, it’s about fatigue! For the first time since Xmas day my parents saw my young lad, we couldn’t let it go any longer! My dad was put on the PUP payment last week and was feeling rotten, needed a pick me up, man loves working and was the same when we had the first lockdown. I can’t grasp how some people think just letting this go on and on will help things? We’ll have an epidemic of mental illness if there’s no hope given soon. All we hear and see is extension after extension.
I saw a few posts earlier saying there’s more movement, there certainly is and even the strictest of people are now starting to ‘break the rules’
The new living with covid plan has to have an endgame or they will certainly this time for sure lose the people completely

Happydays2020

Cork2021 wrote: »

It’s not about breaking restrictions, it’s about fatigue! For the first time since Xmas day my parents saw my young lad, we couldn’t let it go any longer! My dad was put on the PUP payment last week and was feeling rotten, needed a pick me up, man loves working and was the same when we had the first lockdown. I can’t grasp how some people think just letting this go on and on will help things? We’ll have an epidemic of mental illness if there’s no hope given soon. All we hear and see is extension after extension.
I saw a few posts earlier saying there’s more movement, there certainly is and even the strictest of people are now starting to ‘break the rules’
The new living with covid plan has to have an endgame or they will certainly this time for sure lose the people completely

I have definitely seen more movement over the last week or so. Simple things like more people on the supermarket, more cars on the roads and seeing people buying cases of beer which is probably a sign of house parties again.

My fear is that the ongoing nonsense of directing our ire at a small number of inward travel while talking about restrictions for the next 8/10 weeks will just lead to more people finding their own solutions to opening up. People need hope. The messaging is terrible - it is all stick.