Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

AdamD

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Nearing Christmas, and in the days following, retail was open while we had a huge outbreak.
To suggest that retail, or the public transport used to get to it, wasn't a source of infection at this time shows you still understand **** all.

If you were in shopping centers or whatever around this time, you were rubbing shoulders with large numbers of infected people. Indoors. Wtf do you think is going to happen?

Closing retail for 6 weeks before the biggest retail season of the year was utterly idiotic and pointed out by many beforehand. What did they expect to happen? People to not do Christmas shopping? Wishful thinking - maybe they should get somebody on their committees who actually has any understanding of society

Non-essential retail should never have closed, and should still be open.

jackboy

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Nearing Christmas, and in the days following, retail was open while we had a huge outbreak.
To suggest that retail, or the public transport used to get to it, wasn't a source of infection at this time shows you still understand **** all.

If you were in shopping centers or whatever around this time, you were rubbing shoulders with large numbers of infected people. Indoors. Wtf do you think is going to happen?

All wearing masks so the virus spread in these scenarios would have been minimal. The Christmas spike was not caused by shopping centres.

wadacrack

AdamD wrote: »

Closing retail for 6 weeks before the biggest retail season of the year was utterly idiotic and pointed out by many beforehand. What did they expect to happen? People to not do Christmas shopping? Wishful thinking - maybe they should get somebody on their committees who actually has any understanding of society

Non-essential retail should never have closed, and should still be open.

That's not sustainable with this new variant. We would have no option of hospital care within weeks. That's the reality. Theirs is a sense of denial in this thread at times.

harr

Definitely think they have lost the majority of the people this week and shot them self in the foot .
A lot of people I know including my own parents have up till now stuck to the rules but by telling people we could in this lockdown till July people have just had enough.
Every word out of the government the last week has been doom , even today the narrative of not getting the kids hopes up about a return to school in March is crazy.
So many small independent businesses local to me gone to the wall since Christmas.
They really need to start reading the mood of the country a bit better and start to offer some little bit of hope and some incentives to show people the end is in sight because if they don’t come end of March beginning of April people will just stop complying.
I know the mental health narrative is constantly being discussed but the amount of children this particular lockdown is affecting is scary.

AdamD

wadacrack wrote: »

That's not sustainable with this new variant. We would have no option of hospital care within weeks. That's the reality. Theirs is a sense of denial in this thread at times.

Hang on. You think then mere opening of a few shops would lead to the collapse of our health system?


I literally visit the supermarket every day, how have I not caught covid yet in this danger ravaged environment?

is_that_so

jackboy wrote: »

So restricting activities that have no impact on spread of the virus is ok? Your suggesting we legally can’t control house parties but we can fine someone for walking on a beach. Surely you can see the governments strategy is ineffective to say the least.

Restrictions aimed at keeping people apart are the only way in the absence of tools which allow us to test very quickly. Vaccinations will be the tool into the future. I don't disagree on the restrictions but you seem to think the virus will do the right thing if we can only pick the right targeted strategy.

iamwhoiam

AdamD wrote: »

Hang on. You think then mere opening of a few shops would lead to the collapse of our health system?


I literally visit the supermarket every day, how have I not caught covid yet in this danger ravaged environment?

At the very least click and collect should be opened immediately .
Shoe shops should be open and one in at a time
Clothes shops with street entry and limited entry open
Peolple need shoes and clothes now and children need their feet measured and new shoes . My daughter had to borrow shoes for her baby as Clarks delivery is incredibly slow .

screamer

Christmas-a lot of people just went back to their normal routines, large family dinners, visiting etc. The nail bars and hairdressers were packed, queues outside barbers. People weren’t getting all that done to sit home with their own household. Then of course giving presents, what a great way to spread Covid. People went nuts at Christmas, the government totally messed up with messaging and what they allowed people to do, and like I said back then, lockdown level 6 would follow, and being honest this lockdown is most harsh.

is_that_so

Turtwig wrote: »

This time last year there no were official cases linked to pubs, restaurants and retail. Ergo, covid doesn't spread in these places.

Retail is logically the least risky on account of the very limited contact with individuals, a year of shopping, with 6 months of it without masks is evidence enough of that.

wadacrack

AdamD wrote: »

Hang on. You think then mere opening of a few shops would lead to the collapse of our health system?


I literally visit the supermarket every day, how have I not caught covid yet in this danger ravaged environment?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/doctors-blame-virus-outbreaks-on-shoppers-complacency-40086220.html

The virus spread predominantly indoors. Shops are obviously a risk.
Naive to base opinion just on personal experience.

jackboy

is_that_so wrote: »

I don't disagree on the restrictions but you seem to think the virus will do the right thing if we can only pick the right targeted strategy.

Yes I do, focus on the restrictions that actually control the virus.

Tens of thousands of people are currently working in busy multi nationals where the virus spread is easily controlled with a few very minor actions. Limited numbers in meeting rooms, canteen tables well spaced out, wear a mask when walking around the site. These simple actions mean that even the new variants can’t get a foothold. Retail with even more stringent precautions should not have an issue.

is_that_so

wadacrack wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/doctors-blame-virus-outbreaks-on-shoppers-complacency-40086220.html

The virus spread predominantly indoors. Shops are obviously a risk.
Naive to base opinion just on personal experience.

Yeah that's a germaphobe GP. The data suggests she is giving her own personal opinion, for all the scientific evidence that has.

Happydays2020

It seems (report in the Sunday Times) that the advice from NPHET is that reopening is being linked to making progress on hospital waiting lists.

Happydays2020

Although a few weeks old now, this is a great slide deck

https://assets.gov.ie/123703/17c91fec-ec9f-46bc-a8f0-cb98303684d8.pdf

Gruffalux

I know people are pissed off and bored. I get it a bit sometimes and I miss some people a lot. But its worth mantaining rational perspective. Was just thinking back historically. Humans have been living a long time in dire danger and madness. The mongols were slaughtering.The barbarians from the north were slaughtering. The saracens were slaughtering. The christian troops were slaughtering. Etc ad infinitum. And when whole areas were not being put to the sword we were dying of plague, pestilence, childbirth and septic wounds. That has been thr general lot of our species. The slaughter is not old history either. 80 years ago Europeans were slaughtering each other in incomprehensible numbers. 20 years ago the west was bombing parts of the middle east back to brutal subsistence and slaughtering up to a million people. And even in the unusual peaceful plenty of recent decades plenty of individuals in our midst have been coping every day with unbearable sorrow, sickness, suicide, no job, bereavement etc.
Anyway - all to say, we are still doing okay generally. Theres a nice bit of spring sunshine out.

is_that_so

jackboy wrote: »

Yes I do, focus on the restrictions that actually control the virus.

Tens of thousands of people are currently working in busy multi nationals where the virus spread is easily controlled with a few very minor actions. Limited numbers in meeting rooms, canteen tables well spaced out, wear a mask when walking around the site. These simple actions mean that even the new variants can’t get a foothold. Retail with even more stringent precautions should not have an issue.

Retail never had an issue. MNCs with large well-ventilated open spaces and a WFH option are really not many other places. Socialisation in poorly ventilated spaces is and has always been the problem area. As much as can be closed off is but you cannot micro manage how people live their lives and who they meet.

is_that_so

Happydays2020 wrote: »

It seems (report in the Sunday Times) that the advice from NPHET is that reopening is being linked to making progress on hospital waiting lists.

How exactly are those two things connected? Waiting lists are not NPHET's purview.

SeaMermaid

We seem to be plateauing at approx 1000 cases a day. People are getting bored and fed up and there will be a reopening soon one way or another.

Reopening or the population not following the restrictions from a starting point of 1000 cases a day will be a disaster. I can't see case numbers come down more for a reopening. There's nothing else to add to lockdown to make it more stringent to get the numbers to drop further for a reopening.

Covid is going to spread like wildfire from now. It definitely feels like a piss into the wind against all the measures we took over the past year.

jackboy

is_that_so wrote: »

Retail never had an issue. MNCs with large well-ventilated open spaces and a WFH option are really not many other places. Socialisation in poorly ventilated spaces is and has always been the problem area. As much as can be closed off is but you cannot micro manage how people live their lives and who they meet.

If that is true then we cannot control the virus and it is level 5 for at least another 6 months until enough are vaccinated.

Locotastic

Happydays2020 wrote: »

It seems (report in the Sunday Times) that the advice from NPHET is that reopening is being linked to making progress on hospital waiting lists.

I saw that, Nphet has told the government to keep the present level of lockdown until hospitals begin to reduce their record waiting lists.

We'll be in lockdown forever!

Turtwig

is_that_so wrote: »

How exactly are those two things connected? Waiting lists are not NPHET's purview.

NPHET's remit is preservation of public services and healthcare. Pretty much every letter the CMO sends the minister of health is written with a view to keeping the impact on non covid care and extremely vulnerable groups such as mental disabilities as minimal as possible. This was the rationale for the 2nd level 5 lockdown.

The last wave has utterly fcked all these services. Recovery, if it's even possible, is going to take considerable time. Simply put we do not want more covid burden on our health system.

Happydays2020

is_that_so wrote: »

How exactly are those two things connected? Waiting lists are not NPHET's purview.

I don’t know if that is the advice or a journalist’s “interpretation” of advice.

It makes sense on one level. If people are locked up, if there are no sports games, no alcohol related fights, less car accidents etc etc then the health service will have an opportunity to catch up.

is_that_so

jackboy wrote: »

If that is true then we cannot control the virus and it is level 5 for at least another 6 months until enough are vaccinated.

That is not something that can be sold nor feasible and a lot more people will begin to ignore restrictions soon enough if they're told it'll be six months more.

is_that_so

Happydays2020 wrote: »

I don’t know if that is the advice or a journalist’s “interpretation” of advice.

It makes sense on one level. If people are locked up, if there are no sports games, no alcohol related fights, less car accidents etc etc then the health service will have an opportunity to catch up.

I'd go with a journalist's interpretation. It is none of their business, it's a HSE call.

Happydays2020

Locotastic wrote: »

I saw that, Nphet has told the government to keep the present level of lockdown until hospitals begin to reduce their record waiting lists.

We'll be in lockdown forever!

Easy for those who get paid by the State to recommend actions which continue to suppress the private sector.

Plumbthedepths

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Easy for those who get paid by the State to recommend actions which continue to suppress the private sector.

I wonder where exactly do they think the money to run such things as the health service is generated?

Doctor Jimbob

Happydays2020 wrote: »

It seems (report in the Sunday Times) that the advice from NPHET is that reopening is being linked to making progress on hospital waiting lists.

I'm fed up of the constantly moving goalposts.

We need to flatten the curve.

We need to get case numbers as low as possible.

We need to wait for vaccinations.

We need to see how variants play out.

We need to get the waiting lists down.

Sofa King Great

Gruffalux wrote: »

I know people are pissed off and bored. I get it a bit sometimes and I miss some people a lot. But its worth mantaining rational perspective. Was just thinking back historically. Humans have been living a long time in dire danger and madness. The mongols were slaughtering.The barbarians from the north were slaughtering. The saracens were slaughtering. The christian troops were slaughtering. Etc ad infinitum. And when whole areas were not being put to the sword we were dying of plague, pestilence, childbirth and septic wounds. That has been thr general lot of our species. The slaughter is not old history either. 80 years ago Europeans were slaughtering each other in incomprehensible numbers. 20 years ago the west was bombing parts of the middle east back to brutal subsistence and slaughtering up to a million people. And even in the unusual peaceful plenty of recent decades plenty of individuals in our midst have been coping every day with unbearable sorrow, sickness, suicide, no job, bereavement etc.
Anyway - all to say, we are still doing okay generally. Theres a nice bit of spring sunshine out.

There are hundreds of thousands out of work, people haven't seen loved ones for months on end, the economy is in ruins and there is a pandemic sweeping the globe. I feel like "bored" is a bit condescending

But sure its grand, if it was a few hundred years ago the mongols would be slaughtering us and its sunny out

Locotastic

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

I'm fed up of the constantly moving goalposts.

We need to flatten the curve.

We need to get case numbers as low as possible.

We need to wait for vaccinations.

We need to see how variants play out.

We need to get the waiting lists down.

They must think we're a nation of idiots, the communications recently have shown just how little regard they have for the 'common' people.

Whatever about previous government, at least they had some sense about trying to keep the nation on side.

Turtwig

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Easy for those who get paid by the State to recommend actions which continue to suppress the private sector.

Many elements of the private sector have prospered greatly from this. Many are also paid by the state.

The division of state and private isn't a binary one. The state at least will attempt to provide support to the areas shafted by this.