Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

Kha1993

Happydays2020 wrote: »

It seems (report in the Sunday Times) that the advice from NPHET is that reopening is being linked to making progress on hospital waiting lists.

So who leaked this then? NPHET? Government?

Another day - the goalposts being changed again. It’s been:
- cases under 100
- 4 weeks of cases under 100
- critical mass vaccinated
- waiting lists to be cleared.

jackboy

Turtwig wrote: »

The division of state and private isn't a binary one. The state at least will attempt to provide support to the areas shafted by this.

All the small businesses being destroyed by this will be left to die after this, there is no doubt about that. The real hardship for many will begin after the pandemic is under control.

is_that_so

Kha1993 wrote: »

So who leaked this then? NPHET? Government?

Another day - the goalposts being changed again. It’s been:
- cases under 100
- 4 weeks of cases under 100
- critical mass vaccinated
- waiting lists to be cleared.

The first two are a given, for any change, the third one for more significant relaxations and that last one has to be made up.

TonyMaloney

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Easy for those who get paid by the State to recommend actions which continue to suppress the private sector.

I work in the private sector, therefore I'm happy to see people in the public sector out of work.

No, wait. That's ****ing stupid.

is_that_so

Locotastic wrote: »

They must think we're a nation of idiots, the communications recently have shown just how little regard they have for the 'common' people.

Whatever about previous government, at least they had some sense about trying to keep the nation on side.

In retrospect, despite the grim times, they probably had an easier job of it as it was all about the restrictions and the emergence from those restrictions went smoothly enough. That said we only really heard from two people all the way through, Leo & Harris, now it's any TD.

Happydays2020

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I work in the private sector, therefore I'm happy to see people in the public sector out of work.

No, wait. That's ****ing stupid.

Are you a business owner? Are you self employed? Is your business closed?

There are 1000’s of businesses closed now and those people still have bills to pay. Hundreds of thousands of people are out of work.

Gruffalux

Sofa King Great wrote: »

There are hundreds of thousands out of work, people haven't seen loved ones for months on end, the economy is in ruins and there is a pandemic sweeping the globe. I feel like "bored" is a bit condescending

But sure its grand, if it was a few hundred years ago the mongols would be slaughtering us and its sunny out

You dont have to go back to the Mongols. Syria, Yemen, Iraq will do. Famine and slaughter. I dont know what the point is in exaggerating the present situation continuously as if it is some unbearable mass horror. That does not help anyone. People have suffered way worse. And suffer way worse every day. Encouraging fragility is no use. Better to foster resilience. The jobs and economy will come back. We have been there before. It was much more prolonged economic suffering in the 80s in Ireland for example. The pandemic is. It just is. One cannot change what is. We have to endure.

Plumbthedepths

is_that_so wrote: »

In retrospect, despite the grim times, they probably had an easier job of it as it was all about the restrictions and the emergence from those restrictions went smoothly enough. That said we only really heard from two people all the way through, Leo & Harris, now it's any TD.

Not just any TD, there's a myriad of other 'experts' given the opportunity to throw in their twopence worth.

Plumbthedepths

Gruffalux wrote: »

You dont have to go back to the Mongols. Syria, Yemen, Iraq will do. Famine and slaughter. I dont know what the point is in exaggerating the present situation continuously as if it is some unbearable mass horror. That does not help anyone. People have suffered way worse. And suffer way worse every day. Encouraging fragility is no use. Better to foster resilience. The jobs and economy will come back. We have been there before. It was much more prolonged economic suffering in the 80s in Ireland for example. The pandemic is. It just is. One cannot change what is. We have to endure.

Telling others how they should feel based on how bad things may have been in the past is beyond condescending tbh.

Locotastic

is_that_so wrote: »

In retrospect, despite the grim times, they probably had an easier job of it as it was all about the restrictions and the emergence from those restrictions went smoothly enough. That said we only really heard from two people all the way through, Leo & Harris, now it's any TD.

I think the media have a huge responsibility here too, some seem to be happy to publish any old opinion piece guessing at whats going to happen and when.

That, on top of leaks from government and NPHET means nobody has a clear picture of what's going on.

Happydays2020

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Not just any TD, there's a myriad of other 'experts' given the opportunity to throw in their twopence worth.

Especially that Tomas Ryan chap.

jackboy

Locotastic wrote: »

I think the media have a huge responsibility here too, some seem to be happy to publish any old opinion piece guessing at whats going to happen and when.

That, on top of leaks from government and NPHET means nobody has a clear picture of what's going on.

Why wouldn’t the media speculate when the government have no plan.

iamwhoiam

Gruffalux wrote: »

You dont have to go back to the Mongols. Syria, Yemen, Iraq will do. Famine and slaughter. I dont know what the point is in exaggerating the present situation continuously as if it is some unbearable mass horror. That does not help anyone. People have suffered way worse. And suffer way worse every day. Encouraging fragility is no use. Better to foster resilience. The jobs and economy will come back. We have been there before. It was much more prolonged economic suffering in the 80s in Ireland for example. The pandemic is. It just is. One cannot change what is. We have to endure.

This has nothing to do with the here and now .Its is not helpful if someone has worries to dismiss them by saying someone elses worry is much bigger
I learned very quickly as a young student nurse never to dismiss anyones pain or worry because the patients next doors pain was greater .

StevenToast

We need to flatten the curve....

Sofa King Great

Gruffalux wrote: »

You dont have to go back to the Mongols. Syria, Yemen, Iraq will do. Famine and slaughter. I dont know what the point is in exaggerating the present situation continuously as if it is some unbearable mass horror. That does not help anyone. People have suffered way worse. And suffer way worse every day. Encouraging fragility is no use. Better to foster resilience. The jobs and economy will come back. We have been there before. It was much more prolonged economic suffering in the 80s in Ireland for example. The pandemic is. It just is. One cannot change what is. We have to endure.

OK fine, all things are grand here because sure there was a drone strike in Syria

I dont think you can discount how people are feeling just because it is worse for others somewhere else either now or over the course of history.

You say we cannot change what is, we have to endure. That is defeatist, we can change how the government communicate the plan, we can change the resources put in to controlling spread by investing in more robust track and trace, tightening air travel and enforcing restrictions.

Locotastic

StevenToast wrote: »

We need to flatten the curve....

The next 2 weeks are crucial.....

TonyMaloney

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Are you a business owner? Are you self employed? Is your business closed?

There are 1000’s of businesses closed now and those people still have bills to pay. Hundreds of thousands of people are out of work.

I'm well aware of that. The point is that just because someone is employed by the state, it does not follow that they are devoid of empathy for those that are out of work.

It's similar to the narrative that those of us that are working from home do not give a **** about restrictions. We all have family and friends affected by this.

It is more a failing of your own empathy that you think like this.

Cluedo Monopoly

I hear they are ramping up the vaccine rollout program...again.

is_that_so

Sofa King Great wrote: »

OK fine, all things are grand here because sure there was a drone strike in Syria

I dont think you can discount how people are feeling just because it is worse for others somewhere else either now or over the course of history.

You say we cannot change what is, we have to endure. That is defeatist, we can change how the government communicate the plan, we can change the resources put in to controlling spread by investing in more robust track and trace, tightening air travel and enforcing restrictions.

Enforcing restrictions will become increasingly difficult and a point will be reached when they are no longer working effectively. Anecdotally that seems to be happening already.

is_that_so

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I hear they are ramping up the vaccine rollout program...again.

100K+ next week up from this week's 80K.

Sofa King Great

is_that_so wrote: »

Enforcing restrictions will become increasingly difficult and a point will be reached when they are no longer working effectively. Anecdotally that seems to be happening already.

I agree - I feel like the lack of enforcement of the serious breaches seriously undermines ability to enforce other restrictions

Bobeagleburger

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I hear they are ramping up the vaccine rollout program...again.

Yep 100,000 next week. Great to see.

Bobeagleburger

is_that_so wrote: »

Enforcing restrictions will become increasingly difficult and a point will be reached when they are no longer working effectively. Anecdotally that seems to be happening already.

The government are aware of this. That's why they’ll keep the restrictions longer. Keep places closed so mixing of people is kept to a minimum.

Then start opening up when the vulnerable are vaccinated. Seems fair enough.

is_that_so

6 wrote: »

The government are aware of this. That's why they’ll keep the restrictions longer. Keep places closed so mixing of people is kept to a minimum.

Then start opening up when the vulnerable are vaccinated. Seems fair enough.

The messaging on that at present is very shabby and more likely to encourage people not to follow them. I've heard anecdotal stuff about some urban areas where mask wearing in shops has all but disappeared.

Locotastic

6 wrote: »

The government are aware of this. That's why they’ll keep the restrictions longer. Keep places closed so mixing of people is kept to a minimum.

Then start opening up when the vulnerable are vaccinated. Seems fair enough.

It isn't fair to penalise the entire country because a minority of people can't be trusted to be responsible.

But that's been the problem all along.

They can't expect people to wait until legacy issues like waiting lists are resolved. I can't get a Smear test done at my regular gp, so there's one example of a huge backlog that probably won't be cleared this year.

Turtwig

Gruffalux wrote: »

You dont have to go back to the Mongols. Syria, Yemen, Iraq will do. Famine and slaughter. I dont know what the point is in exaggerating the present situation continuously as if it is some unbearable mass horror. That does not help anyone. People have suffered way worse. And suffer way worse every day. Encouraging fragility is no use. Better to foster resilience. The jobs and economy will come back. We have been there before. It was much more prolonged economic suffering in the 80s in Ireland for example. The pandemic is. It just is. One cannot change what is. We have to endure.

Suffering is always and will always be subjective. You can never compare a person's level of suffering. How they perceive it and how you think they perceive it are two very different things. Every experiences stress differently, has had different life experiences prior to that stress, they also have different measures of support and coping. It's a very dangerous thing to ever suggest someone's suffering is worse than another.

You are not wrong in people shouldn't ruminate into their own circle of misery. That's very dangerous. They should indeed focus on fostering resilience, but I feel you're going too far in suggesting historic suffering was worse or something. Suffering is suffering. Hardship is hardship. Whether someone is a billionaire or penniless they can suffer.

Away With The Fairies

So goalposts have been moved now and it's hospital waiting lists has to be reduced now.

How are hospital lists our responsibility? Is the government going to help us out with anything at all or just put all the work on us?

All our work over the past few weeks will be undone because people are fed up with this and they know it. Yet, the government won't do anything to keep it out. We want our life back as much as possible. It's about time they do something themselves and stop inviting infection in.

Jim_Hodge

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So goalposts have been moved now and it's hospital waiting lists has to be reduced now.

How are hospital lists our responsibility? Is the government going to help us out with anything at all or just put all the work on us?

All our work over the past few weeks will be undone because people are fed up with this and they know it. Yet, the government won't do anything to keep it out. We want our life back as much as possible. It's about time they do something themselves and stop inviting infection in.

Don't go jumping in based on an assumption and speculation by a journalist.

Turtwig

My guess is the latest CMO letter - likely acting CMO letter - mentions the waiting lists in a very different context. A journalist has got a leak of it, or even access to read it, and like all things this pandemic they've not reflected the full context or meaning behind it just went for the snazzy headline to emote a response from as many readers and followers as possible.

Could be wrong.

Bobeagleburger

Locotastic wrote: »

It isn't fair to penalise the entire country because a minority of people can't be trusted to be responsible.

.

You think the virus will only target the people who that can't be trusted. That's would be ideal, but doesn't work like that as we know.