Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

Ficheall

is_that_so wrote: »

Even if they had indicative periods like the UK one that would be progress

I don't understand why people think this will help - people complaining might quieten down for now, but they'll really lose their sh*t when they don't adhere to the indicated periods.

And the UK certainly haven't committed in stone to adhering to their timeline - "at the earliest", "sufficiently effective", "no risk of a surge", "no risk from new variants"... They've pushed their can a little further down the road, that's about it. We'll have their 8th March stuff when they do (I'm pretty sure?). Is this the same idea as people being tired of hearing bad news and wanting things sugarcoated, even if its bs?
I fully agree the gov't is doing a terrible communication job, but claiming the UK have done a great job here just seems to be a "grass is greener" complaint. Remember we had our Levels 1-5 and other countries were saying "Oh, that's brilliant, we'll copy them..." except it then turned out to be complete crap. I'll believe in the "UK roadmap" when (a) it happens, and (b) it doesn't lead them back into the sh*tshow of cases that they had previously. They do have the advantage of a faster vaccine rollout, of course, which will go a long way to speeding their recovery.

is_that_so

political analyst wrote: »

A musician called John H asked on Twitter whether Brazilian meat-factory workers brought in by that businessman were bringing variants of the virus into Ireland.

That sounds like the Bulgarian fruit pickers last March! Brazilian meat workers have been here for nearly 30 years. Most Brazilians are here for the conveyor belt language courses and the proximity of their arrivals to Christmas suggests a likely end to holiday at home.

caveat emptor

The whole one dose / two dose strategy is really a differentiating factor. They obviously believe one dose confers enough protection against hospitalisation and death for them to proceed with reopening etc. The latest data out showing this has probably allowed them to be optimistic with the reopening.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56153600

The first results of the UK vaccination programme suggests it is having a "spectacular" impact on preventing serious illness.
Research led by Public Health Scotland found at four weeks after the first dose, hospital admissions were reduced by 85% and 94% for the Pfizer and AstraZeneca jabs respectively.

We are quite a way off that unfortunately and perhaps we should revisit the strategy. We might have something more concrete to look forward to in the near to medium term.

MrMusician18

retro:electro wrote: »

There was a multitude of variables involved in why Christmas went the way it did.
We were promised a meaningful Christmas if we behaved and locked down for 6 weeks before restrictions were lifted. We weren’t out a wet week before we were threatened with more lockdowns so people made the most of the time they were given. People hadn’t seen family in months. We had an influx of travel and as a result of that we imported a collection of new variants, one that was far more transmissible than the one that had previously been dominant. We were in the height of the busiest times for hospitals anyway as seasonal illnesses usually surge in Dec/Jan and this is always the case every single year, Covid aside. It was a recipe for disaster in its entirety and it probably would have happened either way, as most people simply were not prepared to sacrifice Christmas after the year we had. So yeah, after a year of restricted movement people had the gall to visit family and enjoy themselves somewhat, as sanctioned by government when they decided to open things up.
The cheek of them. You’d swear people were going around spitting on people and licking them in the streets the way you’re casting judgement.

Anyway, the whole Christmas thing has been done to death at this stage. It happened. Move on.

Indeed there was, but there is a narrative being spun here that it was government that caused the post Christmas crisis and the third wave. It wasn't. It was the individual choices of millions of citizens that did.

The gall for visiting family, or the gall to selfishly perpetuate a public health crisis?

I'd love to move on, but I'm here sitting in a level 5 lockdown because of this behaviour, trapped no more than 5km from home. So yes, I'll cast judgement.

Also there's been SFA seasonal flu this year.

political analyst

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/news-opinion/pat-flanagan-column-criminal-hundreds-23408477

Primetime was at Dublin Airport this week to shame dozens of Irish fliers returning from a holiday in Lanzarote but somehow missed the 2,191 passengers who recently flew in from Brazil.

While the Canary Islands are not Covid-19 hotspots, Brazil certainly is and, what’s worse, it’s where the highly infectious P1 variant originated.

Why did the authorities not question the people who flew in from Brazil? Why has the government let them in?

FlubberJones

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

I personally think MMs comments since last Thursday have already fatally undermined the present lockdown. I'm uber law abiding, I live in a nice house, I can wfh easily and have had no paycut, so I will stick with it - but many more won't. Rubicon has been crossed I fear....

We here have similar but I am at the end of my tether and seeing positivity coming from 65 miles across the sea is incredibly frustrating,

iamwhoiam

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

I personally think MMs comments since last Thursday have already fatally undermined the present lockdown. I'm uber law abiding, I live in a nice house, I can wfh easily and have had no paycut, so I will stick with it - but many more won't. Rubicon has been crossed I fear....

I agree . The negativity , the lack of a pathway , the lack of hope made people throw in the towel and say F it .

is_that_so

Ficheall wrote: »

I don't understand why people think this will help - people complaining might quieten down for now, but they'll really lose their sh*t when they don't adhere to the indicated periods.

And the UK certainly haven't committed in stone to adhering to their timeline - "at the earliest", "sufficiently effective", "no risk of a surge", "no risk from new variants"... They've pushed their can a little further down the road, that's about it. We'll have their 8th March stuff when they do (I'm pretty sure?). Is this the same idea as people being tired of hearing bad news and wanting things sugarcoated, even if its bs?
I fully agree the gov't is doing a terrible communication job, but claiming the UK have done a great job here just seems to be a "grass is greener" complaint. Remember we had our Levels 1-5 and other countries were saying "Oh, that's brilliant, we'll copy them..." except it then turned out to be complete crap. I'll believe in the "UK roadmap" when (a) it happens, and (b) it doesn't lead them back into the sh*tshow of cases that they had previously. They do have the advantage of a faster vaccine rollout, of course, which will go a long way to speeding their recovery.

It's a sense that there is planning going on rather than just waiting for a future set of numbers to come to pass. Last May we knew there was one even if the bulk of it was way out of reach. It helps give people a chance to set their own internal map, brings a bit of hope. What is being communicated at present could be the end of May for all we know.

MrMusician18

is_that_so wrote: »

It's a sense that there is planning going on rather than just waiting for a future set of numbers to come to pass. Last May we knew there was one even if the bulk of it was way out of reach. It helps give people a chance to set their own internal map, brings a bit of hope. What is being communicated at present could be the end of May for all we know.

What good is hope when it ends up dashed? Sure that only makes people more dejected?

mr zulu

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What good is hope when it ends up dashed? Sure that only makes people more dejected?

Im glad your not a doctor.

Ficheall

I get you, but it's just posturing really.. Boris has a reputation for talking a big game and not delivering.
If they announce provisional dates, there'll be people booking weddings/holidays whatever for X date + 1, and then we'll be back to the same point with people even more disgruntled when they can't deliver.

Dr. Bre

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What got us here in the first place, oh yeah, everyone doing whatever the hell they wanted at Christmas.

Your still banging that drum

Coybig_

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What good is hope when it ends up dashed? Sure that only makes people more dejected?

Have you any factual basis for the claim that the hope given by this is going to end up dashed? You speak about this as if it is a certainty. Proof please?

Or is this just another in your long line of relentlessly negative, baseless crap?

timmyntc

Ficheall wrote: »

I get you, but it's just posturing really.. Boris has a reputation for talking a big game and not delivering.
If they announce provisional dates, there'll be people booking weddings/holidays whatever for X date + 1, and then we'll be back to the same point with people even more disgruntled when they can't deliver.

Boris may well hit his targets given a whopping 25% of UK have gotten 1st vaccine dose, & studies indicate after 1st dose you are 80% less likely to end up in hospital.

If they push on and vaccinate the vulnerable then could easily be hitting all those targets, if not pushing them forward by some weeks.

is_that_so

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What good is hope when it ends up dashed? Sure that only makes people more dejected?

A plan tells them there will be an end to it and they can then make their own plans. I don't think people need the detail in the UK plan just yet, just an indicator of what it might look like. That's the carrot. For now we don't even have a level at which such a plan might be ready to go. As for dashed hopes I think we expect that anyway and the way we will deal with that is to stop complying, not in really reckless ways but beginning to connect physically with more people.

Plumbthedepths

Coybig_ wrote: »

Have you any factual basis for the claim that the hope given by this is going to end up dashed? You speak about this as if it is a certainty. Proof please?

Or is this just another in your long line of relentlessly negative, baseless crap?

I'm guessing option 2

Monster249

MrMusician18 wrote: »

What good is hope when it ends up dashed? Sure that only makes people more dejected?

The arbitrary numbers that they've pulled out of their arse that we need to meet before they allow reopening are impossible to hit.

iamwhoiam

is_that_so wrote: »

A plan tells them there will be an end to it and they can make their own plans. I don't think people need the detail in the UK plan just yet, just an indicator of what it might look like. That's the carrot. For now we don't even have a level at which such a plan might be ready to go. As for dashed hopes I think we expect that anyway and the way we will deal with that is to stop complying, not in really reckless ways but beginning to connect physically with more people.

Already happened . People saw the negativity , no clear path , no hope , nothing positive to guide them and threw in tje towel
People are meeting in gardens now and being sensible , careful and mature about it
Without leadership people choose their own path

MrMusician18

Coybig_ wrote: »

Have you any factual basis for the claim that the hope given by this is going to end up dashed? You speak about this as if it is a certainty. Proof please?

Or is this just another in your long line of relentlessly negative, baseless crap?

Previous targets and dates have been missed, largely because adherence dropped approaching them (see December). It is a certainty that people will start to change behaviour 2 weeks out from target dates.

If you actually read my posts, I'm not relentlessly negative. I suspect that we will be largely opened up in May as vaccine starts to take effect in the vulnerable populations and we largely hold firm. Putting target dates on this jeopardises these potential successes.

Ficheall

timmyntc wrote: »

Boris may well hit his targets given a whopping 25% of UK have gotten 1st vaccine dose, & studies indicate after 1st dose you are 80% less likely to end up in hospital.

If they push on and vaccinate the vulnerable then could easily be hitting all those targets, if not pushing them forward by some weeks.

I agree - they've a huge advantage on that score. So what do people want our gov't to base their "steps to success" on? A similar roadmap? Because if we're waiting until we've a comparable number vaccinated to copy the UK, then it will be what, May by the time we reach their Step 1? Would people be happy with that "plan"? Maybe August for their Step 2?

MrMusician18

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Your still banging that drum

It's a drum that needs banging because it's the reason we are where we are.

We are quick to blame government but it's our fellow citizens we should be looking at.

agoodpunt

is_that_so wrote: »

Over 13,000 Brazilians living here legally, the vast majority are not in meat factories.

There is a brazalian dentist in phibsoro and a hansum man he is too was thinking of getting work now will hold off till i get to my home country to much info me thinks.
No rickshaw, a proper AXCS Chair
That was 10 days ago no symptoms or expectations of same

CruelSummer

Who thought we'd see the day when the U.K. and Boris Johnson would make an absolute holy show out of our 'Existing with Covid' plan that's due tomorrow. RTÉ were pathetic on Drive Time there on Radio 1 actually trying to talk it down - variants, is it too fast, someone please find us some negativity to spin...

What the Government SHOULD announce tomorrow:
- Reopening of schools
- Abolishment of 5km restriction and proper policing / ticketing of beauty spots. A busy beauty spot is not enough of a reason to keep people imprisoned for weeks on end under the 5km rule.
- Reopen outdoor sports like golf, tennis.
- Show us the goal as to what we are currently working towards - 'outdoor summer' / no indoor dining, etc. Absolutely pathetic plan and not good enough.

CruelSummer

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It's a drum that needs banging because it's the reason we are where we are.

We are quick to blame government but it's our fellow citizens we should be looking at.

Yes let's all turn on each other, report each other to the Gardaí, and most importantly keep blaming ourselves for Christmas. We need to meekly accept and swallow what our resident Zero Covid neuroscientists (Tomás Ryan), and others state without question or more importantly 'facts' to back them up.
Wear our masks and shut up, separate from our loved ones, stay home, stay safe, sanitise our hands - same answer NPHET give if they're asked for long term plans at their press conferences.

timmyntc

Ficheall wrote: »

I agree - they've a huge advantage on that score. So what do people want our gov't to base their "steps to success" on? A similar roadmap? Because if we're waiting until we've a comparable number vaccinated to copy the UK, then it will be what, May by the time we reach their Step 1? Would people be happy with that "plan"? Maybe August for their Step 2?

Keep vaccinating, and base the reopening on ICU & hospital numbers.
NOT cases. As vulnerable get vaccinated, the conversion from cases to hospitalisations to deaths will change a lot (in a good way).

So long as the Govt dont bow to NPHET in this, as NPHET will set a target of 0 in ICU - their approach of 1 death being too many doesnt work in the real world.

MethMartin

TheDoctor wrote: »

Do we see the North going with the same dates as mainland UK?

12 April - Shops, hairdressers, gyms and outdoor hospitality

17 May - Cinemas, hotels, performances and sporting events also restart at this point - including up to 10,000 fans in largest stadiums.

NI's tourism will be booming by the summer while Rep Ire will be locked down. All Irish people will be travelling up north and spending all the money they've saved.

caveat emptor

Good news, Very good news. Surprising astra one more effective than the extremely effective Pfizer one.

https://twitter.com/UniofOxford/status/1363900139891548166?s=20

Turtwig

CruelSummer wrote: »

Who thought we'd see the day when the U.K. and Boris Johnson would make an absolutely holy show out or our 'Existing with Covid' plan that's due tomorrow. RTÉ were pathetic on Drive Time there on Radio 1 actually trying to talk it down - variants, is it too fast, someone please find us some negativity to spin...

What the Government SHOULD announce tomorrow:
- Reopening of schools
- Abolishment of 5km restriction and proper policing / ticketing of beauty spots. A busy beauty spot is not enough of a reason to keep people imprisoned for weeks on end under the 5km rule.
- Reopen outdoor sports like golf, tennis.
- Show us the goal as to what we are currently working towards - 'outdoor summer' / no indoor dining, etc. Absolutely pathetic plan and not good enough.

England aren't planning reopening outdoor sports life golf/tennis until 29 March at the earliest.

MrMusician18

CruelSummer wrote: »

Yes let's all turn on each other, report each other to the Gardaí, and most importantly keep blaming ourselves for Christmas. We need to meekly accept and swallow what our resident Zero Covid neuroscientists (Tomás Ryan), and others state without question or more importantly 'facts' to back them up.
Wear our masks and shut up, separate from our loved ones, stay home, stay safe, sanitise our hands - same answer NPHET give if they're asked for long term plans at their press conferences.

No need to keep blaming ourselves for Christmas, but perhaps taking ownership of the damage this has caused would be a start. Then they start trying to make amends by actually trying their best to stick to the rules.

The quicker people do this, the quicker we get out of this mess. I don't hold out much hope for this though, we are only good at blaming government and not ourselves. It was always thus.

Arduach

agoodpunt wrote: »

There is a brazalian dentist in phibsoro and a hansum man he is too was thinking of getting work now will hold off till i get to my home country to much info me thinks.
No rickshaw, a proper AXCS Chair
That was 10 days ago no symptoms or expectations of same

WTF!