Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

mohawk

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I haven't been listening to Irish radio for some weeks now, for all the reasons that have been talked about here regularly (I listen to Times radio in the UK - a new station and so much more professional).

Anyway, I tuned into Newstalk 10 minutes ago and the first thing I heard was PK saying that he wanted to scare us. That we were becoming desensitized to COVID due to the numbers, and that if we were thinking of going out and breaking the restrictions then we should listen to the next piece, which was a mother and daughter making a recording at their kitchen table talking about their ICU experience. Like he literally said that his intention was to scare us this morning into staying in. The quality of Irish broadcasting is utterly terrible and getting worse - I'm gong back to British radio

The media and politician’s want to push the stories of younger people getting very very sick with it because otherwise more and more people will just switch off from it all.
It has probably hit every town and village by now and nearly all of us know people who have gotten it. When you start to hear of more and more people who of gotten it and are saying they got over it grand then the fear of it decreases. Personally I know two elderly people who were in very poor health that passed away after catching it in a nursing home. I also know of another much younger person who died after catching it in hospital. The younger person passing away freaked people out whereas the older people passing away didn’t have the same affect at all.

Stateofyou

is_that_so wrote: »

The transmissibility rate, conjecture or not, can throw out modelling especially R0. While it's less likely to be such a big deal in locked down countries like ourselves, it is significant in places where there is a lot more activity. The real problem in this scenario, as always, is the cavalier media reporting on it, with conjecture as fact and the absolute worst case as the headline.

Media may have their sensational headlines, but world leaders and other health experts and health leaders are speaking now very matter of factly, directly to the public about the increased transmissibility of the new strains.

I'm sure someone here following this more closely who has more time and maybe the links direct to hand (as I've seen them posted here and elsewhere before) can post the data with an understandable summary.

Drumpot

froog wrote: »

claire: "are you the vaccine lead?"
donnelly: " *laughs* I guess i am, yeah"


****ing hell.

I’d hope people wouldn’t confuse the benefits of not being VIT D deficient with this nonsense. VIT D and zinc are not panaceas and while they may help on some level that’s it, you don’t quote them as alternative to medical help , particularly when somebody has been hospitalised.

One thing this and Trumps legacy has thought us is that fake news (ironically this phrase coined by Trump) has shown how vicious it is at manipulating and misinforming people. The world is now being destabilised with social networks and our connectivity being used against us. Many people do not know who to trust or what is true and bullsh*t.

Ferris_Bueller

Yesterday was up there as the most depressing day of the entire pandemic so far, I really wish I could go back 24 hours and not have listened to their announcement yesterday. I think most people accepted before hand that these restrictions would go on for another month or so, that wasn't the issue. People are following the restrictions and doing their bit, the past month or so has probably been the first time in a good few months that I've felt the majority of the country have been on the same page again, summer through to Christmas felt like there were a lot of people just ignoring the restrictions but that has changed in the new year and people are compliant again.

But for them to be so incredibly negative and not even give a slither of hope or optimism is horrible. I don't think people mind being in lockdown for another few weeks (although easy for me to say, I don't own a business and am still working) but without having anything to look forward to or any end goal in sight is going to make it really tough and might end up having the opposite effect of people disregarding the guidelines again over the coming weeks.

Surely it would not have killed them to say something optimistic. The cases were below a thousand for the first time in weeks yesterday, they are dropping pretty fast and hospital numbers are going down, we have multiple vaccines available and are doing quite well in terms of vaccination numbers - there are positive news stories out there. But when Míchael and Leo were asked if they had any positive news for anyone they just swatted it away and went overboard with the doom and gloom. It showed me how out of touch they are with the general population. Even something simple like saying if we all keep doing what we're doing we might beat this virus and have a reasonable summer would have given people some hope - but instead it feels like there is no end in sight and that even with a vaccine and everyone vaccinated we might still not get out of this mess. Depressing.

is_that_so

Stateofyou wrote: »

Media may have their sensational headlines, but world leaders and other health experts and health leaders are speaking now very matter of factly, directly to the public about the increased transmissibility of the new strains.

I'm sure someone here following this more closely who has more time and maybe the links direct to hand (as I've seen them posted here and elsewhere before) can post the data with an understandable summary.

You can't be matter of fact about guesswork! The vaccines are confirmed effective against B1117 but seem to have reduced efficacy against the other one, but still work.

CalamariFritti

Arghus wrote: »

Well we all know what the ultimate goal is - to have enough of the population vaccinated so that normality can return.

While I didn't think the Government's talking heads were very impressive earlier I'm not going to work myself into a rage about it today.

Today was a broadly positive day, with of course the caveat of all of the deaths, which was sad to see.

But, nonetheless, it was still the first day where we announced cases in mere triple figures in a long while. Things are not wonderful, but they're undeniably improving in the most fundamental aspect: getting the virus under control.

Relative to where we were three weeks ago it was by no means guaranteed that we'd be here by now, a lot of people seem to have taken that for granted.

Whatever about our plans and aspirations we can't do anything until first and foremost we have a semblance of control over the virus and we seem to be gradually getting there, which comes after great effort. So we have to be broadly positive about that rather than negative.

Do we need a plan for the future? Of course. Does the government need to up their game in terms of concrete plans, strategy and communication? Absolutely, 100%. But at the same time people who expected that to be articulated today were bound to be disappointed.

Right now the immediate aim is still exactly the same as it was two to three weeks ago. The virus is still at a high level out there, better than what it was, but still at a point where if the gains we made aren't sustained then everything will once again become much more difficult. Compliance from the public is still crucial. The government and other health authorities can't really ease up on that. Maybe we aren't fighting an inferno to the same extent as the start of the month, but it's still a healthy blaze that could take off easily again.

The endgame and the timing of it is totally dependent on the availability of vaccines and that is uncertain at the moment. And a lot of the Government's best laid plans are contingent on others in that regard at the moment. There's supply issues and approval issues all across Europe. Our government isn't alone in effectively being stuck in limbo until theres more clarity and confidence in this area. We're in a holding position for the next few weeks, that's the truth of it.

I'd be stunned if by the middle of the next month there aren't solid dates and numbers being put on targets to reach, but so much is dependent on virus levels over the next month and more clarity regarding vaccines.

Right now the government can not make promises about we will have normality by such and such a date - that is unrealistic given what we are dealing with. And look around - nobody is making that promise. It's a period of great uncertainty worldwide, not just in Ireland.

Look I'm sorry that I snapped at you yesterday. While I think you are too lenient in terms of government/nphet performance I do respect you as a poster.

And in that context I will say that the goal and the metric should have been defined months ago. Its not something I can accept they will get around to when the situation allows it. Of course you have to react to the situation. But you need to define the goal and you need to define the metric for it if for no other reason to give the population who are in parts quite on the edge by now something. Even if its just very high level and wishy washy. People need to understand what they are working for and they need to see progress.

Right now it seems like a never ending spiral of doom. A lot of people are beginning to think life as we knew it will never return and plenty of people for some reason love whistling to that tune. It is nothing but despair. Thats is a really bad thing to be doing to people. Even if it was true it would be a bad thing to do. There really is no excuse for it.

ninebeanrows

It will be a game changer when the UK really accelerate through their vaccine program.

They are really ramping it up and as our societies are so intertwined we will feed off the increasing optimism over the Irish Sea even without having the same levels of immunization.

I would expect the UK are planning to open society for the late spring/summer so we might follow suit

DraftDodger

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Yesterday was up there as the most depressing day of the entire pandemic so far, I really wish I could go back 24 hours and not have listened to their announcement yesterday. I think most people accepted before hand that these restrictions would go on for another month or so, that wasn't the issue. People are following the restrictions and doing their bit, the past month or so has probably been the first time in a good few months that I've felt the majority of the country have been on the same page again, summer through to Christmas felt like there were a lot of people just ignoring the restrictions but that has changed in the new year and people are compliant again.

But for them to be so incredibly negative and not even give a slither of hope or optimism is horrible. I don't think people mind being in lockdown for another few weeks (although easy for me to say, I don't own a business and am still working) but without having anything to look forward to or any end goal in sight is going to make it really tough and might end up having the opposite effect of people disregarding the guidelines again over the coming weeks.

Surely it would not have killed them to say something optimistic. The cases were below a thousand for the first time in weeks yesterday, they are dropping pretty fast and hospital numbers are going down, we have multiple vaccines available and are doing quite well in terms of vaccination numbers - there are positive news stories out there. But when Míchael and Leo were asked if they had any positive news for anyone they just swatted it away and went overboard with the doom and gloom. It showed me how out of touch they are with the general population. Even something simple like saying if we all keep doing what we're doing we might beat this virus and have a reasonable summer would have given people some hope - but instead it feels like there is no end in sight and that even with a vaccine and everyone vaccinated we might still not get out of this mess. Depressing.

Not really tbh. It's important they are honest about the situation we are facing as they haven't up until now. The "people need hope" rubbish should be left to the Shawshank Redemptioners of this world. I want my politicians to be honest and treat us like adults.

Eod100

Seems like another issue that government bring in without actually consulting people who will be dealing with it.

It's about Gardai enforcing the quarantine at home restriction.

https://twitter.com/SeanDefoe/status/1354380527458017280

DraftDodger

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

It will be a game changer when the UK really accelerate through their vaccine program.

They are really ramping it up and as our societies are so intertwined we will feed off the increasing optimism over the Irish Sea even without having the same levels of immunization.

I would expect the UK are planning to open society for the late spring/summer so we might follow suit

We are part of the EU so total different kettle of fish im afraid. The Brits are powering ahead and leaving us behind when it comes to the vaccination programme.

Drumpot

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Yesterday was up there as the most depressing day of the entire pandemic so far, I really wish I could go back 24 hours and not have listened to their announcement yesterday. I think most people accepted before hand that these restrictions would go on for another month or so, that wasn't the issue. People are following the restrictions and doing their bit, the past month or so has probably been the first time in a good few months that I've felt the majority of the country have been on the same page again, summer through to Christmas felt like there were a lot of people just ignoring the restrictions but that has changed in the new year and people are compliant again.

But for them to be so incredibly negative and not even give a slither of hope or optimism is horrible. I don't think people mind being in lockdown for another few weeks (although easy for me to say, I don't own a business and am still working) but without having anything to look forward to or any end goal in sight is going to make it really tough and might end up having the opposite effect of people disregarding the guidelines again over the coming weeks.

Surely it would not have killed them to say something optimistic. The cases were below a thousand for the first time in weeks yesterday, they are dropping pretty fast and hospital numbers are going down, we have multiple vaccines available and are doing quite well in terms of vaccination numbers - there are positive news stories out there. But when Míchael and Leo were asked if they had any positive news for anyone they just swatted it away and went overboard with the doom and gloom. It showed me how out of touch they are with the general population. Even something simple like saying if we all keep doing what we're doing we might beat this virus and have a reasonable summer would have given people some hope - but instead it feels like there is no end in sight and that even with a vaccine and everyone vaccinated we might still not get out of this mess. Depressing.

I didn’t watch or see that, not much has changed for me over the last few months. People need to stop expecting the authorities and government to make them feel better, that’s not their job. I’d say pandering to the public to offer optimism is not what we need. They pandered to the public desires in December and this is where we ended up.

There is hope, you don’t need the government to tell you that. How you feel about the news is not necessarily a reflection of how things actually are. There are vaccines that will be rolled out over the year. We didn’t have that 6 months ago when our numbers were low in august and everything seemed to be on the up. March 5th is the minimum lockdown period, people need to stop seeing these dates as targets for reduction in restrictions as they are setting themselves up for a fall. It’s unrealistic and unreasonable to expect any government to have definite answers to elements of this crisis. This isn’t to say mistakes haven’t and are not being made, moreso that in general I don’t think perfection should be expected.

Right now everybody needs to stay alert. That is the priority. Every person has to take responsibility for how they are handling this and not blame others for how they feel. Work on your mental health. Get support, reach out to others, share how you feel with friends. I don’t say this without empathy, I suffer savage mental health issues But I’ve learned that I can’t rely on others to make me feel better. Expecting the government to offer optimism is leaving you at their mercy, own that and don’t expect them to make you feel better. Their job is to manage the crisis. People need to start being self reliant and filtering out the noise that upsets them.

Cluedo Monopoly

I know I have asked this before but have the HSE produced a recent Covid-Deaths-By-Date-of-Death graph? It's an important metric.

robfowler78

Just looking at the hospital numbers there. Do these numbers include the private hospitals? Are we using any capacity from the private hospitals now as in real time or are we doing the same as we did in The first wave paying for the hospitals but not actually using them.

Plumbthedepths

DraftDodger wrote: »

Not really tbh. It's important they are honest about the situation we are facing as they haven't up until now. The "people need hope" rubbish should be left to the Shawshank Redemptioners of this world. I want my politicians to be honest and treat us like adults.

You want your politicians tbh ? You have a better chance of winning the lottery, although you wouldn't have anywhere to spend it.

Chopper Dave

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

.

Surely it would not have killed them to say something optimistic. The cases were below a thousand for the first time in weeks yesterday, they are dropping pretty fast and hospital numbers are going down, we have multiple vaccines available and are doing quite well in terms of vaccination numbers - there are positive news stories out there. But when Míchael and Leo were asked if they had any positive news for anyone they just swatted it away and went overboard with the doom and gloom. It showed me how out of touch they are with the general population. Even something simple like saying if we all keep doing what we're doing we might beat this virus and have a reasonable summer would have given people some hope - but instead it feels like there is no end in sight and that even with a vaccine and everyone vaccinated we might still not get out of this mess. Depressing.

I agree and I'm really sick of the two day leaking of decisions which just prolongs the whole negativity. I suspect they have an eye to the next few weeks when cases and hospitalisations begin to fall in a meaningful way and people begin to look for a relaxation of the lockdown.

froog

Drumpot wrote: »

I’d hope people wouldn’t confuse the benefits of not being VIT D deficient with this nonsense. VIT D and zinc are not panaceas and while they may help on some level that’s it, you don’t quote them as alternative to medical help , particularly when somebody has been hospitalised.

One thing this and Trumps legacy has thought us is that fake news (ironically this phrase coined by Trump) has shown how vicious it is at manipulating and misinforming people. The world is now being destabilised with social networks and our connectivity being used against us. Many people do not know who to trust or what is true and bullsh*t.

eh? misquote?

Sleety_Rain

Sleety_Rain wrote: »

It will be a game changer when the UK really accelerate through their vaccine program.

They are really ramping it up and as our societies are so intertwined we will feed off the increasing optimism over the Irish Sea even without having the same levels of immunization.

I would expect the UK are planning to open society for the late spring/summer so we might follow suit

It would be a game changer for Ireland if the vaccinations reduced transmission rather than just illness. Most of our cross border traffic is from the UK, and if that was eliminated as a vector of transmission, then it would change things here significantly. Unfortunately, it seems like vaccinated people can still be carriers, so I dont suppose it really changes things much

Stateofyou

is_that_so wrote: »

You can't be matter of fact about guesswork! The vaccines are confirmed effective against B1117 but seem to have reduced efficacy against the other one, but still work.

It's not guesswork. It is based on scientific studies, obviously. Leaders are advised by expert health teams and scientists. This back and forth now is getting tiresome.

mcburns07

Stateofyou wrote: »

Conjecture doesn't mean conclusive.

Have you asked yourself why scientists are stating these figures - obviously there is data they have studied that led to this estimate. Studied any of the raw data yourself lately? Read and properly understood the outgoing published reports? How do you know what is or isn't bearing out in the data?

Can you share some links to this raw data and reports that you have studied yourself?

I don't think i've heard any scientists say it but i've heard plenty of politicians stating it like it was an indisputable fact!

is_that_so

Stateofyou wrote: »

It's not guesswork. It is based on scientific studies, obviously. This back and forth now is getting tiresome.

Well, you can always resist the urge to reply! I'll save you the trouble with one final point. Go look up some of these studies. They are full of may, could, might and up to x% more transmissible - i.e. speculation and guesswork that needs more study.

seamus

Cluedo Monopoly wrote: »

I know I have asked this before but have the HSE produced a recent Covid-Deaths-By-Date-of-Death graph? It's an important metric.

You'll find the most recent one here. The graph is near the end of the report.


https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/epidemiologyofcovid-19inirelandweeklyreports/

Kunta Kinte

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You want your politicians tbh ? You have a better chance of winning the lottery, although you wouldn't have anywhere to spend it.

So you believe that all politicians are dishonest? A broad sweeping statement there. There are undoubtedly a number of gombeens in the Dail, the Seanad, on county councils etc. but to tar them all with the same brush is unfair and inaccurate.

Plumbthedepths

Kunta Kinte wrote: »

So you believe that all politicians are dishonest? A broad sweeping statement there. There are undoubtedly a number of gombeens in the Dail, the Seanad on county councils etc. but to tar to them all with the same brush is unfair and inaccurate.

I'm happy to use a wide brush. Honesty stops at the gates of Leinster House imo.

Stateofyou

is_that_so wrote: »

Well, you can always resist the urge to reply! I'll save you the trouble with one final point. Go look up some of these studies. They are full of may, could, might and up to x% more transmissible - i.e. speculation and guesswork that needs more study.

You go look them up. I have read some. I believe in all of them they say more data is needed. But based on PRELIMINARY data these are their findings, and world leaders have obviously got to try and get in front of it. JFC. You're the one who's making a bold claim to say world leaders and health experts conclusions is fake news/guesswork. When actually they are rightly alerting all other countries and health teams and people to the best data we have at present. I honestly don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

Ferris_Bueller

DraftDodger wrote: »

Not really tbh. It's important they are honest about the situation we are facing as they haven't up until now. The "people need hope" rubbish should be left to the Shawshank Redemptioners of this world. I want my politicians to be honest and treat us like adults.

Not exactly how I would describe Leo or Mícheal. Treating us like adults has been off the table for a long time with numerous ridiculous rules over the past 10 months and their lack of action on big issues such as travel in and out of the country.

Drumpot wrote: »

I didn’t watch or see that, not much has changed for me over the last few months. People need to stop expecting the authorities and government to make them feel better, that’s not their job. I’d say pandering to the public to offer optimism is not what we need. They pandered to the public desires in December and this is where we ended up.

There is hope, you don’t need the government to tell you that. How you feel about the news is not necessarily a reflection of how things actually are. There are vaccines that will be rolled out over the year. We didn’t have that 6 months ago when our numbers were low in august and everything seemed to be on the up. March 5th is the minimum lockdown period, people need to stop seeing these dates as targets for reduction in restrictions as they are setting themselves up for a fall. It’s unrealistic and unreasonable to expect any government to have definite answers to elements of this crisis. This isn’t to say mistakes haven’t and are not being made, moreso that in general I don’t think perfection should be expected.

Right now everybody needs to stay alert. That is the priority. Every person has to take responsibility for how they are handling this and not blame others for how they feel. Work on your mental health. Get support, reach out to others, share how you feel with friends. I don’t say this without empathy, I suffer savage mental health issues But I’ve learned that I can’t rely on others to make me feel better. Expecting the government to offer optimism is leaving you at their mercy, own that and don’t expect them to make you feel better. Their job is to manage the crisis. People need to start being self reliant and filtering out the noise that upsets them.

While it is not their primary job to make people feel better, I would argue it is part of their remit as leaders of the country. They have to manage the public, I think announcements like yesterdays will only cause frustration and have the opposite effect on what you are talking about above in terms of people being cautious and personal responsibility. I think Christmas was a good example in a way, everyone knew that we were going to be going back into lockdown in January so people said "feck it, might as well make the most of it while I can". Yesterdays announcement did not exactly have an inspiring effect and make me think "okay keep going with this and things will get better", in fact it made me feel like sure what is the point of not seeing anyone when it could be like this for another year.

Stateofyou

mcburns07 wrote: »

Can you share some links to this raw data and reports that you have studied yourself?

I don't think i've heard any scientists say it but i've heard plenty of politicians stating it like it was an indisputable fact!

No, I won't. Because as I am saying all along, I trust that those much more intelligent and qualified than me, in the expert (and informed leadership) positions they are in, to disseminate and release the information that they-as qualified trained experts- have studied. Jesus, what is even going on here right now. That should be obvious.

Kunta Kinte

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm happy to use a wide brush. Honesty stops at the gates of Leinster House imo.

How and why specifically do you believe this to be so?

Eod100

The public shouting match between EU and AstraZeneca is continuing.

Now EU asking for contract to be made public. Getting a bit messy!

https://twitter.com/adamparsons/status/1354391182210699266

https://www.thejournal.ie/astrazeneca-ceo-eu-commission-vaccine-5336595-Jan2021/

froog

i'm guessing EU has the better lawyers here.

is_that_so

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Not exactly how I would describe Leo or Mícheal. Treating us like adults has been off the table for a long time with numerous ridiculous rules over the past 10 months and their lack of action on big issues such as travel in and out of the country.




While it is not their primary job to make people feel better, I would argue it is part of their remit as leaders of the country. They have to manage the public, I think announcements like yesterdays will only cause frustration and have the opposite effect on what you are talking about above in terms of people being cautious and personal responsibility. I think Christmas was a good example in a way, everyone knew that we were going to be going back into lockdown in January so people said "feck it, might as well make the most of it while I can". Yesterdays announcement did not exactly have an inspiring effect and make me think "okay keep going with this and things will get better", in fact it made me feel like sure what is the point of not seeing anyone when it could be like this for another year.

I think that format is all wrong for what was communicated yesterday, which was unrelentingly grim information and views for over an hour. There is now a challenge in delivering ongoing updates as it will effectively be more of the same for the next two months. The only positive stuff might be the CMO patting us all on the back, the way he does and the increasing vaccination numbers.