Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

cameramonkey

Irish Steve wrote: »

As things are now, we have a long established distribution chain that is highly dependent on Ro-Ro vehicles

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210117-france-may-require-rapid-covid-19-tests-from-irish-truck-drivers-arriving-via-sea-not-uk

tom1ie

kippy wrote: »

Getting to zero covid is not a lifting of restrictions, it is a far greater set of restrictions initially, with a robost set of border controls.

It's not just about the 70% of the population.
The key thing with the vaccinne is that is is rolled out to protect the most vulnerable and front line workers first. ie the groups who are at high risk of hospitalisation and/or death from the virus.
I believe restrictions will gradually ease as we go through the year because the risks of hospital over crowding decreases.
(Now I am not saying that we should contine with the laze fare approach to incoming travellers) but the general zero covid strategy is close too a year too late at this point to really help us.

We need to be getting to 70% herd immunity to stop the virus spreading before restrictions can be completely lifted.

Red Silurian

kippy wrote: »

Mandatory quarentine of 14 days for anyone entering the country - no matter the reason. Testing while in quarentine.
Locking down the NI border to some extent and/or coming up with an island approach to the above.
Further restrictions on the limits around distance allowed from home and a greater increase in penalties and policing of the existing regulations.
All of the above for an initial 6 weeks or so and the border controls/quarentine for as long as it was deemed necessary.

The practicalities of the NI issue are the core problem.

The UK look set to announce something similar, if the UK (including NI) all have 14 day managed isolation then the open border with the North isn't an issue

kippy

tom1ie wrote: »

You clearly didn’t address any of the points that have been raised to tell you it’s not too late.

Because you simply cannot ignore that fact that Northern Ireland is a massive glaring issue.
Nor can you ignore all of the points brough up about the time it would take to implement all of the freight based issues.
Not can you ignore the fact that it would take a significant amount of time to spin up Mandatory quarentine and testing at the travellers expense.

All in the context of a vacine rollout that is going to ensure the higher risk groups will be vacinated in the next few months.

tom1ie

kippy wrote: »

Mandatory quarentine of 14 days for anyone entering the country - no matter the reason. Testing while in quarentine.
Locking down the NI border to some extent and/or coming up with an island approach to the above.
Further restrictions on the limits around distance allowed from home and a greater increase in penalties and policing of the existing regulations.
All of the above for an initial 6 weeks or so and the border controls/quarentine for as long as it was deemed necessary.

The practicalities of the NI issue are the core problem.

Are we really that far off these measures?
Especially if the UK bring in 14 day quarantine.

kippy

tom1ie wrote: »

We need to be getting to 70% herd immunity to stop the virus spreading before restrictions can be completely lifted.

Agreed. Before restrictions are completely lifted. The word being completely. And that could be some way off. Buy restrictions will be unwound as the at risk groups get vacinated.....

kippy

tom1ie wrote: »

Are we really that far off these measures?
Especially if the UK bring in 14 day quarantine.

Yes, we are miles off these measures - if it was that easy to do it should have been done last February when we had a chance.

tom1ie

kippy wrote: »

Because you simply cannot ignore that fact that Northern Ireland is a massive glaring issue.
Nor can you ignore all of the points brough up about the time it would take to implement all of the freight based issues.
Not can you ignore the fact that it would take a significant amount of time to spin up Mandatory quarentine and testing at the travellers expense.

All in the context of a vacine rollout that is going to ensure the higher risk groups will be vacinated in the next few months.

Apologies I didn’t see your second post. My bad.

mcburns07

Neagra wrote: »

i think many young and healthy people have had their lives turned upside down the last year and the pressure got to them and before Christmas many decided to house party.
and from that we got this latest wave

since this virus arrived last year and restrictions on peoples movement and personal freedoms were deemed necessary it was always the case if people in their teens, 20s, 30s were not willing to put their lives on hold permanently for the older generations then this virus would explode regardless of any restrictions
that still remains the same -

the longer the year goes on with any restrictions in place the more chance of serious social unrest.
and that goes for across all of europe.

Oh ya blame all of us young people :pac:

Get a grip.

kippy

colmtheperson wrote: »

The UK look set to announce something similar, if the UK (including NI) all have 14 day managed isolation then the open border with the North isn't an issue

Of course its an issue.

I'd add, the UK are way too late trying to do this too - way way too late and won't have anything meaning ful in place for months at which time........

caveat emptor

kippy wrote: »

How do you think countries with Zero covid got to that point in the first instane?
Yes, it's far too late. Should have been done last February when things were somewhat manageable and the risks to the populace were far higher.
This is the last stict set of restrictions we will have.

You are on stage 4 so. What happens at stage 5?

https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/1237393224714481667?s=20

Happydays2020

Irish Steve wrote: »

I really have to wonder at the crass ignorance and stupidity of so many people calling for a zero covid strategy here. It's not possible without a significant and lengthy process to fundamentally change the way that a large quantity of goods arrive into this country. As things are now, we have a long established distribution chain that is highly dependent on Ro-Ro vehicles bringing all manner of goods into Ireland from across Europe, and changing that to mirror the system that allowed Australia and New Zealand to go for zero covid would require a massive investment in addititonal lorry tractor units based here in Ireland, a massive investment in additional Lift on Lift off container handling cranes at a number of ports, and the purchase of additional ships capable of carrying LiLo containers between the UK, Europe and Ireland, and putting that sort of infrastructure into place will not happen quickly, regardless of how much people might want it to.

Changing RoRo to unaccompanied trailers is also not going to happen any time soon, the process of remote loading and unloading is a LOT slower, and requires massive holding space at the port for the trailers, and both of those issues would mean massive disruption to existing ferry schedules, and congestion at berths due to extended turn round times, the end result being shortages of all manner of items due to massive delays at the ports.

There is also the problem of how we deal with cross border traffic from the North, that has originated in UK or Europe, 1 driver bringing in Covid WILL lead to clusters in all manner of places, unless a fast and effective test can be found that works reliably and quickly, so that ALL drivers can be tested either before boarding, or on arrival on the island.

Changes of this level and nature will not be easy, or quick, and in the meantime, there will be massive disruption to all manner of services, food being the most critical. Effectively, due to the very different ways that things happen here, Zero Covid is a non starter, unless rationing of many items is an acceptable by product. I suspect it won't be.

The ZC people need to level with people about what they are proposing. A normal media would ask the right questions.

tom1ie

kippy wrote: »

Yes, we are miles off these measures - if it was that easy to do it should have been done last February when we had a chance.

If the uk bring in mandatory quarantine, that will automatically mean we pose a risk to them as we are allowing people in without enforced mandatory quarantine.
With regard to finding places to make people quarantine, there is a whole hospitality industry consisting of hotels crying out for people who have to pay and stay and quarantine for 2 weeks.
Freight can be dealt with by leaving trailers at ports, shunting trailers onto ferry’s at ports, the opposite at the receiving port and then resident drivers picking up the trailers at Irish ports.
This is happening in other countries now.

kippy

tom1ie wrote: »

If the uk bring in mandatory quarantine, that will automatically mean we pose a risk to them as we are allowing people in without enforced mandatory quarantine.
With regard to finding places to make people quarantine, there is a whole hospitality industry consisting of hotels crying out for people who have to pay and stay and quarantine for 2 weeks.
Freight can be dealt with by leaving trailers at ports, shunting trailers onto ferry’s at ports, the opposite at the receiving port and then resident drivers picking up the trailers at Irish ports.
This is happening in other countries now.

All far too little, far far too late.
And nowhere as simple or effective at this point in time as it would have been this time last year.
I am shocked that people are advocating for it in the current climate.

That's my opinion. I won't be moved on it.

kippy

caveat emptor wrote: »

You are on stage 4 so. What happens at stage 5?

https://twitter.com/NorthmanTrader/status/1237393224714481667?s=20

It's not as black and white as some would think.

What will happen as the year goes on is LESS adherence to regulations, unless they are policed more (which wont happen).
This will happen as the risk to older relatives and family/friends subsides greatly if they are vacinated, as more people get the disease.

tom1ie

kippy wrote: »

All far too little, far far too late.
And nowhere as simple or effective at this point in time as it would have been this time last year.
I am shocked that people are advocating for it in the current climate.

That's my opinion. I won't be moved on it.

Fair enough. I’ve a strong opinion myself. I think we both agree that these lockdowns have to end at some stage because people (myself included) are getting sick of this.

washman3

castletownman wrote: »

I think they are from a certain ethnicity immune from any form of criticism or negative publicity in the media

I wonder are they magically immune from covid though.

A funeral in Rathkeale last week 'attracted' a crowd of 150 according to Gardai, who are 'investigating' the incident.

Locals there (the decent ones) reckon this number was greatly overblown and the true figure was nearer 500. The outstanding feature was the amount of 'yellow number plates' and transit vans.
A mere mention of this on the Limerick Forum will very likely lead to an immediate warning or ban which proves that a certain section of society are beyond accountability even during a National Emergency/Global Pandemic.

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

Fair enough. I’ve a strong opinion myself. I think we both agree that these lockdowns have to end at some stage because people (myself included) are getting sick of this.

They will end, slowly but surely - once those over 65 are vaccinated, and the process is well underway to vaccinate everyone else.

The light at the end of the tunnel is coming sharply into focus.

Loafing Oaf

washman3 wrote: »

A funeral in Rathkeale last week 'attracted' a crowd of 150 according to Gardai, who are 'investigating' the incident.

Locals there (the decent ones) reckon this number was greatly overblown and the true figure was nearer 500.

Do you mean 'underblown'?:P

tom1ie

tom1ie wrote: »

If the uk bring in mandatory quarantine, that will automatically mean we pose a risk to them as we are allowing people in without enforced mandatory quarantine.
With regard to finding places to make people quarantine, there is a whole hospitality industry consisting of hotels crying out for people who have to pay and stay and quarantine for 2 weeks.
Freight can be dealt with by leaving trailers at ports, shunting trailers onto ferry’s at ports, the opposite at the receiving port and then resident drivers picking up the trailers at Irish ports.
This is happening in other countries now.

That actually can’t happen with RORO freight. We don’t have enough trucks or drivers this side of the Irish Sea, we don’t have the space, and it would slow things down so much that freight forwarders would not be bothered with the hassle of organising Ireland deliveries. Our shelves would be bare in no time.

The best we can do for freight is testing (rapid testing at that) which would mean that cases leak through, and even if we as a nation had hit zero Covid after months of lockdown and border quarantine we would have to keep locking down as the authorities trace infections that have leaked through the border. Australia still experiences imports of virus even though theoretically every possible source of virus is quarantined for 14 days. We would have nowhere near that level of control, and so our lockdowns would be many times what they have to do

(And the UK have announced their plans and it is only mandatory quarantine for those from high risk countries. Everyone else heads home)

JP Liz V1

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1354515802775547906

kippy

tom1ie wrote: »

Fair enough. I’ve a strong opinion myself. I think we both agree that these lockdowns have to end at some stage because people (myself included) are getting sick of this.

The time to end the "lockdowns" was back before the actually started.
In February. But selling that idea to the population when the alternative wasn't fully in peoples minds or thinking would have been a very difficult sell. (Hard to believe)
The rolling restrictions will end. They have been incredibilly difficult on everyone, certain cohorts suffering more than others but everyone haveing some massive level of disruption to their lives.
People have fallen out within their own families, sufferent physical and mental health issues, suffered job losses, died and been incredibilly sick.
We have to try see the positive side to it. There will almost always be someone worse off than the situation you find yourself in.
I actually couldnt put into words here my thoughts on the whole thing, people would find fault with it no doubt.
Lets hope things improve over the coming months.

ginoginelli

tom1ie wrote: »

If the uk bring in mandatory quarantine, that will automatically mean we pose a risk to them as we are allowing people in without enforced mandatory quarantine.
With regard to finding places to make people quarantine, there is a whole hospitality industry consisting of hotels crying out for people who have to pay and stay and quarantine for 2 weeks.
Freight can be dealt with by leaving trailers at ports, shunting trailers onto ferry’s at ports, the opposite at the receiving port and then resident drivers picking up the trailers at Irish ports.
This is happening in other countries now.

Reading between the lines it looks like we are going to follow the uk approach. I see these initial 'quarantine light' measure we brought in as a precursor to a much more robust implementation.

We will likely extend our list of countries that require the mandatory quaranting and eventually have something like the eu colour coded travel system, where x amount per 100,000 is red, and requires full hotel quaratining, and green countries may simply need 2 pcr tests.

caveat emptor

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1354515802775547906

Like wtf. What is the point of it all, seriously. 5km but rick up with the 2.0 version unhindered.

AdamD

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Fear = obedience to restrictions.

The Irish populace are by and large idiots. If they hear we have good progress there will be crowds on the streets. Dublin's streets are busier now than 2 weeks ago. Same restrictions. Less people making the effort to stay home.

This is a pathetic post and opinon to have of your neighbours and friends. Utterly pathetic.

caveat emptor

AdamD wrote: »

This is a pathetic post and opinon to have of your neighbours and friends. Utterly pathetic.

Harsh but true......If you look closely you can spot the Ryanair actor.
https://twitter.com/Elaine_Loughlin/status/1354187845032927237?s=20

Malcomex

Eod100 wrote: »

Hotel quarantine for travellers from high risk countries. Presume they're saying British cause visas suspended for anyone who's not British? Given it's Patel she might want to keep this permanently..

https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1354442141615992834

That's just to block travel from those places

They're not actually planning to quarantine many

wakka12

Imagine seeing this headline in a time machine from February a year ago..still just unbelievable
https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1354527127983583232

The_Brood

AdamD wrote: »

This is a pathetic post and opinon to have of your neighbours and friends. Utterly pathetic.

Does the truth bother you? The stupidity shown by vast swafts of the public are unforgivable and unredeemable. There has been lots of misery already, but whatever further misery is to follow, we collectively deserve it.

mcburns07

The_Brood wrote: »

Does the truth bother you? The stupidity shown by vast swafts of the public are unforgivable and unredeemable. There has been lots of misery already, but whatever fuether misery is to follow, we collectively deserve it.

The irony is delicious, silly billy.