Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

caveat emptor

The tennis back on in Australia looks great. I know we can't do something similar because it's risky or something. 1000 people dead and 100,000 cases in January was obviously deemed less risky.

https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1355652898416373762?s=20

CrabRevolution

I think that story has been greatly embellished at best. The AED on the wall at your local GAA club has software to detect heart issues and provide shocks, but the best that trained medical staff in a fully equipped A&E department could do is say that he "probably" was having a heart attack and that they could do nothing about it?..

Wolf359f

caveat emptor wrote: »

The tennis back on in Australia looks great. I know we can't do something similar because it's risky or something. 1000 people dead and 100,000 cases in January was obviously deemed less risky.

https://twitter.com/RichardBurgon/status/1355652898416373762?s=20

You know fully well why we can't, you just like to spew it to get a response.
There's a dedicated thread for zero covid, I'm sure you'll get a better response there.

But very generous for Australia to allow players in from around the world while 10's of thousands of their own citizens are stranded abroad without a means (**** ton of money) to get home.

Away With The Fairies

Wolf359f wrote: »

You know fully well why we can't, you just like to spew it to get a response.
There's a dedicated thread for zero covid, I'm sure you'll get a better response there.

But very generous for Australia to allow players in from around the world while 10's of thousands of their own citizens are stranded abroad without a means (**** ton of money) to get home.

Of we can do zero covid. It needs an all Ireland approach. But they would rather put politics before people's health. Fücking clowns.

Wolf359f

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Of we can do zero covid. It needs an all Ireland approach. But they would rather put politics before people's health. Fücking clowns.

Oh come on ffs, not his **** again. You think the DUP will allow any restrictions on them coming back from mainland UK? You think we can replace truck drivers with robots to deliver almost all our food and goods?
Zero covid is reducing the chance of covid entering Ireland to Zero (not close to it, it has to be zero risk). Allowing a truck driver here and there to come in won't work. It's a fantasy.

caveat emptor

Wolf359f wrote: »

You know fully well why we can't, you just like to spew it to get a response.
There's a dedicated thread for zero covid, I'm sure you'll get a better response there.

But very generous for Australia to allow players in from around the world while 10's of thousands of their own citizens are stranded abroad without a means (**** ton of money) to get home.

That's very unparliamentary language there. I spew? What are you on about. Can't you not be happy for all the sports fans enjoying the tennis in person? Also very negative and unimaginative frankly to just keep saying. "can't, can't, can't"

Australia gave ample warning to it's citizens for a very long time that mandatory hotel quarantine would be implemented. If they are deciding not to help stranded citizens abroad then that's terrible.

The department of foreign affairs is great at that here. They'll come to the rescue of these guys I'm sure.

https://twitter.com/deshocks/status/1355534459899174915?s=20

Polar101

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I think that story has been greatly embellished at best. The AED on the wall at your local GAA club has software to detect heart issues and provide shocks, but the best that trained medical staff in a fully equipped A&E department could do is say that he "probably" was having a heart attack and that they could do nothing about it?..

I don't know about this particular case, but I do remember reading a story how someone having a heart attack died in the ambulance on the way from Waterford to Cork, because it happened "out of hours".

So it's not ideal if you have a hospital full of Covid patients, in addition to the limited normal services.

Wolf359f

caveat emptor wrote: »

That's very unparliamentary language there. I spew? What are you on about. Can't you not be happy for all the sports fans enjoying the tennis in person? Also very negative and unimaginative frankly to just keep saying. "can't, can't, can't"

Australia gave ample warning to it's citizens for a very long time that mandatory hotel quarantine would be implemented. If they are deciding not to help stranded citizens abroad then that's terrible.

The department of foreign affairs is great at that here. They'll come to the rescue of these guys I'm sure.

https://twitter.com/deshocks/status/1355534459899174915?s=20

You just post to get a reaction and not a discussion.
There's plenty of Australians abroad when they heard the news that would have been in education, working under contracts and various other reasons why they couldn't uproot and head home at the drop of a hat.
Looks like they gave then 24hrs notice: https://www.pm.gov.au/media/border-restrictions
Then 9 days later it was the quarantine:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-27/forced-coronavirus-quarantine-for-people-returning-to-australia/12095898
In your eyes, that's ample time?

Deeper Blue

Zero Covid is not a runner, this has been established at least a thousand times on here yet many continue to ignore that and peddle the same nonsense over and over

Qwertyminger

El Sueño wrote: »

Zero Covid is not a runner, this has been established at least a thousand times on here yet many continue to ignore that and peddle the same nonsense over and over

Yes, let us suppress even the idea of it being discussed or considered.

Actually no let's thrash it out. What do you understand a "zero covid strategy" to mean?

Polar101

"Forced" quarantine seems to work pretty well in Finland - if they discover a "super-spreader" event, anyone who is a close contact or has been at the premises at the time, is ordered to self-isolate for 14 days. So far they've managed to keep schools and pubs open (most of the time), and have had only 45k cases to date, and currently just 120 cases in hospitals. There are restrictions, but they're decided locally based on a 3-tier system. Their testing and tracing capability is similar to Ireland, so maybe something similar could have worked here too.

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/one_evening_one_bar_80_infections_1000_quarantined/11760826

Widdensushi

Qwertyminger wrote: »

Yes, let us suppress even the idea of it being discussed or considered.

Actually no let's thrash it out. What do you understand a "zero covid strategy" to mean?

If you are so new read back on older threads, it's been thrashed to death

caveat emptor

El Sueño wrote: »

Zero Covid is not a runner, this has been established at least a thousand times on here yet many continue to ignore that

My apologies I forgot we are not allowed to discuss strategies other than living with the virus, a.k.a some people dying with the virus and lots and lots of sick people with the virus.

I know some Australians can't afford the ticket or quarantine back then again most people in this country couldn't afford a 2 week hotel stay.

Like the Irish skiers in Austria. If you are travelling in the midst of a global pandemic you are asking for issues. Germany has just stopped flights from Ireland.

Long covid is coming down the tracks now. Given our massive hospitalisation numbers.

• UK data 50000 admitted to hospital.
• 1in 10 of were !CU, 90% were just hospitalised.
• Within a few months 1 in 3 were readmitted and 1 in 8 died

https://twitter.com/Dr2NisreenAlwan/status/1355460122529689602?s=20

Participants: 47,780 individuals (mean age 65 years, 55% male) in hospital with COVID-19 and
discharged alive by 31 August 2020, matched to controls on demographic and clinical characteristics.
Outcome measures: Rates of hospital readmission, all-cause mortality, and diagnoses of respiratory, cardiovascular, metabolic, kidney and liver diseases until 30 September 2020.
Results: Mean follow-up time was 140 days for COVID-19 cases and 153 days for controls. 766 (95% confidence interval: 753 to 779) readmissions and 320 (312 to 328) deaths per 1,000 person- years were observed in COVID-19 cases, 3.5 (3.4 to 3.6) and 7.7 (7.2 to 8.3) times greater, respectively, than in controls. Rates of respiratory, diabetes and cardiovascular events were also significantly elevated in COVID-19 cases, at 770 (758 to 783), 127 (122 to 132) and 126 (121 to 131) events per 1,000 person-years, respectively. RRs were greater for individuals aged <70 than ≥70 years, and in ethnic minority groups than the White population, with the biggest differences observed for respiratory disease: 10.5 [9.7 to 11.4] for <70 years versus 4.6 [4.3 to 4.8] for ≥70 years, and 11.4 (9.8 to 13.3) for Non-White versus 5.2 (5.0 to 5.5) for White.
Conclusions: Individuals discharged from hospital following COVID-19 face elevated rates of multi- organ dysfunction compared with background levels, and the increase in risk is neither confined to the elderly nor uniform across ethnicities. The diagnosis, treatment and prevention of PCS require integrated rather than organ- or disease-specific approaches. Urgent research is required to establish risk factors for PCS.

Wolf359f

caveat emptor wrote: »

My apologies I forgot we are not allowed to discuss strategies other than living with the virus, a.k.a some people dying with the virus and lots and lots of sick people with the virus.

I know some Australians can't afford the ticket or quarantine back then again most people in this country couldn't afford a 2 week hotel stay.

Like the Irish skiers in Austria. If you are travelling in the midst of a global pandemic you are asking for issues. Germany has just stopped flights from Ireland.

Long covid is coming down the tracks now. Given our massive hospitalisation numbers.

• UK data 50000 admitted to hospital.
• 1in 10 of were !CU, 90% were just hospitalised.
• Within a few months 1 in 3 were readmitted and 1 in 8 died

https://twitter.com/Dr2NisreenAlwan/status/1355460122529689602?s=20

There's actually a zero covid thread, it's best to discuss zero covid there. You will get lots of bites.

If we we're stopped from leaving the country, then that brings up human rights violations (kinda like the ones Australia have encountered)

You may want to study the UK data more carefully, it doesn't translate 1:1 with Irish data.

caveat emptor

Wolf359f wrote: »

There's actually a zero covid thread, it's best to discuss zero covid there. You will get lots of bites.

If we we're stopped from leaving the country, then that brings up human rights violations (kinda like the ones Australia have encountered)

You may want to study the UK data more carefully, it doesn't translate 1:1 with Irish data.

Sorry are you a mod? I believe I posted a video of the Australian open which I believe to be the largest gathering of fans for a sporting event in the west in the past year. I thought it was interesting, on topic and worthy of posting. If you disagree, sorry about you.

That was only possible due to mandatory hotel quarantine. You start going on about robots.

Has nobody told Germany that they'll need robots for their freight?

Germany will restrict travel starting Saturday from five countries with coronavirus mutations — Brazil, South Africa, the U.K., Ireland and Portugal.

Rail, bus, ship or air carriers will be prohibited from carrying passengers from countries with new variants of the coronavirus until February 17, the government decided today. The five countries are currently on a list of so-called "virus variant areas" although the list could grow in the coming weeks.

There are exemptions for German residents, transit travel and freight transport

.

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-halts-travel-from-uk-portugal-and-ireland/

josip

spookwoman wrote: »

Just a visual rep of the ICU beds available tonight in acute hospitals using latest HSE operations report numbers. Doesn't look good.

Many of those hospitals showing 0 available would only have 3, 4 or 5 ICU beds available to start with.

https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/cspd/ncps/critical-care/critical-care-capacity-planning/national-adult-critical-care-capacity-census-2019-report.pdf

Wolf359f

caveat emptor wrote: »

Sorry are you a mod? I believe I posted a video of the Australian open which I believe to be the largest gathering of fans for a sporting event in the west in the past year. I thought it was interesting, on topic and worthy of posting. If you disagree, sorry about you.

That was only possible due to mandatory hotel quarantine. You start going on about robots.

Has nobody told Germany that they'll need robots for their freight?

.

https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-halts-travel-from-uk-portugal-and-ireland/

No it's not the largest gathering of fans for a sporting event in the west (is Australia even classed as the west?)

That German article refers to passengers, with an exemption for freight. Germany is not trying for zero covid, so freight exemptions is a moot point.

caveat emptor

Wolf359f wrote: »

No it's not the largest gathering of fans for a sporting event in the west (is Australia even classed as the west?)

That German article refers to passengers, with an exemption for freight. Germany is not trying for zero covid, so freight exemptions is a moot point.

Ah I see where we may have crossed wires. I'm saying mandatory hotel quarantine could be implemented here. I don't actually know what zerocovid means at this stage. It certainly means different things to different people.

When mentioned people react by saying "are you trying to starve the island" or "we are trying to get numbers to as low as possible and maybe zero". Not sure your interpretation on that.

The freight issue is important. I think France was the only country to ban that when UK variant emerged. AFAIK truck drivers need an antigen test. Why can't we do that?

I would think if we brought in MHQ and allowed freight we'd certainly be a much better situation. Especially if truck drivers were isolated as much as possible from wider community. I don't bump into too many continental truck drivers but I'm sure some do in their day to day. That risk could be mitigated.

People going skiing in Austria deserve the fine IMO. 2000 euro will put some people back. I'd doubt they'll be stranded and need the department of foreign affairs to get them home.

I do think Australia is part of the west but if you don't that's fine. We are all entitled to an opinion.

mandrake04

Wolf359f wrote: »

You know fully well why we can't, you just like to spew it to get a response.
There's a dedicated thread for zero covid, I'm sure you'll get a better response there.

But very generous for Australia to allow players in from around the world while 10's of thousands of their own citizens are stranded abroad without a means (**** ton of money) to get home.

From an Australian perspective I don't see any issue with that, the Tennis players are not part of the quarantine quota its separate deal that was nutted out between TA (Tennis Australia) and ITF using charter planes and their own quarantine hotels. This was approved by Victorian government and the Federal government months ago. It has no real impact on returning citizens unless they are really good at tennis.


There's only limited flights into Australia, if the cost is extortionate its not the governments fault their primary objective is to protect the quality of life of the other 25million citizens. If someone is facing hardship then they should be helped, but they will know full well that it will have to be paid back within 6 months.

The prime minister did warn last year this pandemic was going last probably 2 years so had warned Australians to return, they had enough time also anyone leaving with an exemption after 29th Sep did so with the warning that they were going get hit with travel costs.

In all most Australians are very happy with the situation, a lot don't agree with tennis players because that's just seen as an added risk.. but they are happy to live a normal day to day life and they don't really want returning travelers putting that at risk even if they are citizens.

JCX BXC

Wouldn't post here much, this thread can be a head wreak!

I'm not a fan of these current restrictions and I deplore the current messages from the government. I believe the effect on mental health and finance is being horrifically underestimated or at least the effects of these effects underestimated.

However, the news has hit home this evening with a 21 year old cousin being hospitalised very ill with COVID. Very young age, no underlying conditions, it shows how it can effect all of us.

A nasty time, a nasty disease and a period we all yearn to forget. I'm quite torn this evening, on one hand, my ill family member has shocked me and hit close to home, but to be perfectly honest I've seen more of my friends become mentally ill and basically reduced to simply surviving. It's a tough mix, but we've not hit the correct combination of restrictions and actually letting people live with a quality of life. Not even close.

Things need to change. My 2 cents anyway.

Wolf359f

mandrake04 wrote: »

From an Australian perspective I don't see any issue with that, the Tennis players are not part of the quarantine quota its separate deal that was nutted out between TA (Tennis Australia) and ITF using charter planes and their own quarantine hotels. This was approved by Victorian government and the Federal government months ago. It has no real impact on returning citizens unless they are really good at tennis.


There's only limited flights into Australia, if the cost is extortionate its not the governments fault their primary objective is to protect the quality of life of the other 25million citizens. If someone is facing hardship then they should be helped, but they will know full well that it will have to be paid back within 6 months.

The prime minister did warn last year this pandemic was going last probably 2 years so had warned Australians to return, they had enough time also anyone leaving with an exemption after 29th Sep did so with the warning that they were going get hit with travel costs.

In all most Australians are very happy with the situation, a lot don't agree with tennis players because that's just seen as an added risk.. but they are happy to live a normal day to day life and they don't really want returning travelers putting that at risk even if they are citizens.

What's the limiting factor in the number of flights returning to Australia?
If it's hotels or policing, adding in tennis players will hinder Australian national returning.

Why do you mention Sept 29? Mandatory quarantine was introduced last March, not September. Or are you talking about Australians leaving Asutralia? Because I was talking about Australians abroad who can't get home and didn't leave Australia after the pandemic.

caveat emptor

You mentioned freight. I mentioned France requiring antigen tests to reduce that risk (not eliminate it)
Australia and NZ require a bit more than a PCR test. They have mandatory hotel quarantine and multiple PCR tests before being allowed to leave.

We could have that considering most hotels are virtually empty and have been for most of the year.

Confounding the two is disingenuous. Also what sporting event is larger than the tennis? You haven't provided any link to something that was bigger? 400,000 people over 14 days is fairly substantial. Open to correction.

“It’ll mean that over the 14 days, we will have up to 390,000 people here at Melbourne Park and that’s about 50% of the average over the last three years,” he told reporters at the venue for the tournament.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-tennis-ausopen/australian-open-to-be-allowed-30000-fans-a-day-idUSKBN29Z06B

mandrake04

Wolf359f wrote: »

What's the limiting factor in the number of flights returning to Australia?
If it's hotels or policing, adding in tennis players will hinder Australian national returning.

It’s the cap, previously before Xmas the cap was at 6000 per week but due to public opinion mainly in NSW, QLD due to the new variant etc it was reduced to 1505 per week until it’s reviewed on 15th Feb. This is overseen by the Federal government.

The government did speak up on this matter and said the 1200 tennis people were not included in that weeks 1505, the Victorian government overseen the Tournament that was organised by TA & ITF and give assurances to the Federal government that it would be safe. Sure some people are angry that Australians are stranded overseas but far more are angry that the tournament has added risk they would rather see them not coming period.

I’m not a huge fan of Tennis but I’m sure there will be plenty of people loving it, I think moving forward with as much normality is only way out of this. I wouldn’t really be worrying about what other countries are doing, people should simply be more concerned about themselves and how they going to improve their own situation.

Luckily where I live we had a very minimal lockdown (if you can call it that) back in April/May it wasn’t really that restrictive and it’s been varying degrees of normal since, compared to restrictions my folks in Ireland who have lost many months of normality that they won’t ever get back and even now there is no certainty that this year will be any better than last year.

December2012

My mother, in her 80s, got covid in October. Consequently, she then developed pneumonia, and various other infections. Due to the medications she was on, for the infections which she developed after Covid ravaged her body, she had a stroke. She had further infections. She died two days ago, 3 months after getting Covid (although she is covid negative). From about 2 months ago, she could no longer communicate by phone (due to her stroke and her getting delirium from all of the infections), so we were very restricted in talking to her (previously we spoke on the phone every day).

She was in her 80s yes, she lived in a nursing home yes, she had other health problems yes, BUT - she was (prior to lockdown) going out and about with her family, very able to live and manage her health conditions, and enjoyed her life in and out of the nursing home.

She was a mother, a grandmother, a friend, a neighbour.

I dont know why I'm posting this really. But I suppose just a reminder that old people, or people with preexisting conditions were not inevitably going to die. Their life still has value. And also, I suppose, to make the point that there will be people dying because of Covid, that will not be deemed covid deaths.

December2012

December2012 wrote: »

My mother, in her 80s, got covid in October. Consequently, she then developed pneumonia, and various other infections. Due to the medications she was on, for the infections which she developed after Covid ravaged her body, she had a stroke. She had further infections. She died two days ago, 3 months after getting Covid (although she is covid negative). From about 2 months ago, she could no longer communicate by phone (due to her stroke and her getting delirium from all of the infections), so we were very restricted in talking to her (previously we spoke on the phone every day).

She was in her 80s yes, she lived in a nursing home yes, she had other health problems yes, BUT - she was (prior to lockdown) going out and about with her family, very able to live and manage her health conditions, and enjoyed her life in and out of the nursing home.

She was a mother, a grandmother, a friend, a neighbour.

I dont know why I'm posting this really. But I suppose just a reminder that old people, or people with preexisting conditions were not inevitably going to die. Their life still has value. And also, I suppose, to make the point that there will be people dying because of Covid, that will not be deemed covid deaths.

Im sorry to hear that,i hope yous will be ok.


Its been a horrible feature of covid,the callousness of people willing to dismiss deaths of otherwise healthy people out of hand,because they were old.......ive certainly lost a lot of respect for people i know over it

caveat emptor

Australia is offering to host the lions tour vs South Africa. I doubt many fans would be able to travel but probably enough already there to make it commercially viable. Of course the fact it could go ahead at all is a good thing for rugby fans.
https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1355686176598986769?s=20

Icantthinkof1

Polar101 wrote: »

I don't know about this particular case, but I do remember reading a story how someone having a heart attack died in the ambulance on the way from Waterford to Cork, because it happened "out of hours"

CUH is the centre of excellence for cardiac care which could be why they would be transferred/ advised to go there from neighbouring Counties
I would imagine if it were an emergency they should have be treated in their own counties hospital and perhaps then transferred if/ when stable which should have been the case for that poor wo/man

PmMeUrDogs

December2012 wrote: »

My mother, in her 80s, got covid in October.

I dont know why I'm posting this really. But I suppose just a reminder that old people, or people with preexisting conditions were not inevitably going to die. Their life still has value. And also, I suppose, to make the point that there will be people dying because of Covid, that will not be deemed covid deaths.

I'm so, so sorry for your loss. You and yours are in my thoughts.

DraftDodger

El Sueño wrote: »

Zero Covid is not a runner, this has been established at least a thousand times on here yet many continue to ignore that and peddle the same nonsense over and over

It hasn't been explained by a single poster even once over the course of the thread why it wont work so go ahead have a shot.

AdamD

DraftDodger wrote: »

It hasn't been explained by a single poster even once over the course of the thread why it wont work so go ahead have a shot.

It has but you're too wilfully ignorant to understand.