Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

podgeandrodge

TonyMaloney wrote: »

I live in a world where you don't have to act on every mad idea an elderly relative might have.

What planet do you live on?

Look, we can agree to differ. My point is that you continually say it's up to you to enable an elderly relative carry out their wishes and had your elderly relative been 100 and asked to go, you would have prevented her on the basis that she couldn't do it without your help and on the basis that you believed it was foolhardy.

My point is that this decision was for the 100 year old, assuming that they had the capacity to make that decision, and that you should book the flights for them if that's what they want to do. It's not for you to prevent them. That's my argument. Otherwise, at what age do we forcefully take away responsbility and capability for decisions from others.

jojofizzio

spookwoman wrote: »

Nothing to say he got covid in Barbados.

Is he still in Barbados(or is he back in the UK)?

TonyMaloney

ZX7R wrote: »

Teir 2 at the time of his travel vulnerable could travel and could also travel with there support bubble, so not only were they acting within the rules they acted within the spirit as you say.

Huh?

He was supposed to be avoiding all non essential travel. A holiday in Barbados doesn't exactly fall into the essential category.

spookwoman

jojofizzio wrote: »

Is he still in Barbados(or is he back in the UK)?

In UK

TonyMaloney

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Look, we can agree to differ. My point is that you continually say it's up to you to enable an elderly relative carry out their wishes and had your elderly relative been 100 and asked to go, you would have prevented her on the basis that she couldn't do it without your help and on the basis that you believed it was foolhardy.

My point is that this decision was for the 100 year old, assuming that they had the capacity to make that decision, and that you should book the flights for them if that's what they want to do. It's not for you to prevent them. That's my argument. Otherwise, at what age do we forcefully take away responsbility and capability for decisions from others.

What?

I wouldn't help anybody book a holiday right now. Nobody should be going on holiday.

You seem to think that there's some magic age where a person's decisions become unquestionable. If my 30 year old brother wanted to borrow a few quid to go on holiday, I'd call him a twat and tell him to **** off.

podgeandrodge

TonyMaloney wrote: »

What?

I wouldn't help anybody book a holiday right now. Nobody should be going on holiday.

You seem to think that there's some magic age where a person's decisions become unquestionable. If my 30 year old brother wanted to borrow a few quid to go on holiday, I'd call him a twat and tell him to **** off.

We're talking about a time when it was in level 2 and allowed is my understanding.

spookwoman

runawaybishop wrote: »

It's reckless. Every seems to think their reason is valid.

Again where does it say he got it in Barbardos. He could have gotten it down at the local chippy for all we know.

MerlinSouthDub

TonyMaloney wrote: »

Huh?

He was supposed to be avoiding all non essential travel. A holiday in Barbados doesn't exactly fall into the essential category.

The chance of dying over the next 12 months when you are aged 100 is about 35%. Captain Tom might have decided that he may as well go on holidays now as he may never get the chance again. A rationale choice, perhaps.

runawaybishop

spookwoman wrote: »

Again where does it say he got it in Barbardos. He could have gotten it down at the local chippy for all we know.

And being down the chippy ain't reckless? Our hospitals (and theirs) are rammed with people, we should all be minimising risk.

blackcard

Time to move on. People going to disagree

TonyMaloney

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

The chance of dying over the next 12 months when you are aged 100 is about 35%. Captain Tom might have decided that he may as well go on holidays now as he may never get the chance again. A rationale choice, perhaps.

Outside a pandemic, it makes a lot of sense.

What were the odds on him dying in the weeks he had to wait before getting vaccinated?
I'm all for empowering the elderly. I'd love if my nan had some burning ambition she wanted to fulfill, but she can hang on a while until she's vaccinated.

Necro

Mod:

Can we move on please, everyone has made their point at this stage.

600,000 people in the UK got a COVID jab today according to the Guardian. Whatever about their pandemic response so far, that is pretty impressive

NeuralNetwork

Deleted User wrote: »

600,000 people in the UK got a COVID jab today according to the Guardian. Whatever about their pandemic response so far, that is pretty impressive

I wonder could we manage 49,000 a day which, would be proportionally the equivalent for 4.9 million population in Ireland.

If you think about it, and you're rolling at high speed, you can get that twice that many in and out of a big event like a major music festival or nearly twice that to a major Croke Park match. It's roughly a bit more than filling Parc Ui Choimh.

It's eminently doable if you consider you'd be doing it across maybe 20+ centres and possibly a lot more when you consider every chemist shop, GP surgery, maybe dentists etc could all be doing it.

Even just based on 2500 GPs in Ireland that's 19.6 COVID jabs a day per GP.

If you consider Dublin Airport can process 83,508 people on a busy day and that involves tickets, security checks etc. Then it's perfectly feasible to do that level of vaccination -

- we just need the vaccines to put in the arms!

You'd have the whole country done in about 3 months.

Larbre34

No question you could do 50,000 a day, every day, if you had the stocks.

Army medics, Garda paramedics, Coastguard, John's Ambulance, Order of Malta, Civil Defence - all have people either trained to administer IM injections or have first responder training to a level such that upskilling them to do it wouldn't be difficult.

50,000 is the equivalent of doing 6 jabs an hour (factor in clean down, break times etc), every hour of a 12 hour shift, for 695 personnel. Very doable.

NeuralNetwork

Well if you got it up to say 4000 vaccinators, which is very doable I think if you brought in nurses, doctors, dentists, pharmacists, paramedics, maybe even vets (if you can give an injection to an angry cat, you can do a simple vaccine!)

It's extremely doable and not all THAT much work per person.

FintanMcluskey

Larbre34 wrote: »

No question you could do 50,000 a day, every day, if you had the stocks.

Army medics, Garda paramedics, Coastguard, John's Ambulance, Order of Malta, Civil Defence - all have people either trained to administer IM injections or have first responder training to a level such that upskilling them to do it wouldn't be difficult.

50,000 is the equivalent of doing 6 jabs an hour (factor in clean down, break times etc), every hour of a 12 hour shift, for 695 personnel. Very doable.

Doubt that will happen.

Under the new deal, GPs and pharmacists will be paid €25 for administering each dose of the vaccine in their surgeries or in centres in their localities. An additional single €10 processing fee will be paid per patient. For a two-dose vaccine, such as that being produced by AstraZeneca, the total paid will be €60.

It’s rather lucrative the vaccination deal

NeuralNetwork

The GP deal does seem a tad generous.

Population
19-24 years : 331,208
25-64 years : 2,541,294
65 + years: 637,567

(I don't have figures for 18 year olds so let's say add 60,000)

3,570,069

Assume that say 70% get 2 shots.

2,499,048 = €149,942,880

and 30% get 1 shot

1,071,021 = €37,485,735

Administration cost is : €187,428,615

Say with 80% uptake: 149,942,892

Divide that by 2500 GPs : €59,977

I would assume a lot of other vaccinators will get paid less so that figure is probably lower.
Nurses, paramedics etc..

There's probably no point in arguing over it at this stage, but it's not cheap.

podgeandrodge

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

The GP deal does seem a tad generous.

Sort of agree. Ok, they need to be paid for their time etc. etc.

But if they could have stuck on some extra public health benefit to it, for example taking the blood pressure of all persons getting vaccinated, perhaps many people with high blood pressure that don't know, and that might never go to their doctor, would learn something new. All for a few seconds extra. That would make the cost worth a bit more.

podgeandrodge

According to Philip Nolan:

"Professor Philip Nolan says we may have to wait until over 70 per cent of the population is vaccinated until mass gatherings such as concerts and large sporting events can recommence.

The Government is aiming to have all adults vaccinated by September, with 147,700 first doses of the vaccine already administer in the State and 13,800 second doses accord to the Government's latest figures."

If I am reading right, Sept. for all adults, so presumably some point in the summer to reach the 70% no? Some return to some normality at that stage hopefully...

Kunta Kinte

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Doubt that will happen.



It’s rather lucrative the vaccination deal

And what do you deduce from that?

FintanMcluskey

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

The GP deal does seem a tad generous.

Population
19-24 years : 331,208
25-64 years : 2,541,294
65 + years: 637,567

(I don't have figures for 18 year olds so let's say add 60,000)

3,570,069

Assume that say 70% get 2 shots.

2,499,048 = €149,942,880

and 30% get 1 shot

1,071,021 = €37,485,735

Administration cost is : €187,428,615

Say with 80% uptake: 149,942,892

Divide that by 2500 GPs : €59,977

I would assume a lot of other vaccinators will get paid less so that figure is probably lower.
Nurses, paramedics etc..

There's probably no point in arguing over it at this stage, but it's not cheap.

Money for jam this saving lives craic

NeuralNetwork

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Money for jam this saving lives craic

It just shows though when you start scaling up these relatively small looking fees like €60 quids here, there and everywhere to a population wide exercise how the health budget here starts to explode.

In the overall scale of the cost of COVID to the economy though the vaccination programme is a relatively small amount, even if the fees are a bit steep.

D.Q

podgeandrodge wrote: »

According to Philip Nolan:

"Professor Philip Nolan says we may have to wait until over 70 per cent of the population is vaccinated until mass gatherings such as concerts and large sporting events can recommence.

The Government is aiming to have all adults vaccinated by September, with 147,700 first doses of the vaccine already administer in the State and 13,800 second doses accord to the Government's latest figures."

If I am reading right, Sept. for all adults, so presumably some point in the summer to reach the 70% no? Some return to some normality at that stage hopefully...

See you at electric picnic so

Kunta Kinte

D.Q wrote: »

See you at electric picnic so

Maybe in 2022 or 2023.

hotmail.com

Stephen Donnelly's tweet has received almost 6,000 thumbs up.

He is now a complete laughing stock.

Dr. Bre

hotmail.com wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly's tweet has received almost 6,000 thumbs up.

What was it ?

gctest50

Larbre34 wrote: »

............


or have first responder training to a level such that upskilling them to do it wouldn't be difficult. ...............

You'd want to be off your head to let an upskillllllled one-course-wonder near you






"
https://www.neurologylearningnetwork.com/articles/injection-induced-axillary-nerve-injury-after-drive-through-flu-shot


In this article, we present a case of an older man who reported pain for approximately 8 weeks after receiving an IM influenza injection at a drive-through flu clinic. The cause of his pain was diagnosed as injection-induced traumatic axillary nerve injury

There was notable atrophy of the left deltoid muscle, sensory loss on the lower half of the deltoid muscle, and he was unable to abduct his left arm.



https://www.neurologylearningnetwork.com/articles/injection-induced-axillary-nerve-injury-after-drive-through-flu-shot "

hotmail.com

Dr. Bre wrote: »

What was it ?

Story from the Sunday Independent today.

Widdensushi

hotmail.com wrote: »

Stephen Donnelly's tweet has received almost 6,000 thumbs up.

He is now a complete laughing stock.

I presume that is a small amount? What tweet? Sorry but not everyone does twitter.