Covid 19 Part XXXII-215,743 ROI (4,137 deaths)111,166 NI (2,036 deaths)(22/02)Read OP

Wolf359f

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

The GP deal does seem a tad generous.

Population
19-24 years : 331,208
25-64 years : 2,541,294
65 + years: 637,567

(I don't have figures for 18 year olds so let's say add 60,000)

3,570,069

Assume that say 70% get 2 shots.

2,499,048 = €149,942,880

and 30% get 1 shot

1,071,021 = €37,485,735

Administration cost is : €187,428,615

Say with 80% uptake: 149,942,892

Divide that by 2500 GPs : €59,977

I would assume a lot of other vaccinators will get paid less so that figure is probably lower.
Nurses, paramedics etc..

There's probably no point in arguing over it at this stage, but it's not cheap.

That's all based on GP's only vaccinating and not mass vaccination centers.
GP's will be crucial in working out which of their patients are most vulnerable/at risk, so I'd say that will take time. They will have to call and schedule appointments etc... It's not as easy as they will open their doors and people will walk in, like a mass vaccination center (which would also have a lot more resources/personnel)

gctest50

runawaybishop wrote: »

Doubt they are organising extra hospital care for him. Another bed taken up needlessly.

After his efforts raised £38.9 million for the NHS charities I'm sure they can spare a bed for the man


" Tom has always been active, even driving every day until he slipped and fractured his hip two years ago. The care and after-treatment he received then, and earlier through a cancer scare, left him eternally grateful to so many people in the NHS.

When the coronavirus pandemic struck, Tom wanted to give something back to the healthcare staff ....

The initial plan was to do 100 laps of his garden, at 50 meters a time, before his hundredth birthday. He hoped to raise £1,000 for NHS charities.

£38.9 million* later, Tom has inspired a whole nation, "

AlmightyCushion

Widdensushi wrote: »

I presume that is a small amount? What tweet? Sorry but not everyone does twitter.

He tweet from about 24 hours ago only has about 100 comments on it. Today's one has nearly 6,000 comments most of which are just a thumbs up emoji.

The thumbs up thing comes from a story in one of the papers today where the CMO sent Stephen Donnelly a text about the R number increasing to 1.3 and Donnelly text him back a thumbs up emoji.

Larbre34

gctest50 wrote: »

You'd want to be off your head to let an upskillllllled one-course-wonder near you






"
https://www.neurologylearningnetwork.com/articles/injection-induced-axillary-nerve-injury-after-drive-through-flu-shot


In this article, we present a case of an older man who reported pain for approximately 8 weeks after receiving an IM influenza injection at a drive-through flu clinic. The cause of his pain was diagnosed as injection-induced traumatic axillary nerve injury

There was notable atrophy of the left deltoid muscle, sensory loss on the lower half of the deltoid muscle, and he was unable to abduct his left arm.



https://www.neurologylearningnetwork.com/articles/injection-induced-axillary-nerve-injury-after-drive-through-flu-shot "

That could happen with a nurse with 40 years experience. I'm not talking about volunteers off the street, I'm talking about people already experienced in basic medical care and first aid.

A mate of my Brother's was in John's Ambulance for donkeys years, trained to a certain level. Unfortunately his daughter got cancer at age 8, and he was trained up by SJABs own doctors to be able to manage injections, line and port care, so he could care for her at home. Worked out fine.

bb1234567

Every nursing home resident in the entire UK has now been vaccinated(well offered, but presumably almost all accepted it). Some achievement!

Kunta Kinte

bb1234567 wrote: »

Every nursing home resident in the entire UK has now been vaccinated(well offered, but presumably almost all accepted it). Some achievement!

As they are all in nursing homes I doubt that they had much choice in whether they wanted the vaccinations or not.

Geuze

NeuralNetwork wrote: »

The GP deal does seem a tad generous.

UK is paying GBP 12.58 per dose, or approx 14 euro.

We are paying 25 + 25 + 10 admin for two doses = 60 total.

Paying double the UK rates was defended by Govt spokesperson!!!!!


We overspend on healthcare, and get poor value, this is yet another example of that.

Wolf359f

bb1234567 wrote: »

Every nursing home resident in the entire UK has now been vaccinated(well offered, but presumably almost all accepted it). Some achievement!

With ~9mil doses given, you would expect they have done all the nursing homes.
I wonder what % of nursing homes we're at. I know the explication was all should have been done, but there was a lot of outbreaks, so they had to delay.

Wolf359f

Geuze wrote: »

UK is paying GBP 12.58 per dose, or approx 14 euro.

We are paying 25 + 25 + 10 admin for two doses = 60 total.

Paying double the UK rates was defended by Govt spokesperson!!!!!


We overspend on healthcare, and get poor value, this is yet another example of that.

It's ok. if you feel it's far too generous, when your GP call's for your appointment, you can refuse to accept it. You will then save the state €60. Yay you.

Happydays2020

bb1234567 wrote: »

Every nursing home resident in the entire UK has now been vaccinated(well offered, but presumably almost all accepted it). Some achievement!

First and second dose?

Happydays2020

Geuze wrote: »

UK is paying GBP 12.58 per dose, or approx 14 euro.

We are paying 25 + 25 + 10 admin for two doses = 60 total.

Paying double the UK rates was defended by Govt spokesperson!!!!!


We overspend on healthcare, and get poor value, this is yet another example of that.

We have a different structure to the UK. If I understand it correctly we are also outsourcing the admin to the GPs- they will contact their patients, arrange the timing, need to have the PPE, deep cleaning, do the necessary records, pay the admin support and nurse, plus for their own time etc etc. And presumably will need to do this within the existing resources of their normal practice.

patnor1011

There is absolutely no way that restrictions will be lifted this year or even next year and life will return to what it was say 2019.
There will be some easing - very little actually and within individual states only as it seems. Stuff like international travel for holidays will not resume any time soon.

That is simply because it is impossible to vaccinate any meaningful number of people in the world in a year. Even here in the west it is proven difficult due to transport and storage issues of vaccine we choose to use. Things may move faster in third world countries as they stopped waiting for western variants due to the fact they cant afford them and are turning to much cheaper Chinese and Russian vaccines.

Our vaccines were supposed to be cheap too but that is not going to happen. Oxford who promised to donate rights to every vaccine manufacturer or pharma company interested in making vaccines did U turn and sold rights to their vaccine to Astra which never promised to offer patent or vaccine cheap.
We already see cracks appear where one country try to outbid another and secure vaccine at higher cost than what was time and again peddled by media that we will get them at manufacturing cost.

While it may seem understandable from our point of view like why would not our government pay bit more to save us sooner it only result in prolonging restrictions. Simply because while rich countries can afford to keep their population at home for some time poor countries do not have that luxury. Therefore while we may feel safe for a while because we got the vaccine virus will be circling pretty much unchecked in the most of the world population which cant afford expensive vaccine and there simply is not enough of the cheap one. Then we will be hit with one mutated strain after another.
We still do not have enough data to say which type of vaccine may offer the best benefits - it will take a bit more of time to see.

patnor1011

I would like to ask our resident factcheckers to check if these 2 sites are conspiracy theory sites because they published some disconcerting news which I do not want to link yet. I do not want to be called covid denier or tinfoil hat conspiracy nut.
Sites:
https://khn.org/
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/

One more please:
https://independentaustralia.net/

Malcomex

patnor1011 wrote: »

There is absolutely no way that restrictions will be lifted this year or even next year and life will return to what it was say 2019.
There will be some easing - very little actually and within individual states only as it seems. Stuff like international travel for holidays will not resume any time soon.

That is simply because it is impossible to vaccinate any meaningful number of people in the world in a year. Even here in the west it is proven difficult due to transport and storage issues of vaccine we choose to use. Things may move faster in third world countries as they stopped waiting for western variants due to the fact they cant afford them and are turning to much cheaper Chinese and Russian vaccines.

Our vaccines were supposed to be cheap too but that is not going to happen. Oxford who promised to donate rights to every vaccine manufacturer or pharma company interested in making vaccines did U turn and sold rights to their vaccine to Astra which never promised to offer patent or vaccine cheap.
We already see cracks appear where one country try to outbid another and secure vaccine at higher cost than what was time and again peddled by media that we will get them at manufacturing cost.

While it may seem understandable from our point of view like why would not our government pay bit more to save us sooner it only result in prolonging restrictions. Simply because while rich countries can afford to keep their population at home for some time poor countries do not have that luxury. Therefore while we may feel safe for a while because we got the vaccine virus will be circling pretty much unchecked in the most of the world population which cant afford expensive vaccine and there simply is not enough of the cheap one. Then we will be hit with one mutated strain after another.
We still do not have enough data to say which type of vaccine may offer the best benefits - it will take a bit more of time to see.

Opinion piece and highly speculative

Larbre34

patnor1011 wrote: »

I would like to ask our resident factcheckers to check if these 2 sites are conspiracy theory sites because they published some disconcerting news which I do not want to link yet. I do not want to be called covid denier or tinfoil hat conspiracy nut.
Sites:
https://khn.org/
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/

One more please:
https://independentaustralia.net/

Just read the names of the websites man.

Here's no conspiracy for you. My old friend's husband died on Thursday from cancer, aged 48, in Dublin. Covid didn't feature in any way.

Due to the amount of deaths currently, she has to wait until next Wednesday to hold his funeral, at 4pm.

When have you ever heard of a 7 day delay to bury someone in Ireland before?

pc7

I’m still laughing at the Stephen Donnelly tweet. Over 6,000 replies giving him back his thumbs up, most interaction he’s ever had. He’s the most inept and arrogant TD I can remember and that’s saying something.

is_that_so

Larbre34 wrote: »

Just read the names of the websites man.

Here's no conspiracy for you. My old friend's husband died on Thursday from cancer, aged 48, in Dublin. Covid didn't feature in any way.

Due to the amount of deaths currently, she has to wait until next Wednesday to hold his funeral, at 4pm.

When have you ever heard of a 7 day delay to bury someone in Ireland before?

It can happen if an autopsy is required and delayed.

is_that_so

patnor1011 wrote: »

I would like to ask our resident factcheckers to check if these 2 sites are conspiracy theory sites because they published some disconcerting news which I do not want to link yet. I do not want to be called covid denier or tinfoil hat conspiracy nut.
Sites:
https://khn.org/
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/

One more please:
https://independentaustralia.net/

Tabloid would be my word for them, often indicating a low bar on quality, very cursory factual content but padded with opinions, generalisations and a strong focus on clickbaiting.

Ted_YNWA

patnor1011 wrote: »

I would like to ask our resident factcheckers to check if these 2 sites are conspiracy theory sites because they published some disconcerting news which I do not want to link yet. I do not want to be called covid denier or tinfoil hat conspiracy nut.
Sites:
https://khn.org/
https://www.bignewsnetwork.com/

One more please:
https://independentaustralia.net/

Mod
If you have to ask others if your sources are genuine, surely that answers your own question.

Conspiracy Theories forum is there if you want to go down this line of discussion

stephenjmcd

Hadn't seen this posted here. First transfer of an ICU paitent with assistance of the Air Corp.

Well done to all involved, a massive step forward that this is now possible if needed.

https://twitter.com/IrishAirCorps/status/1355838560801325057?s=19

https://twitter.com/ACorps112/status/1355845905124093956?s=19

patnor1011

Malcomex wrote: »

Opinion piece and highly speculative

That is what we all do for about a year now. What is your opinion on topic of when and how life returns to normal and what constitutes normal for you.

wadacrack

Great news

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1356169635717111809

Malcomex

patnor1011 wrote: »

That is what we all do for about a year now. What is your opinion on topic of when and how life returns to normal and what constitutes normal for you.

Off the top of my head...

-Vaccines administered to c. 80%

- Economic and Social activity resumes shortly after

-Enhanced mask wearing retained for foreseeable in many environments

- Quarantine for visitors from new variant regions

- Unknown Unknowns into the future

AdamD

Wolf359f wrote: »

It's ok. if you feel it's far too generous, when your GP call's for your appointment, you can refuse to accept it. You will then save the state €60. Yay you.

Jesus the level of discourse has gone to the dogs. He can criticise the cost and still get the vaccine.

ZX7R

Malcomex wrote: »

Off the top of my head...

-Vaccines administered to c. 80%

- Economic and Social activity resumes shortly after

-Enhanced mask wearing retained for foreseeable in many environments

- Quarantine for visitors from new variant regions

- Unknown Unknowns into the future

Ireland may well go that way as you say.

Rumblings in Polish government are looking at vaccinate the elderly, medical and uniformed personnel and start to open up leisure and the rest of the economy in may and a return to there 3 tir level of risk.
Polish Medical counsel are not opposed, as a serious amount was infested in the hospital's system.
Medical counsel don't foresee a surge in hospital admissions outside the vaccination of medical, elderly and at risk.
My county has a 1000 free icu beds at the moment.
It will be interesting to see how things pan out across Europe.

stephenjmcd

wadacrack wrote: »

Great news

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1356169635717111809

Posted in the vaccine thread, this isn't a new announcement, don't know why they're bringing it up again.

See below from 8th January.

"And I am particularly pleased that 75 million doses of this order will already be available as of quarter two onwards."

Looks like they've just recommitted to delvierying some of the new order in Q2, they aren't "additional doses" per say

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_21_46

patnor1011

Malcomex wrote: »

Off the top of my head...

-Vaccines administered to c. 80%

Of just "us" or globally? If it is just "us" then it take many months due to supply squeeze and logistic problems so at bare minimum restrictions on travel must be firmly in place. I wonder if it will now be politically correct to turn around refugees from coming in.
It will be quite a challenge and quite hard to achieve 80% even here, certainly not this year due to vaccine pricing wars which already started. It reminds me mask situation where planes were changing destination for the highest bidder.
While this was sorted out quite fast with cheap cloth masks believe me mRNA vaccine production is not that easy to scale up.

Malcomex wrote: »

- Economic and Social activity resumes shortly after

With exception of for example tourism which was quite important contribution to our economy. Also a lot of people learned how to live without pubs and save money in return, a lot of them wont be heading back when and if they open.

Malcomex wrote: »

-Enhanced mask wearing retained for foreseeable in many environments

Which is one of the restrictions which will not be lift up. That cant be considered as returning back to normal as prolonged use has its own set of problems which we will have to learn to deal with.

Malcomex wrote: »

- Quarantine for visitors from new variant regions

When you discover "new variant" it is usually too late and that variant is in circulation for some time. No way to tell where it spread by the time it is "discovered".
Nobody will come or go. I do not know many people who can afford to go for a week holiday having to spend 2 weeks in quarantine upon arrival and another 2 when return.

Malcomex wrote: »

- Unknown Unknowns into the future

So no opinion about when this all ends. But if someone say they cant see it happen any time soon i.e. next 2 years at least that is in your view highly speculative opinion piece.

I will be glad to be proved wrong as I have enough of this insanity but the longer it goes the harder and more uncertain it looks. CDC just announced reccomendation to use 2 masks apparently one is not enough. Is it only me thinking that restrictions are just piling up and getting longer?

patnor1011

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Posted in the vaccine thread, this isn't a new announcement, don't know why they're bringing it up again.

See below from 8th January.

"And I am particularly pleased that 75 million doses of this order will already be available as of quarter two onwards."

Looks like they've just recommitted to delvierying some of the new order in Q2, they aren't "additional doses" per say

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/statement_21_46

EU needs 10x more just to achieve about 80% uptake. That means couple "Q's" and a lot of prayers that we will stop wasting doses due to logistical problems.

Malcomex

patnor1011 wrote: »

Of just "us" or globally? If it is just "us" then it take many months due to supply squeeze and logistic problems so at bare minimum restrictions on travel must be firmly in place. I wonder if it will now be politically correct to turn around refugees from coming in.
It will be quite a challenge and quite hard to achieve 80% even here, certainly not this year due to vaccine pricing wars which already started. It reminds me mask situation where planes were changing destination for the highest bidder.
While this was sorted out quite fast with cheap cloth masks believe me mRNA vaccine production is not that easy to scale up.


With exception of for example tourism which was quite important contribution to our economy. Also a lot of people learned how to live without pubs and save money in return, a lot of them wont be heading back when and if they open.


Which is one of the restrictions which will not be lift up. That cant be considered as returning back to normal as prolonged use has its own set of problems which we will have to learn to deal with.


When you discover "new variant" it is usually too late and that variant is in circulation for some time. No way to tell where it spread by the time it is "discovered".
Nobody will come or go. I do not know many people who can afford to go for a week holiday having to spend 2 weeks in quarantine upon arrival and another 2 when return.


So no opinion about when this all ends. But if someone say they cant see it happen any time soon i.e. next 2 years at least that is in your view highly speculative opinion piece.

I will be glad to be proved wrong as I have enough of this insanity but the longer it goes the harder and more uncertain it looks.

Good point on the new variant and being too late to Quarantine

Presume they'll be using test trace and isolate of the new variant in conjunction with quarantine of affected region?

patnor1011

Malcomex wrote: »

Good point on the new variant and being too late to Quarantine

Presume they'll be using test trace and isolate of the new variant in conjunction with quarantine of affected region?

One experience with test&trace I have is that a lot of people simply do not tell the truth. They opt to say they met with nobody as it is easier for them. Some of them genuinely do not remember others just lie.