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HSE confirms a number of vials of COVID19 vaccine have had to be dumped

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    #32
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    Mistakes shouldn't happen with such a precious resource

    It's unforgiveable

    Somebody should be held accountable and lose their job for this 'mistake'

    Then again it's Ireland so that will never happen

    You want to sack some nursing home workers in the middle of a pandemic so you can get a bit of satisfaction?

    You're sitting at home, while healthcare workers are doing their best for their patients. These sorts of things happen, but maybe less so when you're sat at home I guess.


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    #33
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    Fly_away wrote: »

    This is saddening and anger inducing.

    Will you ever fuc off with your hysterical catastrophe syndrome sh1te.

    A mistake was made. End of.


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    #34
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Brynn Fit Buttermilk wrote: »
    Lesson learned hopefully. Always going to be hiccups like this along the way unfortunately.

    I’d say this is definitely the only mistake the HSE will make with the vaccine rollout. Definitely. 100%. No more mistakes whatsoever. None.


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    #35
    cannotlogin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭cannotlogin


    People are human. Errors will happen. Everyone messes up sometimes but a witch hunt does no good. I'm pretty certain whoever is responsible feels pretty crap right now, but the blame game won't help.

    They reported it & hopefully others will learnt from it.

    A lot of people working on the frontline are exhausted, stressed etc. Mistakes will happen as a result.


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    #36
    Strumms
    Registered Users Posts: 25,478 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Management needed to educate and train staff, do a dry run with dummy shipments in the same packaging, from unloading to storage... and everything in between after and before...

    They needed to delegate checks using PST every hour that the vaccines were being staged and stored correctly ....

    Under lock and key...

    Under correct conditions especially temperature...

    That a secondary freezer is available, plugged in and working for backup in case the primary fails..


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    #37
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users Posts: 6,039 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    Amirani wrote: »
    You want to sack some nursing home workers in the middle of a pandemic so you can get a bit of satisfaction?

    You're sitting at home, while healthcare workers are doing their best for their patients. These sorts of things happen, but maybe less so when you're sat at home I guess.

    I'm an essential worker so not sitting at home thanks

    I also deal with medical supplies in my job

    If I lost that amount of precious vaccines then I wouldn't be left in my job

    It's a major major blunder that should not happen especially when we don't have vaccines to waste in this country

    I just hope that some residents won't lose their lives over this avoidable blunder

    Also hopefully lessons will be learnt in the rest of the HSE


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    For every case like this that you hear about, there will be several more that don't hit the headlines.
    It's probably delayed my vaccination a day or so. 22 July 2023 is my estimated date now 😂


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    #39
    davetherave
    Registered Users Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭davetherave


    plodder wrote: »
    I wonder what instructions did they receive?

    Mistakes will be made alright, but it would be nice to know what the cause was.

    I'd assume the same guidelines as everyone else

    https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/hcpinfo/covid19vaccineinfo4hps/clinicalguidance.pdf

    Clinical Guidance for COVID‐19 Vaccination


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    #40
    Mr_Muffin
    Registered Users Posts: 917 ✭✭✭Mr_Muffin


    Tiny number of vials. Thought it was going to be hundreds.


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    #41
    Kaleb Enough Blob
    Posts: 0 ✭ Kaleb Enough Blob


    Strumms wrote: »
    Management needed to educate and train staff, do a dry run with dummy shipments in the same packaging, from unloading to storage... and everything in between after and before...

    They needed to delegate checks using PST every hour that the vaccines were being staged and stored correctly ....

    Under lock and key...

    Under correct conditions especially temperature...

    That a secondary freezer is available, plugged in and working for backup in case the primary fails..

    They are exceeding my expectations to date in the rollout anyway!!

    I would most definitely not have said that a month ago as I awaited an expected HSE Administration trainwreck.


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    #42
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    Quick google shows 1900 doses lost in Boston when the cleaner unplugged the fridge. She's probably up for a death penalty hearing soon :rolleyes:

    Another incident in Germany saw hundreds of doses lost.

    (Edit: should have looked closer, the German incident didn't refer to loss of vaccine, but the Boston incident still stands. There was another with large numbers, but it was a deliberate act by a nutter in America.) I'm probably due for the drop now...

    In the scheme of things, these probably won't even be a miniscule blip on a graph. Its sad that these things happen, but once you put those pesky humans on the job...pffft.


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    #43
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    You can be sure of one thing.

    With the HSE in charge this won’t be the last vaccine controversy


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    #44
    plodder
    Registered Users Posts: 7,252 ✭✭✭plodder


    davetherave wrote: »
    I'd assume the same guidelines as everyone else

    https://www.hse.ie/eng/health/immunisation/hcpinfo/covid19vaccineinfo4hps/clinicalguidance.pdf

    Clinical Guidance for COVID‐19 Vaccination
    That's a fairly comprehensive document but over 100 pages long. How much of it is relevant for nursing home staff, I wonder?

    Also, it doesn't say a whole lot about the refrigeration requirements at the points of administration, as opposed to "the hubs" (whatever they are). You could be forgiven for thinking that a regular domestic fridge would be adequate there.

    Anyway, it was a simple mistake. Calling for people to be sacked is a joke. In fact, I thought the posts were a joke at first.


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    #45
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    You can be sure of one thing.

    With the HSE in charge this won’t be the last vaccine controversy
    The HSE just organise the plan and distribution. It's when it gets to the vaccinators there have been issues.


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    #46
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    NickNickleby wrote: »
    Quick google shows 1900 doses lost in Boston when the cleaner unplugged the fridge. She's probably up for a death penalty hearing soon :rolleyes:

    Another incident in Germany saw hundreds of doses lost.

    (Edit: should have looked closer, the German incident didn't refer to loss of vaccine, but the Boston incident still stands. There was another with large numbers, but it was a deliberate act by a nutter in America.) I'm probably due for the drop now...

    In the scheme of things, these probably won't even be a miniscule blip on a graph. Its sad that these things happen, but once you put those pesky humans on the job...pffft.
    It's been magnified because of where we are currently with supplies but some pretty excessive outrage about it.


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    #47
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The HSE just organise the plan and distribution. It's when it gets to the vaccinators there have been issues.

    When you put the words plan and HSE in the one sentence the side effects include disaster and fawk ups.


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    #48
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    When you put the words plan and HSE in the one sentence the side effects include disaster and fawk ups.
    There are issues with it and yet they are not responsible for these " disasters". I'd be inclined to trust them more on this as they do it every year successfully, even if it's nowhere near the same scale.


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    #49
    froog
    Registered Users Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭froog


    22 vials which is 132 doses.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2021/0126/1192206-louth-meath-vaccines/


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    #50
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    is_that_so wrote: »
    There are issues with it and yet they are not responsible for these " disasters". I'd be inclined to trust them more on this as they do it every year successfully, even if it's nowhere near the same scale.



    I’m unsure how any person in this country has faith in the HSE. If the cervical check scandal wasn’t the straw to break that camels back then I’m stumped.

    I don’t include front line workers in this because they like the general public are often the victims of the mess created by the HSE.

    I have zero faith in their ability to do this correctly, we have seen already that the IT system needed to cover the vaccines wasn’t in place before they began administering it. Families of management getting jabs and now this.

    As sure as the sun rises in the morning there will be more issues with the HSE and this vaccine.

    To be clear as well, it’s local GP’s and occupational nurses that administer the annual flu jab. When the vaccines for COVID are put in their hands then we might have smooth rollouts.


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    #51
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    I’m unsure how any person in this country has faith in the HSE. If the cervical check scandal wasn’t the straw to break that camels back then I’m stumped.

    I don’t include front line workers in this because they like the general public are often the victims of the mess created by the HSE.

    I have zero faith in their ability to do this correctly, we have seen already that the IT system needed to cover the vaccines wasn’t in place before they began administering it. Families of management getting jabs and now this.

    As sure as the sun rises in the morning there will be more issues with the HSE and this vaccine.

    To be clear as well, it’s local GP’s and occupational nurses that administer the annual flu jab. When the vaccines for COVID are put in their hands then we might have smooth rollouts.


    I think you're wrong to cite the Cervical Screening Programme as stick to beat the HSE with.

    That was a SCREENING programming. Unfortunately, screening programs come with an 'acceptable' level of error. Obviously that means nothing for the poor unfortunate who's cancer has been missed. All a screening program can do is try to catch cancer early before symptoms appear, thereby increasing the chances of a positive outcome. Many people are probably alive today because of the screening program.

    The author of this piece is a scientist and retired gynaecologist.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/confusion-over-cervical-cancer-screening-needs-to-be-resolved-once-and-for-all-1.4433326


    edit to add: I have no friends or family working in the HSE. But I still think they're playing a blinder with their handling of the pandemic. And yes, I know people who have died of Covid. Their families blame Covid, not the HSE.


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    #52
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    To be clear as well, it’s local GP’s and occupational nurses that administer the annual flu jab. When the vaccines for COVID are put in their hands then we might have smooth rollouts.
    Hospitals too, but who do you think plans it all, gets the vaccines and distributes them? It's not GPs!
    GP and pharmacies BTW can only do 75,000-80,000 shots a week.


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    #53
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    NickNickleby wrote: »
    I think you're wrong to cite the Cervical Screening Programme as stick to beat the HSE with.

    That was a SCREENING programming. Unfortunately, screening programs come with an 'acceptable' level of error. Obviously that means nothing for the poor unfortunate who's cancer has been missed. All a screening program can do is try to catch cancer early before symptoms appear, thereby increasing the chances of a positive outcome. Many people are probably alive today because of the screening program.

    The author of this piece is a scientist and retired gynaecologist.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/confusion-over-cervical-cancer-screening-needs-to-be-resolved-once-and-for-all-1.4433326


    edit to add: I have no friends or family working in the HSE. But I still think they're playing a blinder with their handling of the pandemic. And yes, I know people who have died of Covid. Their families blame Covid, not the HSE.



    Playing a blinder with the nursing homes?
    Playing a blinder with the levels of nosocomial infection?
    Playing a blinder with a testing system that has maxed out?
    Playing a blinder with tracing that’s unable to operate?
    Playing a blinder not testing close contacts?
    Playing a blinder leaving frontline staff unvaccinated and managements
    Kids getting a shot?
    Playing a blinder with not having an IT system for the vaccine.
    A lack of mass testing for hospital staff was raised by NPHET as recently as Dec 10th.



    The HSE stopped threading water a long time ago.


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    #54
    NickNickleby
    Registered Users Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭NickNickleby


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    Playing a blinder with the nursing homes?
    Yep, most of the worst infected nursing homes were privately run. Then their rep body came out to say they were getting no support from the HSE, who should have told them to start ploughing their profits back into making their homes and the people in their care, safe.

    Playing a blinder with the levels of nosocomial infection?
    whatever that is...

    Playing a blinder with a testing system that has maxed out?
    Of course it is, and why is that? Because despite all the warnings, people are still not complying with the guidance - hence Garda checkpoints

    Playing a blinder with tracing that’s unable to operate?
    see above
    Playing a blinder not testing close contacts?
    Again, see above. Close contacts should immediately self isolate as per advice.

    Playing a blinder leaving frontline staff unvaccinated and managements
    Kids getting a shot    ?
    2. TWO. and you can hardly lay that at the door of the HSE. Everyone will be vaccinated. Perhaps they should have left all the old folks in the nursing homes you're so concerned about and only done the frontline staff.

    I'm actually astounded at the number of groups that are coming out and saying they should be further up the queue. I'm not expecting to be vaccinated any time soon - I'm in my mid sixties - so I'm adhering to all the guidelines. Mask on when I leave the house. Social distancing. Hand Hygiene. I had a slight cold recently, so stayed indoors for over a week, even though it was gone in 2 days. No visits to my house. No visits by me to other houses. I still have to shop to live, but I, and everyone I see, follows all the protocols.

    Playing a blinder with not having an IT system for the vaccine.
    Obviously your knowledge of IT systems development allows you to make this observation. If it was rushed and an error arose ,no matter how insignificant, it would have been jumped on by the usual crew.

    A lack of mass testing for hospital staff was raised by NPHET as recently as Dec 10th.
    Indeed, but that's for the Government to step in and provide the funding. We all know the HSE has been underfunded for years. In fact, the HSE was invented to allow the Government to wash its hands of the running of the health service.

    The HSE stopped threading water a long time ago.
    Indeed it did, see my comment immediately above

    By the way, vaccination offers no guarantee of safety for transmission from a vaccinated person. Although listening to Luke O'Neill on the radio, apparently some vaccines can reduce the viral load in the upper respiratory system, which helps to reduce the risk.

    So, given the low bar from which the HSE has had to rise, with the constant underfunding of health in this country - hence the rise in private care - I applaud the HSE.

    I know your concerns are genuine, but I think the blame lies at the door of successive governments who, in support of a low tax regime, have left us with a chronically underfunded system.

    Edit : Apologies - I tried to italicise your comments and then add my responses in plain type, but everything is italicised.


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    #55
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    NickNickleby wrote: »
    By the way, vaccination offers no guarantee of safety for transmission from a vaccinated person. Although listening to Luke O'Neill on the radio, apparently some vaccines can reduce the viral load in the upper respiratory system, which helps to reduce the risk.

    So, given the low bar from which the HSE has had to rise, with the constant underfunding of health in this country - hence the rise in private care - I applaud the HSE.

    I know your concerns are genuine, but I think the blame lies at the door of successive governments who, in support of a low tax regime, have left us with a chronically underfunded system.

    Edit : Apologies - I tried to italicise your comments and then add my responses in plain type, but everything is italicised.


    I could tell you stories about millions upon millions that’s wasted in the HSE. Stories so ridiculous and costly that you probably would not believe them.

    If you think for a second the HSE is a competent organization your just simply wrong.

    There is very little wrong with the quantity of funding the HSE receive, the problems lie with how it is used.


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    #56
    foozzybear61
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭foozzybear61


    Myself and two work mates got notice to be at a nursing home in Rathfarnaham today aby 2 pm as they had 11 spare doses over . Google maps said it would take us 45 mins to get there ..Did it in 30... A happy man am I:rolleyes:


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    #57
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    foozzybear61 wrote: »
    Myself and two work mates got notice to be at a nursing home in Rathfarnaham today aby 2 pm as they had 11 spare doses over . Google maps said it would take us 45 mins to get there ..Did it in 30... A happy man am I:rolleyes:

    Please upload a full CV and Certificate of Worthiness of Life so that we can all judge whether you deserved it or not.


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    #58
    foozzybear61
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭foozzybear61


    CrabRevolution wrote: »
    Please upload a full CV and Certificate of Worthiness of Life so that we can all judge whether you deserved it or not.

    Work frontline for an organization that supports special needs.


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    #59
    hynesie08
    Registered Users Posts: 9,805 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    foozzybear61 wrote: »
    Work frontline for an organization that supports special needs.

    Not good enough, Gonna need a family tree and an entire breakdown of your entire constituency including age and medical records.


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    #60
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    They should give the vaccine to anyone that can show up with say € 4000 cash


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    #61
    CrabRevolution
    Registered Users Posts: 2,863 ✭✭✭CrabRevolution


    foozzybear61 wrote: »
    Work frontline for an organization that supports special needs.

    In case it wasn't obvious I was just making a joke...

    As far as I can tell from the threads here, the bar for vaccination at the moment should be set so high that almost nobody should be getting it.


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