Reddit/Gamestop vs.Wall Street

Wanderer78

Thematics wrote:

Then explain it to me if it's obvious, how are people being fukced over?

The financial sector is controlling all of the cards, it has a monopoly of the money supply, it simply creates money from thin air, effectively sells this money in the form of loans, and if the debtors cannot repay these loans, the financial sector gains control of the assets, Jesus, what a business model!

The financial sector is simply trying to 'maximise share holder value', these are the main goals we have created for the sector, it is believed that this benefits all, it doesn't. The sector has learned a lot since 08, it is trying to prevent another meltdown, we have learned that our economies have limited abilities in preventing such meltdowns, so it makes sense to not loan right now, particularly to vulnerable borrowers, due to current uncertainties, as our financial sector has limited abilities to buffer from things such as none performing loans and defaults. So the system defaults to, 'maximising share holder value'.

Thematics wrote:

Do you understand that markets are driven by supply and demand?

No they fcuking arent, that's text book fantasy land nonsense, there's no bloody invisible man, there's no rational humans, standing around rationally expecting, waiting for equilibriums, what a load of nonsense, ffs!

Wanderer78

patnor1011 wrote:

Fairly easy to get in if you do have revolut account. You can also have fun playing with other stocks, commodities and crypto. If you know what you are doing you can easily cover your monthly fees and make some extra money. If you do not know what you are doing you will lose money.

Its also a game, where egos get crushed, when the big boys cash in, you must be prepared to lose it also, always remember, 'asymmetry of information'!

Wanderer78

Thematics wrote:

When did I mention anything about rational humans, you're having argument with yourself, it's bizarre, like some form of pyschosis you're under.

You really need to check in with your own beliefs there, we were sold a pack of lies and simply bullsh1t in our educational institutions regarding this stuff, by any chance have you a background in economics via these institutions, if so, it's all largely sh1te, with little or no connection to reality? I'm under phycosis!

Wanderer78

Thematics wrote:

Banks take deposits and give out loans. This means that there is in effect grester money supply as people can make assets using iou's effectively. To that I respond so what. Do you suggest that banks should not be permitted to loan people money?

Again, you don't seem to be keeping up with current affairs, deposits are not used directly in the process of credit creation, deposits are simply held as reserves. you're defaulting again to the text books, oh and banks are not 'intermediates', as depicted in your books, banks simply create the money, when a loan is requested, via a method that is commonly called, 'double entry bookkeeping'

Wanderer78

Thematics wrote:

Seriously, why are you so angry? Life is too short. If you live in Ireland try to appreciate how lucky you are, you live in one of the wealthiest and most prosperous countries in the most prosperous time to be alive, pandemic aside, which will pass.

Why am I so angry? Because we 're all in serious trouble, and our beloved financial sector is causing a significant proportion of our problems. Yes wealthy, but it's a high concentration of wealth, while most are getting fcuked, and fcuked hard

thomas 123

Thematics wrote: »

I always find it amusing when you hear about people referring to "creating money from thin air".

Banks take deposits and give out loans. This means that there is in effect grester money supply as people can make assets using iou's effectively. To that I respond so what. Do you suggest that banks should not be permitted to loan people money?

Some of the ranting about finance sounds like a spoilt kid having a hissy fit because they didn't get their way. It's quite surreal to witness.

Take a look on YouTube some fantastic documentaries about how money works today vs how it did before the move away from the gold standard.

Money is essentially “created” from thin air , there might be some “rules” that guarantee it but in reality there is nothing(or very very little) to back up FIAT currency.

https://youtu.be/JG5c8nhR3LE

The White Wolf

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Some more detailed reading here. Guardian have gone quite big with this

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jan/27/gamestop-stock-market-retail-wall-street

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2021/jan/27/gamestops-dizzying-share-price-rise-is-game-over-for-the-short-sellers

and a stupid opinion piece here but with some excellent posting below the line by people not paid to write lazy crap.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/28/anarchy-in-jokes-and-trolling-the-gamestop-fiasco-is-4chan-think-in-action

I noticed the Guardian had a strange take on this alright, pro Wall street essentially. No idea what the outlet's purpose is anymore.

thomas 123

Thematics wrote: »

Yes I'm well aware of what fiat currency is and move away from the gold standard. The gold standard had to end, it wasn't feasible long term. The gold standard ended for most in the 1930's abd fully in the 1971 I beleve.

Hence central banks are required to be the guardians against inflation in a world with fiat currency.

Money works so long as everyone agrees it works. But to that I say, so what, what's your problem with that scenario?

So if your well aware of this how can this previous statement be true?




“I always find it amusing when you hear about people referring to "creating money from thin air".

Banks take deposits and give out loans. This means that there is in effect grester money supply as people can make assets using iou's effectively. To that I respond so what. Do you suggest that banks should not be permitted to loan people money?

Some of the ranting about finance sounds like a spoilt kid having a hissy fit because they didn't get their way. It's quite surreal to witness.”

SoapMcTavish

Thematics wrote: »

Do you have any specific examples of the rent seeking behaviour? Any particular companies and strategies they deploy?

here we go again ..... :eek:

SoapMcTavish

Thematics wrote: »

Do you have an example of a fund you don't like and a particular strategy they deployed that gained on the back of honest people?

Melvin .... Shorting ..... Gamestop ......

SoapMcTavish

Thematics wrote: »

This relates to an earlier post of mine about psychology.

The world scares you, the reason you are reacting so emotionally is because you are scared of relying on yourself to navigate the world. You wanted to replace mammy and daddy with other authorities to tell you what to do and how to live and to tell you that everything will be ok. So when you find out that such authorities can't be trusted your whole world comes crashing down.

My advice to you is to learn to rely on yourself, the world isn't as scary as you think it is. You're going to die one day and be gone forever, nobody will remember you even existed. So stop wasting your precious time on this planet ranting about things you can't control.

When they are children, some people learn to be passive aggressive.

Wanderer78

Thematics wrote: »

This relates to an earlier post of mine about psychology.

The world scares you, the reason you are reacting so emotionally is because you are scared of relying on yourself to navigate the world. You wanted to replace mammy and daddy with other authorities to tell you what to do and how to live and to tell you that everything will be ok. So when you find out that such authorities can't be trusted your whole world comes crashing down.

My advice to you is to learn to rely on yourself, the world isn't as scary as you think it is. You're going to die one day and be gone forever, nobody will remember you even existed. So stop wasting your precious time on this planet ranting about things you can't control.

jesus, this is weird out!

yes, the world is indeed about psychology and human behavior, of which modern economic thinking is almost completely void of, again, there are no rational humans, rationally expecting!

jesus, this really is getting weird now, im sorry but you are projecting your thoughts and feelings of why you think im behaving so, im sorry, but you dont have a clue about why im so angry. crashing down! what in gods name are you talking about? the world still exists outside, it really does!

do you really think you have complete autonomy from our global institutions and systems?

Wanderer78

Thematics wrote: »

The above does not contradict fiat currency.

Likewise, people can also "create money out if thin air". If a group of friends write iou's and agree to accept them as payment that have just "created money out of thin air". So what.

in the real world, theres effectively only two methods of true money creation, via government bond programs and by banks, anything else is just bullsh!t, yes, most cryptos are not forms of money, not yet anyway, but could be in the future

fergiesfolly

While I understand (sort of) the mechanics of short selling, I don't understand how these hedge funds decide which share to use and does the action of a share being bought by a hedge fund actually help drive the price down.
Were Gamestop financially healthy before this happened and could they be in trouble because of short selling?

Wanderer78

Thematics wrote: »

They aren't gaining at the expense of the "honest people" of Gamestop. Gamestop's fate os tied to it's findamentals. If Gamestop has a healthy balance sheet and revenue growth they will be fine regardless of who shorts them.

The business world is survival of the fittest, this is beneficial to society in general as it encourages greater productivity. Unproductive companies should be going out of business, in fact there are far too many zombie com9anies surviving today that should be going out of business so that capital can be redeployed to more productive investment vehicles.

...so financialized activities such as shorting, share buy backs etc, increase productivity! how exactly?

Thematics talking about zombie companies while posting ideological nonsense from a zombie account. Love the irony in that.

capital can be redeployed to more productive investment vehicles.

It's like you've read The Wealth Of Nations for the first time and are trying to impress us with this bland piffle. The fact is that the supply and demand of the stock is what guarantees returns on the stock market. especially for hedge funds with large capital to throw around. And quite often it can be completely unrelated to the business fundamentals, case in point Robinhood refusing to let investors purchase the stock to artificially decrease demand at the behest of MC and Citadel.

There is a reason Buffett got out of the shorting business. As Buffett has said plenty of times in his AM's "You buy optimism when you invest in a stock. It's easier to spot good business sense when you know a company is capital liquid and productive. When you short stocks, you no longer invest in optimism, you speculate on failure. And speculation bankrupts business' that otherwise can turn things around."

Tony EH

Exactly.

Their posts are naive "free marketeer" baloney. It sounds like they're coming from someone young, who's read a few things online and is now an expert, bravely setting sail to inform everyone of how benevolent and unmanipulated markets are...


...on a thread about the blatant manipulation of markets.

Mister Vain

fergiesfolly wrote: »

While I understand (sort of) the mechanics of short selling, I don't understand how these hedge funds decide which share to use and does the action of a share being bought by a hedge fund actually help drive the price down.
Were Gamestop financially healthy before this happened and could they be in trouble because of short selling?

I don't know all the details on Gamestop but presumably they were already in trouble due to the pandemic, hence the short selling.

Wanderer78

Mister Vain wrote: »

I don't know all the details on Gamestop but presumably they were already in trouble due to the pandemic, hence the short selling.

...and the fact, gaming has largely moved online

Tony EH

Mister Vain wrote: »

I don't know all the details on Gamestop but presumably they were already in trouble due to the pandemic, hence the short selling.

Gamestop has been in trouble a long time before COVID appeared. As Wanderer said, it has more to do with gaming being purchased online through the likes of Steam and Epic than it has with the current pandemic, although that certainly didn't help in any way, that's for sure.

Simply put, people with a Steam account and a decent online connection can download a 50gb game quicker than it would take to go to the shop and hand over the money for it.

Gamers on that Reddit page were more energised about kicking shorters in the bollocks because of what that type of financial endeavour represents, rather than saving Gamestop, which would be almost impossible task with how online sales have crushed the basic high street shop.

This is it

ocallagh wrote: »

From my extremely limited knowledge on the subject (I've spent maybe 4hrs reading up on it, and limited experience trading myself), one thing that I don't understand is the relationship between short selling and the survival of the underlying business. There are some comments in this thread, and also throughout Reddit, that Melvin and other hedge funds, through their short selling, are either causing, or significantly contributing to the demise of gamestop.

Surely anyone short selling is simply speculating on the price of the shares, and competing against buyers, who are also speculating on the price of the shares. Neither are competing with the underlying business?

The issue is GameStop, for example, is seen as a viable company. When Melvin or similar short this in itself starts to push the price of shares down, investors get wobbly and sell off some shares, stories leaked about a "failing company", more shares sold off, prices tank and Melvin, or whoever, make their millions or billions. It's why Musk joined the party, funds shorted on Tesla but it didn't work out and they lost billions.

Doctor Roast

What I've noticed on the wsb forum and a lot of comments on YouTube etc, is these small time investors are perfectly fine with losing any money they've invested in gamestop shares just to stick it to Wall St, it shows just how much of a mess the financial system is

Wanderer78

Doctor Roast wrote: »

What I've noticed on the wsb forum and a lot of comments on YouTube etc, is these small time investors are perfectly fine with losing any money they've invested in gamestop shares just to stick it to Wall St, it shows just how much of a mess the financial system is

...and by the looks of it, most have invested small amounts, and could only lose small amounts, its more of a numbers game, as in, more people investing, not a few investing large amounts

Doctor Roast

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...and by the looks of it, most have invested small amounts, and could only lose small amounts, its more of a numbers game, as in, more people investing, not a few investing large amounts

It's been brilliant to watch unfold, especially the uproar when the little people play them at their own game, all of a sudden there's people being wheeled out for interviews, talk of regulation, blatant market manipulation, it exposes the whole rotten lot of it

briany

Wanderer78

Doctor Roast wrote: »

It's been brilliant to watch unfold, especially the uproar when the little people play them at their own game, all of a sudden there's people being wheeled out for interviews, talk of regulation, blatant market manipulation, it exposes the whole rotten lot of it

it sure is interesting to watch, but again, the rules are always against average joe, i think average joe will lose out here overall, i suspect this could increase the precariousness of the company overall, potentially putting many jobs on the line, we re in serious trouble regarding finance, something has to give soon

Tony EH

Wanderer78 wrote: »

it sure is interesting to watch, but again, the rules are always against average joe, i think average joe will lose out here overall, i suspect this could increase the precariousness of the company overall, potentially putting many jobs on the line, we re in serious trouble regarding finance, something has to give soon

Yeh, there's going to be no real victory here, other than opening a few people's eyes to just how vulnerable a "free" market is to fiddling by the big boys.

Without sensible regulation that restricts sharp practices and underhanded activities, the market is ripe for manipulation. But nothing will be done on the back of this and it'll be forgotten in a, ahem, short time. If 2008 wasn't a significant motivator to change things, this certainly won't be.

Sadly, everyone on this thread will be long gone before there's anyone in power that will truly tackle the awful state that the global financial situation is in. That's the terrible truth we all find ourselves in these days.

Wanderer78

Tony EH wrote: »

Yeh, there's going to be no real victory here, other than opening a few people's eyes to just how vulnerable a "free" market is to fiddling by the big boys.

Without sensible regulation that restricts sharp practices and underhanded activities, the market is ripe for manipulation. But nothing will be done on the back of this and it'll be forgotten in a, ahem, short time. If 2008 wasn't a significant motivator to change things, this certainly won't be.

Sadly, everyone on this thread will be long gone before there's anyone in power that will truly tackle the awful state that the global financial situation is in. That's the terrible truth we all find ourselves in these days.

im expecting a significant shock at some stage in my lifetime regarding the dysfunctions of the financial sector, i will agree though, if 08 wasnt a big enough shock for change, you d have to wonder, what will, and that scares the sh1t out of me, how far do we push this!

strandroad

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...and by the looks of it, most have invested small amounts, and could only lose small amounts, its more of a numbers game, as in, more people investing, not a few investing large amounts

If I could be bothered I'd put in a low few hundred myself then enjoy following the developments. Considering it to be a charity donation to an educational institution.
I don't think that small investors are chasing fortunes there.

Wanderer78

strandroad wrote: »

If I could be bothered I'd put in a low few hundred myself then enjoy following the developments. Considering it to be a charity donation to an educational institution.
I don't think that small investors are chasing fortunes there.

is that what theyre doing, benefits to charity? no its clearly to prove a point, id have to admire it, people have had enough, particularly since 08, nothing has truly changed here, and the people know it, younger generations are getting fcuked hard here, and they know how. ive personally benefitted very well from these policies and actions, but at least i know, if this continues, we all go down