Mr Martin and the Shamrock fiasco

micosoft

Allinall wrote: »

Hypocrisy of the highest order.

Par for the course. The only thing out of touch is the false equivalence of someone comparing their trip to Lanzarote to the Taoiseach visiting the US president for St. Patricks day. The sense of dripping entitlement of some keyboard warriors who genuinely think they are as important as the most important political role in the country and they suggest that the Taoiseach is out of touch? Perhaps turn on the webcam and take a hard look at the person who is out of touch with serious notions about themselves.

This is aside from the need for boards to ban any post that starts with "This out of touch with the public" with he implication that person literally represents the entire electorate of Ireland and not just a smattering of said Keyboard warriors.

micosoft

manster wrote: »

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

Great that you can quote Orwell but most democracies have an understanding that the head of state is "first among equals". By virtue of their elected role in a representative democracy the Taoiseach can readily say they represent the Irish people and as such certain privileges apply. To deny that is arrant nonsense by the entitled class.

walshb

Scoondal wrote: »

Mr Martin's ego trip to Washington on St. Patrick's Day will most likely not go ahead.
There would be a massive public backlash against him.
It just shows how out of touch the government is with the mood of Irish people.

Backlash from who?

It absolutely should go ahead.

Mood of Irish people? The "I'm not allowed go for me few gargles of a Sunday night, so fook you, Mr. Taoiseach going over to the U.S. to meet some owl lad...?"

MM is our Taoiseach....probably D most “essential” worker in our country..

No idea at all of why there would be or should be any backlash..

micosoft

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'd say Trump met anyone who was anyone back in the day. Wonder did Gerry sort out any planning applications for him?

Leo was a bit too friendly in my opinion when we all knew what the Donald was like at that stage.

Varadkar did an extraordinary job compared to the May and Johnson. To the point he managed to bring Pence over and do his duty for Ireland despite Pence's abhorrent views of his personal circumstances. I think most reasonable commentators then and now would suggest Ireland played a careful diplomatic line.

CrazyFather1

walshb wrote: »

Backlash from who?

It absolutely should go ahead.

Mood of Irish people? The "I'm not allowed go for me few gargles of a Sunday night, so fook you, Mr. Taoiseach going over to the U.S. to meet some owl lad...?"

MM is our Taoiseach....probably D most “essential” worker in our country..

No idea at all of why there would be or should be any backlash..

It's more huff and puff from the huff & puff party called Sinn Fein. Next they will be out with Gemma marching. The more and more this goes on it seems SF and Gemma's policies are merging.

CrazyFather1

micosoft wrote: »

Par for the course. The only thing out of touch is the false equivalence of someone comparing their trip to Lanzarote to the Taoiseach visiting the US president for St. Patricks day. The sense of dripping entitlement of some keyboard warriors who genuinely think they are as important as the most important political role in the country and they suggest that the Taoiseach is out of touch? Perhaps turn on the webcam and take a hard look at the person who is out of touch with serious notions about themselves.

This is aside from the need for boards to ban any post that starts with "This out of touch with the public" with he implication that person literally represents the entire electorate of Ireland and not just a smattering of said Keyboard warriors.

You will find 4-5 posters on here think they represent everyone in Ireland, this includes telling everyone that nobody support FF anymore, that Leo is hated by everyone etc etc.
The same posters have no idea what the Central Bank is, says a lot.

walshb

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

It's more huff and puff from the huff & puff party called Sinn Fein. Next they will be out with Gemma marching. The more and more this goes on it seems SF and Gemma's policies are merging.

Spot on

The usual anti establishment populists...

Whacker can't go on the lash anymore, so fook the Taoiseach and his jaunt to the U.S.

There are many people in society who still have to do their jobs, and that includes traveling......

The trip to the U.S. each year is a very significant event for this country, and is absolutely essential; more so this year due to a new administration...

FrancieBrady

micosoft wrote: »

Varadkar did an extraordinary job compared to the May and Johnson. To the point he managed to bring Pence over and do his duty for Ireland despite Pence's abhorrent views of his personal circumstances. I think most reasonable commentators then and now would suggest Ireland played a careful diplomatic line.

I wasn't referencing Varadkar's meeting with Pence (Varadkar has a track record of not speaking up for the rights of people in his 'personal circumstances' when it isn't politically expedient or fashionable) I was talking about Varadkar revealing he did 'favours' for Donald Trump.

Risteard81

micosoft wrote: »

Great that you can quote Orwell but most democracies have an understanding that the head of state is "first among equals". By virtue of their elected role in a representative democracy the Taoiseach can readily say they represent the Irish people and as such certain privileges apply. To deny that is arrant nonsense by the entitled class.

He's not the head of state. He's the alleged head of government. He's a barely elected tyrant.

Mehole NEEDS to go over to ask Joe to tell the Tory's to stop bullying him and putting a hard border in Ireland..

Jesus wept

CrazyFather1

Edz87 wrote: »

Mehole NEEDS to go over to ask Joe to tell the Tory's to stop bullying him and putting a hard border in Ireland..

Jesus wept

Who is Mehole?

CrazyFather1

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

Who is Mehole?

A fella that should be able to use Zoom.

CrazyFather1

walshb wrote: »

Spot on

The usual anti establishment populists...

Whacker can't go on the lash anymore, so fook the Taoiseach and his jaunt to the U.S.

There are many people in society who still have to do their jobs, and that includes traveling......

The trip to the U.S. each year is a very significant event for this country, and is absolutely essential; more so this year due to a new administration...

They are anti everything. If MM turned around tomorrow and said he wasn't going you would have the Huff & Puff party on saying it was an insult to the US he isn't travelling. People have lost interest in listening to Huff & Puff, same outrage, foaming at the mouth roaring. It's got boring now after 12 months of outrage over everything

marieholmfan

manster wrote: »

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

What's your point?
Or rather what do you imagine anti-Irish, racist, rapist, informer old-Etonian Eric Blair's point to have been?

I am on the left (unlike Eric Blair) but Mehole should definitely go. Miss the visit once and it might never come back.

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1359969567494258688

UDAWINNER

UDAWINNER wrote: »

As for MM, if he goes on this jolly up how can say to people restrict their movements, not travel abroad with a straight abuse. We all know there will be people who will use this as an excuse to further break the guidelines. Show some leadership ffs, don't be like leo last year announcing a lockdown in this country from America.

People can travel for work. It’s part of his job.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

People can travel for work. It’s part of his job.

If the "work" can be facilitated by a Zoom call then no, you can't travel.

What exactly is he doing that cant be done online? Asking Apple and Google to pay more tax? They can tell him to **** off on Zoom. Peoples lives are at risk, no?

BattleCorp

Edz87 wrote: »

If the "work" can be facilitated by a Zoom call then no, you can't travel.

What exactly is he doing that cant be done online? Asking Apple and Google to pay more tax? They can tell him to **** off on Zoom. Peoples lives are at risk, no?

By going to the US for St. Patrick's Day, we get unfettered access to the US President and Vice President and many other people at the bowl of shamrock ceremony.

Do you think all of them would bother their hole to do that meet and greet over Zoom? Do you really think it would be successful over Zoom?

If you believe it would, I've a bridge I'd like to sell you.

timeToLive

BattleCorp wrote: »

By going to the US for St. Patrick's Day, we get unfettered access to the US President and Vice President and many other people at the bowl of shamrock ceremony.

Do you think all of them would bother their hole to do that meet and greet over Zoom? Do you really think it would be successful over Zoom?

If you believe it would, I've a bridge I'd like to sell you.

If you think the soon-to-be-former taoiseach has any clout in these conversations I have two bridges to sell you


If they can't make it work over zoom that raises some real concerns over their competency.



Lots of people say things like deals are done behind closed doors. That is NOT how we want our governments to operate.

FrancieBrady

BattleCorp wrote: »

By going to the US for St. Patrick's Day, we get unfettered access to the US President and Vice President and many other people at the bowl of shamrock ceremony.

Do you think all of them would bother their hole to do that meet and greet over Zoom? Do you really think it would be successful over Zoom?

If you believe it would, I've a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Having to 'go and check' doesn't exactly give the impression that the US view this an important or significant event.

BattleCorp

BattleCorp wrote: »

By going to the US for St. Patrick's Day, we get unfettered access to the US President and Vice President and many other people at the bowl of shamrock ceremony.

Do you think all of them would bother their hole to do that meet and greet over Zoom? Do you really think it would be successful over Zoom?

If you believe it would, I've a bridge I'd like to sell you.

And what does that unfettered access get us, exactly? More companies exploiting us for our cheapo tax and jobs for boys once their time in government is up? Take that bridge and ram it up your hole sideways

blanch152

micosoft wrote: »

Par for the course. The only thing out of touch is the false equivalence of someone comparing their trip to Lanzarote to the Taoiseach visiting the US president for St. Patricks day. The sense of dripping entitlement of some keyboard warriors who genuinely think they are as important as the most important political role in the country and they suggest that the Taoiseach is out of touch? Perhaps turn on the webcam and take a hard look at the person who is out of touch with serious notions about themselves.

This is aside from the need for boards to ban any post that starts with "This out of touch with the public" with he implication that person literally represents the entire electorate of Ireland and not just a smattering of said Keyboard warriors.

The Lanzarote comparison wasn't the worst to be fair.

We had one lad saying that going to a houseparty at the weekend would be justified by MM going to Washington!!!

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The Lanzarote comparison wasn't the worst to be fair.

We had one lad saying that going to a houseparty at the weekend would be justified by MM going to Washington!!!

When I criticised SF for the mistake they made at the funeral, it was on the basis of their exceptionalism.
I thought it was clear from listening to everyone else having various degrees of conniptions about the funeral that 'exceptionalism' was rightfully 'no excuse'.

This is what Micheál is doing 'excepting himself from the regs, and the spirit of those regs. And that opens the door for others to do it, the exact same charge that was levelled at SF.

joe40

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Having to 'go and check' doesn't exactly give the impression that the US view this an important or significant event.

All the more reason to keep the tradition going.

I'm sure Trump would have gladly done away with it but didn't want to be the one to break the tradition.

It may not go ahead this year but I'm sure if at all possible Biden would keep this tradition alive.
It is good access to the WH. I accept the benefit of a single trip that is hard to quantify.
I can see the arguments for not going but on balance if an invitation is given, then MM should accept.

FrancieBrady

joe40 wrote: »

All the more reason to keep the tradition going.

I'm sure Trump would have gladly done away with it but didn't want to be the one to break the tradition.

It may not go ahead this year but I'm sure if at all possible Biden would keep this tradition alive.
It is good access to the WH. I accept the benefit of a single trip that is hard to quantify.
I can see the arguments for not going but on balance if an invitation is given, then MM should accept.

Jesus. The 'waiting on an invite' is a ruse. It is a 'standing invitation' since 1956. We are guaranteed it...from the US government's own site:

https://ie.usembassy.gov/ireland-is-the-only-country-guaranteed-an-annual-date-at-the-white-house-irish-independent-op-ed/

What Micheál is waiting for is the US to decide if the event goes ahead or not.

Ashbourne hoop

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jesus. The 'waiting on an invite' is a ruse. It is a 'standing invitation' since 1956. We are guaranteed it...from the US government's own site:

https://ie.usembassy.gov/ireland-is-the-only-country-guaranteed-an-annual-date-at-the-white-house-irish-independent-op-ed/

What Micheál is waiting for is the US to decide if the event goes ahead or not.

Bit pedantic, no ? If the event doesn't go ahead, he doesn't get an invite. I still reckon that's the most likely turn of events anyway.

BattleCorp

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Having to 'go and check' doesn't exactly give the impression that the US view this an important or significant event.

It's not important or significant to the US. It's important and significant to us.

joe40

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jesus. The 'waiting on an invite' is a ruse. It is a 'standing invitation' since 1956. We are guaranteed it...from the US government's own site:

https://ie.usembassy.gov/ireland-is-the-only-country-guaranteed-an-annual-date-at-the-white-house-irish-independent-op-ed/

What Micheál is waiting for is the US to decide if the event goes ahead or not.

Waiting for an invite, and waiting for the WH to decide in this year's circumstances are the same thing.

MM has already said he would go ( I would have preferred that he had not done so publicly) but now it is up to the WH to decide.

I get there are different opinions but how is that a ruse?

BattleCorp

Edz87 wrote: »

And what does that unfettered access get us, exactly? More companies exploiting us for our cheapo tax and jobs for boys once their time in government is up? Take that bridge and ram it up your hole sideways

You really have blinkers on if you think that Ireland doesn't benefit from having US Multinationals here.

Those foreign Multinationals here in Ireland (many are from the US) provide jobs to thousands of Irish people. Approximately 65% of our Corporation tax is from Multinationals.

Here's the source for that but I'm guessing from your comment about me ramming a bridge up my hole sideways that you aren't interested in a source. https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0708/1152016-new-oecd-tax-data/

FrancieBrady

joe40 wrote: »

Waiting for an invite, and waiting for the WH to decide in this year's circumstances are the same thing.

MM has already said he would go ( I would have preferred that he had not done so publicly) but now it is up to the WH to decide.

I get there are different opinions but how is that a ruse?

There is a 'standing invite'. He is cynically testing public opinions to guage how much damage going will do to him.
It is the modern way for FF and FG, leak and manipulate.