Mr Martin and the Shamrock fiasco

show me the money.1

I think he should go to promote Ireland. US citizens like us are looking at where they will go on holidays when covid is all over it is a great opportunity to promote the island.

Also to show we are still open for business plenty American company's paying big wages and employing people on this island.

And it would be good to get to meet Mr Biden before Boris does.

blanch152

show me the money.1 wrote: »

I think he should go to promote Ireland. US citizens like us are looking at where they will go on holidays when covid is all over it is a great opportunity to promote the island.

Also to show we are still open for business plenty American company's paying big wages and employing people on this island.

And it would be good to get to meet Mr Biden before Boris does.

Absolutely correct.

Travel for essential business purposes is allowed. There is nothing more essential to Ireland's future economic success than ensuring that FDI continues in a post-Covid world where retrenchment and nationalism are bound to become more prominent.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Absolutely correct.

Travel for essential business purposes is allowed. There is nothing more essential to Ireland's future economic success than ensuring that FDI continues in a post-Covid world where retrenchment and nationalism are bound to become more prominent.

So meet him before big bad Boris does. Get one up on de Brits

'Absolutely Correct' you say.

'retrenchment' 'Nationalism' you say.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Absolutely correct.

Travel for essential business purposes is allowed. There is nothing more essential to Ireland's future economic success than ensuring that FDI continues in a post-Covid world where retrenchment and nationalism are bound to become more prominent.

How deos coronavirus know how to differenitate between essential business and a holiday?

HBC08

This is a tough one.

I dont think Irish people realise the huge opportunity we have every year to get the ear of the most powerful man in the world. Not many other countries and certainly none our size have this regular and guarenteed set up.
If Trump had won then the trip would be less important,it was obvious he wasn't interested.
Biden on the other hand has nailed his colours to the mast,this year could have been the most important st Patrick's day visit in a generation.

My own opinion is it won't happen,the optics certainly wouldn't look good.The mob are already pre outraged as pointed out on this thread.There is a seemingly growing cohort (probably mostly online) who are incapable of thinking things through and don't know what pragmatism is.

A Shaved Duck?

HBC08 wrote: »

This is a tough one.

I dont think Irish people realise the huge opportunity we have every year to get the ear of the most powerful man in the world. Not many other countries and certainly none our size have this regular and guarenteed set up.
If Trump had won then the trip would be less important,it was obvious he wasn't interested.
Biden on the other hand has nailed his colours to the mast,this year could have been the most important st Patrick's day visit in a generation.

My own opinion is it won't happen,the optics certainly wouldn't look good.The mob are already pre outraged as pointed out on this thread.There is a seemingly growing cohort (probably mostly online) who are incapable of thinking things through and don't know what pragmatism is.

Its not tough, he should not go.

A jolly for a lad that is job sharing the Taoiseach's office should be so far down the list of activities right now its incredible to think its even on the agenda.

FrancieBrady

They'll be called out even more on this if he goes. 'We are not really all in this together'

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/plan-what-plan-government-has-lost-the-public-by-not-following-their-own-rules-40025130.html

Thelonious Monk

I really hate all this we should be so lucky that they allow us to visit them once a year, oh ye great American masters. Please give us some more money!
The OP may have booked a flight but he's not supposed to be setting an example for anyone.
Joe will visit here either way so I think we're all good with this administration anyway.

Get Real

No issue with him going tbh. People treat it every year as if the Taoiseach is off on a lads weekend.

It's more a getting up early, being ferried to numerous places you may not want to go, making connections and listening to sh1te when you might just want to be at home in Ireland watching Netflix after your day at the Dáil.

By going, physical meetings are much more influential, and it's at such a crucial moment, given Brexit, and Bidens views on the good Friday agreement.

It's also at a time when America has to decide on its future economic ties. Will they be UK or EU based? And if EU based, how can we get a word in for ourselves.

To think someone would pass up on an opportunity to sit down with the president of the USA, build rapport, and sell Ireland as the perfect place with access to the UK and EU, all because of people on twitter begrudging him a flight abroad.

Same people always ask in hindsight "could we have done more, why didn't Ireland sell itself more" etc.

CrazyFather1

Scoondal wrote: »

Mr Martin's ego trip to Washington on St. Patrick's Day will most likely not go ahead.
There would be a massive public backlash against him.
It just shows how out of touch the government is with the mood of Irish people.

Where has this been confirmed?

HBC08

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Its not tough, he should not go.

A jolly for a lad that is job sharing the Taoiseach's office should be so far down the list of activities right now its incredible to think its even on the agenda.

This is a good example of the clueless sh1tetalk I was alluding to.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I really hate all this we should be so lucky that they allow us to visit them once a year, oh ye great American masters. Please give us some more money!

Between this and the dragging every forgien dignatry to the guiness factory for a photo op are most embarassing thing about the country.....a real inferiority complex as a country going on

Doctors room ghost

Allinall wrote: »

Hypocrisy of the highest order.

You couldn’t make it up.fcuk sake

Allinall

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

Its not tough, he should not go.

A jolly for a lad that is job sharing the Taoiseach's office should be so far down the list of activities right now its incredible to think its even on the agenda.

How do you figure it would be a jolly?

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

How deos coronavirus know how to differenitate between essential business and a holiday?

It doesn't, but some risks are justifiable, some are not.

You cannot eliminate risk, you can only manage it. That requires judgement calls on what is essential business and what is not.

We have already seen Philip Nolan and Tony Holohan advise that it is not possible to close the borders and that it will not work.

In that context, a trip by Martin to Washington for St.Patrick's Day is important enough to be worth the risk.

stoneill

Do we not have an Ambassador for this sort of stuff?

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

It doesn't, but some risks are justifiable, some are not.

You cannot eliminate risk, you can only manage it. That requires judgement calls on what is essential business and what is not.

We have already seen Philip Nolan and Tony Holohan advise that it is not possible to close the borders and that it will not work.

In that context, a trip by Martin to Washington for St.Patrick's Day is important enough to be worth the risk.

Should he quarantine for 14 days upon arrival in the US and 14 days upon return to ireland??

Serious double standreds otherwise


What has the annual st patricks day trip,yielded for ireland in the last 8 years? (Other than embarassment of handing over a bowl of shamrocks)

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Should he quarantine for 14 days upon arrival in the US and 14 days upon return to ireland??

Serious double standreds otherwise


What has the annual st patricks day trip,yielded for ireland in the last 8 years?

An awful lot. There has been huge American pressure on the UK over Northern Ireland and Brexit. The visits of successive Taoisigh to Washington has played a huge role in ensuring that support for Ireland.

That is before you look at the FDI effect.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

An awful lot. There has been huge American pressure on the UK over Northern Ireland and Brexit. The visits of successive Taoisigh to Washington has played a huge role in ensuring that support for Ireland.

That is before you look at the FDI effect.

Ultimately the uk buckled under the weight of the eu,im at a loss to see what trump done for ireland in last 4 years,or obama in the 4 before that



What has it actually achieved in measurable terms??

From what i can see its zero anyway.....what US (or any country) company or fdi has cited seeing us handing out bowls of shamrock as the vital link in making decision to move here??



Should martin quaramtine for 14 days upon arrival in and 14 days upon return from the US or is he immune to covid and spreading it?

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

Ultimately the uk buckled under the weight of the eu,im at a loss to see what trump done for ireland in last 4 years,or obama in the 4 before that



What has it actually achieved in measurable terms??

From what i can see its zero anyway.....what US (or any country) company or fdi has cited seeing us handing out bowls of shamrock as the vital link in making decision to move here??



Should martin quaramtine for 14 days upon arrival in and 14 days upon return from the US or is he immune to covid and spreading it?

He shouldn't go
If he is does he should quarantine
But he hasn't even said he is going so it's a mute point isn't it?

McFly85

Deleted User wrote: »

What has it actually achieved in measurable terms??

From what i can see its zero anyway.....what US (or any country) company or fdi has cited seeing us handing out bowls of shamrock as the vital link in making decision to move here??

Should martin quaramtine for 14 days upon arrival in and 14 days upon return from the US or is he immune to covid and spreading it?

You seem to think he literally rocks up to the WH, hands over the shamrocks and heads out on the beer.

The shamrock presentation is just a traditional ceremony. He will have a fair few events and meetings while he's there on economic and political ties for each country. And I think this year, post Brexit it's essential he goes, so that he can promote Ireland as the US gateway to the EU.

And yes, if he goes he should absolutely isolate when he gets back. But this is more pre-outrage. Just assuming he will go and come back and not isolate.

blanch152

McFly85 wrote: »

You seem to think he literally rocks up to the WH, hands over the shamrocks and heads out on the beer.

The shamrock presentation is just a traditional ceremony. He will have a fair few events and meetings while he's there on economic and political ties for each country. And I think this year, post Brexit it's essential he goes, so that he can promote Ireland as the US gateway to the EU.

And yes, if he goes he should absolutely isolate when he gets back. But this is more pre-outrage. Just assuming he will go and come back and not isolate.

There are an awful lot of people who don't understand how government and diplomacy work, how valuable person-to-person contacts are, etc.

And you are right about it being essential that he goes, gets the measure of the new President, gets the measure of the challenge of maintaining FDI in a post-Covid world. It will be a theme of the next decade to ensure that supply chains can be protected and maintained in the face of a threat such as a pandemic. That poses enormous challenges for the economic model of Ireland. We have to be up to speed with the latest thinking of world leaders.

McFly85

McFly85 wrote: »

You seem to think he literally rocks up to the WH, hands over the shamrocks and heads out on the beer.

The shamrock presentation is just a traditional ceremony. He will have a fair few events and meetings while he's there on economic and political ties for each country. And I think this year, post Brexit it's essential he goes, so that he can promote Ireland as the US gateway to the EU.

And yes, if he goes he should absolutely isolate when he gets back. But this is more pre-outrage. Just assuming he will go and come back and not isolate.

if he isloates for 14days either side (as he should imo)...your looking at the martin being a month off for what are at best spurious claims of benefits



Its like when the queen come to ireland,it was sold as great for tourism etc etc,when infact it had neglible benefit to tourism in years after it as they continued same growth trend from previous years

Like i have no issue with state visits,but i feel they are simply lying to justify the reasoning behind em.....

what would you set out as a reasonable,measurable objective to be met by this trip?? I see little point in claiming (lying) its good for x,y and z,if its objectives arent measurable

McFly85

blanch152 wrote: »

There are an awful lot of people who don't understand how government and diplomacy work, how valuable person-to-person contacts are, etc.

And you are right about it being essential that he goes, gets the measure of the new President, gets the measure of the challenge of maintaining FDI in a post-Covid world. It will be a theme of the next decade to ensure that supply chains can be protected and maintained in the face of a threat such as a pandemic. That poses enormous challenges for the economic model of Ireland. We have to be up to speed with the latest thinking of world leaders.

Agreed. And honestly if he doesn't use this opportunity it would probably be March 2022 anyway by the time he could get on Bidens schedule.

If he does go, I think it would be in his interest to publish his itinerary if possible. As we've seen on this thread, there's many who have created a false equivalence between him going to the US and them unable to go on holiday(or going on holiday but still being outraged!)

People only see the photo-op, I think it would be much easier to defend the inevitable questions he gets if he can point to all he's doing there.

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

if he isloates for 14days either side (as he should imo)...your looking at the martin being a month off for what are at best spurious claims of benefits



Its like when the queen come to ireland,it was sold as great for tourism etc etc,when infact it had neglible benefit to tourism in years after it as they continued same growth trend from previous years

Like i have no issue with state visits,but i feel they are simply lying to justify the reasoning behind em.....

what would you set out as a reasonable,measurable objective to be met by this trip?? I see little point in claiming (lying) its good for x,y and z,if its objectives arent measurable

There are thousands of people in effective isolation who are working away full-time. It is not like he is going on holiday or for a trip.

This is business.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

There are thousands of people in effective isolation who are working away full-time. It is not like he is going on holiday or for a trip.

This is business.

So.you agree he should isolate?


What would you feel are reasonable,measurable objectives to be met by this trip?

If these objectives arent met,would you call for cancellation of future trips or someone else lead them?

,or deos failure to meet objectives mean nothing?

CrazyFather1

Deleted User wrote: »

if he isloates for 14days either side (as he should imo)...your looking at the martin being a month off for what are at best spurious claims of benefits



Its like when the queen come to ireland,it was sold as great for tourism etc etc,when infact it had neglible benefit to tourism in years after it as they continued same growth trend from previous years

Like i have no issue with state visits,but i feel they are simply lying to justify the reasoning behind em.....

what would you set out as a reasonable,measurable objective to be met by this trip?? I see little point in claiming (lying) its good for x,y and z,if its objectives arent measurable

If he is in isolation why would he need to take a month off? he would just work away. Thousands of people in Ireland are working remote and they have no issue

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

So.you agree he should isolate?


What would you feel are reasonable,measurable objectives to be met by this trip?

If these objectives arent met,would you call for cancellation of future trips or someone else lead them?

,or deos failure to meet objectives mean nothing?

He should isolate when he gets back, a test when he gets off the plane, a test five days later and if both negative, he should be fine.

As for reasonable, measurable objectives, results of diplomacy can take weeks, months, even years to come to fruition. All you can measure is who he meets.

McFly85

Deleted User wrote: »

if he isloates for 14days either side (as he should imo)...your looking at the martin being a month off for what are at best spurious claims of benefits



Its like when the queen come to ireland,it was sold as great for tourism etc etc,when infact it had neglible benefit to tourism in years after it as they continued same growth trend from previous years

Like i have no issue with state visits,but i feel they are simply lying to justify the reasoning behind em.....

what would you set out as a reasonable,measurable objective to be met by this trip?? I see little point in claiming (lying) its good for x,y and z,if its objectives arent measurable

He wont have to self-isolate before he goes, as long as he has 2 negative results 48 and 24 hours before departure.

From there, there'd be a chartered aircraft with everyone having the same negative tests, and once he gets to the US he would be in a relatively controlled environment. As he wont be there for that long however he will need to self isolate when he gets back. But this doesnt mean he's off - he can do most of his work from home if required?

For me, it's worth it as I said before to portray Ireland as the US gateway to the EU, and to have the US understand the Irish position on Brexit, COVID, trade etc. This isn't a meeting for the Taoiseach to go and make demands about what he wants, but to show Biden how Ireland feels on various issues. When it comes to the time that the US is dealing with the EU or the UK, we'll have at least had our chance to make our feelings known.

political analyst

Scoondal wrote: »

Mr Martin's ego trip to Washington on St. Patrick's Day will most likely not go ahead.
There would be a massive public backlash against him.
It just shows how out of touch the government is with the mood of Irish people.

Are you sure you're not jumping to the wrong conclusion? Has it been stated that he'll be in the US on St. Patrick's Day?